Discussion Elizabeth

How did Elizabeth figure out that she and Meliodas were cursed?


  • Total voters
    49

MrSchmitty7

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
3,656
Reaction score
6,861
Age
27
Gender
Male
Country
United States
1. Because we have no other feats to go off of and because unconsciousness is not necessarily a sign of overall durability, it is an inaccurate measure of durability. What is a fair assessment of that instance is the potential lack of resistance to blunt force trauma to the head.
1. How is it not a sign of overall durability when that’s basically how we judge all other characters. By what damage they tank. I’ve never heard of only certain damage being accounted for, only the situations behind them.

2. So because she was hit in the head it doesn’t count? Is there some woman’s code that says headshots don’t count?

How many more excuses are we going to make for Elizabeth, the warrior that can only be hurt in certain places? She’s a goddess and goddesses are humanoid and these are the laws the body follows. You can’t just ignore them or decide which damage counts and which doesn’t.
 

T25

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
1,109
Reaction score
834
Age
28
Country
United States
1. How is it not a sign of overall durability when that’s basically how we judge all other characters. By what damage they tank. I’ve never heard of only certain damage being accounted for, only the situations behind them.

2. So because she was hit in the head it doesn’t count? Is there some woman’s code that says headshots don’t count?

How many more excuses are we going to make for Elizabeth, the warrior that can only be hurt in certain places? She’s a goddess and goddesses are humanoid and these are the laws the body follows. You can’t just ignore them or decide which damage counts and which doesn’t.
1. Because we have seen them take various hits and not get koed but then are koed by one attack. Mel tanked all attacks at the capital against henderickson and all them hk. Stayed conscious. Knocked out in one hit by helbraham, borrowing a bit of power from the hk, even though he was growing stronger in that fight. Merlin subject to Zeldris magic attack. Stayed conscious. Knocked out when she hit her head on the wall. Griamore teeth and face smashed against henderickson. Stayed conscious. Knocked out by jab to the throat. Diane smashed in the head with her hammer. Stayed conscious. Beat by Dreyfus, helbrham, gilthunder and howser. Stayed conscious. Knocked out by punch to the gut. What do you make of this?

2. For the last time, it counts. I will not say it again. One example isn’t enough to provide accurate representation of the extent of durability nor can you state that she wouldn’t be able to take anymore damage than that. Her durability maybe bad or subpar. But we don’t know just how much damage it is possible for her to take.

Do you actually think excuses are made only for Eli? Do you believe that you make no such excuses? Think about what you have just read from me then tell me if you think that there is nothing to consider when speaking of damage
 

MrSchmitty7

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
3,656
Reaction score
6,861
Age
27
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Because we have seen them take various hits and not get koed but then are koed by one attack. Mel tanked all attacks at the capital against henderickson and all them hk. Stayed conscious. Knocked out in one hit by helbraham, borrowing a bit of power from the hk, even though he was growing stronger in that fight. Merlin subject to Zeldris magic attack. Stayed conscious. Knocked out when she hit her head on the wall. Griamore teeth and face smashed against henderickson. Stayed conscious. Knocked out by jab to the throat. Diane smashed in the head with her hammer. Stayed conscious. Beat by Dreyfus, helbrham, gilthunder and howser. Stayed conscious. Knocked out by punch to the gut. What do you make of this?
Why are we talking about others though. This is about Elizabeth. Mel v. Helbram had helbram borrowing power that wouldve exceeded 10,000 in power levels since that was Mel's level. That's double gray demon hendy. Merlin was stated to have a natural resistance to dark magic and that aided her according to the manga. As for the wall, she was in her child form and she doesn't have a confirmed magical resistance to blunt force. As for Griamore and Diane, Diane getting hit in the gut by Drole is much different than getting hit by holy knights. One is the giant king, the others are holy knights. Griamore took a chop to the back, several other lightning fast hits, then a punch to the throat. Plus Mel by that point wasn't playing around like he was in the past because they captured Elizabeth. Plus Griamore isnt even seen aftewards for a while, so I'm sure he was ko'ed by Hendrickson

One example isn’t enough to provide accurate representation of the extent of durability nor can you state that she wouldn’t be able to take anymore damage than that.
But that's how things go. You can't just assume she can take more when it hasn't been shown. Could she take more? Probably, but it hasn't been shown yet.

Do you believe that you make no such excuses? Think about what you have just read from me then tell me if you think that there is nothing to consider when speaking of damage
I used to give Eli a pass for the punch in the past, along with the other AA since they weren't going full force when they fought the 10C prior to Inudra. It's not a matter of whether excuses are made, it's more along the lines of Eli's just doesn't work out anymore if you look at the pages.
 
Last edited:

T25

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
1,109
Reaction score
834
Age
28
Country
United States
Why are we talking about others though. This is about Elizabeth. Mel v. Helbram had helbram borrowing power that wouldve exceeded 10,000 in power levels since that was Mel's level. That's double gray demon hendy. Merlin was stated to have a natural resistance to dark magic and that aided her according to the manga. As for the wall, she was in her child form and she doesn't have a confirmed magical resistance to blunt force. As for Griamore and Diane, Diane getting hit in the gut by Drole is much different than getting hit by holy knights. One is the giant king, the others are holy knights. Griamore took a chop to the back, several other lightning fast hits, then a punch to the throat. Plus Mel by that point wasn't playing around like he was in the past because they captured Elizabeth. Plus Griamore isnt even seen aftewards for a while, so I'm sure he was ko'ed by Hendrickson
Why are we talking about others? Why did you bring up how others are judged? Context. Context is very important is it not? So what was the difference in pl between helbrham and Mel then? Rather, better yet, why is a general number so important in the case of Mel getting knocked out in one hit at that time? Furthermore, Mel at 3000 was hit by 5000 henderickson, 4000 king, 3000 Diane, 3000 ban, 2000 gilthunder, 2000 howser, and all them other attacks by the hk, and withstood it all. Comments?

Even though she is resistant enough to not be killed, the bloody mess that she was rendered is not enough to knock her out but because she was turned into a child looking 30 year old, hitting her head against a wall is. So there was a reason? Duly noted.

It was matrona I was referring to.

It was one chop to the back of the throat then one to the front. Not a scratch on him yet he’s unconscious. How in the world was he able to stay awake from having his face smashed in if he can’t take two chops to the neck? So I was mistaken about the technical “1 hit KO” hm.

“Confirmed magical resistance to blunt force.” “This utterly general number was bigger even though I don’t know by how much” “he wasn’t playing around anymore” “I didn’t see him so I’m sure of what he was doing”....am I the only one making “excuses”?

But that's how things go. You can't just assume she can take more when it hasn't been shown. Could she take more? Probably, but it hasn't been shown yet.
You can’t state that she can or can’t take more but you can infer if it is possible for her to be able to take more or not. And that is a massive bulk of my point. I state that it is entirely possible for her to be able to prove more durable to damage than the force deris punch can deal


I used to give Eli a pass for the punch in the past, along with the other AA since they weren't going full force when they fought the 10C prior to Inudra. It's not a matter of whether excuses are made, it's more along the lines of Eli's just doesn't work out anymore if you look at the pages.
I don’t pull my comments out of thin air. I’ve looked and am looking quite often.
 

Seven777

Registered User
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Sep 16, 2016
Messages
5,568
Reaction score
10,567
Age
31
Country
Australia
What slip up? Put up a barrier perhaps. Back up.

How many times are you going to make me repeat that carelessness is a result within the fight or flight response? Quit turning it off. Yes they do and they may also be subject to unsound thinking. Why do you constantly reject the diversity that is the subject of adrenaline and it’s relationship to the body and action?

Excitement. Someone in a fight will have adrenaline go into effect. Furthermore, arrogance is in direct relation to adrenaline. Confidence boosted by adrenaline into arrogance. Contrary to your statement, arrogance does not “turn it off.”

Carelessness is indeed not arrogance but arrogance breeds carelessness. Right. Carelessness results in mistakes. And as I have stated repeatedly, carelessness happens when in the state of fight or flight. It does not turn it off. As such, a perceived threat, or other stimulant, is still very much there. If we are talking about the difference between arrogance and carelessness, one could very much make the argument that the perception of threat is a difference between the two but he must not forget that even so they are also common denominators. If arrogance breeds carelessness, then the argument that arrogance and carelessness go hand in hand and breed the same results is very much valid no?

Ridiculous. I stated it once and I’ll state it again: “I brought up the comparison between Eli and king to establish a relationship in which king, a warrior, performed unsatisfactory given a situation quite similar to eli’s whereby you would be able to note that taking kings performance in that moment alone would not be adequate evidence to surmise the extent of his abilities. This is precisely because we have been given performances by him, numerous times, that put into perspective the phrase “you can do better than that.” When did I say that it is impossible for her durability to be above, below or on the same level as him? Correct me if I am mistaken but did I not state that there is a possibility for all three of these? I have stated to Schmitty, quite recently, that to induce unconsciousness, certain requirements will have been met. As such, both king and Eli being knocked out does not necessarily give accurate representation of the durability of their bodies. This is where a bulk of the importance lies: the relationship between unconsciousness and durability. We have seen that king can take hits. A testament to his durability. We have not been given the same displays, nor number of, by the original Eli as of now, yet it has begun to the current Eli. That is what I commented on. I did not, as you accuse, relegate these displays to simple unfairness in favor of Eli but have instead noted that one example alone is not the only consideration necessary if we are to confirm, with all accuracy, the extent of that particular aspect they share, since it was not necessarily a testament to it nor have we been given numerous displays for Eli, that disprove it, as we have for king. Are you trying to analyze and discuss with me or are you trying to insult me?

So yes their durability maybe similar.
Nothing ridiculous about it, if there is only one feat to judge by then you use that one feat, just like how you are using that one comparable feat from King to judge that Elizabeth not being ready was the reason for her K.O and how im using the same comparable feat to judge Elizabeth's durability.
As for if im insulting you or analyzing/discussing, why would you ask something like that? I have been perfectly civil, more civil than you have been i'd say, if some particular aspect of my comment offended/disturbed you feel free to express it clearly as i have always done. But if you want a direct answer to your question, neither, my comment was an off-handed quip not meant to be analyzed, i simply thought it was funny that you called a comparison that you yourself made, inadequate.
 

MrSchmitty7

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
3,656
Reaction score
6,861
Age
27
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Why are we talking about others? Why did you bring up how others are judged? Context. Context is very important is it not? So what was the difference in pl between helbrham and Mel then? Rather, better yet, why is a general number so important in the case of Mel getting knocked out in one hit at that time? Furthermore, Mel at 3000 was hit by 5000 henderickson, 4000 king, 3000 Diane, 3000 ban, 2000 gilthunder, 2000 howser, and all them other attacks by the hk, and withstood it all. Comments?
Weren't you the one who brought up King though? Not I. As for why Mel withstood the hits, it's because those holy knights are much closer in range to him. They don't complelty outclass him. Helbram was obviously stronger. We don't know his exact, but we do know that he was able to overpower Meliodas.

Even though she is resistant enough to not be killed, the bloody mess that she was rendered is not enough to knock her out but because she was turned into a child looking 30 year old, hitting her head against a wall is. So there was a reason? Duly noted.
Yes, because Merlin once again has been gifted a resistance to curses.

It was matrona I was referring to.
Matrona knows Drole's dance and her base is only 400 points less than post Drole training Diane. Makes perfect sense to me.

It was one chop to the back of the throat then one to the front. Not a scratch on him yet he’s unconscious. How in the world was he able to stay awake from having his face smashed in if he can’t take two chops to the neck? So I was mistaken about the technical “1 hit KO” hm.
It was many chops. The pages show beams of light dashing around him also. That's not his own power. Also we don't know if Griamore tanked it. He gets hit then we never see him get back up. And even then Mel is still able to contest with red demon hendrickson without a demon mark

You can’t state that she can or can’t take more but you can infer if it is possible for her to be able to take more or not. And that is a massive bulk of my point. I state that it is entirely possible for her to be able to prove more durable to damage than the force deris punch can deal
I can hypothesize that she could take more, but currently she hasn't show the ability to do so. I can hypothesize that it will rain tomorrow, but that doesnt mean it will unless it happens.

“Confirmed magical resistance to blunt force.”
Do you deny that Merlin has a resistance to dark magic and curses?

“This utterly general number was bigger even though I don’t know by how much”
Do you deny think that Helbram was weaker than Berserk Mel? Helbram stated he was using 20 holy knights with link and Hendy was there. At minimum holy knights are 300 so at lowest he'd get a minimum of 6,000 things of power assuming that they are all 300 evenly and this doesnt count hendrickson

“he wasn’t playing around anymore”
Do you deny Mel wasn't being serious?

“I didn’t see him so I’m sure of what he was doing”
This last one isn't even an excuse... It's a literal statement about what can be seen.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Actually going back to Helbram. Marmas commented that berserker Mel and Helbram were even before Hendrickson added his power. So helbram was definitely stronger
 

T25

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
1,109
Reaction score
834
Age
28
Country
United States
Nothing ridiculous about it, if there is only one feat to judge by then you use that one feat, just like how you are using that one comparable feat from King to judge that Elizabeth not being ready was the reason for her K.O and how im using the same comparable feat to judge Elizabeth's durability.
As for if im insulting you or analyzing/discussing, why would you ask something like that? I have been perfectly civil, more civil than you have been i'd say, if some particular aspect of my comment offended/disturbed you feel free to express it clearly as i have always done. But if you want a direct answer to your question, neither, my comment was an off-handed quip not meant to be analyzed, i simply thought it was funny that you called a comparison that you yourself made, inadequate.
Ah yes if you have one feat you use it. But would it lead you to a fact or would it prove false because of preconceived notions garnered from ill advised use of information? If chapter 7 of this manga were released and you saw that Mel was knocked out on the floor from gilthunders slash, would your assessment that the extent of Mel’s durability is withstanding crashing through a few building, the force on his legs of creating a small crater and a slash to the back be an accurate assessment of his durability? I can’t help but see that you have massively simplified my statements. Am I wrong? I stated that being knocked unconscious involves various reasons other than general and overall durability. I brought up king specifically to note how one instance does not necessarily advocate the extent of their abilities and limits which is why the two of these instances from both of them is not the most accurate representation of their abilities and limits.

You very well may have been more civil than me. May you quote my hypocrisy so that I can comprehend it? I believe it’s along the lines of me using one example to disprove a notion but also saying that “one is not enough” right?
 

Seven777

Registered User
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Sep 16, 2016
Messages
5,568
Reaction score
10,567
Age
31
Country
Australia
Ah yes if you have one feat you use it. But would it lead you to a fact or would it prove false because of preconceived notions garnered from ill advised use of information? If chapter 7 of this manga were released and you saw that Mel was knocked out on the floor from gilthunders slash, would your assessment that the extent of Mel’s durability is withstanding crashing through a few building, the force on his legs of creating a small crater and a slash to the back be an accurate assessment of his durability? I can’t help but see that you have massively simplified my statements. Am I wrong? I stated that being knocked unconscious involves various reasons other than general and overall durability. I brought up king specifically to note how one instance does not necessarily advocate the extent of their abilities and limits which is why the two of these instances from both of them is not the most accurate representation of their abilities and limits.

You very well may have been more civil than me. May you quote my hypocrisy so that I can comprehend it? I believe it’s along the lines of me using one example to disprove a notion but also saying that “one is not enough” right?
No it would lead me to believe that Gilthunder is just that powerful, the broken houses etc would be less of a factor to me than the slash.
Of course im simplifying your statements, did you want me to repeat your whole argument back to you? As for your various reasons, didnt count them because they're not stated in the manga, i can buy some of them, but that doesnt relate to what i was discussing, which is using feats to judge characters.

You said one example isnt enough to compare Eli and King's durability despite also using one example to say that Elizabeth's K.O was a result of her being careless.
 

Commanderaxe

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2017
Messages
1,358
Reaction score
4,270
Age
29
Country
United States
So if i'm getting this right, the main dispute here is based upon the notion that Elizabeth's KO feat is not a suitable criteria when it comes to assessing her durability?

Elizabeth first off, has a very limited amount of feats. Even less in the physicality department. I believe the only actual raw feat she has durability wise, is indeed the Derriere feat. At least one that we've clearly seen. Saying that somehow her being hit in the head, or that she was caught off guard, discounts it, isn't exactly a tenable argument for the very fact that durability is, on some level, passive. After all whether off guard or not, a fodder like deathpierce could never scratch Derriere, even as her thoughts were miles away. With that being said, Elizabeth WAS ko'd. That cannot be denied, what that KO says about her physical stats is up to interpretation. For the most part however, it show's that Elizabeth, while in a confrontation but not in direct combat, can be knocked out by a 50k physically specialized enemy
 

T25

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
1,109
Reaction score
834
Age
28
Country
United States
Weren't you the one who brought up King though? Not I. As for why Mel withstood the hits, it's because those holy knights are much closer in range to him. They don't complelty outclass him. Helbram was obviously stronger. We don't know his exact, but we do know that he was able to overpower Meliodas.
“1. Because we have no other feats to go off of and because unconsciousness is not necessarily a sign of overall durability, it is an inaccurate measure of durability. What is a fair assessment of that instance is the potential lack of resistance to blunt force trauma to the head.”

I stated this to which you replied with:

1. How is it not a sign of overall durability when that’s basically how we judge all other characters. By what damage they tank. I’ve never heard of only certain damage being accounted for, only the situations behind them.
So I don’t know what you mean about king. Yes he overpowered mel.


Yes, because Merlin once again has been gifted a resistance to curses.
Yes she’s resistant

Matrona knows Drole's dance and her base is only 400 points less than post Drole training Diane. Makes perfect sense to me.
Gallon didnt knock her out with his kick(s) to the gut right before matrona.

It was many chops. The pages show beams of light dashing around him also. That's not his own power. Also we don't know if Griamore tanked it. He gets hit then we never see him get back up. And even then Mel is still able to contest with red demon hendrickson without a demon mark
Look at it again. Those flashes are griamores missed punches. Mel dodged. Two chops.
“I didn’t see him unconscious so I know he was unconscious.” Odd. We didn’t see if he was or not. Fair enough.

I can hypothesize that she could take more, but currently she hasn't show the ability to do so. I can hypothesize that it will rain tomorrow, but that doesnt mean it will unless it happens.
And that is exactly what I said

Do you deny that Merlin has a resistance to dark magic and curses?
No
Do you deny think that Helbram was weaker than Berserk Mel? Helbram stated he was using 20 holy knights with link and Hendy was there. At minimum holy knights are 300 so at lowest he'd get a minimum of 6,000 things of power assuming that they are all 300 evenly and this doesnt count hendrickson
Helbram was. Helbrahams pl was 1400. I do not rely too much pl. You like math

Do you deny Mel wasn't being serious?
Mel wasn’t being serious


This last one isn't even an excuse... It's a literal statement about what can be seen.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Actually going back to Helbram. Marmas commented that berserker Mel and Helbram were even before Hendrickson added his power. So helbram was definitely stronger
Your wording is odd.

Yes he thought they were.



No it would lead me to believe that Gilthunder is just that powerful, the broken houses etc would be less of a factor to me than the slash.
Of course im simplifying your statements, did you want me to repeat your whole argument back to you? As for your various reasons, didnt count them because they're not stated in the manga, i can buy some of them, but that doesnt relate to what i was discussing, which is using feats to judge characters.

You said one example isnt enough to compare Eli and King's durability despite also using one example to say that Elizabeth's K.O was a result of her being careless.
Your simplification may leave out very important details, which maybe why you accuse me of hypocrisy but so be it.

If you followed my discussion with Schmitty, which would be surprising, you may see that I have actually noted a few in regards to durability and KO.
So if i'm getting this right, the main dispute here is based upon the notion that Elizabeth's KO feat is not a suitable criteria when it comes to assessing her durability?

Elizabeth first off, has a very limited amount of feats. Even less in the physicality department. I believe the only actual raw feat she has durability wise, is indeed the Derriere feat. At least one that we've clearly seen. Saying that somehow her being hit in the head, or that she was caught off guard, discounts it, isn't exactly a tenable argument for the very fact that durability is, on some level, passive. After all whether off guard or not, a fodder like deathpierce could never scratch Derriere, even as her thoughts were miles away. With that being said, Elizabeth WAS ko'd. That cannot be denied, what that KO says about her physical stats is up to interpretation. For the most part however, it show's that Elizabeth, while in a confrontation but not in direct combat, can be knocked out by a 50k physically specialized enemy
Correct

Agreed(took chandlers attack on her back with a weaker body is of note)

I’m hella tired
 

MrSchmitty7

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
3,656
Reaction score
6,861
Age
27
Gender
Male
Country
United States
So I don’t know what you mean about king. Yes he overpowered mel.
I mean you brought up King when we were talking about carelessness. I didn't bring up other characters, I just said we use that standard to judge them.

Gallon didnt knock her out with his kick(s) to the gut right before matrona.
You'll have to provide a chapter reference for that one, I don't remember it off the top of my head

Helbram was. Helbrahams pl was 1400. I do not rely too much pl. You like math
Marmas confirmed that Helbram borrowing the power of 20 holy knights was equal to Berserker Mel. Then he surpassed Berserker Mel when Hendrickson added to the equation.

Mel wasn’t being serious
Even though he said that he would have to stop holding back so much after the Guila fight and because Elizabeth was kidnapped you think he was still playing around? Has Mel ever taken Elizabeth's safety without seriousness?

Yes he thought they were.
So we can't use Marmas because "He only thought they were" you're gonna have to prove something that disproves Marmas. We can't just say a character is wrong. By that logic I could say "Mael only thought Elizabeth was AA tier"
 

T25

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
1,109
Reaction score
834
Age
28
Country
United States
I mean you brought up King when we were talking about carelessness. I didn't bring up other characters, I just said we use that standard to judge them.
And if we use that standard to judge I will examine such characters as well. You can’t use something as basis for judgement if you don’t understand it in the first place

You'll have to provide a chapter reference for that one, I don't remember it off the top of my head
127

Marmas confirmed that Helbram borrowing the power of 20 holy knights was equal to Berserker Mel. Then he surpassed Berserker Mel when Hendrickson added to the equation.
That is about correct


Even though he said that he would have to stop holding back so much after the Guila fight and because Elizabeth was kidnapped you think he was still playing around? Has Mel ever taken Elizabeth's safety without seriousness?
Wait. What? No. I was agreeing with you. Mel was holding back when he was


So we can't use Marmas because "He only thought they were" you're gonna have to prove something that disproves Marmas. We can't just say a character is wrong. By that logic I could say "Mael only thought Elizabeth was AA tier"
Oh no you can use it. I didn’t mean to imply he was wrong.
 

Commanderaxe

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2017
Messages
1,358
Reaction score
4,270
Age
29
Country
United States
“
Agreed(took chandlers attack on her back with a weaker body is of note)

I’m hella tired
Yes but that was one shard of Chandler's attack, and with a human body, it didn't even thoroughly penetrate through. In fact, it appeared to be barely a 2nd degree burn. Clearly the main power behind Chandler's attack was the multitude of the shards, considering 1 shard couldn't even penetrate bone.
 

T25

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
1,109
Reaction score
834
Age
28
Country
United States
Yes but that was one shard of Chandler's attack, and with a human body, it didn't even thoroughly penetrate through. In fact, it appeared to be barely a 2nd degree burn. Clearly the main power behind Chandler's attack was the multitude of the shards, considering 1 shard couldn't even penetrate bone.
Yes the power was in the barrage but barrage is also dependent on the individual components. Regardless, Eli’s natural durability may very well not be up to much.
 

Commanderaxe

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2017
Messages
1,358
Reaction score
4,270
Age
29
Country
United States
Yes the power was in the barrage but barrage is also dependent on the individual components. Regardless, Eli’s natural durability may very well not be up to much.
Well that was the whole point of the debate lol
 

T25

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
1,109
Reaction score
834
Age
28
Country
United States
Well that was the whole point of the debate lol
Well yea I was never actually disagreeing with that. Utterly convoluted. It was the presentation of misinformation that spiraled into a continuous loop
 

MrSchmitty7

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
3,656
Reaction score
6,861
Age
27
Gender
Male
Country
United States
And if we use that standard to judge I will examine such characters as well. You can’t use something as basis for judgement if you don’t understand it in the first place
Yeah other characters can be examined, but generally speaking the results of their interactions tend to have crucial differences because of differences in power which can make it a bit off.

Ok and for chapter 127 isn’t that also different because Diane took a hit from Galand and then Matrona hit her immediately after. If anything it was like Grimaore, multiple strikes did her in. Same thing also happened to Mel, Drole and Glox put damage in him and then it made it easier for the 10C to finish him off according to Fraudrin.
 

T25

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
1,109
Reaction score
834
Age
28
Country
United States
Yeah other characters can be examined, but generally speaking the results of their interactions tend to have crucial differences because of differences in power which can make it a bit off.

Ok and for chapter 127 isn’t that also different because Diane took a hit from Galand and then Matrona hit her immediately after. If anything it was like Grimaore, multiple strikes did her in. Same thing also happened to Mel, Drole and Glox put damage in him and then it made it easier for the 10C to finish him off according to Fraudrin.
Yup they have their reasons. Like why mon was able to incapacitate estarossa. Or why king passed out from a puncture to the arm. But yes the general trend has been greater pl means greater effect. What then of pl stat being 40000 greater?

Yes. So was it because Matronas punch added to the damage of gallons kicks? Or did Matronas punch have the same effect as a chop to the neck? Either way Diane can take a hit.
 

MrSchmitty7

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
3,656
Reaction score
6,861
Age
27
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Yup they have their reasons. Like why mon was able to incapacitate estarossa. Or why king passed out from a puncture to the arm. But yes the general trend has been greater pl means greater effect. What then of pl stat being 40000 greater?

Yes. So was it because Matronas punch added to the damage of gallons kicks? Or did Matronas punch have the same effect as a chop to the neck? Either way Diane can take a hit.
Well like I said that’s the problem of comparing different people with Elizabeth’s situation. Matrona and Galand Diane are in a different league compared to Griamore. That and giants are already more durable than humans so we’d have to make another scenario for that. In regard to power levels it depends on the distribution of stats for certain characters. Unless of course someone is completely outclassed then in that case it doesn’t really matter
 

T25

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
1,109
Reaction score
834
Age
28
Country
United States
Well like I said that’s the problem of comparing different people with Elizabeth’s situation. Matrona and Galand Diane are in a different league compared to Griamore. That and giants are already more durable than humans so we’d have to make another scenario for that. In regard to power levels it depends on the distribution of stats for certain characters. Unless of course someone is completely outclassed then in that case it doesn’t really matter
Why then is the potential 40k+ difference between deri and Eli’s stats disregarded? It is indeed difficult to ascertain using other individuals which is why her limited displays don’t give much above the one poor display. Of course, I do not say that Eli’s durability is all that impressive. I merely conclude that if she were to take greater force in a different manner and location of body as well as actually having the intent of combat, results would be different. However there is the case of using magic to protect against damage so, her natural durability may be, even still, not all that high
 
Top