Discussion Elizabeth

[Demonspeed]

Do you consider escanor human?

Yes.

She is a human.

She was born as a human, or specifically a druid and happens to biologically and physically be the same.

Memories don't change biology, and even her wings aren't physically attached to her body (like the AA and their hosts) which proves that she isn't a Goddess right now.

Only her spirit/soul is that of a Goddess currently. Physically, she is a druid.

I personally don't consider her Human because she has awakened and is able to use all of her Goddess spells, it is her body. If she is not a Goddess, then I don't believe she is limited in power at all since it is her very own body. The Archangels themselves are able to use their full power even in a host, so it should be the same for her.

 

[Shutensatsu]

we know, just by default her PL is not going to be that small being the daughter of the SGand the feats of magic she has shown.

People are being straight ignorant with Elizabeth for some reason, and its frustrating

Explain this to me.

Thinking Eli is not 100K based off of her completely failing against high ranking demons numerous times is ignorant.

But saying “Eli is 100K because SD daughter” is the peak of intelligent logical deductive reasoning to you?

I don’t think Elizabeth is strong either but I do think she’s the most proficient PoL user in her clan

That’s prob why her purifications and Ark are praised by the AA’s

That’s a good way to look at it.

Kind of like Monspiet who was said to be the best hellblaze user in the clan despite the fact they’re are obviously stronger demons.

What do you qualify as being strong then?

Being able to win a fight on your own without help?

Can we at least start with that for her?

Yes.

I personally don't consider her Human because she has awakened and is able to use all of her Goddess spells, it is her body. If she is not a Goddess, then I don't believe she is limited in power at all since it is her very own body. The Archangels themselves are able to use their full power even in a host, so it should be the same for her.

She said she was weaker though.

 

[Demonspeed]

She said she was weaker though.

What I am saying is that if the Archangels can use their full power in hosts then there is no reason Elizabeth can't do the same when she is moving her own body. If she is really weaker right now then she can power up.

 

[LaserBeam]

She is a human.

She was born as a human, or specifically a druid and happens to biologically and physically be the same.

Memories don't change biology, and even her wings aren't physically attached to her body (like the AA and their hosts) which proves that she isn't a Goddess right now.

Only her spirit/soul is that of a Goddess currently. Physically, she is a druid.

The wierd is that the action and the words when it has to do with elizabeth are very confusing because they do not give you a straight up answer to if he is strong or weak.

You see panels like when she slaps assault mode meliodas or estarossa and you think that she is strong then you see her running away from some chandlers minions that probably don't even have 1000 power and this is getting confused.

I think nakaba needs to give a straight answer to this and stop playing games because that's what i believe that he is doing right now he should either saw whats her freaking power lvl or actually give us some real feat.

You cannot overpower an indura at least up to the certain power and then you get kicked by a minion that diane can just smash it with a hit or that whale she did but maels power lvl is up to 3000? wow how power she overpower someone whos magic is at 3000.

Elizabeths feats and statements she had are so freaking confusing.

 

[revo]

I think Elizabeth's current powers are fine. She's great at purification and her healing is so OP it works in a whole army. These are very useful things in battle even if they aren't oriented in combat.
She showed be strong enough previously against Mera, for example, and it was great. The problem is she isn't even trying much anymore, personally, even if there are situations in front of her.
Her spells are great too and we never imagined her having these. I think we should see more of her in how she's right now, because waiting her to show herself making a power up of 100k is just too much speculation.

Her magic is great, but so far, there's nothing more we can say about her.

 

[T25]

Yes.



I personally don't consider her Human because she has awakened and is able to use all of her Goddess spells, it is her body. If she is not a Goddess, then I don't believe she is limited in power at all since it is her very own body. The Archangels themselves are able to use their full power even in a host, so it should be the same for her.

She will continue to live out short life spans as a human. Were those the words since when did your considerations change what was directly stated. Escanor: born human has inhuman power= human. Eli: born human has inhuman power=not human.

 

[Demonspeed]

The wierd is that the action and the words when it has to do with elizabeth are very confusing because they do not give you a straight up answer to if he is strong or weak.

You see panels like when she slaps assault mode meliodas or estarossa and you think that she is strong then you see her running away from some chandlers minions that probably don't even have 1000 power and this is getting confused.

I think nakaba needs to give a straight answer to this and stop playing games because that's what i believe that he is doing right now he should either saw whats her freaking power lvl or actually give us some real feat.

You cannot overpower an indura at least up to the certain power and then you get kicked by a minion that diane can just smash it with a hit or that whale she did but maels power lvl is up to 3000? wow how power she overpower someone whos magic is at 3000.

Elizabeths feats and statements she had are so freaking confusing.

I don't want to sound like a snarky guy, but if Derrierie punching Elizabeth is considered a cheap shot then pretty much all of Elizabeth's offensive feats are cheap shot. Her attack on Derrierie, Estarossa and AM Meliodas.

 

[T25]

I don't want to sound like a snarky guy, but if Derrierie punching Elizabeth is considered a cheap shot then pretty much all of Elizabeth's offensive feats are cheap shot. Her attack on Derrierie, Estarossa and AM Meliodas.

Eli realized her magic, preped then fired.....are they blind? Estarossa came in a threatening manner and had already attacked. Although cutting him off and sending him away would have been cheap had he not threatened her. Mel grabbed her arm, stared at her ark and hatched it come down. Am I missing the cheapness?

 

[Demonspeed]

Eli realized her magic, preped then fired.....are they blind? Estarossa came in a threatening manner and had already attacked. Although cutting him off and sending him away would have been cheap had he not threatened her. Mel grabbed her arm, stared at her ark and hatched it come down. Am I missing the cheapness?

You are telling me that Derrierie coming right at her and punching her is a cheap shot but Elizabeth

• Attacking Derrierie while she was focused on Zaratras.
• Attacking Estarossa who had zero hostility towards her.
• Attacking Meliodas all of sudden to the point it even surprised him.

are not?

 

[T25]

You are telling me that Derrierie coming right at her and punching her is a cheap shot but Elizabeth

• Attacking Derrierie while she was focused on Zaratras.
• Attacking Estarossa who had zero hostility towards her.
• Attacking Meliodas all of sudden to the point it even surprised him.

are not?

Huh since when was protecting someone from murder considered a cheap shot?

Same with the second he came and attempted to incinerate everyone although I suppose Ill yield to that she did cut him off

As I had already stated mel watched all of that and the shock was from her going through with it

 

[Demonspeed]

Huh since when was protecting someone from murder considered a cheap shot?

Same with the second he came and attempted to incinerate everyone although I suppose Ill yield to that she did cut him off

As I had already stated mel watched all of that and the shock was from her going through with it

What is your definition of cheap shot?

 

[T25]

What is your definition of cheap shot?

hmm whats yours?

 

[Demonspeed]

hmm whats yours?

Er, in that situation, shouldn't you give me your definition first? Since I was the first to ask. Or are you trying to say that you don't want to give me one?

 

[TarXan]

What do you qualify as being strong then?

Raw power

Escanor is strong

Meliodas is strong

There’s a massive difference between strength and talent

Until we get confirmation, Elizabeth hasn’t done anything to prove she’s on Commandments or AA level

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 5, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 5, 2018 ---

Proficiency also comes from great power.

Even if her PL ends up being lower than the AA, her magic stat should be higher than there's.

And that's the minimum.

Not it doesn’t

Monspeet’s stats isnt extradinary yet he’s the most proficient Hellblaze user in his entire clan

Having a high stats doesn’t mean you are proficient or skillful, look at Merlin for example

 

[Tragicdeath]

Elizabeth is full of potential and @TarXan is right its hard to say that shes strong and top tier level if she havent prove anything yet. Its like saying Hawk Mama is strong she havent proved anything yet. But trust me I do believe shes strong but to premature to say that she is.

 

[Inuhanyou123]

Until we get confirmation, Elizabeth hasn’t done anything to prove she’s on Commandments or AA level

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 5, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 5, 2018 ---

What confirmation would you accept if you dont accept what we've already seen?

 

[Tragicdeath]

What confirmation would you accept if you dont accept what we've already seen?

What did you see Elizabeth do to consider her a top tier character

 

[Inuhanyou123]

What did you see Elizabeth do to consider her a top tier character

Let's list the feats we have already...

In her current form...

1.She's perpetually healed entire armies without breaking a sweat and without actually touching them for a significant portion of time

2. She's held off and knocked back a guy with 3 commandments inside of him going berserk

3.She's completely dispelled Zeldris's cursed magic enhanced by the DK on Merlin

4. She's completely reversed Melascula's venom's effect with a single spell

5. She's completely brushed aside Estamael's black hound attack like it was nothing with Ark of Jonah despite it having the offensive capability to burn king, diane and everyone with the rest of the squad to ash(without diane's quick thinking to burrow under ground)

6.She's rendered Melascula completely inert due to taking the entirety of hundreds of years of dark miasma from her body with a single spell

7.She's made an Ark of light so powerful she was able to injure Assault Mode Mel as well as knock him back and daze him for a time(we can also assume she was not intending to seriously harm him here)

8. She's been noted as having strong enough offensive magic power to leave no demon unharmed who was struck by her attacks, commandment or not

9. (In her goddess form) made a majority of the demonic army up and leave just by casually persuading them

10. (in her goddess form) pushed the archangels and the 10c back just by activating her power

11. (in her goddess form) managed to hold down two indura enhanced commandments for a time and managed to actually revert them(with help)


Now what are her low points?

1. She needed help to subdue the two indura

2. She was eventually overwhelmed by 3 commandments level Estarossa

3. (in her goddess form) She got knocked to the ground by Derieri

4. Maelsterossa broke out of her Ark despite the two archangels saying that it should not have been possible


When we put them all together, i feel like her feats are more than enough to conclude that Elizabeth at the very least has the feats of being an archangel level existence in terms of magical ability, whether that is offensive or defensive, while leaving her open to show stronger feats in the future. I believe her durability is likely to be very low however.

 

[Tragicdeath]

Let's list the feats we have already...

In her current form...

1.She's perpetually healed entire armies without breaking a sweat and without actually touching them for a significant portion of time

2. She's held off and knocked back a guy with 3 commandments inside of him going berserk

3.She's completely dispelled Zeldris's cursed magic enhanced by the DK on Merlin

4. She's completely reversed Melascula's venom's effect with a single spell

5. She's completely brushed aside Estamael's black hound attack like it was nothing with Ark of Jonah despite it having the offensive capability to burn king, diane and everyone with the rest of the squad to ash(without diane's quick thinking to burrow under ground)

6.She's rendered Melascula completely inert due to taking the entirety of hundreds of years of dark miasma from her body with a single spell

7.She's made an Ark of light so powerful she was able to injure Assault Mode Mel as well as knock him back and daze him for a time(we can also assume she was not intending to seriously harm him here)

8. She's been noted as having strong enough offensive magic power to leave no demon unharmed who was struck by her attacks, commandment or not

9. (In her goddess form) made a majority of the demonic army up and leave just by casually persuading them

10. (in her goddess form) pushed the archangels and the 10c back just by activating her power

11. (in her goddess form) managed to hold down two indura enhanced commandments for a time and managed to actually revert them(with help)


Now what are her low points?

1. She needed help to subdue the two indura

2. She was eventually overwhelmed by 3 commandments level Estarossa

3. (in her goddess form) She got knocked to the ground by Derieri

4. Maelsterossa broke out of her Ark despite the two archangels saying that it should not have been possible


When we put them all together, i feel like her feats are more than enough to conclude that Elizabeth at the very least has the feats of being an archangel level existence in terms of magical ability, whether that is offensive or defensive, while leaving her open to show stronger feats in the future. I believe her durability is likely to be very low however.

1. She healed and army so does it makes her a top tier? No
2. Yes she somehow managed but she didnt really espcaped. So No
3. Still no
4. So what does it even imply if she didnt beat her so no
5. Blackhound is not a high form of magic that cant really be dispelled like come on really. So no
6. Still no it doesnt really answer the question that shes top tier come on
7. Omg no no no thats not even considered a top tier move oh boy.
8, 9 10. Sorry but no that doesnt prove that shes top tier omg

Verdict: We are in the same page that she showed some potentials with those statements youve said but come on no she wasnt able to really show her potential like Escanor showcased her sunshine, Tar and Sar showcased their graces, so on and so forth. As of the moment I think we need to hold our horses because all she have done are just full of potential.

 

[Tristan]

To simplify:
- Current Elizabeth < the 4 AAs
- Current Elizabeth > "Grace-less" 4 AAs
A Graced Liz should be above the level of those 4 in a way or another.
It's all about SD's graces.