Discussion Emperors vs Admirals vs Commanders

Lord Traffy Law

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for me the heirachy is
emperors : kaido linlin shanks = akainu kizaru kuzan
fujitora ryokugou beckmann marco

vista
katakuri jozu king shiryuu

smoothie queen

ace jack
 

Aki1991

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for me the heirachy is
emperors : kaido linlin shanks = akainu kizaru kuzan
fujitora ryokugou beckmann marco

vista
katakuri jozu king shiryuu

smoothie queen

ace jack
Agree with this. But you did not mention Garp, Senghok, Yasopp and Lucky Roux.

So for me it is like this:

1. (In future Luffy and BB)
2. Emperors : kaido linlin shanks = akainu, garp, senghok
3. kizaru kuzan
4. fujitora ryokugou beckmann marco Yasopp and Lucky Roux
5. vista
6. katakuri jozu king shiryuu
7. smoothie queen
8. oven ace jack
 

Hibari Kyoya

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Some people may not enjoy, but here you go...(I've added a few other characters just because I felt like it).

1. Rocks | Prime Whitebeard | Roger
2. Old Whitebeard | Prime Garp | Big Mom | Kaidou | Shanks
3. Akainu | Prime Rayleigh | Oden | Mihawk
4. Prime Sengoku | Current Luffy | Younger Kaidou
5. Aokiji | Kizaru | Marco | Old Rayleigh | Old Garp | Old Sengoku | Katakuri | Fujitora | Ryokugou | Beckman
6. Vista | King | Zoro | Lucky Roo | Yasop
7. Queen | Jozu | Ace | Cracker | Jinbe
8. Jack | Smoothie
9. Snack | Sanji

(Younger Kaidou in the wrong place)
 
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Ramen

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Some people may not enjoy, but here you go...(I've added a few other characters just because I felt like it).

1. Rocks | Prime Whitebeard | Roger
2. Old Whitebeard | Prime Garp | Big Mom | Kaidou | Shanks
3. Akainu | Prime Rayleigh | Oden | Younger Kaidou
4. Prime Sengoku | Mihawk | Current Luffy
5. Aokiji | Kizaru | Marco | Old Rayleigh | Old Garp | Old Sengoku | Katakuri | Fujitora | Ryokugou | Beckman
6. Vista | King | Zoro | Lucky Roo | Yasop
7. Queen | Jozu | Ace | Cracker | Jinbe
8. Jack | Smoothie
9. Snack | Sanji
Current Luffy too high. Prime Garp too low.
 

Aki1991

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Some people may not enjoy, but here you go...(I've added a few other characters just because I felt like it).

1. Rocks | Prime Whitebeard | Roger
2. Old Whitebeard | Prime Garp | Big Mom | Kaidou | Shanks
3. Akainu | Prime Rayleigh | Oden | Younger Kaidou
4. Prime Sengoku | Mihawk | Current Luffy
5. Aokiji | Kizaru | Marco | Old Rayleigh | Old Garp | Old Sengoku | Katakuri | Fujitora | Ryokugou | Beckman
6. Vista | King | Zoro | Lucky Roo | Yasop
7. Queen | Jozu | Ace | Cracker | Jinbe
8. Jack | Smoothie
9. Snack | Sanji
Luffy too high and prime Garp was a beast imo and should be higher
 

Shasha23

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Some people may not enjoy, but here you go...(I've added a few other characters just because I felt like it).

1. Rocks | Prime Whitebeard | Roger
2. Old Whitebeard | Prime Garp | Big Mom | Kaidou | Shanks
3. Akainu | Prime Rayleigh | Oden | Younger Kaidou
4. Prime Sengoku | Mihawk | Current Luffy
5. Aokiji | Kizaru | Marco | Old Rayleigh | Old Garp | Old Sengoku | Katakuri | Fujitora | Ryokugou | Beckman
6. Vista | King | Zoro | Lucky Roo | Yasop
7. Queen | Jozu | Ace | Cracker | Jinbe
8. Jack | Smoothie
9. Snack | Sanji
Luffy too high
Mihawk too low
Prime Garp too low
Prime Sengoku too low
 
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Hibari Kyoya

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I think we are at the stage in the series where if Luffy isn't near where I suggested then we are going to have trouble. I don't know exactly how much I can go into current chapter detail, but if Luffy isn't at this level he is about to get killed ha. Plus he's had a number of power ups since being rated near Katakuri.

I will also expand on why I think Prime Garp (whilst a monster and Yonko level) isn't 'Pirate King' level (e.g. equal to Roger/Rocks).

Roger (and Whitebeard) both seem like the type of guys that would happily 'spar' with Garp but never really TRY their best to finish him off/execute him (they aren't 'bad' pirates), I see their fights mostly as 'sport' for Roger. Garp would have been doing his utter best to kill/capture but could never accomplish it, whereas Roger managed to evade Garp numerous times and was never defeated. I believe if Garp was truly at his level, you would imagine that of their numerous fights that at least one might have went Garp's way. Unless you use the argument that "Remaining Roger Pirates > Whatever Marines Garp was with/brought with him", but even still, Roger doesn't seem like he would be the type to gang up on an enemy with a numerical advantage.
 

HereNThere

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Roger himself admitted that both he and Garp had nearly killed each other several times in the past. The two, more often than not, have been paired off as equals. Even as recently as the reveal of them being the two individuals to singlehandeldy (double handedly?) take down Rocks and his crew.

I'm thinking about the Rocks crew, and it's funny to think that Whitebeard, Big Mom, and Kaidou were most likely his Commanders. I wonder how their powers then compared to the current generation of Commanders. Would they have been outperformed by the current day Admirals?
 
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Shasha23

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I will also expand on why I think Prime Garp (whilst a monster and Yonko level) isn't 'Pirate King' level (e.g. equal to Roger/Rocks).

Unless you use the argument that "Remaining Roger Pirates > Whatever Marines Garp was with/brought with him", but even still, Roger doesn't seem like he would be the type to gang up on an enemy with a numerical advantage.
as @eefrit pointed out Garp and Roger nearly killed each other numerous times, and are implied to have been equal along with Whitebeard and Sengoku

We already saw that when Garp went after Roger he took Tsuru, Aokiji, Akainu, several of the Vice Admirals that were at the war, the team Garp travelled with was extremely powerful they are in no way inferior to the Roger Pirates
 

Hibari Kyoya

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Roger himself admitted that both he and Garp had nearly killed each other several times in the past. The two, more often than not, have been paired off as equals. Even as recently as the reveal of them being the two individuals to singlehandeldy (double handedly?) take down Rocks and his crew.

I'm thinking about the Rocks crew, and it's funny to think that Whitebeard, Big Mom, and Kaidou were most likely his Commanders. I wonder how their powers then compared to the current generation of Commanders. Would they have been outperformed by the current day Admirals?
@Shasha23 To my knowledge this is actually a mistranslation...the manga page on the official translation states "we've been fighting each other for years". Roger never said they both nearly killed each other several times. I don't know why the wiki isn't updated.

(Chapter 551, Page 5 I think)
 
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M3J

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Roger himself admitted that both he and Garp had nearly killed each other several times in the past. The two, more often than not, have been paired off as equals. Even as recently as the reveal of them being the two individuals to singlehandeldy (double handedly?) take down Rocks and his crew.

I'm thinking about the Rocks crew, and it's funny to think that Whitebeard, Big Mom, and Kaidou were most likely his Commanders. I wonder how their powers then compared to the current generation of Commanders. Would they have been outperformed by the current day Admirals?
Willing to bet that the three Emperors back then would have lost to the current admirals. Whitebeard is the only one that I question though.
 

Shasha23

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@Shasha23 To my knowledge this is actually a mistranslation...the manga page on the official translation states "we've been fighting each other for years". Roger never said they both nearly killed each other several times. I don't know why the wiki isn't updated.

(Chapter 551, Page 5 I think)
I will look for the RAW to my knowledge your the first person who has ever said it was a mistranslation, even if this was a mistranslation it still doesn't change the fact that Roger stated that the only people who can fight him were Garp, Sengoku and Whitebeard so there is no way any of those 3 are weaker than Roger since we saw Whitebeard fight him to a draw, its only logical to say that Garp and Sengoku would have done the same too.
 

HereNThere

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To my knowledge this is actually a mistranslation...the manga page on the official translation states "we've been fighting each other for years". Roger never said they both nearly killed each other several times. I don't know why the wiki isn't updated.
Fair enough.

That being said, even beyond that page, the manga has juxtaposed the two of them enough times for us to consider them equals on some level. Along with Whitebeard and, recently Sengoku.
 

XXGenesis

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Fair enough.

That being said, even beyond that page, the manga has juxtaposed the two of them enough times for us to consider them equals on some level. Along with Whitebeard and, recently Sengoku.
Exactly. They don’t even have to be on the same lv exactly. Which I believe the manga is suggesting, because Roger was never captured he turned himself in...Basically

Garp & Sengoku were the only Marines WB & Roger knew & viewed as a threat or rivals. They are within the same realm..WB & Roger were probably stronger but when Garp shows up Roger, knew He had a good fight on his hand
 

Hannibal Psyche

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Admirals and Emperors are probably equal in strength.

Thing is if we compare Admirals and Emperors to Roger or Whitebeard, they're inferior.

Roger and Whitebeard were just in a class of their own.

Garp and Sengoku however are probably the strongest out of the Admirals if I had to guess, but I couldn't say with certainty.
 

fist-of-fury

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commanders are below old legends who are below admirals/yonko
 

redhairSH

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Whitebeard was sick, but I don't know how to quantify that. He was still considered the "strongest man" and an almost unstoppable force at Marineford.


I tried to avoid cases like that, or surprise attacks like Jozu hitting Aokiji and vice-versa, etc.

Also I didn't included examples that depends only on how Devil Fruits works such as Akainu killing Ace.


Not exactly. The Gorosei mentioned Marco as one of the forces that could stop Blackbeard. It wouldn't necessarily take an Emperor or Admiral to confront Blackbeard.


I didn't included Rayleigh as a Commander because the hierarchy of the Roger Pirates is not clear. All the Emperors had Commanders, Executives, etc.


In the end it was decided in a duel. Nonetheless, there never was much difference between Akainu and the others.
Well, it is difficult to quantify how much weaker whiteboard got, but we do have statements and panels that give clues. For instance, WB was stabbed by square, we were told by his crew that attack should never have hit, he should see even surprise attacks from allies coming and be able to defend, it sounds like he was so sick that has a halo was failing him, which makes sense.

We know he also has conquers haki, but couldn't use it, we know he used his bisento to stab admirals and they managed to survive, this could be them using haki to know how to manipulate their logia bodies similar to katakuri and his mochi fruit. There were also scenes where he didn't have the strength to do things when he wanted. We know he was very sick, we know the sickness was bad enough that he was having trouble with using halo, and his overall abilities weakened enough to give Marco, who's been with him for decades, pause, and make him wish whiteboard was just a couple years younger. This suggests that the WB who beat ace up continuously was much stronger than his marineford counterpart, which makes sense as two years before he could stop ace in his sleep, and at the war he was stabbed right in the front by squard.

Whitebeard was weakend to the point that all his physical abilities and at least two of his types of haki were impaired, and even with having lower physical and haki abilities, and after being stabbed through the chest, he was still able to go toe to toe with akainu and kizaru and hundreds if not thousands of other top marines, and still have the power to do some damage to blackbeard after the fight for ace.

As for commanders, their strength varies a lot, but at marineford, marco and jozu were going head to head with admirals, but we're distracted watching WB and for caught bad with freezing and lasers. It seems like commanders powers, like the shichibukai, vary greatly, and are hard to quantify, commanders could be on par with the weaker shichibukai, like curiel of the WB pirates against moria, or they could be strong enough to compete against an admiral, like marco.

The WB war showed us one thing, that a very weakened yonko missing two of his top fighters nearly defeated the gathering of marines and the 5 shichibukai with them. If it happened before when whitebeard was 2 years younger and Ace and Thatch were there? With jinbei and crocodile still as warlords? Hancock would have not shown up, jinbei would be in impel down, so instead of 5 warlords and the strongest marines against a weakened yonko missing two of his top fighters, it would be 5 warlords and the strongest marines against a less weakened yonko with all his commanders. He might still have lost, but who knows?
 

shadowlord

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--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Some people may not enjoy, but here you go...(I've added a few other characters just because I felt like it).

1. Rocks | Prime Whitebeard | Roger
2. Old Whitebeard | Prime Garp | Big Mom | Kaidou | Shanks
3. Akainu | Prime Rayleigh | Oden | Mihawk
4. Prime Sengoku | Current Luffy | Younger Kaidou
5. Aokiji | Kizaru | Marco | Old Rayleigh | Old Garp | Old Sengoku | Katakuri | Fujitora | Ryokugou | Beckman
6. Vista | King | Zoro | Lucky Roo | Yasop
7. Queen | Jozu | Ace | Cracker | Jinbe
8. Jack | Smoothie
9. Snack | Sanji

(Younger Kaidou in the wrong place)
if power levels are like a building then wb , roger, rocks in top floor but that floor destroyed with them there is no more power like them anymore others are below floors
1.blackbeard
2,akainu,shanks,kaido (i don't where to put big mom )
? mihawk ,big mom ,dragon
3.luffyy(is he sayaji(dragonball)???)
4.other yonko commanders
finally if there is no interference from oda, garp and sengoku would kill everyone from the list ...
wb too can kill them regardless sickness or heart attack ( akainu escaped because oda saved him likewise ace's death)
 
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john ellis

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if i had to have a power scale

well it depends how strong imu and joyboy are but there probably the gods of the verse. Aka this manga's verison of madara and hashirama.

so assuming thats true

tier 0
imu
joyboy

tier 1 -Modern day gods
rocks
prime garp
roger

1.5
prime whitebeard (i think he loses to everyone in tier 1 is kinda why he's not in tier 1. I think he high dif's them but.... i think he's just slightly below them)

tier 2- yonko tier
kaido
BM
shanks
akainu
prime slivers
old whitebeard
old garp
Luffy

tier 2.5 (sub yonko tier tbh i wanted to put luffy here, but wano is nearly over so....)
mihawk
ben beckman
sengoku
old slivers
the rest of the admirals
zoro?

tier 3 yonko 1st commander
the rest of shanks commanders
all 1st yonko commanders besides ben beckman
law
kidd

second yonko commander
queen
jack (he has a 1bil+ bounty and i think all of kaido's commanders are somewhat on par tbh, queen is stronger still but i don't think a whole tier)
smoothie
Ace

3rd yonk commander
the rest of whitebeard's commanders
cracker
warlords( besides crocodile, mihawk, moria)
the Flying six (they've shown feets on par with warlods, and bounties probably similar to whitebeard commanders)
snack (probably on par with most of the flying six, Cracker is probably the strongest of this tier, and snack is probably the weakest)


also a note on why whitebeard isn't tier 1. So logically when roger+garp fought against rocks. It's implied rocks>roger/garp. Now if whitebeard who was nearly at his prime logically like he would of been 70-80% his prime's power. Was about equal as roger or garp at the time. Then rocks+whitebeard>garp+roger. Given the fact the rest of rocks crew was probably equal to rogers it makes no sense to put whitebeard as tier 1.
 
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Ramen

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prime whitebeard (i think he loses to everyone in tier 1 is kinda why he's not in tier 1. I think he high dif's them but.... i think he's just slightly below them)
He's never lost to Roger and had his epithet during Roger's time. WB > Roger and Garp.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

tier 2.5 (sub yonko tier tbh i wanted to put luffy here, but wano is nearly over so....)
mihawk
ben beckman
sengoku
old slivers
the rest of the admirals
zoro?
You put Zoro, Luffy, and Beckmann with the other admirals? Kek
 
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