Discussion Deus Ex Machina

[Demonspeed]

I don't see it as a Deus Ex Machina, actually everything which happened in the manga was foreshadowed, excepted Eren's Titan transformation.

 

[kannazuki]

An unlikely event? Sure. Did Isayama not do enough to establish this? Perhaps. But a deus ex machina? Not at all. A DEM is something that writers come up with when they've written themselves into a corner due to poor planning. You might argue he should have included some more direct hinting, but this was always possible. The signs were there, albeit subtle. Subtlety has been a hallmark of this story.

Eren receiving a "power" that could help him protect everyone (as Dr. Yeager put it) was established and being a titan is a great power in and of itself but that wasn't going to help him get back to the basement in Shiganshina by itself; "their memories" were established (convenient perhaps, but established, while also opening up the mystery of who "they" are); herding and then control of titans were also established. We know that Isayama has had this manga's storyline planned out for ages. The "suddenness" of Chapter 50's reveal is actually much like that of chapter 10's. Yes, it's typical in shounen for a power to manifest at the time it's most needed, but the way the story is built and the world the story takes place in, even while full of mysteries, allows for this step to be taken as a logical progression.

 

[epictoads]

An unlikely event? Sure. Did Isayama not do enough to establish this? Perhaps. But a deus ex machina? Not at all. A DEM is something that writers come up with when they've written themselves into a corner due to poor planning. You might argue he should have included some more direct hinting, but this was always possible. The signs were there, albeit subtle. Subtlety has been a hallmark of this story.

Eren receiving a "power" that could help him protect everyone (as Dr. Yeager put it) was established and being a titan is a great power in and of itself but that wasn't going to help him get back to the basement in Shiganshina by itself; "their memories" were established (convenient perhaps, but established, while also opening up the mystery of who "they" are); herding and then control of titans were also established. We know that Isayama has had this manga's storyline planned out for ages. The "suddenness" of Chapter 50's reveal is actually much like that of chapter 10's. Yes, it's typical in shounen for a power to manifest at the time it's most needed, but the way the story is built and the world the story takes place in, even while full of mysteries, allows for this step to be taken as a logical progression.

This ^

However I will say that it may feel like a DEM when it's not. It's the same with Ymir's reveal. She would only have done it if there was no other possible option, so he had to write a seemingly inescapable circumstance for it to make sense. The same applies to Eren conjuring up the strength to unleash the coordinate thing.

 

[Sigma]

It's the same with Ymir's reveal. She would only have done it if there was no other possible option, so he had to write a seemingly inescapable circumstance for it to make sense. The same applies to Eren conjuring up the strength to unleash the coordinate thing.

I disagree. With Yimir she didn't save the day and would have died if the Scouting Legion hadn't shown up when they did. All she really did was buy time. I think the coordinate reveal is much more debatable than that. That being said, those who have said it wasn't a Deus Ex Machina have made some good points.

Stop complaining. This is a brilliant story, you can't have more plot than this even if you tried. It's so anti one dimensional, unlike most shonen, there's no pleasing the people who are against this.

There are people who have opinions that are different than yours and they are free to express them. Don't let it bother you so much that not everyone always agrees with you.

 

[epictoads]

I disagree. With Yimir she didn't save the day and would have died if the Scouting Legion hadn't shown up when they did. All she really did was buy time. I think the coordinate reveal is much more debatable than that. That being said, those who have said it wasn't a Deus Ex Machina have made some good points.

People were saying that Ymir was DEM when it first happened (it ended with Ynir transforming and looking like she would save everyone from an otherwise inescapable situation). I was saying that Ymir would only have done it if she had no choice, hence why the situation had to be like that. Which is sinilar to the Coordinate thing.

 

[quoux]

There are people who have opinions that are different than yours and they are free to express them. Don't let it bother you so much that not everyone always agrees with you.

I'm just arguing x) I choose to argue fiercely. I'll argue my opinion against theirs. I'm just using their words verbatem and putting it in a perspective that should make their logistics seem inferior in an arguement. It's not that I'm bothered whatsoever, just discussing in my own style

People were saying that Ymir was DEM when it first happened (it ended with Ynir transforming and looking like she would save everyone from an otherwise inescapable situation). I was saying that Ymir would only have done it if she had no choice, hence why the situation had to be like that. Which is sinilar to the Coordinate thing.

I agree. I don't know many Dues Ex Machina that end up with the character who experienced it almost dying. It would be a lot stranger, anyway, for Ymir to have revealed her Titan powers in the same way Reiner and bertholdt did.

 

[MiyamotoMusashi]

Maybe i am not knowledgeable enough regarding SnK, so i may be overlooking something, but i am still surprised that so many people did not see Eren´s power coming, especially considering that it basically was introduced during Trost, namely when Eren let out a huge scream and the titans started to attack him instead of the soldiers around. I even remember thinking that Eren might develop the ability to consciously control titans. After the introduction of the other human-titans, i wondered why they never used the same power, so i am surprised that some people actually call this an asspull, considering it actually did the opposite for me, namely validate what i already assumed.

 

[kkck]

I would think the scream at trost is actually completely unrelated to the coordinate. Annie did the exact same thing and as far as we can tell she is not a coordinate at all. The fact of the matter here is that normal titans can identify and target shifters, perhaps more so than they would target humans.

 

[epictoads]

I would think the scream at trost is actually completely unrelated to the coordinate. Annie did the exact same thing and as far as we can tell she is not a coordinate at all. The fact of the matter here is that normal titans can identify and target shifters, perhaps more so than they would target humans.

It wasn't just the scream though, he was shouting "kill more, MORE" internally and they all came to him. Some of which wouldn't have had a direct line of sight either. And when he raised his fists at one of them is stood there screaming instead of going straight to bite him which is weird.

 

[kkck]

If eren had been using the coordinate then wouldn't RAB have felt it? Also, titans can hear as far as we know. Just the scream would have drawn titans which could not necessarily see eren. Think of how loud something as large as titan eren can be. Even then, annie drew many more titans than eren did from even further away.

 

[Sigma]

I'm just arguing x) I choose to argue fiercely. I'll argue my opinion against theirs. I'm just using their words verbatem and putting it in a perspective that should make their logistics seem inferior in an arguement. It's not that I'm bothered whatsoever, just discussing in my own style

Okay

If eren had been using the coordinate then wouldn't RAB have felt it? Also, titans can hear as far as we know. Just the scream would have drawn titans which could not necessarily see eren. Think of how loud something as large as titan eren can be. Even then, annie drew many more titans than eren did from even further away.

Yeah, if he had been using the coordinate RAB would have sensed it since they were in the area. I think the "roar" is different than the coordinate, since as you say, Annie essentially summoned titans to attack her with it as well.

 

[Namonaki]

What if Eren had been "utilizing" the ability before he was even a titan? Consider how persuasive and moving Eren was during the Trost invasion or even when he made his speech arguing with Jean? He pretty much goaded almost all of the 104th into the Survey Corps by just being himself. You had all of the top 10 change their minds about doing Military Police...join Survey Corps. Same thing as when he goaded the Titans to fight him right?

As for his new power? I really believe it was gonna happen sooner or later.

 

[kannazuki]

Welcome, Namonaki!

I do think this reveal makes a lot of sense in hindsight, but although I'll admit I'm excited about the possibility, I'm not sure I'm ready to believe he had that ability activated before now. (I will say though, I would love if it if he had unconsciously activated it in Trost, and it was because he wasn't consciously controlling it that the titan trio may have felt something was up with him, but weren't completely sure. That would definitely tie up some loose ends, if true.)

 

[kkck]

Are you implying eren is using the coordinate to influence humans? That seems a tad weird considering that when eren did use the coordinate none of the humans noticed it. I don't think eren could plausibly use that power to influence or control people to be honest. If that were the case then controlling titans would be the least of the coordinates abilities.