Politics Do you think Wikileaks should be stopped?

[kkck]

Wikileaks has caused some severe controversy over the last few months and recent releases should have a big impact on diplomatic relationships and according to the US government could even put the lives of people in danger. Overall, I don't find the information revealed in itself to be that surprising however knowing for a fact that kind of discussion took place can cause trouble. What do you think? On one hand I do get why this sort of thing should be kept secret however I also see the importance of the information itself so I personally find myself at a loss regarding the topic. Any ideas?

 

[Roflkopt3r]

Wikileaks did some astounding things. Truth should be revealed, and they helped to do so big times with their huge leaks about Iraq and Afghanistan.

Now, the diplomacy thing is a different story though. The world has a right to now what a democracy does in a war, but diplomacy always has secrets, and this one clearly was one-sided against the USA because most countries will have such files, some even worse.

However, it was very interesting to read it (personally I read the German SPIEGEL weekly, which is one of the two or three magazines which always get the wikileaks first). Interestingly the US "insights" on German politicians were a 100% what German journalists and people always knew, so seemingly their inside sources weren't as valuable as they thought in here
The green party does not have an attention-getting leader like Joshka Fisher was... Sigmar Gabriel is a good speaker... CDU and FDP don't suit each other although they're in one gouvernment... Guido Westerwelle is incompetent, arrogant and has a bad humor... Horst Seehofer doesn't know much about foreign policy and is a populist...
Every German who reads a newspaper once in a while knows these things. Congratulations USA for using covered spies and risking the trust of German politicians to get such information xD

Actually, if those files are what the USA know... it's very much the stuff you could read in any newspaper. Israel wants the US to attack Iran? SURPRISE! The USA don't know anything about North Korea either? Welcome aboard. Vladimir Putin has the behaviour and character of an alpha male? Hello Captain Obvious!

Yeah... really... that diplomacy stuff isn't worth that much publicity, it just shows that the US can't keep their stuff secret.
However, Wikileaks should not be stopped. As a platform for anonymous revealing of publicy relevant information, they are incredibly worthy. If anything, those conservatives should stop ranting about it and finally acknowledge that truth shouldn't be kept hidden at all costs.

Many people and magazines already said that Wikileaks essentially is what everyone hoped of the internet - bringing more transparency and free information to the real world. It might be one of the best thing the internet has spawned yet.

 

[lordHokage]

WikiLeaks should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the Law, if they can do it so can someone else. I know the world wants to know the truth but revealing top secret information on the internet only creates additional problems.

 

[Roflkopt3r]

WikiLeaks should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the Law, if they can do it so can someone else. I know the world wants to know the truth but revealing top secret information on the internet only creates additional problems.

Depends... governments and companies like to declare a lot of things to be secret when they're not good for their reputation...

Wikileaks required a lot of skills and organisations to work like it does now. After all they are responsible for securing their informers identities and use very strong encryptions and other technology to do so, as well as trustworthy members. It doesn't happen easily that such an organisation is beeing founded and works as well as Wikileaks.

The western nations goal is a democratic planet, isn't it? Democracy requires knowledge about what the politicians are doing; The politicians don't want the negative information related them to spread, but Wikileaks enables this to happen.
Let's take the most extreme case: The USA had defeated Irak and no information exept for that of the "embedded journalists" had been become public. the US reputation would be much better these days, but without knowing the chaos of Iraq, would the world really be so eager to solve issues like the Iran's course of action without violence? The world might be worse if less information had been available.

So, the question is whether Wikileaks is "too much" information on top of a sufficing amount of information, or if it's still beneficial if their information is beeing spread.
I say yes, it is beneficial. However, I think that "the public" often treats information inadequatly by over- or underrating certain facts severely. However, the one making the informations available - don't forget, Wikileaks publishes totally original files without commentation - isn't responsible of how the public processes them, as long as they don't change it in a way to disinform public.

 

[lordHokage]

Depends... governments and companies like to declare a lot of things to be secret when they're not good for their reputation...

Wikileaks required a lot of skills and organisations to work like it does now. After all they are responsible for securing their informers identities and use very strong encryptions and other technology to do so, as well as trustworthy members. It doesn't happen easily that such an organisation is beeing founded and works as well as Wikileaks.

The western nations goal is a democratic planet, isn't it? Democracy requires knowledge about what the politicians are doing; The politicians don't want the negative information related them to spread, but Wikileaks enables this to happen.
Let's take the most extreme case: The USA had defeated Irak and no information exept for that of the "embedded journalists" had been become public. the US reputation would be much better these days, but without knowing the chaos of Iraq, would the world really be so eager to solve issues like the Iran's course of action without violence? The world might be worse if less information had been available.

So, the question is whether Wikileaks is "too much" information on top of a sufficing amount of information, or if it's still beneficial if their information is beeing spread.
I say yes, it is beneficial. However, I think that "the public" often treats information inadequatly by over- or underrating certain facts severely. However, the one making the informations available - don't forget, Wikileaks publishes totally original files without commentation - isn't responsible of how the public processes them, as long as they don't change it in a way to disinform public.

I completely agree with you but in whose best interest WikiLeaks is looking out for. I say their bottom line. The United States of America doesn't want the world especially the Middle East Region countries to know their dirty little secrets because their actions is in contradiction with USA's version of true democracy. As for WikiLeaks secret documents, I could careless. My concerns are how this USA's embarrassment will continue to impact my personal privacy.

 

[Roflkopt3r]

I completely agree with you but in whose best interest WikiLeaks is looking out for. I say their bottom line. The United States of America doesn't want the world especially the Middle East Region countries to know their dirty little secrets because their actions is in contradiction with USA's version of true democracy. As for WikiLeaks secret documents, I could careless. My concerns are how this USA's embarrassment will continue to impact my personal privacy.

So you fear that it could be of advantage to those in the US who think of even stricter security procedures?
I think it doesn't have an impact on it directly, this developement towards surveillance states is almost everywhere, not just in the U.S.
SPIEGEL had a very nice article from a well reknown German philosopher (I think it was Sloterdijk) who wrote about how the politicians always try to minimize the influence of the people on politics, which of course goes against the ideas of democracy. It's so long though, but maybe I'll translate some parts of it.

 

[lordHokage]

So you fear that it could be of advantage to those in the US who think of even stricter security procedures?I think it doesn't have an impact on it directly, this developement towards surveillance states is almost everywhere, not just in the U.S.
SPIEGEL had a very nice article from a well reknown German philosopher (I think it was Sloterdijk) who wrote about how the politicians always try to minimize the influence of the people on politics, which of course goes against the ideas of democracy. It's so long though, but maybe I'll translate some parts of it.

Unfortunately, the United States Government will take full advantage of any good or bad situation to further their hidden agenda.

 

[Drmke]

In my opinion, this situation is nowhere near as important as the media makes it out to be. Yes, private government information was leaked but none of it was secret policies or wrong doing, just a bunch of useless jabbering that isn't the least bit surprising. All it's really done is hurt some world leaders' feelings.

I'm glad people are willing to go to such extents to reveal what the government tries to hide though from a legal standpoint, the founder out to be persecuted. It's still breaking the law and since nothing was shown that really makes it worth it, it was all kinda for nothing too. Now I don't think he should be tried as a traitor but jail time in inevitable.

Now if we get something like the Pentagon Papers coming out anytime soon, then I'll defend the need of documents like that to be released with my life...WikiLeaks.....is just kinda a joke of the governments of several nations, in other words, boring.

 

[kkck]

relations between countries that already had at least adequate relations won't be affected. The problem is how third parties mentioned in conversations will react. Right now we know for a fact USA diplomats tried to talk SA presidents into isolating hugo chavez (before we just assumed it did or perhaps why USA did not do it) and Israel is very bent on invading Iran (which could also be assumed but now we know it for a fact). How will these third parties react to this now that they have the facts and not just assumptions? Iran perhaps won't change much but Hugo Chavez might go a tad crazier....

 

[Roflkopt3r]

Just to add one thing:
http://wlcentral.org/node/278

It's an article about the accusations that Wikileaks had endangered cooperating Afghan/Taliban/Al-Qaida with their Afghanistan/Iraq releases and comes to the conclusion that nothing hints at this to be true; Much rather Wikileaks said that they took responsibility and care for making sure that no people were endagered by their publishings, and seemingly that's also exactly what they did.

 

[Imperium]

Interesting and very applicable today.

 

[Charlie]

I approve of wiki leaks, thats just opinion. Unfortunately like what JFK said in the link by Imp, we don't know what the government or other bodies do behind doors. I think the public or media should be investigation the government or other bodies / persons doing or conducting improper acts;rather than attack the whistle blower.

Fix the problem, not continue illegal actives or cover ups.

 

[Imperium]

In my opinion, this situation is nowhere near as important as the media makes it out to be. Yes, private government information was leaked but none of it was secret policies or wrong doing, just a bunch of useless jabbering that isn't the least bit surprising. All it's really done is hurt some world leaders' feelings.

I would point one thing. Everything hasn't been released yet, I think I am correct in saying a lot is still left to be released. As for it being "useless jabbering", i would have to strongly disagree. That phase might be applied to what some low level diplomat thinks of Berlusconi's partying, but for a lot of the issues raised they are definitely not useless.

For example, the Gulf countries and Arab leaders in general aggresivness on Iran is something that hasnt been seen by the public anywhere. All anyone knew was the simple political reiterations of "calm and stability" they preached. Then there are the the revelations of the deep connections between Putin administration and the Mob, which was whispered about but never verified. There is also the allegations about Kharzai and his failings as a leader, the corruption of his administration (his VP was caught smuggling 52 million dollars out of the country, he was left alone). Then there are questions being asked about the cables confirming diplomats were assigned to spy on top UN officials around the world.

Then there are cables relating to issues in specific countries, like here in Britain, there were cables about the British Armed Forces performing very poorly in Afghanistan according to the US and Afghani's. Its bringing about a debate on the armed forces future in Afghanistan. Another issue is comments from the head of the Central bank in England calling the current PM lack of experience about the economy. Places like Germany have been discussing leaks relating to party politics and issues like missing funds (50mil) given to the US run trust fund for the Afghan national army.

These stories should be headlines in their own right but such is the sheer amount of topics and issues being raised from the leaks that it may be that some are being skimmed over or altogether ignored. Some of it I agree is useless. We know Sarkozy is authoritarian. Medvedev defers to Putin, Ghadaffi is barking mad, it was stuff already widely known. But the vast majority of the issues are relevant and are important. It is also the tip of the iceberg, there are many other issues raised in the leaks and many more to come.

I approve of wiki leaks, thats just opinion. Unfortunately like what JFK said in the link by Imp, we don't know what the government or other bodies do behind doors. I think the public or media should be investigation the government or other bodies / persons doing or conducting improper acts;rather than attack the whistle blower.

Fix the problem, not continue illegal actives or cover ups.

I agree with you, it should have been released. Investigative Journalism is suffering from a lack of genuine quality and a reluctance to investigate sensitive government issues. In this country there is a thing called an "super injunction" which is a court gagging order on the press about a certain issue. The press can then not even report they are being gagged. From major corporations with secrets to hide to football players have used it. Its actually one of the reasons why the NY times was given access to the leaked cables through the Guardian newspaper. They believed there was a chance they could be gagged from reporting it and so made sure another paper had the story. Investigative Journalism suffers from these kind of issues, and its really a shame.

 

[Roflkopt3r]

Actually I'm currently thinking that Assange is a hero in a way; Well, he is a little odd, but he's taking many risks and persecution for revealing truths. I don't know about the rape accusations (I tend to guess that the likelyhood of them beeing wrong is somewhere around 75%), if they were true he was a tragic person; but still a hero in regards of his work.

It could also be that he just wants the attention and is sick enough to take all the blaim he gets for it, but I cannot know so I just hope it's not this way.

 

[Imperium]

On a side note, can someone explain how you got about prosecuting a Australian citizen who resides in Sweden for treason against the United States? I might be getting my definition of treason wrong. >.>

 

[kkck]

Is it treason against the united states? I don't think it can be called treason unless he ever was from the United states although I could be wrong. He has without of a shred of doubt committed crimes against the USA(hacked classified documents, spy, revealed information....) so I guess the regular channels for international criminals would be used (whatever they may be but in all honesty I have little idea about how that works). I think it depends on whether he gets asylum. If he gets it then he would be pretty much protected in whatever country he is in. If he does not then he would be captured and send to be prosecuted.

 

[Alterno]

Wikileaks has caused some severe controversy over the last few months and recent releases should have a big impact on diplomatic relationships and according to the US government could even put the lives of people in danger. Overall, I don't find the information revealed in itself to be that surprising however knowing for a fact that kind of discussion took place can cause trouble. What do you think? On one hand I do get why this sort of thing should be kept secret however I also see the importance of the information itself so I personally find myself at a loss regarding the topic. Any ideas?

Good Question... but not one have died due Wikileaks releases and that something that have been confirmed. Also wikileaks is doing the job of all world's media by collecting and publishing the information that they "do possess or at least have been offered in the past", and release it without fear.

Wikileaks is doing a great job and as American born citizen I support it. I believe the united states being the most powerful country in the world should be more responsible and more mature.

 

[Roflkopt3r]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101204/ap_on_hi_te/wikileaks
Paypal blocked money donations for Wikileaks because they were involved in "illegal activities". Wikileaks states that this happened on pressure of US government.

The announcement also came as WikiLeaks is struggling to keep its website accessible after service providers such as Amazon dropped contracts, and governments and hackers continued to hound the organization.

It's quite disgracefull that such stuff happens. There the freedom of speech goes.

Wikileaks still has some accessible portals though: http://wikileaks.info/

Wikileaks links a headline which they subtitles: "Reporters without Borders condemns attacks on Wikileaks", but the link only referrs to a 404 page, I wonder what's behind that.
Edit: Maybe it was just a broken link, found the article on the NGO homepage:
http://en.rsf.org/wikileaks-hounded-04-12-2010,38958.html

Remarkably open words:

This is the first time we have seen an attempt at the international community level to censor a website dedicated to the principle of transparency. We are shocked to find countries such as France and the United States suddenly bringing their policies on freedom of expression into line with those of China. We point out that in France and the United States, it is up to the courts, not politicians, to decide whether or not a website should be closed.

 

[Alterno]

Spoiler

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101204/ap_on_hi_te/wikileaks
Paypal blocked money donations for Wikileaks because they were involved in "illegal activities". Wikileaks states that this happened on pressure of US government.



It's quite disgracefull that such stuff happens. There the freedom of speech goes.

Wikileaks still has some accessible portals though: http://wikileaks.info/

Wikileaks links a headline which they subtitles: "Reporters without Borders condemns attacks on Wikileaks", but the link only referrs to a 404 page, I wonder what's behind that.
Edit: Maybe it was just a broken link, found the article on the NGO homepage:
http://en.rsf.org/wikileaks-hounded-04-12-2010,38958.html

Remarkably open words:

Is really sad indeed. But we are getting to see the truth face of these countries, the freedom speech ends when it affects our interest, if it doesn't freedom of speech is just fine.

Bravo Wikileaks keep up the good work.

 

[Alterno]

Congratulations Wikileaks...

I'm so glad that Wikileaks exist/existed, because is showing us the real face of our American leadership, how they act, how they try to clean their hands and how they face others. Wikileaks have been attacked by several hackers with DOS attacks recently so the site is now down, but for sure they will work to get it back on-line asap.

I don't know what's going on with Asssange, if he is rapist or not, but does it matter?, would make the information released by this group false or without credibility?... when the credibility of this information comes from the same source that created it: Governments, military forces, etc.

We knew a bit more about the axis of evil thing and I really sad with the way the US handles diplomacy... looking into personal lives of diplomats, presidents and other authorities?. What a shame.

Thank you wikileaks for opening the eyes to the rest of American society, now is the time to shake up things in the states and only the people can shake up things by selecting better people to office, is time to get gossip, hatred and envy out from the offices that should be representing us, not thinking about who roleplay as batman or robin.

I proudly support Wikileaks!.

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Wikileaks just released a zip file with torrents to all their data... just to make sure the attacks don't get all their work out from the net. Is 3mb "zip" with over 40k documents with torrents files.

I support Wikileaks, proudly.

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Mass mirroring wikileaks.

http://46.59.1.2/mass-mirror.html