Enel vs Kizaru

[Kyodai Senkan Mora]

This has been gnawing at my mind ever since i re-watched the skypiea arc.who would win in a battle between enel and kizaru considering they can both move at the speed of light and both have at least one type of haki.which fruit is superior?

 

[kkck]

Kuzaru would mop the floor with enel IMO. Not even much of a chance for enel to put up a fight. Enel's actual physical capabilities are not all that great as luffy was actually able to keep up. heck, in terms of sheer strength it kinda seemed like luffy was kinda the better one. In turn, kizaru does not need his fruit to be insanely fast, he was even able to match a powerful non fruit user swordsman like raileigh. More so, kizaru is a confirmed haki user meaning that his attacks can and will trash enel. Enel is vastly outclassed IMO, he won't have a chance. If enel had the caliber of an admiral, there is no way a measly rubberman would have been much of a threat.

 

[Anduren]

I agree with kkck for the most part. Even though Kizaru (I don't think) has shown any clear signs of color of observation haki, in a battle between two logias, his color of armament haki will give him an instant upper hand in the battle. If I had to guess though, I'd say Kizaru IS able to use CoO haki based on chapter 507, pages 14 and 15 (though other conclusions could be drawn to how and why he knew to let the bullets pass him or knowing someone was shooting him from behind etc.) I'm also assuming that he can use CoA haki based on how he along with the other two admirals were able to block Whitebeard's quake attack during the war (chapter 564, page 10). Anyways, since Enel only has manthra aka CoO haki and not CoA haki, he has no way of dealing any damage to Kizaru even if he could predict Kizaru's movements and keep up with him. Still it'd be a fun fight to watch.... supposedly Enel was going to show up in the new world sometime in the future?

P.S. Though a minor thing, this thread should probably be in the One Piece Playground > Davy Back Fight section I think.

 

[Kyodai Senkan Mora]

While both kkck and anduren have made the very relevant point about Kizarus COA haki giving him an upper hand, I still think Enel's fruit is superior to kizaru's in the logia order à la akainu and ace.therefore even without COA, Enel may still have the upper hand if lightning trumps light and completely obliterate kizaru

p.s request to any mod to move this if its in the wrong place

 

[Epic_Rider]

While both kkck and anduren have made the very relevant point about Kizarus COA haki giving him an upper hand, I still think Enel's fruit is superior to kizaru's in the logia order à la akainu and ace.therefore even without COA, Enel may still have the upper hand if lightning trumps light and completely obliterate kizaru

p.s request to any mod to move this if its in the wrong place

I don't think lightning is superior to light, you know...

Anyway, I agree with kkck, Kizaru takes this easily. Not only does he have CoO like Enel, but he has CoA, which gives him an automatic advantage against Enel, who as we saw, nearly went to pieces when Luffy was able to hit him. Not only that, he's outclassed in combat experience as well.

 

[MaiSiaoSiao]

i thought it was stated somewhere that to be a VA you need to have haki?If so then an admiral must have haki as well.O.o

 

[hyper_megaman]

enel can't move at the speed of light

electricity doesn't move at the speed of light

also enel doesn't use his electrical powers to move around the atmosphere, he requires conductive surfaces, that's why he fought on his ark. i imagine moving through air is pretty hard, which is why u require such a high voltages before electrons can be discharged from clouds int he form of lightning to overcome aerial resistance

 

[Anduren]

It's true I didn't really take into account the "elemental" relationship of light vs. electricity . And technically, as hyper_megaman said, electron base velocity is about 1/10th the speed of light. However, when excited with photons, electrons can gain energy and increase in velocity/momentum. So in effect, Kizaru's ability will be amplifying Enel's ability (at least in speed).

The difference is that light aka photons are pure energy (supposedly with no mass/momentum) but electricity is charged particles (ideally electrons) with an electrical potential and mass/momentum. However, we saw by Kizaru's own words, that "speed is weight" so he can put momentum behind his light speed which takes away any physical advantage Enel may have over Kizaru. As far as electromagnetism goes, it cannot affect light. From what has been observed, only gravity affects light (gravitational lensing etc.)

If I had to guess though, I'd say that the relationship between Light and Lightning is the same as Cloud/Smoke and Flame... light can be a product of lightning the same way smoke can be a product of flames. So it's a draw as far as element vs element goes.

Though a bit off-topic I wanted to explain the situation between Ace and Akainu too. There was a good physical reason why magma was greater than flame. Basically flame requires air (as a fuel in a chemical reaction) to burn whereas magma is a semi-fluid/solid form of packed heat. So by snuffing out the air that burns the flame, Akainu's magma was able to burn Ace's body through conduction of heat.

 

[hyper_megaman]

if electron movement were at the speed of light or anywhere close, we'd have died and have our solar system crushed into a black hole the very first moment electricity flowed

 

[Aphalite]

I think Enel is stronger than everyone's giving credit to him for, the only reason he lost to Luffy was because of the natural weakness thing, it was as if Luffy was using CoA on him. Just because he met his natural nemesis (in an earlier arc where Luffy was weaker) doesn't mean that his actual fighting strength was low. No one else on that island could come close to touching him

 

[malgranda]

Before time skip Kizaru would crush Enel like a toothpick thanks to advantages in experience, broader haki skills and probably physical strength too. That was before ts, i wonder if how Enel improved in the meantime. He promised comeback after all, and it won't be Enel if comeback isn't worthy of a god.

 

[Netero]

This would be a pretty cool match up. I think Kizaru would win, but if Kizaru didn't have haki then I would have said Enel.

 

[Uriel]

Now I think tournaments here wouldn't be such a bad idea. I would say that Kizaru, but only based on his experience. Oda stated that Enel would worth 500 million belli and I doubt Kizaru is not enough to deal with someone at that "level" (To say something, I don't believe in power levels in OP) and it's an admiral...One of the top of the top heads of the government.

 

[ErosVp]

People should visit davy back fight session more! we don't see this much replies in the hypothetical bouts presented there....

 

[Uriel]

People should visit davy back fight session more! we don't see this much replies in the hypothetical bouts presented there....

Thing is that sub-forums ALWAYS make a decrease of activity.

It's one of those truths about Internet I found a long ago among other kind of resourceful stuff. Anyway, if you guys have any idea to increase the activity there, let us know!

 

[ErosVp]

I don't really have any ideas, but these guys must stop being lazy and search try to know the forums better lol! Tree of Knowledge has a good number of visitors, but others sub-forums....

There are lots of good threads in Davy Back guys! Go there to discuss (speculate) others who would win fictious bouts between various characters! One Piece Playground is good too...

 

[Anduren]

As for ideas on how to get more people to check sub forums, there's a *NOW* Recommended Threads - as of 21st Jun 2011" sticky thread that can be updated often to direct people to different fields based on interest .

As for the actual Enel vs. Kizaru fight, I wonder if Enel can outdo Kizaru on CoO since his electricity gives him a huge boost to the mantra range. If he can El Thor Kizaru from a distance where Kizaru cant even sense his presence from, then he can snatch a clear victory.

 

[hyper_megaman]

I think Enel is stronger than everyone's giving credit to him for, the only reason he lost to Luffy was because of the natural weakness thing, it was as if Luffy was using CoA on him. Just because he met his natural nemesis (in an earlier arc where Luffy was weaker) doesn't mean that his actual fighting strength was low. No one else on that island could come close to touching him

and kizaru's much stronger than you're giving him credit for


the guy knows haki, and could hit logias, while there is no evidence suggesting enel is capable of the same

kizaru moves faster without depending on anys pecific environment advantages, and has the capability to hit logias, and also as an admiral should know rokushiki (bring the fight to the middle of the ocean much?)

enel is powerful, no doubt about it, but kizaru is crazier. no one's saying enel is weak. kizaru's just far more powerful

---------- Post added at 03:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:52 AM ----------

As for ideas on how to get more people to check sub forums, there's a *NOW* Recommended Threads - as of 21st Jun 2011" sticky thread that can be updated often to direct people to different fields based on interest .

As for the actual Enel vs. Kizaru fight, I wonder if Enel can outdo Kizaru on CoO since his electricity gives him a huge boost to the mantra range. If he can El Thor Kizaru from a distance where Kizaru cant even sense his presence from, then he can snatch a clear victory.

there's the huge question, that if COO helps if the attacker moves faster than you can react

much like spiderman vs the flash. spiderman could sense danger, but the flash could basically walk up to him while munching on a drumstick, looking at the guy who's basically just still as a statue.


oda mentioned lucci was capable of taking down enel iirc, that it would be a long fight but he'd win in the end. i think it's safe to assume as admirals their basic physical abilities are comparable or higher than that, before you even take into account their logia powers

 

[Anduren]

there's the huge question, that if COO helps if the attacker moves faster than you can react

much like spiderman vs the flash. spiderman could sense danger, but the flash could basically walk up to him while munching on a drumstick, looking at the guy who's basically just still as a statue.

CoO/mantra isn't exactly a danger sense. "Color of Observation: Haki", I believe, is an enhancement to observation i.e. perception that comes from the haki (or willpower/determination/conviction etc.) of the person that allows him/her to predict the mental state of the target(s). It's used mostly to predict what a person is thinking. We've seen it used as a radar by Enel to count how many people are still on Skypea as well as by Rayleigh to measure how many creatures on the island he trained Luffy on were stronger than Luffy, as well as where those creatures were. We also saw that Gan Fall had his house at a place far enough away from the Vearth that he was outside of Enel's mantra range to detect. We also saw that if the person being read using CoO were not thinking anything, then that person's actions cannot be predicted (Gomu Gomu no Baka: Chapter 281, page 13 & 14 and Gomu Gomu no Octopus Rampage: page 15 & 16 same chapter). CoO isn't like Sharingan or Byakugan in Naruto where you can see everything around you and predict what's going to happen. It can only predict living things by what's on their minds.

That said, the point I was making was that as Enel said in Chapter 278, page 2, his devil fruit gives him a bonus/enhancement that allows him to use CoO at an extended range that allows him to pinpoint anyone within his mantra range and use "God's Judgement" i.e. El Thor on them. This is an ability only he has because of the relationship between his use of devil fruit and his use of mantra (something Kizaru cannot do). If Enel is outside of Kizaru's CoO range, he cannot "see" Enel's attack no matter how fast he is. The only counter-argument I can think of right now for this is just to say that El Thor takes a while to charge up and Kizaru can easily turn elemental when he sees the beam of light forming over him . But if Kizaru doesn't physically see the attacks coming and prepare for them, Enel can attack him from outside of his CoO range and keep avoiding Kizaru because Kizaru will not know where Enel is attacking from.

oda mentioned lucci was capable of taking down enel iirc, that it would be a long fight but he'd win in the end. i think it's safe to assume as admirals their basic physical abilities are comparable or higher than that, before you even take into account their logia powers

That would be an interesting match up to see and I'm curious how Oda would play out such a battle since soru isn't exactly as fast as electricity and Lucci hasn't shown any signs of CoA haki. Anyways, it'd be nice if you could give some reference just for verification .

 

[Wisshard]

Enel has powerful and fast attacks to be sure: even the Monster Trio at Skypedia was unable to evade his strongest attacks. His basic combat abilities (reaction speed, physical strength, physical speed, endurance, durability, martial skill etc.) however, are not so impressive. Hence, judging from what we've seen, Kizaru would literally have no difficulty whatsoever with Enel: the lightning man would so loose horribly that he would be knocked out/killed before he even realized that the fight had started.

Note that Enel can't use CoA , and thus can't harm Kizaru in the first place, though it's not like it matters...