Discussion Emperors vs Admirals vs Commanders

[kkck]

I don't really see any reason to think akainu was a match to WB. Not one of their confrontations ended with akainu having the upper hand. And WB had already been through a lot of shit when akainu melted half of WB's face. The only thing that can be said for akainu is that WB couldn't one shot him but otherwise every confrontation between them ended with WB pretty much instantly pummeling akainu. Akainu never actually held his own against him.

There is definitely a limit to how much marco can regenerate... But its impossible to tell how exactly the limit would work. Or what even counts as more or less damage in this case. As in, hypothetically, if two different people stab marco... does it matter which of the two people was stronger or is a stab just a stab? What happens if marco is hit by something strong enough to break him into many pieces?

 

[M3J]

Whitebeard took so much damage before he fought Akainu? How is Admiral > Yonko relevant? I would say Garp and Sengoku are likely to be Yonko level and would be exceptions....

BB is the only Yonko who we havent seen pose a threat against an admiral and ran away. I highly doubt any admiral can take down Big Mama or Kaido with ease...

Who said Admiral > Yonkou?

I mean, Blackbeard had no problem taking on Sengoku, Akainu, Whitebeard, and others. He ran away only when Shanks arrived. He also stated that he ran away from Akainu after the war because Akainu came with other Marines as well. None of the Emperors can take down an admiral with ease either.

 

[XXGenesis]

Yes, but Marco can regenerate from this:

You gotta agree this injury is more serious than the damage that Luffy received from Kaido's club...

Well aware of Marco’s Phoenix ability to heal, which is very much similar to a logia’s constitution.

The Admirals attacked Marco with elemental DF abilities. We don’t know or have any concept of how elemental attacks work with Haki. Haki works on any DF user who’s body’s constitution has changed..I.E Garp punched work on Marco

So like any other logia. If Kaido slaps them with his club, unless they CoO their body out the way they will be hit; Same for Marco, he just has the ability to heal from the damage. I.e When Garp punched him to the ground....Kaido is going to bludgeon him.

 

[kkck]

Well aware of Marco’s Phoenix ability to heal, which is very much similar to a logia’s constitution.

The Admirals attacked Marco with elemental DF abilities. We don’t know or have any concept of how elemental attacks work with Haki. Haki works on any DF user who’s body’s constitution has changed..I.E Garp punched work on Marco

So like any other logia. If Kaido slaps them with his club, unless they CoO their body out the way they will be hit; Same for Marco, he just has the ability to heal from the damage. I.e When Garp punched him to the ground....Kaido is going to bludgeon him.

Marco's healing ability is in no way, shape, form or context similar to a logia's. The mechanics are completely different. Haki does not play a role in being able to punch or otherwise injure marco. When kizaru's lasers hit marco, there was a literal hole in his head. As in, his head was physically pierced by the laser and everything in his head suffered the physical effects of being lasered. Kizaru's lasers in turn would not have had such an effect on a logia, they would have gone through simply leaving the logia's body literally intact (unless the fruits in question have some weird interactions or haki imbued lasers are a thing). Garp was able to punch marco not because of haki but because marco is simply solid at all times, unlike a logia.

 

[Fox666]

Well aware of Marco’s Phoenix ability to heal, which is very much similar to a logia’s constitution.

The Admirals attacked Marco with elemental DF abilities. We don’t know or have any concept of how elemental attacks work with Haki. Haki works on any DF user who’s body’s constitution has changed..I.E Garp punched work on Marco

So like any other logia. If Kaido slaps them with his club, unless they CoO their body out the way they will be hit; Same for Marco, he just has the ability to heal from the damage. I.e When Garp punched him to the ground....Kaido is going to bludgeon him.

Marco ability is different from a Logia.

When a Logia is hit, they transform into their element instead of being injured.

When Marco is hit, his body is injured, but he heals almost instantly.

 

[XXGenesis]

Marco ability is different from a Logia.

When a Logia is hit, they transform into their element instead of being injured.

When Marco is hit, his body is injured, but he heals almost instantly.

I said Similar. I don’t want to debate the semantics there.

He’s can transform blue-flamed Bird. & Use those flames in whatever form he likes, to heal his wounds...I.E my opinion is that, his ability is similar to Logia’s elemental constitution. Not the same; Similar.

Either Way. I hope Marco gets more screen time to demonstrate his abilities more. I actually like him more than Ben Beckman.

 

[hokageji]

This whole claim that YOnkou > Admirals is idiotic when manga has shown us otherwise.

Who said Admiral > Yonkou?

Didnt you? Or alteast i thought thats what you meant....
Cos to me Yonko > Admirals...

 

[M3J]

Didnt you? Or alteast i thought thats what you meant....
Cos to me Yonko > Admirals...

You thought wrong though, so far I haven't seen anything to indicate either is superior than the other. In Whitebeard's case though, he was old and sick so it's understandable. However, I can't imagine an Emperor like Kaidou not trying to end the Marines if he really is superior to an admiral, as without them it'd be easier for him to bring the world into chaos.

 

[hokageji]

your words were confusing, anyways...

You thought wrong though, so far I haven't seen anything to indicate either is superior than the other. In Whitebeard's case though, he was old and sick so it's understandable. However, I can't imagine an Emperor like Kaidou not trying to end the Marines if he really is superior to an admiral, as without them it'd be easier for him to bring the world into chaos.

I disagree. Kaido can take down an admiral probably, but taking down the marines is an entirely different thing. WB pirate alliance in the marinfold war was insanely strong and put up a great resistance, but despite of the Impel escapees, the marines did have an edge over them. Same would apply for the new system that replaces shichibukai. Even if Kaido is strong enough to take down Akainu, he won't be strong enough to take down Akainu and Kizaru. Probably a set of vice-admirals together are much stronger too. In addition to this, they'd have pacifistas and things we havent seen either. Even beast pirates cannot fight them which is why he had to tie up with Big Mama.

 

[XXGenesis]

You thought wrong though, so far I haven't seen anything to indicate either is superior than the other. In Whitebeard's case though, he was old and sick so it's understandable. However, I can't imagine an Emperor like Kaidou not trying to end the Marines if he really is superior to an admiral, as without them it'd be easier for him to bring the world into chaos.

Read chapter panel With Prime WB saying the WG/Navy is an entire Organization. You can’t just face them head on. They control the world lol.

Yonkou>=OG Admirals>Greenbull/Fujitora>=1st Mate>Every other Commander

Old Man WB was SICK & INJURED Yonkou, no longer Prime with competition. WB knows what One Piece is & how to head to Raftel; He simply was the gate keeper to it, he didn’t want it or knows it’s contents info isn’t for me him to use.

The admirals fought WB when he was already INJURED. His endurance/stamina & durability is testament to him being the Strongest. They obviously wouldn’t be able to deal with the True WB legend.

The OG’s are almost equivalent to the Yonkou’s. 1 vs 1, I vote Yonkou. 1st Mates however can’t injure a Yonkou,(let’s ignore Scabbards vs Kaido) to actually make them flinch in pain much. But a 1st mate can injure a Admiral, or at least be much more of a contestant against an Admiral than vs a Yonkou.

 

[Fox666]

OG Admirals>Greenbull/Fujitora

It wasn't ever stated that the new Admirals are not on par with the originals.

Fujitora may have given that impression, but we have never seen him fighting seriously. He was not willing to do his job in Dressrosa to begin with.

The OG’s are almost equivalent to the Yonkou’s. 1 vs 1, I vote Yonkou. 1st Mates however can’t injure a Yonkou,(let’s ignore Scabbards vs Kaido) to actually make them flinch in pain much. But a 1st mate can injure a Admiral, or at least be much more of a contestant against an Admiral than vs a Yonkou.

Injurying someone isn't really a testament of anything. Only Kaido and Big Mom have invulnerable skin. The other ones would be injured if they are hit, like it happened to Whitebeard, Aokiji, Garp, etc.

 

[XXGenesis]

It wasn't ever stated that the new Admirals are not on par with the originals.

It’s stated that they are beast that were drafted from the world and they were picked over 2 other already VA.

Fujitora may have given that impression, but we have never seen him fighting seriously. He was not willing to do his job in Dressrosa to begin with.

Casually the other Admirals showed more.
He dropped a meter on Law & Doffy.
Both countered that attack; He wasn’t serious about capturing Law or stopping Luffy.

Either Way low ranked commander level characters didn’t get owned out right.


Injurying someone isn't really a testament of anything. Only Kaido and Big Mom have invulnerable skin. The other ones would be injured if they are hit, like it happened to Whitebeard, Aokiji, Garp, etc.
[/QUOTE]

Why mention Marines if you are referring to WB’s durability/ Yonkou’s durability.

OG admirals ability come from their Logia & Haki....Only way your injuring them in any way is with CoO & strong Haki.

 

[hokageji]

Injurying someone isn't really a testament of anything. Only Kaido and Big Mom have invulnerable skin. The other ones would be injured if they are hit, like it happened to Whitebeard, Aokiji, Garp, etc.

I think Kaido and Big Mom have a sort of subconscious armament haki while Whitebeard had subconscious observation haki.. this was observed with Big Mama as well but WB had a much higher level as observed on Ace's assassination attempts. Prime WB probably had invulnerable skin too, just that we havent seen it.

 

[kkck]

I think Kaido and Big Mom have a sort of subconscious armament haki while Whitebeard had subconscious observation haki.. this was observed with Big Mama as well but WB had a much higher level as observed on Ace's assassination attempts. Prime WB probably had invulnerable skin too, just that we havent seen it.

Whitebeard's body had several scars even before he even got to marineford. It doesn't sound likely that he had whatever it is kaido and big mom have going on. Add to that WB just generally giving off more of a human vibe than big mom and kaido... I woudn't be surprised if WB's durability was comparable to kaido's and BM's if his guard and haki are fully up but I wouldn't bet on his invulnerability being as casual as their's.

 

[hokageji]

Whitebeard's body had several scars even before he even got to marineford. It doesn't sound likely that he had whatever it is kaido and big mom have going on. Add to that WB just generally giving off more of a human vibe than big mom and kaido... I woudn't be surprised if WB's durability was comparable to kaido's and BM's if his guard and haki are fully up but I wouldn't bet on his invulnerability being as casual as their's.

That's a valid point, but didn't he get that scar from Roger? Surely a capable fighter can break through the armament. But yea, we've seen little and perhaps the scar speaks otherwise.

 

[HereNThere]

Yeah, I doubt Whitebeard was like those two. The series has repeatedly emphasized that those two are different than the normal human.

Kaido's situation is still in the air (as far as I know currently), but Big Mom's flashback basically confirmed how she's a human anomoly.

Whitebeard, as far as we've seen, is just a normal dude. Larger than average, but not a strange freak of nature compared to those two. He's vulnerable, as we saw from his scars, and he's susceptible to both time and sickness. Big Mom is almost his age and doesn't seem like she's stopping any time soon.

There is nothing indicating that Fujitora and Green Bull are any less capable or powerful than their predecessors and current peer. The only thing they are currently lacking is solid feats against a Yonkou, which isn't really a knock against them as they just haven't been put in that position yet.

 

[kkck]

Yeah, I doubt Whitebeard was like those two. The series has repeatedly emphasized that those two are different than the normal human.

Kaido's situation is still in the air (as far as I know currently), but Big Mom's flashback basically confirmed how she's a human anomoly.

Whitebeard, as far as we've seen, is just a normal dude. Larger than average, but not a strange freak of nature compared to those two. He's vulnerable, as we saw from his scars, and he's susceptible to both time and sickness. Big Mom is almost his age and doesn't seem like she's stopping any time soon.

There is nothing indicating that Fujitora and Green Bull are any less capable or powerful than their predecessors and current peer. The only thing they are currently lacking is solid feats against a Yonkou, which isn't really a knock against them as they just haven't been put in that position yet.

I am inclined to thinking kaido is basically from a non human species. I don't think he is actually a dragon but him being an oni or something to that efect makes sense to me. I could also see him being descended from ancient giants given his horns, basically a sort of hybrid. Big mom was appaently born from entirely human parents but her size is entirely anomalous. Barring her having some distant giant ancestors she is pretty much about as close as the series gets to a natural born mutant.

Big mom's age is one of the stranger aspects about her. Considering that her homies napoleon, zeus and prometheus are made with her own lifespan and they seem to be active non stop. At any point those 3 are active big mom is spending her lifespan at 4x the normal rate. Chronologically she is younger than WB by a few years but if you factor in her life span consumption she could be unfathomably old.

 

[M3J]

your words were confusing, anyways...



I disagree. Kaido can take down an admiral probably, but taking down the marines is an entirely different thing. WB pirate alliance in the marinfold war was insanely strong and put up a great resistance, but despite of the Impel escapees, the marines did have an edge over them. Same would apply for the new system that replaces shichibukai. Even if Kaido is strong enough to take down Akainu, he won't be strong enough to take down Akainu and Kizaru. Probably a set of vice-admirals together are much stronger too. In addition to this, they'd have pacifistas and things we havent seen either. Even beast pirates cannot fight them which is why he had to tie up with Big Mama.

But again, why can't the Emperors try to find a way to draw out the admirals and pick them off one by one?

Read chapter panel With Prime WB saying the WG/Navy is an entire Organization. You can’t just face them head on. They control the world lol.

Yonkou>=OG Admirals>Greenbull/Fujitora>=1st Mate>Every other Commander

Old Man WB was SICK & INJURED Yonkou, no longer Prime with competition. WB knows what One Piece is & how to head to Raftel; He simply was the gate keeper to it, he didn’t want it or knows it’s contents info isn’t for me him to use.

The admirals fought WB when he was already INJURED. His endurance/stamina & durability is testament to him being the Strongest. They obviously wouldn’t be able to deal with the True WB legend.

The OG’s are almost equivalent to the Yonkou’s. 1 vs 1, I vote Yonkou. 1st Mates however can’t injure a Yonkou,(let’s ignore Scabbards vs Kaido) to actually make them flinch in pain much. But a 1st mate can injure a Admiral, or at least be much more of a contestant against an Admiral than vs a Yonkou.

SO basically, the Emperors are not > admirals because even if they won, they'd likely suffer losses. An entire organization shouldn't stop the Emperors if they really are as strong as readers hype them up to be, especially if they can try to draw out an admiral to come alone or with a small fleet.

I mean, I mentioned Whitebeard being sick and injured in the post you quoted.

 

[HereNThere]

Big mom's age is one of the stranger aspects about her. Considering that her homies napoleon, zeus and prometheus are made with her own lifespan and they seem to be active non stop. At any point those 3 are active big mom is spending her lifespan at 4x the normal rate. Chronologically she is younger than WB by a few years but if you factor in her life span consumption she could be unfathomably old.

That's something I hadn't even considered. It's never been said that Big Mom is immune to the aging effects of her abilities, so it's possible that she's not even living with her full lifespan. I guess it depends on on how many years she removed from herself, but given the strength of her homies, I can't see it being a small amount if that's indeed the case

 

[kkck]

That's something I hadn't even considered. It's never been said that Big Mom is immune to the aging effects of her abilities, so it's possible that she's not even living with her full lifespan. I guess it depends on on how many years she removed from herself, but given the strength of her homies, I can't see it being a small amount if that's indeed the case

My interpretation so far has been that since lifespan is, well, time then the amount of it is not much of a factor regarding how strong it is. It only affects how much time it can be around. She definitely isn't living with her full lifespan if she is using it to make homies. Something I just thought about though..... If big mom has giant ancestors after whom she happened to take after due to a genetic lottery... then its possible she also has their lifespan. In which case having her main homies constantly active for god knows how long would reduce her lifespan to about that of a normal human.