Hangout Edens Zero Hangout Thread

[NatsuxShiki]

I feel dismiss people the character's development in Fairy Tail and just focus on the fanservice they give out like Lucy. People say she's all fanservice and useless when, if it wasnt for her, the series wouldnt be the same as it is today. People always just look at the bad, i get it and understand, but at least please acknowledge some of the things the characters have done and how much they grown. But that's just me. Everyone has a different views and i understand. (Though i wish Hiro Mashima would lay off the fanservice a little bit)

Though i feel people are gonna do the exact same thing with possibly Rebecca in Edens Zero by the middle of it. Give her what i call the "Lucy treament"

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

That's a secret.

Also 23 dislikes on my video doing something nice to the EZ community xD

Can you tell me about the part that Shiki sees Rebecca naked?
I hate ecchi/fanservice. I just want to know how Mashima did it. Does she appear full naked? o.o

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 15, 2018 ---

I feel dismiss people the character's development in Fairy Tail and just focus on the fanservice they give out like Lucy. People say she's all fanservice and useless when, if it wasnt for her, the series wouldnt be the same as it is today. People always just look at the bad, i get it and understand, but at least please acknowledge some of the things the characters have done and how much they grown. But that's just me. Everyone has a different views and i understand. (Though i wish Hiro Mashima would lay off the fanservice a little bit)

Though i feel people are gonna do the exact same thing with possibly Rebecca in Edens Zero by the middle of it. Give her what i call the "Lucy treament"

The point is: the autor treats his female like a peace of meat. He just cannot show a good woman with a good fight without show her boobs, her ass, her curves in sexy magazine poses every time that the women get spotlight and Lucy is the character that almost suffer it.
I hate ecchi because I'm pro feminist and I know that I woman doesn't need to be sould as a ''piece of meat'' to be a good character or person. The ecchi/fanservice in FT series was too much, it was really annoying, the angles to show the woman bodies was forced and grotesque and it often ruined the girls fight.

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

But I also love Lucy. She is one of my favorite female characters of all and it's sad to know that she would be more recognized as good female character if the autor wasn't such machism in draw her. It's complicated because Mashima is able to create good women, strong and powerfull women but he is the ''main popular autor'' that most sexualize her girls. Even Oda from One Piece fanservicing Nami is nothing compare to him.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 15, 2018 ---

I wish SGSami's crew would leave my YT channel alone.


Nope. It's not that bad.

Thank you <3

 

[azhasnts]

The point is: the autor treats his female like a peace of meat. He just cannot show a good woman with a good fight without show her boobs, her ass, her curves in sexy magazine poses every time that the women get spotlight and Lucy is the character that almost suffer it.
I hate ecchi because I'm pro feminist and I know that I woman doesn't need to be sould as a ''piece of meat'' to be a good character or person. The ecchi/fanservice in FT series was too much, it was really annoying, the angles to show the woman bodies was forced and grotesque and it often ruined the girls fight.

Women in FT are very strong, but the fanservice ruin many scenes, has scenes that are supposed to be sad, etc, and the fanservice completely strip the importance of the scene

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 15, 2018 ---

But I also love Lucy. She is one of my favorite female characters of all and it's sad to know that she would be more recognized as good female character if the autor wasn't such machism in draw her. It's complicated because Mashima is able to create good women, strong and powerfull women but he is the ''main popular autor'' that most sexualize her girls. Even Oda from One Piece fanservicing Nami is nothing compare to him.

Yeah, but at least the bodies of the girls in FT (most of the time) does not give me an agony just to see.
it's a pity, Lucy is amazing

 

[Rax]

Can you tell me about the part that Shiki sees Rebecca naked?
I hate ecchi/fanservice. I just want to know how Mashima did it. Does she appear full naked? o.o

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 15, 2018 ---

The point is: the autor treats his female like a peace of meat. He just cannot show a good woman with a good fight without show her boobs, her ass, her curves in sexy magazine poses every time that the women get spotlight and Lucy is the character that almost suffer it.
I hate ecchi because I'm pro feminist and I know that I woman doesn't need to be sould as a ''piece of meat'' to be a good character or person. The ecchi/fanservice in FT series was too much, it was really annoying, the angles to show the woman bodies was forced and grotesque and it often ruined the girls fight.

Lolwhat?

Was Natsu and Gray not half naked (Gray sometimes fully naked) throughout the entire series?

You act like the girls didn't get their fair share of fan service too. Lol.

Complain about when it happens to women but ignore the dudes.

 

[Zekiel]

But I also love Lucy. She is one of my favorite female characters of all and it's sad to know that she would be more recognized as good female character if the autor wasn't such machism in draw her. It's complicated because Mashima is able to create good women, strong and powerfull women but he is the ''main popular autor'' that most sexualize her girls. Even Oda from One Piece fanservicing Nami is nothing compare to him.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 15, 2018 ---

Thank you <3

.......just hope it's not a trend.
Because I can say Rebecca has more potential than lucy because of her personality imo. Some probably think differently

It also seems she can lead the story just as well as shiki being equal in importance and relevance without one overshadowed by the other.

But if she is over-sexualized like lucy then she'll most likely be overshadowed by shiki and I don't want that.

So i agree overall

 

[Rax]

.......just hope it's not a trend.
Because I can say Rebecca has more potential than lucy because of her personality imo.

It also seems she can lead the story just as well as shiki being equal in importance and relevance without one overshadowed by the other.

But if she is over-sexualized like lucy then she'll mist likely be overshadowed by shiki and I don't want that.

Lucy ended the series extremely competent.

What are you talking about? Gray was sexualized more than Lucy was.

 

[NatsuxShiki]

But I also love Lucy. She is one of my favorite female characters of all and it's sad to know that she would be more recognized as good female character if the autor wasn't such machism in draw her. It's complicated because Mashima is able to create good women, strong and powerfull women but he is the ''main popular autor'' that most sexualize her girls. Even Oda from One Piece fanservicing Nami is nothing compare to him.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 15, 2018 ---

Thank you <3

DEFINITELY get what you mean and completely agree. I love Lucy alot. I wish Hiro Mashima didnt write his women as just like that and all. Im fine with fanservice, but what i feel he does is that he puts too much fanservice in his women, especislly Lucy, and it gets to the point where people tend to overshadow their achievements like Lucy. I know for a fact Hiro Mashima can do good women without all the fanservice. He really... just puts Lucy behind fanservice most of the time. I really just dont want Rebecca to suffer from that. She has much potential

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 15, 2018 ---

Not saying Lucy is a bad character--- I LOVE LUCY SO MUCH. Literally one of my favorite female characters of all time. I really think she could've been better written and not mostly hidden behind fanservice. It's a shame a lot of people jusr see her as nothing but fanservice.

 

[Zekiel]

Lucy ended the series extremely competent.

What are you talking about? Gray was sexualized more than Lucy was.

You keep mentioning men but I'm talking about the MC dynamic.

She was competent by the end sure but overall natsu was takin more seriously then she was because it was a running gag emphasized by Mashima.

It didn't matter if it was during serious moments or comical moments it came up at awkward times to annoy everyone.

That's what I'm getting at.

With gray it wasnt emphasized enough for people to care alot about it .

 

[azhasnts]

Lucy ended the series extremely competent.

What are you talking about? Gray was sexualized more than Lucy was.

The thing is that fanservice does not get in the way people see Gray, they both get a lot of fan service and are very strong, but it's Lucy's character that suffers from it. I mean no one criticizes Gray's fanservice as they criticize Lucy's

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

Lolwhat?

Was Natsu and Gray not half naked (Gray sometimes fully naked) throughout the entire series?

You act like the girls didn't get their fair share of fan service too. Lol.

Complain about when it happens to women but ignore the dudes.

Man shirtless basically is the same as woman with bikini or bra (in real world, because is allowed to man be shirtless around in a lot of places). In FT basically all the women use bra or a very huge clivage, but the men don't stay without a shirt all the time. LMAO And the women clothes are all cut off in the ''hot parties'', it's not the same with man. Stop comparing, it's a terrible argument.
When we have angles focused on Natsu penis, on his butt, when he falls in forced ways to be sexualized, when the objetification of man be a rule in all the medias (like movies, series, comics) you can say that men are sexualized and objetificed as women.
Even Gray, the most sexualized man, isn't even close as even Mirajane Strauss in ecchi terms. The autor don't change the focus of Gray's battles to show his ass.

 

[Gabo]

DEFINITELY get what you mean and completely agree. I love Lucy alot. I wish Hiro Mashima didnt write his women as just like that and all. Im fine with fanservice, but what i feel he does is that he puts too much fanservice in his women, especislly Lucy, and it gets to the point where people tend to overshadow their achievements like Lucy. I know for a fact Hiro Mashima can do good women without all the fanservice. He really... just puts Lucy behind fanservice most of the time. I really just dont want Rebecca to suffer from that. She has much potential

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 15, 2018 ---

Not saying Lucy is a bad character--- I LOVE LUCY SO MUCH. Literally one of my favorite female characters of all time. I really think she could've been better written and not mostly hidden behind fanservice. It's a shame a lot of people jusr see her as nothing but fanservice.

The fact of having something of Ecchi does not make of a character a bad character or something chauvinist, is more, I believe that for the Japanese, Korean, Chinese, French among others what more interests to them is the Character.

Many of those who complain about Ecchi in FT are the same ones who speak wonders of Highschool DXD, Yuuragi no Yuna or Shinmai Maou no Testament, and not at all critical to those series, which are good despite their huge amount of Ecchi, the problem is that there are people who only seek the bad and the worst, is that they seek to influence the criteria of others.
I saw that they mentioned OP, but do they really think it's lower? It is not, it also has in large quantities and more considering the sizes of the bodies.

In itself even in the FT Magazine came a small count of the Nude and in itself, Erza does more Fanservice than Lucy, but do not complain by force, Gray has been naked more times than Lucy, but there is no complaint because he is a man , come on, the fact that a character has these scenes does not make it bad, because if that was the criterion, then no one would see Manga Shounen Magazine and Kodansha, who use that resource a lot as part of their way of working, for me what is important is the character, the Ecchi is just an extra that does not affect, it is more mature to accept a resource like that, than to judge something just for that resource.

If Rebecca has moments Ecchi .. Would that affect her? I do not think so, if I do not love Naru from Love Hina, Lucy, Ranma, Bulma or Stella Vermillion. Why would it affect her? I think that based on that would be to underestimate the character.

 

[Moeru Nakimushi]

The fact of having something of Ecchi does not make of a character a bad character or something chauvinist, is more, I believe that for the Japanese, Korean, Chinese, French among others what more interests to them is the Character.

Many of those who complain about Ecchi in FT are the same ones who speak wonders of Highschool DXD, Yuuragi no Yuna or Shinmai Maou no Testament, and not at all critical to those series, which are good despite their huge amount of Ecchi, the problem is that there are people who only seek the bad and the worst, is that they seek to influence the criteria of others.
I saw that they mentioned OP, but do they really think it's lower? It is not, it also has in large quantities and more considering the sizes of the bodies.

In itself even in the FT Magazine came a small count of the Nude and in itself, Erza does more Fanservice than Lucy, but do not complain by force, Gray has been naked more times than Lucy, but there is no complaint because he is a man , come on, the fact that a character has these scenes does not make it bad, because if that was the criterion, then no one would see Manga Shounen Magazine and Kodansha, who use that resource a lot as part of their way of working, for me what is important is the character, the Ecchi is just an extra that does not affect, it is more mature to accept a resource like that, than to judge something just for that resource.

If Rebecca has moments Ecchi .. Would that affect her? I do not think so, if I do not love Naru from Love Hina, Lucy, Ranma, Bulma or Stella Vermillion. Why would it affect her? I think that based on that would be to underestimate the character.

Lets be honest if tsunade had small tits would we really watch naruto? Every 7 year old dreamed of seeing her topless and the internet gave us it.

 

[Gabo]

Man shirtless basically is the same as woman with bikini or bra. In FT basically all the women use bra or a very huge clivage and their clothes are all cut off in the ''hot parties'', it's not the same with man. Stop comparing, it's a terrible argument.
When we have angles focused on Natsu penis, on his butt, when he falls in forced ways to be sexualized, when the objetification of man is a rule in all the medias (like movies, series, comics) you can say that men are sexualized and objetificed as women.
Even Gray, the most sexualized man, isn't even close as even Mirajane Strauss in ecchi terms. The autor don't change the focus of Gray battle to show his ass.

Sexualization of men is based on different angles, emphasis is placed on their physique, be strong and round buttocks, faces with a certain degree of attractiveness, if we rely on what women see attractive in a man, then you will notice that really Their sexualization is as or greater than that of women.

Only that unlike women, groups tend to care less because men tend to be less taken into account when validating the concept of sexualization.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 15, 2018 ---

Lets be honest if tsunade had small tits would we really watch naruto? Every 7 year old dreamed of seeing her topless and the internet gave us it.

If it were flat I do not think it mattered, there are many flat-chested characters and that does not take away the interest.


The true machism is to consider that a character is bad for being Sexy or to use a comical resource for his plot.

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

Sexualization of men is based on different angles, emphasis is placed on their physique, be strong and round buttocks, faces with a certain degree of attractiveness, if we rely on what women see attractive in a man, then you will notice that really Their sexualization is as or greater than that of women.

Only that unlike women, groups tend to care less because men tend to be less taken into account when validating the concept of sexualization.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 15, 2018 ---

If it were flat I do not think it mattered, there are many flat-chested characters and that does not take away the interest.


The true machism is to consider that a character is bad for being Sexy or to use a comical resource for his plot.

Your ideia actually is quite of machist.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 15, 2018 ---

Men are being sexualized because they are strong. lmao, is basically what you are saying.
That is not the true.

So women need to show her boobs, but men only show their skills is a act of sexualization. Stop, please.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 15, 2018 ---

Ecchi is machist because: it's NOT equal to men and women. Because, in Fairy Tail, o autor put that on all the scenes, he force angles, he even chance normal moves of girls fights in a way that the boobs is the focus. Because be shirtless in a world that man can do that around without be seen as act of "being erotic'' is not the same as scene playing with revealing boobs or show the women boobs itself.

Shonen is made, until now, under man values. Shonen manga is targetting to attracted boys, that's why it is doing in a way so machist, is like it's saying ''You see this women? She is there to apetize your desires'' ''If i don't show Mirajane boobs here, maybe the boys won't get interested in this chapter'' and that's why we need to point and critice that, it's not right.

 

[Gabo]

Men are being sexualized because they are strong. lmao, is basically what you are saying.
That is not the true.

So women need do show her boobs, but man only show her skills is a act of sexualization. Stop, please.

No, I did not say that, but I get your idea, which is the classic method of taking what someone says to alter what he says and try to recompose it to use against, a very old method that has been used for a long time when you know that There is a valid point against.

It does not bother me, I know girls who do not care, there are thousands of people who care nothing at all and know that it is fiction, which is a method in the field of Manga.

They are only a few who see forces as offensive when the old method of simply not seeing it has been annoying.

If it were so macho, for years that there would be no sleeves and Comics

Your ideia actually is quite of machist.

Why would it be? Basically it is a fact that for all forces must blame the famous machismo and not consider that being media entertainment addresses aspects focused on a specific public that does not bother him.

Make it bigger than it is and say that it is macho only because you do not agree, is a method a bit childish to discuss.

The use of physical attractiveness is a tool that is used since the first series of the 30s and does not really affect anyone's way of thinking or the development of the character.


If you want to quote, do not try to alter what someone says or put things that were not said, because that makes your contribution look bad, I never change what you said to underestimate your opinion, I debited it, as it would be discussed to any mature adult, because I consider it unnecessary to twist someone's words for a pyrrhic victory that really does not matter.

At the end are opinions and since we are not the target audience, we really have less importance in the opinion we have, while the target audience is the one who decides, it means that for them it is good, and not for that reason they are wrong.

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

No, I did not say that, but I get your idea, which is the classic method of taking what someone says to alter what he says and try to recompose it to use against, a very old method that has been used for a long time when you know that There is a valid point against.

It does not bother me, I know girls who do not care, there are thousands of people who care nothing at all and know that it is fiction, which is a method in the field of Manga.

They are only a few who see forces as offensive when the old method of simply not seeing it has been annoying.

If it were so macho, for years that there would be no sleeves and Comics



Why would it be? Basically it is a fact that for all forces must blame the famous machismo and not consider that being media entertainment addresses aspects focused on a specific public that does not bother him.

Make it bigger than it is and say that it is macho only because you do not agree, is a method a bit childish to discuss.

The use of physical attractiveness is a tool that is used since the first series of the 30s and does not really affect anyone's way of thinking or the development of the character.


If you want to quote, do not try to alter what someone says or put things that were not said, because that makes your contribution look bad, I never change what you said to underestimate your opinion, I debited it, as it would be discussed to any mature adult, because I consider it unnecessary to twist someone's words for a pyrrhic victory that really does not matter.

At the end are opinions and since we are not the target audience, we really have less importance in the opinion we have, while the target audience is the one who decides, it means that for them it is good, and not for that reason they are wrong.

Ok, sorry if I have offended you. I will not continue this discussion anymore.

 

[Gabo]

Women in FT are very strong, but the fanservice ruin many scenes, has scenes that are supposed to be sad, etc, and the fanservice completely strip the importance of the scene

The issue that causes me strangeness is, why do they focus on attacking only FT if there are double and triple Ecchi sleeves of the same genre? (For me to use the term Fanservice encompasses everything that attracts the fan and not just the ecchi)


I really do not think that ruined the plot, I just feel that the author wanted to smooth events because he did not want the plot to be dark, but to give a picaresque touch, authors like Trinity Seven use that resource too, and it does not take away the taste to the anime and Manga, let's not talk about works like UQ Holder where the girls are naked almost all the time and it is rather strange that they finish a combat with clothes.

Anyway, I think it depends on the tastes here

By the way, I like your avatar

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 15, 2018 ---

Ok, sorry if I have offended you. I will not continue this discussion anymore.

When I said you offended me? I thought it was me who had offended you because of the reaction you had so extreme, but well, if you're happy like that, I do not really care

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 15, 2018 ---

ecause I can say Rebecca has more potential than lucy because of her personality imo. Some probably think differently

It also seems she can lead the story just as well as shiki being equal in importance and relevance without one overshadowed by the other.

But if she is over-sexualized like lucy then she'll most likely be overshadowed by shiki and I don't want that.

I do not think you can speak of greater or lesser potential, since they are diametrically opposed characters, and with different backgrounds.

Rebecca for me is a character who goes pro a very interesting route, I think Rebecca can be great, but not for that better than another character, not because of tastes, but because they are different, they have certain similarities, but outside of it, they are quite different

I would not like her to remain in the shadow of Shiki, but we must wait to see what will happen to her, since her plot is recent and therefore her development has just begun.

I hope to see what happens.

 

[NatsuxShiki]

The fact of having something of Ecchi does not make of a character a bad character or something chauvinist, is more, I believe that for the Japanese, Korean, Chinese, French among others what more interests to them is the Character.

Many of those who complain about Ecchi in FT are the same ones who speak wonders of Highschool DXD, Yuuragi no Yuna or Shinmai Maou no Testament, and not at all critical to those series, which are good despite their huge amount of Ecchi, the problem is that there are people who only seek the bad and the worst, is that they seek to influence the criteria of others.
I saw that they mentioned OP, but do they really think it's lower? It is not, it also has in large quantities and more considering the sizes of the bodies.

In itself even in the FT Magazine came a small count of the Nude and in itself, Erza does more Fanservice than Lucy, but do not complain by force, Gray has been naked more times than Lucy, but there is no complaint because he is a man , come on, the fact that a character has these scenes does not make it bad, because if that was the criterion, then no one would see Manga Shounen Magazine and Kodansha, who use that resource a lot as part of their way of working, for me what is important is the character, the Ecchi is just an extra that does not affect, it is more mature to accept a resource like that, than to judge something just for that resource.

If Rebecca has moments Ecchi .. Would that affect her? I do not think so, if I do not love Naru from Love Hina, Lucy, Ranma, Bulma or Stella Vermillion. Why would it affect her? I think that based on that would be to underestimate the character.

Ah--- i get it. All im saying really is that I've seen Lucy been really overshadowed and only seen as fanservice and think that's the only good thing about her. Definitely Ecchi aint bad, i don't have too much of a problem with it in general, though i think too much of fanservice can be a little bit of bad thing. In a sense. But overall. You do have a good point.

Im fine with having ecchi. It's like sometimes its a little overboard and a little unnecessary in some parts i wouldn't hate Rebecca for having those moments, i doubt it would affect her character too. I just really want Rebecca to be seen more as a person and not as like fanserivce and sucks. I don't think bad of Lucy though, i think she's a great character and pretty well written though people just see her as nothing as titties and ass.

 

[Gabo]

Ah--- i get it. All im saying really is that I've seen Lucy been really overshadowed and only seen as fanservice and think that's the only good thing about her. Definitely Ecchi aint bad, i don't have too much of a problem with it in general, though i think too much of fanservice can be a little bit of bad thing. In a sense

Although the level of Ecchi was lower, there will always be something for which they seek to eclipse characters, I have seen people who complain about characters of various series for being very sensitive, or for being very cheerful or happy ... in the end they never we can have everyone happy.

Excuse me if you hear something aggressive, English is not my mother language, so I tend to use it in a very sullen way