Match Doubles instead of knockout singles

[-Ken-]

Mind listing those hints? I'm talking about both the Pirates state he was in and the move he used at the end of the match.

---------- Post added at 11:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 PM ----------

Also, Echizen also have many hints of Samurai image. It's not like if Echizen suddenly use that image as another state or aura now anyone will be fine with assumption that he can use it at will, amiright?

If you're going to ask for proof that Kintarou can use PoP at will, I'll have to ask for evidence of why he can't. Yes, I do not have proof that Kintarou can use PoP outside being in a pinch, but it surely look that ways for many characters as well, Byoudonin included.

What I'm saying is that if you are willing to think the same way that "character x cannot use tech until it is absolutely confirm by the manga" for every characters, then I'm fine with accepting your view that Kintarou can only use PoP in a pinch.

Of course, my viewpoint is still that he can. But I don't want to see someone going like Kintarou can't do PoP while accepting that other characters like Byoudonin and Yukimura CAN do their move when they hardly prove that they can more than Kintarou. That, in my opinion, is completely and utterly bs and biased point of view.

 

[Hardy]

Didn't Byoudouin use the pirate state (which is closer to Kijin, not Asura) in like the middle of the match, not when he was cornered? I dunno, there's clearly a difference between him and Yukimura destroying their opponents with their signature moves and Kintarou getting PoP when he was about to lose (just like Ryoma).

That, in my opinion, is completely and utterly bs and biased point of view.

Tbh, I couldn't care less about Byoudouin and Yukimura. In fact, you're the one defending his favourite character here. Maybe you're the one biased?

---------- Post added at 08:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 AM ----------

If you're going to ask for proof that Kintarou can use PoP at will, I'll have to ask for evidence of why he can't.

This is like a religious debate with people asking for proofs that there's no God.

 

[-Ken-]

Didn't Byoudouin use the pirate state (which is closer to Kijin, not Asura) in like the middle of the match, not when he was cornered? I dunno, there's clearly a difference between him and Yukimura destroying their opponents with their signature moves and Kintarou getting PoP when he was about to lose (just like Ryoma).

It's almost when the first match is decided, which is to say, the deciding point.

tbh, I couldn't care less about Byoudouin and Yukimura. In fact, you're the one defending his favourite character here. Maybe you're the one biased?

Hardly, I'm simply asking for evidence for other characters as well. I'm extremely fair and I use my methods for all characters that I debate. For example, in my opinion, Byoudonin and Yukimura CAN use those move that I mention. Also can Kintarou use PoP. Simply because there's nothing that shows they can't and they have use it in their recent match. Name me someone that I don't use this matrix to measure and I can admit I'm biased, is that good enough? Oh wait, there's no one. I happen to not be biased and do use this matrix for every characters' techniques. Wowza, such a surprised.

On the other hand, if you're not going to use the same matrix that you use for Kintarou for other characters, who's the biased one here? It's pretty clear to me.

 

[Hardy]

It's almost when the first match is decided, which is to say, the deciding point.

You mean set? How is that being cornered btw?

Byoudouin was said to have a power from another dimension chapters before that. Just when he used Pirate, he started talking about ¨his power form another dimension¨, so it's clear that he had unlocked Pirate a long time before that match.

Hardly, I'm simply asking for evidence for other characters as well. I'm extremely fair and I use my methods for all characters that I debate. For example, in my opinion, Byoudonin and Yukimura CAN use those move that I mention. Also can Kintarou use PoP. Simply because there's nothing that shows they can't and they have use it in their recent match. Name me someone that I don't use this matrix to measure and I can admit I'm biased, is that good enough? Oh wait, there's no one. I happen to not be biased and do use this matrix for every characters' techniques. Wowza, such a surprised.

On the other hand, if you're not going to use the same matrix that you use for Kintarou for other characters, who's the biased one here? It's pretty clear to me.

No, you're not being fair, because clearly Byoudouin and Yukimura showed an improvement of their own playstyle without being cornered nor anything like that. Kintarou on the other hand used an Aura that he prolly won't be able to use any more (because we know that Auras are like that in PoT, just like Kirihara didn't use Muga since Kanto), an Aura that is known to be the epitome of Plot Power in PoT.

I'm not negating that Kintarou can clone himself (an improvement of his own playstyle) like he did against Hakamada, for example.

Also, how the hell am I biased if I don't prefer a character over the other?

Wowza.

 

[-Ken-]

You mean set? How is that being cornered btw?

Byoudouin was said to have a power from another dimension chapters before that. Just when he used Pirate, he started talking about ¨his power form another dimension¨, so it's clear that he had unlocked Pirate a long time before that match.

Pirate can be extension usage of power from another dimension just fine. For all we knows, aura shot are power from another dimension and Byoudonin can surely use those at will.

No, you're not being fair, because clearly Byoudouin and Yukimura showed an improvement of their own playstyle without being cornered nor anything like that. Kintarou on the other hand used an Aura that he prolly won't be able to use any more (because we know that Auras are like that in PoT, just like Kirihara didn't use Muga since Kanto), an Aura that is known to be the epitome of Plot Power in PoT.

Kirihara use Muga unconsciously, and never manage to touch upon it again. Kintarou doesn't lose conscious at all.

Kintarou tennis is mention from the start to be having fun and PoP is the very extension of that. It's actually nothing new to him that we hasn't seen before. It is even mention in Pair Puri that he's close to PoP.

The both time Byoudonin use the Pirate state, he was having a close match with his opponents and it is the deciding point that his opponent is about to win the match. Yes, both times, against both Oni and Togukawa. Can you prove that's not the condition he needed to pull it off? Or why is Oni surprised that Byoudonin can use that state?

Is there anything clear that Yukimura move is not just a one time thing? That he doesn't pull it off by fluke? I didn't know that if you take someone sense away enough they will fall asleep. That's totally new to me. How do you know that Yukimura just didn't happen to pull that move off that one time? Is there anything at all that shows he can use it again? I would love to see evidence here.

Also, how the hell am I biased if I don't prefer a character over the other?

Wowza.

You are using a matrix on Kintarou that you refuse to use on other characters? It's pretty clear. You don't need to like a character to be biased.

 

[Hardy]

-Not that it's on topic, but what page states that the Glowing Shot is a power from another dimension? All we know is that, in order to learn that shot, Byoudouin gained a power from another dimension, and that's it. If Ryoma learnt it in some hours, I doubt it's a power from another dimension.

Also, I just said that because just after using Pirate Byoudouin started taunting Tokugawa with his power from another dimension, not before that.

-It's mentioned even in PoT that he's close to TnK, but that doesn't mean anything. He could easily achieve it and never open the door again.

-Is it relevant if he's conscious or not? Have you seen someone using TnK being unconscious btw?

-No, not both times. Against Tokugawa it was a set point, not match point. Oni is surprised because he didn't see it again? What does that prove? That no one in the camp is good enough to make Byoduoin go full power, or that Oni didn't see every match Byoudouin played, so?

-I already said I'm Yukimura. I know how poorly written was that chapter, is that my fault?

-Have you lost your senses before to say something like that, Ken?

You don't need to like a character to be biased.

Not really, the definition of bias is having an opinion just because you prefer something. I don't prefer any character here, so I can't be biased, even if I live in the Matrix or something like that.

 

[Ninomiya]

-It's mentioned even in PoT that he's close to TnK, but that doesn't mean anything. He could easily achieve it and never open the door again.

Agreed.
Let's not forget that it said Akutagawa Jirou was extremely close to TnK too. Is he really going to access TnK and suddenly become amongst the best players in the U-17 Camp?
Considering he has a base stat of 17, which chances are is higher than the base stats that Ryoma had at Nationals so Jirou would still be a freaking beast if he unlocked TnK.

It's the same source saying Inui/Yanagi will get Saiki and Shiraishi will get Hyakku Ren Jitoku. I don't really know how it confirms Kintaro can use TnK at will.

My main issue is that, we've seen Ryoma access TnK for what seems to be the incomplete version against Ryoma, but it was certainly some kind of TnK since Chitose and Fuji's reactions confirm whatever Ryoma did during that one-point-match was borderline TnK.
He then gets amnesia so I guess that's out of the window.

Against Yukimura, our beloved Ryoma is crying like a baby on the floor and then magically accesses TnK and kicks Yuki's ass.
The next time we see Ryoma play, it is an unofficial match and he doesn't have TnK and proceeds to get his ass-kicked.

For Tezuka, he is in a difficult predicament which he eventually overcomes to win 6-4 and just before winning he enters TnK.
The next time we see Tezuka play, it is an unofficial match and he does have TnK and proceeds to give his best bud Fuji a farewell ass-kicking.

It is precisely because of how similar the scenarios are, that it is difficult to confirm Ryoma can use TnK at will.

 

[-Ken-]

So it's a poorly written chapter? So what? There's simply no proof for those characters, and so I expected them to be treated the same way as Kintarou and PoP.

And as I say before and you seem to avoid, Byoudonin condition of using Pirate was the same in both of his match. Can you provide any evidence that this is not the condition that Byoudonin needed to activate it? And I don't think Byoudonin states that he can freely control the power from another dimension, just that he can use it. If you want clear concrete evidence, I need that here. Not just theory.

a particular tendency or inclination, especially one that prevents unprejudiced consideration of a question; prejudice.

Doesn't seem like it need to "prefer" someone. It looks biased to me.

 

[Ninomiya]

So it's a poorly written chapter? So what? There's simply no proof for those characters, and so I expected them to be treated the same way as Kintarou and PoP.

But these characters and their special moves are not revealed to the readers in the same fashion as the example of Ryoma & TnK and Tezuka & TnK like I mentioned.

 

[-Ken-]

But these characters and their special moves are not revealed to the readers in the same fashion as the example of Ryoma & TnK and Tezuka & TnK like I mentioned.

So is there a case of gaining another move like those before? Neither Yukimura or Byoudonin were winning 5-4 45-x like Tezuka. While it is not known for Yukimura, Byoudonin was getting a match point in opponent favors both time.

Like I stated before, my position is that unless something show or stated in canon material that they can't use the move that they have unlock at will, they can.

 

[Hardy]

And as I say before and you seem to avoid, Byoudonin condition of using Pirate was the same in both of his match. Can you provide any evidence that this is not the condition that Byoudonin needed to activate it? And I don't think Byoudonin states that he can freely control the power from another dimension, just that he can use it. If you want clear concrete evidence, I need that here. Not just theory.

It isn't the same condition. One was a match point, the other one a set point.

Doesn't seem like it need to "prefer" someone. It looks biased to me.

Why would I have a prejudice against Kintaraou? I hate cavemen?

 

[-Ken-]

It isn't the same condition. One was a match point, the other one a set point.

So, can you prove that he can use it outside set or match point? Because that is all the manga confirms. I need concrete evidence here already. I've been asking for it since the very beginning and I don't see any evidence at all. If you can't show any, it shows that under the universe rule that Kintarou cannot use PoP at will, a fair bit of other casts cannot use some of their tech either.

And it look like they play 1 set match back then. Who's to say the unlocking requirement is not the match point of the 1st set if you are losing?

Why would I have a prejudice against Kintaraou? I hate cavemen?

Words. Well, why are you using different matrix than the rest of the cast?

 

[Hardy]

Byoudouin used it for the entire 2nd set... I guess?

It's not a different ¨matrix¨, dunno why you're not getting it. I'm like that with almost every character when it comes to TnK. I don't think that Ryoma can do it when he pleases, nor Oni, nor Kintarou (just maybe, Tezuka, and obviously Nanjirou is confirmed). Again, how the hell is that being biased?

I even gave you an example with Kintarou's clones but I guess you didn't read it.

 

[-Ken-]

Echizen use PoP for the whole 6 game as well. So what?

Ah, so it's only Tnk that you are against people using at will and not any other techniques. Is it mention anywhere in the manga that people who use TnK cannot use it at will?

 

[Hardy]

Echizen use PoP for the whole 6 game as well. So what?

...I just replied what you asked, lol.

Is it mention anywhere in the manga that people who use TnK cannot use it at will?

Yeah, they need to have fun. I don't think they can say something like ¨OK, IM GONNA HAVE FUN NOW¨ and go into TnK.

 

[-Ken-]

...I just replied what you asked, lol.

So there is no clear evidence that he can, brillant.

Yeah, they need to have fun. I don't think they can say something like ¨OK, IM GONNA HAVE FUN NOW¨ and go into TnK.

I think Tezuka shows that doing so is possible. So, yes, they can.

 

[Hardy]

So there is no evidence that he can, brillant.

Wat?

I'm not following you :|

I think Tezuka shows that doing so is possible. So, yes, they can.

Yes, he can have fun playing with his best friend, that proves a lot.

 

[-Ken-]

Wat?

I'm not following you :|

So it doesn't look like you can prove that Byoudonin can activated Pirate outside of the condition I mention.

Yes, he can have fun playing with his best friend, that proves a lot.

And Echizen can have fun playing with his enemy who take aways his five sense and Kintarou can have fun playing with enemy who completely obliterated him. That should proves a fair bit then.

 

[Kaoz]

I think Tezuka's trigger was kinda different from the others. The main reason he achieved TnK was that he had completed his goals already. Nanjirou said you forget the feeling you need to enter TnK when starting to compete in clubs and such, and in Tezuka's case he accomplished what he wanted and could then concentrate on tennis itself.

 

[-Ken-]

I don't know how concentrating on tennis itself can be consider to be more fun than other train of thoughts. Each person is different and have fun differently (look at Rikkai way of having fun). And Kintarou and Oni so far doesn't display anything that suggest they forgot the feeling needed to use TnK. Going on this, the only one whom can be consider to be like that is Ryoma, who seem to be pretty bitter from his defeat by Tokugawa.