Economy Economic Crisis 2008

miyi

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The economic crisis in a nutshell, OP-ED

This is the most politically un-correct way to explain the current mess we're in, but it seems to me the only explanation that's saying it how it is.

and you won't hear it from the mainstream media.



September 19, 2008
The Rest of the Meltdown Story
By Neal Boortz

What in the world is going on here?

You've seen the headlines, and you heard of the failures and buyouts. Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch, AIG; all big names and all in big trouble. Then those mysterious quasi-government agencies with names like Freddie and Fannie become wards of the state and you learn that you and your fellow taxpayers are potentially on the hook for tens of billions of dollars. At the end of the week Washington Mutual is looking for a buyer, and you start to wonder about the security of your own bank and your own savings account. Let's change that ad copy to WaMu -- boo hoo.

Somewhere in the back of your mind you understand that this is all tied somehow to bad mortgages. If you start reading a bit further to enhance your understanding you run into terms like Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS) and credit-default swaps, whatever in the world those are. Read further and you find out that a combination of falling home prices and mortgage defaults have put many investment banks and other financial institutions in deep puddin'. All this reading, all this watching the talking heads on TV, and you still don't really know what in the world is going on here.

Fear not. I'm here to help. I know ... I'm just another talk show host; but the fact is that when the stage was being set for the problems we're seeing today I was making most of my money as a real estate lawyer .. closing loans for some of the very institutions that are the tank today. This rather unique combination - closing lawyer and radio talk show host - gave me a front row seat to the politicization of mortgage loans that led us to today's headlines.

OK .. so we all know that a lot of really bad real estate loans were made. The political class would sure love for us to believe that the blame here rests squarely on "greedy" (try to define that word) mortgage brokers and lenders. The truth is that most of the blame rests on political meddling in the credit decisions of these mortgage lenders.

Twenty years ago the buzz-word in the media was "redlining." Newspapers across the country were filled with hard-hitting investigative reports about evil and racist mortgage lenders refusing to make real estate loans to various minorities and to applicants who lived in lower-income neighborhoods. There I was closing these loans in the afternoons, and in the mornings offering a counter-argument on the radio to these absurd "redlining" claims. Frankly, the claims that evil mortgage lenders were systematically denying loans to blacks and other minorities were a lot sexier on the radio than my claims that when credit histories, job stability, loan-to-value ratios and income levels were considered there was no evident racial discrimination.

Political correctness won the day. Washington made it clear to banks and other lending institutions that if they did not do something .. and fast .. to bring more minorities and low-income Americans into the world of home ownership there would be a heavy price to pay. Congress set up processes (Research the Community Redevelopment Act) whereby community activist groups and organizers could effectively stop a bank's efforts to grow if that bank didn't make loans to unqualified borrowers. Enter, stage left, the "subprime" mortgage. These lenders knew that a very high percentage of these loans would turn to garbage - but it was a price that had to be paid if the bank was to expand and grow. We should note that among the community groups browbeating banks into making these bad loans was an outfit called ACORN. There is one certain presidential candidate that did a lot of community organizing for ACORN. I won't mention his name so as to avoid politicizing this column.

These garbage loans to unqualified borrowers were then bundled up and sold. The expectation was that the loans would be eventually paid off when rising home values led some borrowers to access their equity through re-financing and others to sell and move on up the ladder. Oops.

Right now this crisis is being sold to the American public by the left as evidence the failure of the free market and capitalism. Not so. What we're seeing is the inevitable result of political interference in free market economics. Acme bank didn't want to loan money to Joe Homebuyer because Joe had a spotty job history, owed too much money on his credit cards, and wasn't all that good at making payments on time. The politicians told Acme Bank to figure out a way to make that loan, because, after all, Joe is a bona-fide minority-American, or forget about opening that new branch office on the Southside. The loan was made under politicial pressure; the loan, with millions like it, failed - and now we are left to enjoy today's headlines.

So ... why aren't you reading the whole story in the mainstream media? Come on, are you kidding me? Do you really expect the media to blame this mess on deadbeat borrowers and political interference in the free market when it is so easy to put the blame on greedy lenders and evil capitalists? Remember ... there's an election going on. One candidate is decidedly anti-capitalist. Do the math.

Neal Boortz is a nationally syndicated talk show host and co-author of The FairTax Book.
Source: RCP


a commenter at this website, sayanythingblog.com, a person with the username: Bat One, provided some great insight in response to the above Op-Ed:

Bat One said:
Neal is right… of course. But he only tells half the story.

Toward the end of 2000 and into the first part of 2001, the economy was in a downturn. Then, a few months later, the events of 9/11 put the economy into a tailspin. In response, Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan lowered interest rates to help jump-start the economy, and the Bush administration pushed through the first round of tax cut legislation as well. It would take a second round of tax rate cuts, both personal and business to get the economy moving again.

Meanwhile, interest rates were held at all-time lows. And held. And held.

Harry Truman once quipped that he wanted to find a one-armed economist because he had tired of hearing, “… but on the other hand...” from his advisers. But the truth of it is that there are always two sides to economic arguments. Low interest rates are great for those who would borrow. The cost of using other people’s money is low. But for savers, and for lenders, a low return on their investment is a terrible thing. During the Carter presidency, interest rates in the high teens were great for savers, but borrowers were literally squeezed out of the market as the high cost of money struggled to stay ahead of inflation.

The sustained period of low interest rates during the middle of this decade had lenders and investors looking for higher returns. “Alt-A” and sub-prime mortgage backed securities offered a relatively attractive yield with little apparent risk in an environment where the Fed Funds and Discount rates hovered near 1% and conventional mortgages at 4%. And that higher yield was attractive to a global market anxious to participate. The result was a flood of money into the “Alt-A” and sub-prime mortgage market.

Neal is right to castigate groups like ACORN and the liberal Democrats who have used the federal government to bludgeon mortgage lenders into making unwise loans to the “victims” of society’s “unjust” reliance on credit history, job stability, and a demonstrable sense of personal responsibility.

But interest rates were held too low, for too long, which sent investors looking for higher returns on their money. Dr. Greenspan and the Fed share as much responsibility for the current situation as do the Democrats’ social engineers and racial panderers.



Here's another side to this story, just to be fair:

The American Prospect
 
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Shiro-kun

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Re: The economic crisis in a nutshell, OP-ED

If (In meaning of a Worse case Scenario) The United States economy goes to hell, Surely there will be Massive Ripple Affects across the world

Which Is scary in thought, very scary
Hopefully ..I mean Hopefully it doesnt happen.
 

mrcongojack

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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the economic fallout of 2008. What caused it? I have no idea. Most likely it's numerous causes, such as deregulation and the fact that we still haven't fully recovered from the Great Depression.

One thing that has come up as of late is the President's proposal for the bailout. Here is the full text:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/business/21draftcnd.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

One thing that worries me in this proposal is section 8. It reads:

Sec. 8. Review.

Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.
So basically they could do anything they want and get away with it. The executive branch has taken some ridiculous power grabs but seriously? No decision is reviewable?

What I think needs to be done to get are economy is 2 things:
1. Regulation (not fixing prices)
Price fixing is at best a short term fix for a problem and usually leads to more problems (things like...I don't know, overpriced houses, inflation, etc..)
2. A "controlled burn" of Wall Street
Some people are of the immature notion that the economy on a whole will continue to get better and better. It won't. Businesses become stale and die off. It's the circle of life, only with corporations. This bailout is going to keep businesses afloat that should (and in some cases) must drown. This will hurt, obviously. But the pain of a controlled burn would be relatively short and will put our economy on a stronger foundation.

Just a little side note
This is really a side note, not completely related to the meltdown but it is tangentally: does everyone need to get a mortgage? Couldn't you live in a rental property for a few years, save up your cash and then just buy a house flatout?

Figuring the average full time worker could make $20,000 annually after taxes out of college or trade school(heck, you'd make $13 K if you worked part time before taxes), and you lived on $10,000 a year (keeping expenses to a comfortable minimum. Average rent is about $1000/month for a decent apartment, so you'd spend maybe
$500/month if you had a roommate/significant other to split the rent with, get by on $50 a week on food would be $2500 a year, etc...)* With all of this "scrimping" you could have a house in 10 years or sooner (if you properly invest the money, perhaps get a foreclosed house, etc...)

How is this related to the financial crisis? Well, to be blunt I think a lot of people just don't handle money well. Many people go out and but a house within three years of graduating college. WTF? Why does a single person need a house? "Keeping up with the Joneses" has led to people rushing headlong into homeownership.

More importantly, no matter what your mortgage looks like, you'll end up paying a lot more for your house than it is worth.

It's not just houses. People get loans for cars. CARS!!!! Why do you need to have a new car? Used cars are a fraction of the price and run just fine. My 1998 Geo has got 150K miles on it and still runs like a charm. It barely looses any oil. Granted it's a bit of a freak of nature, but you get my point. This consumerism run-amok is what has caused this financial crisis. People taking loans out for things they really have no need to take a loan out for while purchasing things with credit cards has caused debt to become rampant in our country.

Heck, I bet if people started to make sense with their purchases they could afford health care. If they weren't paying off the car loan, the mortgage, the credit card interest, they would probably have more than enough for decent health care.

Here's how I think we should solve the financial crisis: make teaching economics and personal finance mandatory in public schools. For me it wasn't, but my parents and grandparents taught me simple lessons like "don't spend more than you earn" and I am thankful for that lesson. Many of my classmates from high school are driving around in $20K plus cars. How do they afford it? They have a car loan, on top of their tuition. They will graduate from college up to their eyeballs in debt in part because they just had to have a shiny new car.
/rant.


[nami] Merged [/nami]
 
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Shiro-kun

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Banks that loaned out bad loans (really bad loans) are one of the fundamental reasons why this situation is happening, the bad loans that came from the Housing booms when Americans where buying Houses they coudnt even afford zero-down at adjustable rate mortgage (otherwise known as A.R.M, as the first word says Adjustable, meaning they can adjust your monthly mortgage payments and which many people started out as cheaper than usual payment)

So what happen next?
These same people who bought these houses they coudnt afford with the A.R.M could no longer afford there mortgage payments (twice as much as there begening payments), and since they had not invested in these houses with no actual money, Most people foreclosed on there houses soonly after they found out "they can longer afford this".

And after the this...
Subprime Mortage Crisis was formed, Many people began Foreclosing on there homes and Banks started to lose money really really fast, So a few months ago Some Banks filed for Bankruptcy and the chain has going ever since.
 
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miyi

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@mrcongojack:

You support the idea of regulation. I disagree...part of the reason why we're in this mess in the first place is that, we told banks to make unnecessary and "risky" loans to buyers, that made housing affordable.

That created a credit bubble...in other words, home-buyers can afford these very expensive homes. Expect to buy a house, and within a few months, that house will increase in value. What happens for a lot of people, is that they "flip" these houses, and re-sell them in the market, to pocket a few profit for themselves. Why? because house price kept going up, up, up, until it created what experts call, "house bubble", or inflation in house prices.

The fact that government told private institutions, in this case, banks, what to do, should have been utterly avoided. By the same token, home-buyers were involved in all this capitalist greed....we learned how to "flip" houses like geniuses, in fact there are TV programs (on TLC) that instructs us how to do just that. Real Estate became a part-time job for most middle class people.

Personally, I admit my parents got involved in this once lucrative business....although they've never once sold a home. They simply purchased the home(s) to accumulate equity, in hopes to one day re-sell on the market...although that never materialized.


Let's minimize government regulation, let Wall Street on its own, and we should never have to bail out failed institutions. This, at least, you agree with me....let them all fail. That's capitalism. That then eliminates some of the competition, and other companies will survive, probably for the better.

The reason why so many banks started collapsing, and just recently, Washington Mutual fell (the largest bank failure in American History), and was bought by JP Morgan Chase.....the reason for these bank collapses is that most of them all heavily invested in the mortgage business. Now that the availability of home-buyers shrunk, these banks' steady flow of return on their investments suddenly stopped.....hence this chaos.


For the government to bail out these failed institutions would be the equivalent of the government becoming a huge corporation, and as you've said in another thread, would be a step closer to communism, which is true.

Why not let the market and companies duke it all out, as naturally they would. Some companies are already buying out their competitors (i.e. JP Morgan Chase with WaMu), and although this is a "monopoly", that's how it ought to work.

It's either that, or allow the Federal Government to become the monopoly, and when you mix politics and money, it means corruption. I'd prefer the former.


The only time I support regulation is when the government acts to prevent "unfair" business practices. We need to regulate cases when corruption in companies are happening.....Teddy Roosevelt became famous for "trust busting"....he allowed businesses to flourish while they can, but when they got too big and corruption occured, he wasn't afraid to employ his "big stick" (lol....actually, he employed this method in foreign policy matters).

But it isn't the job of the government to impose their will on private companies on business matters...as Senator Harry Reid is now constantly babbling about when accusing Senator McCain for "injecting politics" into this supposed bailout agreement, so too, should the government not inject politics into Wall Street.





On another note, here's an interesting article, and it's so true..

By All Means, Punish Wall Street, But Don't Forget Own Profligacy

By VICTOR DAVIS HANSON | Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 4:30 PM PT

When the mortgage bubble burst, Americans were "shocked" at how many Wall Street buccaneers had been gambling in a vast pyramid scheme with someone else's money.

Paper fortunes were made buying and selling questionable subprime mortgages on the silly assumption that such gargantuan inside profiting would always expand — even as the number of homebuyers able to buy overpriced properties was shrinking.

Now, after the recent crash in subprime mortgages and the stocks of several investment firms, a trillion dollars in "assets" could be nearly worthless. An already indebted American government must restore some sort of trust to banks and markets by either printing money or borrowing hundreds of billions of dollars from foreign creditors to guarantee loans.

We Did This

All that remains of this Ponzi scheme is the election-year blame game. Republicans charge that important financial firewalls were dismantled by the Clinton administration while insider liberal senators got shady campaign donations in exchange for aiding Wall Street. Democrats counter that the laissez-faire capitalism espoused by Republicans for two decades encouraged financial piracy while tax policy favored the rich speculator over the middle-class wage earner.

But no one dares ask what really drove the wheeler-dealer portfolio managers. Who re-elected these shady politicians of both parties? Who fostered the cash-in culture in which both Wall Street profit mongering and Washington lobbying are nourished and thrive?

We citizens did — red-state conservatives, blue-state liberals, Republicans and Democrats alike. We may be victims of Wall Street greed — but not quite innocent victims.

Let me explain. The profiteering was not just the result of a few thousand scoundrels on Wall Street or in Washington, as greedy and as bonus-hungry as many of them no doubt were. Look at the housing market as a sort of musical chairs in which everyone profited as long as he grabbed a seat when the music stopped.

Then those left standing — with high-priced loans and negative equity when the crash came — defaulted and stuck taxpayers with debt in the billions of dollars. But until then, most owners who had sold homes cashed out beyond their wildest dreams.

Thousands of dollars in past profits are still in sellers' bank accounts or were spent on their own consumption. If the shaky buyer at the bottom of the pyramid should not have borrowed to buy an overpriced house, then the luckier seller higher up hardly worried that the cash-strapped fool was paying him way too much with unsecured, borrowed money.

We created the cultural climate for this shared madness. Television shows advised how to "flip" a house after putting in cosmetic improvements. Real estate seminars and popular videos convinced us that homes were not places to live in and raise a family but rather no different from piles of chips on a Vegas table.

We created the phony populist creed that everyone deserved to own a house. So lawmakers got the message to relax lending standards in service to "fairness." But Americans forgot that historically nearly 4 in 10 of us aren't ever ready, or able, to sacrifice for a down payment, monthly mortgage bills, home maintenance and yearly taxes — and so should stick to renting.

The problem went way beyond real-estate fantasies. Five-percent interest as a return on our money was once considered pretty good — especially inasmuch as a factory or farm on the other side of the banking equation could not really stay in business paying 10% in interest to banks for its necessary borrowing.

Punish The Crooks

But soon retirement-account holders and institutional investors began to expect as a given 7%, 10% — and even 20% — "return" on their portfolios. Wage earners and professionals alike compared the glossy brochures that appeared in the mail, and then jumped to this 401(k) investment or that mutual fund to "maximize" retirement portfolio earnings.

How Wall Street managers, eager for more multimillion-dollar bonuses, planned to deliver on their promised sky-high returns, no one asked. But it often proved to be more by hook-and-crook shell games than by financing new productive businesses or by extending credit for the production of real goods in vital plants.

In a larger sense, this zeal for quick profits and easy money reflected an oblivious too-good-to-be-true culture in which we drove larger cars but demanded more oil drilling from everyone except ourselves. We expected both expanded government entitlements and lower taxes.

Our government borrowed ever more money from foreign creditors, because it was a collective reflection of our own profligate financial habits. Of course we should reform Wall Street and Washington — and punish severely the crooks in both places. But Americans should remember that Frankenstein was not the name of the monster but of its creator.

© 2008 TRIBUNE MEDIA SERVICES, INC.
source: IBDeditorials
 

Lelo

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Wow, theres a thread on this. Well I recently invested in the stock market for the first time and I almost got fucked. So many big Banks and other companies have gone bankrupt or have got seized by the gov. I cashed out just at the right time. Some of the stocks I invested in were Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac, they went down to 25cents and then back up to 3 dollars, thats ridiculous, I wish I bought it at like 50 cents, then it went back down, but I cashed out in time and I was even. I am planning to reinvest in them but Im waiting on this bailout, hopefully it goes threw. I also own a Granite and Wood store, I remodel houses and business has been slow. Im praying we dont go into a depression, that would not be good


ahhhhh dammit, it's a no go on the 750 billion dollar bailout. We needed like 218 votes and we got 207, it was that close. Now we must wait as they negotiate the next plan for a bailout.
 
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Shiro-kun

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Stocks fell by 75% or give it like that, as explained here and here,(fox.is unavailable right now ) after the bail out failed in the house of representatives

Things are looking real bad right now, for stocks to crash like that! its almost unbelievable....
 

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We have nothing to worry though, the USA will do something and fix it. But the real question is when and how will they fix it?
 

thsv

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@mrcongojack:

You support the idea of regulation. I disagree...part of the reason why we're in this mess in the first place is that, we told banks to make unnecessary and "risky" loans to buyers, that made housing affordable.

That created a credit bubble...in other words, home-buyers can afford these very expensive homes. Expect to buy a house, and within a few months, that house will increase in value. What happens for a lot of people, is that they "flip" these houses, and re-sell them in the market, to pocket a few profit for themselves. Why? because house price kept going up, up, up, until it created what experts call, "house bubble", or inflation in house prices.

The fact that government told private institutions, in this case, banks, what to do, should have been utterly avoided. By the same token, home-buyers were involved in all this capitalist greed....we learned how to "flip" houses like geniuses, in fact there are TV programs (on TLC) that instructs us how to do just that. Real Estate became a part-time job for most middle class people.

Personally, I admit my parents got involved in this once lucrative business....although they've never once sold a home. They simply purchased the home(s) to accumulate equity, in hopes to one day re-sell on the market...although that never materialized.


Let's minimize government regulation, let Wall Street on its own, and we should never have to bail out failed institutions. This, at least, you agree with me....let them all fail. That's capitalism. That then eliminates some of the competition, and other companies will survive, probably for the better.

The reason why so many banks started collapsing, and just recently, Washington Mutual fell (the largest bank failure in American History), and was bought by JP Morgan Chase.....the reason for these bank collapses is that most of them all heavily invested in the mortgage business. Now that the availability of home-buyers shrunk, these banks' steady flow of return on their investments suddenly stopped.....hence this chaos.


For the government to bail out these failed institutions would be the equivalent of the government becoming a huge corporation, and as you've said in another thread, would be a step closer to communism, which is true.

Why not let the market and companies duke it all out, as naturally they would. Some companies are already buying out their competitors (i.e. JP Morgan Chase with WaMu), and although this is a "monopoly", that's how it ought to work.

It's either that, or allow the Federal Government to become the monopoly, and when you mix politics and money, it means corruption. I'd prefer the former.


The only time I support regulation is when the government acts to prevent "unfair" business practices. We need to regulate cases when corruption in companies are happening.....Teddy Roosevelt became famous for "trust busting"....he allowed businesses to flourish while they can, but when they got too big and corruption occured, he wasn't afraid to employ his "big stick" (lol....actually, he employed this method in foreign policy matters).

But it isn't the job of the government to impose their will on private companies on business matters...as Senator Harry Reid is now constantly babbling about when accusing Senator McCain for "injecting politics" into this supposed bailout agreement, so too, should the government not inject politics into Wall Street.





On another note, here's an interesting article, and it's so true..



source: IBDeditorials
Come on. I'm not so much against bailing banks out. I just don't think they should be able to get that much of the tax payers money without strings. Otherwise they'll never learn. It was bad enough they lent to those who couldn't afford to pay back the money(and its not just American banks. The Europeans were just as bad). It was their attempts to move the debts on that were their undoing. They could have asked for higher deposits. I was told by my bank I'd need to show 5 years of constant saving to even get considered for a mortgage. They reckoned £25,000 would be my best bet. In London that wouldn't even be 10% on 90% of freehold properties.

At least in the US the House is actually looking out for the tax payer. The UK government has nationalized the 2 biggest failures and is about to bail out our banks without even recalling Parliament (The Bank of England, our equivalent to the Federal Reserve was given independence about 10 years ago so they can do as they see fit). So that's any chance of a rebate gone next year.
 

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YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, they passed it this time around. The 700 billion dollar bailout plan was passed, thank GOD. Thats just the first step though, hopefully everything starts to change, and in a good way
 

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You shouldn't be celebrating. This is extremely bad news though it may sound like it's positive news. I've been reading up and I chance upon a very insightful article titled, "Economic Depression: Their Cause and Cure," written by Murray N. Rothbard which was originally published in 1969. It was definitely a good read.

With this bail-out, the financial institutions are just going to go about business again and start loaning out money again. The American people who are not poor enough nor smart enough will accept these new loans and try to go about their daily lives. I agree with some sentiments out there that this might inflate the US dollar. My biggest concern is that would wages mirror the inflation and rise to meet it? If not, then truly the prices of commodity and goods will definitely increase.

Also, what should have been done was what Abraham Lincoln did during the 1800's. Told the Federal Bank off and print our own money. If you read the article, the prescribed cure was to let a recession. That would've helped solve the problem instead of prolonging the financial crisis which will perhaps be that much more severe.

Conclusion: The United States of America or rather, the American citizens will get poorer and poorer.

The bright side: the bail out has bought the America citizens a bit more time. I recommend that they, Americans, and other people living in other countries whose financial systems are tied to the U.S. financial markets prepare for the worse because you cannot prevent the inevitable and it is inevitable. Shit will hit the fan sooner or later.

In the article I linked above is correct, I hope that the government does not repeat what the Hoover and Roosevelt did during the depression.
 

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Re: The economic crisis in a nutshell, OP-ED

A person made an insightful comment on a blog or website which I can't recall. He said that the crisis that we are in was actually tied into the Clinton's Administration and not the Bush's Administration. Though I also agree with Bat One that the low interest rates where to blame also in that they set off people looking for a way to make some great investments which led to a housing bubble.

Though if someone were to blame, it'll be the Feds, the institutions and people who wanted to make some money.

This is reminiscent of what took place before the Great Depression of the late 30's and early 40's.
 

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-_- There go the Dems again with their typical philosophy of Short Term plans with no Long Term thinking. If this fucks up my career future...
 

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You shouldn't be celebrating. This is extremely bad news though it may sound like it's positive news. I've been reading up and I chance upon a very insightful article titled, "Economic Depression: Their Cause and Cure," written by Murray N. Rothbard which was originally published in 1969. It was definitely a good read.

With this bail-out, the financial institutions are just going to go about business again and start loaning out money again. The American people who are not poor enough nor smart enough will accept these new loans and try to go about their daily lives. I agree with some sentiments out there that this might inflate the US dollar. My biggest concern is that would wages mirror the inflation and rise to meet it? If not, then truly the prices of commodity and goods will definitely increase.

Also, what should have been done was what Abraham Lincoln did during the 1800's. Told the Federal Bank off and print our own money. If you read the article, the prescribed cure was to let a recession. That would've helped solve the problem instead of prolonging the financial crisis which will perhaps be that much more severe.

Conclusion: The United States of America or rather, the American citizens will get poorer and poorer.

The bright side: the bail out has bought the America citizens a bit more time. I recommend that they, Americans, and other people living in other countries whose financial systems are tied to the U.S. financial markets prepare for the worse because you cannot prevent the inevitable and it is inevitable. Shit will hit the fan sooner or later.

In the article I linked above is correct, I hope that the government does not repeat what the Hoover and Roosevelt did during the depression.
whoa, that's a long article...I'll read the rest of it when I get home later tonight.


I remember that the only real reason why FDR managed to overcome the Great Depression, wasn't really so much because of his "New Deal" and welfare-state policies, although that might have alleviated some of the pains, but in truth, it was because of WWII.

The fact that Europe was devastated after that war, and we served to supply Europe with everything from food to arms, during war time, and during reconstruction, America maxed out on employment, and money flowed to the economy.

FDR gets so much credit for his New Deal, but in truth, it was WWII that really helped America out of the mess, and all of it was accidental.

I agree that what we need to do is allow for a recession......reform our credit-run-amok system.

Also, the American consumers should not be afraid to spend, because that's what ultimately drives businesses and the economy....without consumers, there's no corporations (ahh, the irony....we hate corporations so much, but the reality is, we need them just as they need consumers).

The bailout passed, with profound revisions.....I don't know if that's necessarily a good or bad thing...I heard there's so many trivial stuff added onto the bill that had nothing to do with the economy.

meh, I think we'll be alright....it will suck for the poorest population. They'll be the hardest hit, as they lack cushion....no savings to absorb the inevitable lay-off.



As for European governments dealing with this crisis.....geez....hopefully they figure out a way to protect the taxpayers, soon. I've heard that UK's PM Gordon Brown is proposing a massive bailout, roughly 200 billion...and supposedly the EU will hold an economic summit soon.

good luck. The whole world shares the burden with this economic crisis, not just USA.
 
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segua

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My question is why are they dumping money into the financial institutions and not helping out the people? As some point out, it's a kleptocracy.
 

thsv

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As for European governments dealing with this crisis.....geez....hopefully they figure out a way to protect the taxpayers, soon. I've heard that UK's PM Gordon Brown is proposing a massive bailout, roughly 200 billion...and supposedly the EU will hold an economic summit soon.

good luck. The whole world shares the burden with this economic crisis, not just USA.
Got to love the EU. Whilst the UK are guaranteeing £50,000 first the Irish, then over this weekend the Germans are guaranteeing 100% of all savings.

Have a guess where money's been pouring into since Wednesday.

So much for a unified response
 

Lelo

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FUUUUCK, whats going on. On friday the Dow dropped like 400 and today it drop as much as 800. It's ok though, we need to take it one step at a time.
 

Shiro-kun

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Well the Whole Entire World is freaking out, and both the United States and the United Kingdom are in the deep end, and everything dropped again today dropping nearly 800 even after the "rescue plan" (bail out) pass a few days prior ( which should gave more confident to the people) , but today wasn't all bad news, after it dropped to 800 it rose up 500 making the closing at losses of 300 although it is still bad, its better than it was.
 

thsv

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[sarcasm]It gets better and better[/sarcasm]
Seems our local authorities had money in Icelandic banks. In the course of 12 hours it went from 20 councils with £100 million to 100 with £900 million. And there's another 20 UK charities involved.
 

weixiaobao

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well, we can expect the suicide rate to go up..
Oh, it already went up ...
many people who are losing home decided to kill their families and then kill themselves.
I hope the next 4 years will be better.
 
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