Discussion Escanor

[shadow22]

Who the hell is Escanor? A prince born 40 years ago in Castellio kingdom, a cursed child who was randomly given Sunshine and could mysteriously endure such a strong magic power from a nonhuman race? Why his father was so afraid of his appearance?
For a long time, I thought the only reliable info about Escanor's life is provided by Gowther's technique, Nightmare Teller, during Vaizel festival arc. There was no reason to doubt their reliability other than Merlin's final shit talk about how they can't be together. But chapter 296 may have shown us a truth deeper than that of Nightmare Teller. I checked chapter 296 discussion thread, but I found no mention of it there. Plz let me know if my post is similar to an existing one. However, let's begin...

1.

Spoiler: Escanor Talks About Rhitta

When Escanor explains why Galan can't hold the axe, he says it's named after a maiden loved by the Sun. Based on the fact that he didn't know the nature of his own power, Escanor was most probably telling a myth someone else had told him about Rhitta. But Nakaba most probably used it as a huge foreshadowing. It was later revealed that Sunshine is a grace and the former wielder of it was Mael the Sun. Mael loved Elizabth who has no connection to the divine axe at all. So there should be another one with the title of Sun who used to love a maiden called Rhitta. Was there another Archangel who had given Sunshine before Mael? What happened to him?

2.

Spoiler: Ludo's Friend

Among all of goddess clan members, only seven individuals had more than one pair of wings so far. SD, Eli, the four AAs, and Ludo's dead friend. We can see his right lower wing beneath his armpit in the middle panel. Although the fact that he was killed by a red demon is really suspicious, but considering how disappointing night Escanor and even post noon Mael are, his death is justifiable imo. Another interesting fact is that the girl he died protecting closely resembles Rosa as mentioned by @Kinguxsloth in chapter 296 discussion.

Chapter - Nanatsu no Taizai 296 Discussion / 297 Predictions

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Is that just a coincidence? Or another foreshadowing? Rosa is the one who saves Escanor and former Sun AA sacrifices his life to protect a girl(?) who looks like Rosa to some extents.

3. Ludo doesn't mention anything about a lover, he believes his friend just wanted to protect a life. Considering how racist the angels were, maybe the dead AA didn't have the courage to tell his best friend about his secret. That he loves a girl who is not a member of GC. So nobody knows the extent of their relationship. Did they marry in secret or something like that?

4. With all the weird stuff like freezing time, immortality, mindfucking, brainwashing, and other types of magic used in NnT universe, it's just natural to doubt the credibility of memories about Castellio, or the exact date of birth. The reason is provided by Nakaba in chapter 296.
This one can be a mere illusion made up by my Escanor seeking eyes. The point here is that the girl might not be alone, but holding a baby in her arms.

It's a very weak argument, each part of it can be terribly wrong, or a simple wishful thinking. But if we assume the man is the Sun, and the woman is Rosa, and if there is really a baby held by her, who else can he be other than Escanor. There are still lots of questions to be answered like why he was still a baby 40 years ago,

Spoiler: Escanor at Castellio

and why Rosa wasn't introduced as his mother. But it explains why Sunshine chose Escanor after leaving Mael and why Escanor's bodily response to the power of grace was different from normal humans.
However, knowing that NnT is full of amnesiac or mindfucked characters, like Estarossa, Hawk mama, Diane, Elizabeth, and even doll Gowther, I won't be surprised if Escanor is one of them too. So I choose to doubt his own memories revealed to us by Nightmare Teller technique. In fact, now that Mel and Eli's curse is solving, investigating other dark secrets of GC and their leader's wrongdoings would be interesting imo.

@Mighty Escanor I actually made a post on escanor being a demigod a while back

Theory - escanor is a demigod

Theory: Escanor is a Demigod? Alright so let me just start at what we know at the very beginning of Escanor’s life (or what we’ve seen of it thus far) Does anybody find it strange that his ‘parents’ was just now naming him? If the mother did give birth to him wouldn’t you think she would...

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[kkck]

Honestly, given how this chapter ended and how awful everything that continues to happen I could buy nakaba out of the blue making a huge nonsense reveal about why escanor can handle the grace. I mean, there has to be a reason obviously. I could buy escanor being a reincarnated former archangel. Mael became an archangel relatively late in the game after all. As far as we saw he was still child looking by the time the other 3 archangels had their graces. So there is a lot of wiggle room for someone to have had his grace before him given for how long the war had been going on.

 

[BurlapJack]

So I completely forgot about Cath

Wtf did he run off to?

 

[Ema919]

Btw the fact that Merlin said Escanor is the easily the strongest of the sins at his peak during The Vampires of edinburgh flashback should be proof that Escanor significantly improved after getting one-shot by mel.

 

[Jdmp53]

Btw the fact that Merlin said Escanor is the easily the strongest of the sins at his peak during The Vampires of edinburgh flashback should be proof that Escanor significantly improved after getting one-shot by mel.

that's understood already....He has learnt how to control his power like how to use moves such as Divine Axe, Divine spear , Cruel Sun ,Crazy Prominence ...and in the final fight against DK..he also learnt how to wield sunshine even better after seeing mael use it against Zel , that's why he could puncture DK outside one mode...But still He lacks verstalitiy in his attack style like other sins...It's mostly raw power even then.

 

[OtakuFreak]

Escanor's sudden power-up with the sun grace is nothing more than bullshit and a perfect example of Nakaba's terrible writing. He never got ''stronger'' by himself, it was just Nakaba wanting him to not look absolutely pathetic when fighting against the Demon King when he was about to die. If the Demon King fodderized him, it would've made his pointless death even more pointless.

I don't think it was ever stated that the sun grace depended on the user for its strength, but rather it would bestow a consistent power no matter what (e.g Escanor would be at the exactly same PL at 11.00 AM every day, no matter what).

I mean... his ''The One'' was nowhere near Deity tier when he fought Zeldris, then he shortly gave the grace to Mael, only to get it back and seemingly be on par with a God. When did he have the time to get stronger?

It's atrocious writing. That's it. 12.5% of the Supreme Deity's power is not equal to the Demon King.

 

[Shadowlord123]

I mean, even assuming the notion that every Grace is 12,5 % of the SD's power is true, Sun is clearly very different from the other Graces. The power of this Grace fluctuates with time (or more accurately the position of the Sun, which is another energy source that doesn't depend entirely on the SD), unlike the other ones which maintain static. The way I see it the other three Graces' power output is always 12,5%, but Sun doesn't work like this. At night the Grace is completely inactive, so it's safe to assume that the power ouput is 0%. From this logic, the power output of Sun should be greater than that of any other Grace during the day to balance this massive downside it has. Again, from my perspective:

- Sun (Night): 0%
- Flash/Ocean/Tornado/Sun (Dawn-Morning): 12,5%
- Sun (Late Morning/Near Noon): Around 25%
- Sun (Noon): Near 50% (only lasts one minute)

If we look at it like this, it doesn't seem that BS that The One can seemingly stand up with a casual 50% DK without being insta fodderized. The problem is that Nakaba never goes deep with anything and leaves the important explanations for the reader's imagination. He could have said this and that The One mode was the same for every user, independently of his base strength. For me, this would have been a pretty decent explanation to all of this, but again, he choose not to do it.

And again, this is probably an exaggeration. Even with The One + burning his life force as The Ultimate One, Escanor is clearly below 50% DK Zel (assuming he was at half of his power). He is above him physically, that's undeniable, but magic wise the DK takes a shit on him. Overall the DK is much better. Escanor was unable to get out of Death Zero on his own and wasn't doing much damage to the DK, who at that point possessed Britannia out of pure desesperation to win and it's safe to assume that his ideal vessel was even stronger.

Though, the fact that he went from getting stomped by a non Prime AM Mel to put a similar performance to Ban and King against the DK is massively bullshit and that's undeniable.

 

[Jdmp53]

Honestly..After re-reading those chapters i don't think The One Ultimate is stronger than The One..It's just made to last a little longer....

The reason i think Zel was able to hold his own for a little while against The One was due to his ON..and i think we can agree that Ability trumps PL in most cases ..like Merlin who was stated to have 4700 and was never given any sort of PU can clearly over power Higher opponents due to her "INFINITY" , "THE RULER" against which if Higher lvl Attacks are made is simply negated , "COMBO STAR" - absolutely no limit to the o/p despite having a lower PL and more..

As much as i love this series and the characters , the one of the fault in nakaba's writing which i can't solve using headcanon has been Escanor's The One Ultimate ...which should never have happened..he should've used The One to hold the DK using an arm-lock or something then having the sins attack him would've added the "He finally sought help from others" development to his character and just going into The One form again would've sufficed for him to die early and not just burn his life-force which he didn't have much left on top of him being just a human..

The other Instance is that of retconning of AM's first appearance which sadly also had to revolve around escanor.Chps 327, 327.5 , 328 was nakaba's worst writing according to me.

I am not hating on escanor, just the writing which involved him in the last arc .

 

[Shadowlord123]

Honestly..After re-reading those chapters i don't think The One Ultimate is stronger than The One..It's just made to last a little longer....

Wat? How is The One Ultimate not stronger than The One? Literally everything suggests it. From his name to his appearance and feats. What makes you think that? Just curious.

I pretty much agree with the rest of your post.

 

[Jdmp53]

Wat? How is The One Ultimate not stronger than The One? Literally everything suggests it. From his name to his appearance and feats. What makes you think that? Just curious.

I pretty much agree with the rest of your post.

Feats wise i don't think there is..He took some blows from DK..Which he already could while being in The One..He manages to punch DK to a distance which i'm sure would've been possible by The One (if he had hit him from the side and not from above like he did in a panel) Even his Cruel Sun doesn't even one tentacle of the DK possessed britannia. (fired from death zero) if pre noon escanor's Cruel sun can Evaporate a lake , If he is Dk lvl or atleast close to it , it should've been able to destroy at least a tentacle of rock right ?.
Only thing i think suggests he is just a bit stronger is that he grew in size . If the Sun grace is not shown in manga before it ends..i think i would like to believe that Escanor just didn't use up his lifeforce but the grace as well , which then would make sense for the PU in the least.

 

[Shadowlord123]

Feats wise i don't think there is..He took some blows from DK..Which he already could while being in The One..He manages to punch DK to a distance which i'm sure would've been possible by The One (if he had hit him from the side and not from above like he did in a panel) Even his Cruel Sun doesn't even one tentacle of the DK possessed britannia. (fired from death zero) if pre noon escanor's Cruel sun can Evaporate a lake , If he is Dk lvl or atleast close to it , it should've been able to destroy at least a tentacle of rock right ?.
Only thing i think suggests he is just a bit stronger is that he grew in size . If the Sun grace is not shown in manga before it ends..i think i would like to believe that Escanor just didn't use up his lifeforce but the grace as well , which then would make sense for the PU in the least.

The way he did it was different. The One was taking hits from the DK, hits that were doing a good deal of damage, he even was sent flying. When he was in The One Ultimate the DK's hits barely made him flinch, it was clear as day (no pun intended) that he got way stronger physically. The same DK that equalled him in the One was getting clearly overwhelmed with the One Ultimate and was forced to start using magic. The fact that he looks bigger and bulkier is another proof of that he got considerably stronger physically.

Just because his Cruel Sun doesn't look bigger and as impressive doesn't mean that he didn't get stronger. 114K Escanor's Cruel Sun looked bigger and more impressive than the one fired with The One Ultimate and I'm sure the two of us know who is massively stronger. Since he's like 90% physical strength, it isn't out of the equation to think that what increased the most by far was only physical strength and magic didn't increase much. The thing is: the DK is clearly stronger than Escanor while possessing Britannia, so it makes sense that his Cruel Sun doesn't do that much damage on him (plus The Ruler should have negated all the effects since it's a magic based attack).

There are three things which strongly support the notion that he was stronger. The first one being the name (The One and The One Ultimate), I don't think I have to explain much here. Why would Nakaba give a stronger name to a form that isn't stronger? The second point is his appearance, he looks taller, more muscular and there's way more heat surrounding his body. The third, final and most important point is the fact that he was overwhelming the DK physically and forced him to get serious, something that the One clearly couldn't do.

I think you shouldn't scratch your head too much. The vast majority of the PU of this manga barely make sense. Diane forced the DK out of the lake when her PL shouldn't have been more than 50K. Merlin scratched the DK with a pretty casual spell, even though she barely scratched the Masters using the best of her tricks. Gowther got like 10 times stronger just because he recovered some memories. I could go on but the point is that sometimes the main characters get massively stronger with no reason at all, and even when there's one, it barely makes sense at all most of the time. It's just bad writing really.

 

[Ema919]

I mean, even assuming the notion that every Grace is 12,5 % of the SD's power is true, Sun is clearly very different from the other Graces. The power of this Grace fluctuates with time (or more accurately the position of the Sun, which is another energy source that doesn't depend entirely on the SD), unlike the other ones which maintain static. The way I see it the other three Graces' power output is always 12,5%, but Sun doesn't work like this. At night the Grace is completely inactive, so it's safe to assume that the power ouput is 0%. From this logic, the power output of Sun should be greater than that of any other Grace during the day to balance this massive downside it has. Again, from my perspective:

- Sun (Night): 0%
- Flash/Ocean/Tornado/Sun (Dawn-Morning): 12,5%
- Sun (Late Morning/Near Noon): Around 25%
- Sun (Noon): Near 50% (only lasts one minute)

If we look at it like this, it doesn't seem that BS that The One can seemingly stand up with a casual 50% DK without being insta fodderized. The problem is that Nakaba never goes deep with anything and leaves the important explanations for the reader's imagination. He could have said this and that The One mode was the same for every user, independently of his base strength. For me, this would have been a pretty decent explanation to all of this, but again, he choose not to do it.

And again, this is probably an exaggeration. Even with The One + burning his life force as The Ultimate One, Escanor is clearly below 50% DK Zel (assuming he was at half of his power). He is above him physically, that's undeniable, but magic wise the DK takes a shit on him. Overall the DK is much better. Escanor was unable to get out of Death Zero on his own and wasn't doing much damage to the DK, who at that point possessed Britannia out of pure desesperation to win and it's safe to assume that his ideal vessel was even stronger.

Though, the fact that he went from getting stomped by a non Prime AM Mel to put a similar performance to Ban and King against the DK is massively bullshit and that's undeniable.

Maybe because of the ruler , but generally Escanor should be superior magic wise too since his magic attacks have always been at least on par with his physical ones feats wise ( his attack vs gloxinia and drole, his whole fight vs estarossa).

 

[OtakuFreak]

I mean, even assuming the notion that every Grace is 12,5 % of the SD's power is true, Sun is clearly very different from the other Graces. The power of this Grace fluctuates with time (or more accurately the position of the Sun, which is another energy source that doesn't depend entirely on the SD), unlike the other ones which maintain static. The way I see it the other three Graces' power output is always 12,5%, but Sun doesn't work like this. At night the Grace is completely inactive, so it's safe to assume that the power output is 0%. From this logic, the power output of Sun should be greater than that of any other Grace during the day to balance this massive downside it has. Again, from my perspective:

I think the Graces are all equally the same proportion of the Supreme Deity's power, but the sun grace itself is different in nature and may exhibit more power. In other words, perhaps the 12.5% of the grace can only be exhibited by Tornado/Ocean/Flash when they're absorbed, whereas the sun grace is exhibited when not absorbed.

I'm not sure, but I agree with how the output isn't always 12.5%.

- Sun (Night): 0%
- Flash/Ocean/Tornado/Sun (Dawn-Morning): 12,5%
- Sun (Late Morning/Near Noon): Around 25%
- Sun (Noon): Near 50% (only lasts one minute)

This would break the entire manga. If the sun grace gave, a mere fodder human enough power to equal one of the Gods for a minute, then Mael would outright surpass them. In fact, the Goddesses would outright dominate the balance of power since they essentially have 2 Gods on their side. Even if it wasn't noon, Mael near 12:00 would just outright solo the demons unless the Demon King intervened (but that is where the Supreme Deity comes into this equation).

If the sun grace makes you a literal deity, then there is no excuse as to why there was even a power balance between the Goddesses & Demons. For one grace to have 50% of the SD's power, it implies she gave an entire half of her original strength to this one grace, but then the other three exist.

If we look at it like this, it doesn't seem that BS that The One can seemingly stand up with a casual 50% DK without being insta fodderized. The problem is that Nakaba never goes deep with anything and leaves the important explanations for the reader's imagination. He could have said this and that The One mode was the same for every user, independently of his base strength. For me, this would have been a pretty decent explanation to all of this, but again, he choose not to do it.

Your explanation might make the whole ''one minute to equal a deity'' with the sun grace plausible, but then it breaks another part of the story. As you said, Nakaba has given no explanation as to how much power the sun grace can actually pull at 12:00 PM. Instead, we just get a vague explanation that it came from the Supreme Deity, so that's enough to explain why Escanor can handle against her rival, right?

He probably will not even explain why this is the case. I don't think he can without breaking the manga.

And again, this is probably an exaggeration. Even with The One + burning his life force as The Ultimate One, Escanor is clearly below 50% DK Zel (assuming he was at half of his power). He is above him physically, that's undeniable, but magic wise the DK takes a shit on him. Overall the DK is much better. Escanor was unable to get out of Death Zero on his own and wasn't doing much damage to the DK, who at that point possessed Britannia out of pure desesperation to win and it's safe to assume that his ideal vessel was even stronger.

I do not even think Escanor is equal to the Demon King, but just on a comparable level. If it wasn't for Nakaba's atrocious writing, the Demon King could've just summoned the night and ended the fight in 5 seconds.

In fact, the writing is that atrocious that the Demon King is supposedly defeated without Meliodas even breaking a sweat. If this reflected reality and not Nakaba's perversion to wank Meliodas, the Demon King would fodderize everyone (including Meliodas) in a matter of minutes and would force his son to use his god-form to actually fight him.

And even then, if Meliodas would win, it would be with high-max difficulty.

Bringing back the Demon King again through Zeldris wasn't a bad idea, it was just how Nakaba couldn't execute it without fucking it up. A battle between two demon king's sounds great tbh, if it was done right.

Though, the fact that he went from getting stomped by a non Prime AM Mel to put a similar performance to Ban and King against the DK is massively bullshit and that's undeniable.

In reality, there is no power scale in this manga. Nakaba just makes the characters as weak or powerful as they need to be.

Meliodas needs to be defeated? Escanor is suddenly stronger.

Escanor needs to be defeated in his backstory? Meliodas is suddenly stronger.

1. Are they really parts of SD's own existence Just like how the commandments were?

I assume they are, given how Ludoshel compared them to commandments and essentially said they were two sides of a coin.

2. Are they collectively equal to 50% of SD's total power? If the sum is lesser or greater, the 12.5 becomes nonsense.

The Supreme Deity must've given away half of her original power in the graces, otherwise the whole plot point of her being equal to the Demon King was a lie and essentially breaks the story.

3. Are they all have the same share of SD's power in case the previous assumptions are true?

If the sun grace was to hold a significantly larger proportion of the Supreme Deity's power, than the other graces, then just like how I said above to @Shadowlord123 - this doesn't solve anything and just creates more issues.

 

[Aurelius]

In reality, there is no power scale in this manga. Nakaba just makes the characters as weak or powerful as they need to be.

Meliodas needs to be defeated? Escanor is suddenly stronger.

Escanor needs to be defeated in his backstory? Meliodas is suddenly stronger.

This statement is accurate af. Nakaba fucked everything up. Which is why I think it's pointless to compare power levels or debate who's stronger, when Nakaba himself is so inconsistent

 

[Shadowlord123]

This would break the entire manga. If the sun grace gave, a mere fodder human enough power to equal one of the Gods for a minute, then Mael would outright surpass them. In fact, the Goddesses would outright dominate the balance of power since they essentially have 2 Gods on their side. Even if it wasn't noon, Mael near 12:00 would just outright solo the demons unless the Demon King intervened (but that is where the Supreme Deity comes into this equation).

If the sun grace makes you a literal deity, then there is no excuse as to why there was even a power balance between the Goddesses & Demons. For one grace to have 50% of the SD's power, it implies she gave an entire half of her original strength to this one grace, but then the other three exist.

Not really, since Nakaba could made The One equal for every user of the Grace, independently of the user's base strength like I said and Near Noon he would be much weaker than that (maybe Prime AM Mel wouldn't be that far from that)

Again, the user might have a power near to that of a deity (near is the word, they shouldn't be on their level still), but that power only lasts for one minute. Not to mention the demons have Indura transformations, which are capable of making 50K characters (far from being the strongests demons) capable of overwhelming 3 of the 4 AA. Yeah, they weren't trying their best most likely, but it still shows how big of a power-up actually is. Can you imagine someone like Zeldris or Meliodas actually going Indura? Of course they wouldn't since it would cost them the sanity, but still, it's a card they can play in desperate situations. Not to mention, the multiple Induras of Favor that roam in the Demon World.

Overall, it still seems pretty equal to me. Sar and Tar take care of the 10C, Ludo takes care of Zeldris, Eli takes care of The Sinner and Mael takes care of Mel. In the night Mel is stronger and in the day (specially Near-Noon) Mael holds the advantage. In one minute, Mael has power near to that of a deity, but the demons have Induras of Favor that obviously aren't on the level, but can be used to stall. One minute is really little time. Overall, everything seems pretty equal, more so considering how little top dogs the GC has in comparison to the DC.

Besides, like I said, Sun is the only Grace that doesn't entirely depend on the SD, it also depends on the position of the Sun as its energy source. Given that, and the fact that it has a massive downside, it isn't too far-fetched to think that in only one minute the user can have a power that isn't too far from that of the Gods at 50% (since like I said, the power doesn't entirely depend on the SD, unlike the other Graces).

And lastly, I would like to point out that the top dogs of each clan fighting against each other was very rare during the war. The battlefields were massive and most likely they barely encountered each other, so the probability of Mael only slaying fodder demons at Noon was pretty high. The fact that Ludo and Zeldris met in person for the first time during the second Holy War should be proof enough of that.

I do not even think Escanor is equal to the Demon King, but just on a comparable level. If it wasn't for Nakaba's atrocious writing, the Demon King could've just summoned the night and ended the fight in 5 seconds.

In fact, the writing is that atrocious that the Demon King is supposedly defeated without Meliodas even breaking a sweat. If this reflected reality and not Nakaba's perversion to wank Meliodas, the Demon King would fodderize everyone (including Meliodas) in a matter of minutes and would force his son to use his god-form to actually fight him.

And even then, if Meliodas would win, it would be with high-max difficulty.

Bringing back the Demon King again through Zeldris wasn't a bad idea, it was just how Nakaba couldn't execute it without fucking it up. A battle between two demon king's sounds great tbh, if it was done right.

Pretty much agree with everything, the DK was nerfed horribly. No curses, no commandment abilities, his magic arsenal got fucked up badly and most of the time he was just swinging his sword. Not what you would expect from someone who was more hyped for his magical abilities rather than his physical ones before he appeared.

Meliodas not even using his God form once to fight was dumb as hell too. The excuse is that he was afraid of destroying Zel's body, but isn't he supposed to be equal to the DK with that power or at least in a comparable field? If they were really equals or comparable, Mel shouldn't have been that afraid. It almost gave the impression that with that power Mel could have beaten his Father with relative ease, which is pretty bad in itself considering how even now we don't know anything about that magic. We don't know why he was afraid of using it, and we don't even know what it is, what it does, what uses can have for battle. Nothing, absolutely nothing. Nakaba pretty much broke the main plot of the series just for that magic and he doesn't even bother to explain anything about it and just makes it disappear as fast as it appeared.

I'm not against the idea of making a Sins vs DK fight. The concept was pretty cool but it was executed horribly. The DK was almost getting clowned at every single page he appeared and the battle in itself (a battle that was portrayed as a one to decide the fate of the world) was a massive joke. The fact that some characters were talking about marrying in the middle of the battle is the best example.

In reality, there is no power scale in this manga. Nakaba just makes the characters as weak or powerful as they need to be.

Meliodas needs to be defeated? Escanor is suddenly stronger.

Escanor needs to be defeated in his backstory? Meliodas is suddenly stronger.

You know, that's pretty damn true. Few days ago, as you know, I posted a comment in which I said that Eli was as strong as the author needed her to be, but in reality this happens with a lot of characters.

Maybe because of the ruler , but generally Escanor should be superior magic wise too since his magic attacks have always been at least on par with his physical ones feats wise ( his attack vs gloxinia and drole, his whole fight vs estarossa).

Nah, Escanor is nowhere near the DK when it comes to magic. One is a God that created a lot of powerful curses like the Ten Commandments and apparently has knowledge of all the Dark arts of the Demon World. The other is a human who just has a power that comes from a deity on the same level as the DK.

I'll give you an example from the manga still, to show how weak Escanor's magic stat is compared to his strength. Back then, when he fought Estarossa, he was around 50-60K since he could put up a fight with him (it couldn't have been way more or less than that). We know Escanor was stronger physically, so that means that out of 55-60K he had, he needed to have more than 53K (that was Esta's strength stat) in strength alone. Esta's magical stat was 3K and he was magically stronger than Escanor as his darkness engulled his sun (which means Escanor had to have less than 3K when it came to magic). The difference is pretty massive as you can see and even though the numbers are kinda headcanon as we don't know the exact PL he had at that time, like I said, it couldn't have been too far from this, otherwise it wouldn't have been a fight.

How exactly can Escanor's magic be as effective as his strength, despite the difference in numbers being so massive it's still a mystery to me though. Nakaba has never been too concise (as I said in my previous posts) with what he writes, so idk.

 

[Ema919]

Nah, Escanor is nowhere near the DK when it comes to magic. One is a God that created a lot of powerful curses like the Ten Commandments and apparently has knowledge of all the Dark arts of the Demon World. The other is a human who just has a power that comes from a deity on the same level as the DK.

I'll give you an example from the manga still, to show how weak Escanor's magic stat is compared to his strength. Back then, when he fought Estarossa, he was around 50-60K since he could put up a fight with him (it couldn't have been way more or less than that). We know Escanor was stronger physically, so that means that out of 55-60K he had, he needed to have more than 53K (that was Esta's strength stat) in strength alone. Esta's magical stat was 3K and he was magically stronger than Escanor as his darkness engulled his sun (which means Escanor had to have less than 3K when it came to magic). The difference is pretty massive as you can see and even though the numbers are kinda headcanon as we don't know the exact PL he had at that time, like I said, it couldn't have been too far from this, otherwise it wouldn't have been a fight.

How exactly can Escanor's magic be as effective as his strength, despite the difference in numbers being so massive it's still a mystery to me though. Nakaba has never been too concise (as I said in my previous posts) with what he writes, so idk.

While true, Estarossa stated that if he hadn't released his darkness the first sun attack would've been fatal. That means that Escanor, while having a similar PL to Estarossa could potentially oneshot him with a magic attack.

It's clear that the DK is more versatile in the use of his magic, however the point is that Escanor in a magic clash could come on top of the Demon King through raw attack potency, which is certainly possible since as I stated Escanor's magical feats have consistently been as impressive as his physical ones. It just didn't really get shown in the manga since the majority of his fights were against people immune to magic ( Meliodas, Zeldris, DK), but whenever he had the chance he consistently performed fantastically magic wise.

 

[Shadowlord123]

While true, Estarossa stated that if he hadn't released his darkness the first sun attack would've been fatal. That means that Escanor, while having a similar PL to Estarossa could potentially oneshot him with a magic attack.

It's clear that the DK is more versatile in the use of his magic, however the point is that Escanor in a magic clash could come on top of the Demon King through raw attack potency, which is certainly possible since as I stated Escanor's magical feats have consistently been as impressive as his physical ones. It just didn't really get shown in the manga since the majority of his fights were against people immune to magic ( Meliodas, Zeldris, DK), but whenever he had the chance he consistently performed fantastically magic wise.

I get your point, but if Escanor was stronger than the DK not only in physical strength but also in magic, he would be stronger than him, which is clearly not the case as in a weaker vessel (Britannia) Escanor was unable to get out of Death Zero and his attacks weren't that effective at all.

Esta's darkness engulled Escanor's Cruel Sun. He engulled all of it because his magic stat was higher. If the DK and Escanor's magic were about to clash, DK would clearly be the winner, no doubts about it, because his magic stat is in all likelihood far above Escanor's, and it makes a lot of sense to be like this.

 

[Ema919]

I get your point, but if Escanor was stronger than the DK not only in physical strength but also in magic, he would be stronger than him, which is clearly not the case as in a weaker vessel (Britannia) Escanor was unable to get out of Death Zero and his attacks weren't that effective at all.

Esta's darkness engulled Escanor's Cruel Sun. He engulled all of it because his magic stat was higher. If the DK and Escanor's magic were about to clash, DK would clearly be the winner, no doubts about it, because his magic stat is in all likelihood far above Escanor's, and it makes a lot of sense to be like this.

Escanor was the only one that seemed to be not really affected by Death Zero, even at that point he mocked the DK and he thrown an attack without many issues. I'm sure he would've been able to get out of that even without Merlin's help.

I'm not sure how Estarossa's magic surpassing Escanor's proves that the latter couldn't beat the DK in a magic clash while being in the One Ultimate. Estarossa was physically on par-superior to Escanor physically ( he could get some really good hits ) at that point in time so it's not really weird that he could seal escanor's magic too. But then Escanor got much stronger and his magic became much superior. The point is Escanor's magic and strength increase proportionally in the same way, he was able to send Estarossa into a long coma and seemingly knock zeldris out too with his cruel sun. Versus the demon king he was so much stronger physically it wasn't even funny, it isn't far fetched to think he could beat him magically too.

 

[Jdmp53]

Escanor was the only one that seemed to be not really affected by Death Zero, even at that point he mocked the DK and he thrown an attack without many issues.

Ban Attacked as well... doesn't mean ban is above DK

he was able to send Estarossa into a long coma and seemingly knock zeldris out too with his cruel sun.

we later find out he wasn't a true top class demon who unlike his False brothers didn't heal very fast. Zel lost consciousness for just a sec ..that's not great of a feat.

Versus the demon king he was so much stronger physically it wasn't even funny,

He wasn't ...DK against The One Landed more hits than The One..and The One Ultimate oly landed one blow which pushed DK to a distance...that is not a huge difference. DK got pissed later because he thought that fight would only last one minute.and he didn't want to involve physically more than that

 

[Shadowlord123]

Escanor was the only one that seemed to be not really affected by Death Zero, even at that point he mocked the DK and he thrown an attack without many issues. I'm sure he would've been able to get out of that even without Merlin's help.

I'm not sure how Estarossa's magic surpassing Escanor's proves that the latter couldn't beat the DK in a magic clash while being in the One Ultimate. Estarossa was physically on par-superior to Escanor physically ( he could get some really good hits ) at that point in time so it's not really weird that he could seal escanor's magic too. But then Escanor got much stronger and his magic became much superior. The point is Escanor's magic and strength increase proportionally in the same way, he was able to send Estarossa into a long coma and seemingly knock zeldris out too with his cruel sun. Versus the demon king he was so much stronger physically it wasn't even funny, it isn't far fetched to think he could beat him magically too.

If Merlin had to use a spell like Limit Break to get out of Death Zero that to me implies one of these two things: either they couldn't have escaped without using that spell or even if they could it wouldn't have been easy at all, and that's talking to all the Sins, not only Escanor.

Yeah, he mocked him saying that he crushed mountains as big as him for breakfast, launched an attack to him along with Ban and did next to no damage. Escanor was just being prideful, not a big surprise really.

Escanor was outright physically superior to Estarossa even before the 114K boost he got at the end of the battle. He took all of his hits head on and got up really fast, whereas Estarossa was kissing the ground from only one punch that he blocked. The difference in physical strength was there (even if it wasn't much), which is why he was forced to use his physical Full Counter in the first place. Even though his Cruel Sun did a lot of damage to him like you say, Esta still was able to engulf that same Sun with his darkness. Why? Because his magic stat was simply higher. That was the point of my post. Unless you want to argue that Escanor's magic stat is higher than the DK, despite me already having proved that the vast majority of his power comes from his physical strength, feel free, but I don't think so.

Remember the panel on which the DK created a magical beast from his sword? It took Escanor's Cruel Sun + all the combined efforts of the other Sins to destroy it. You can argue that maybe all of the Sins weren't needed to destroy that monster, but I'm pretty sure that the last thing Nakaba wanted to imply in that panel is that Escanor was magically stronger than the DK.

And again, Escanor not only being physically stronger, but also magically would mean that he's stronger than the DK and I don't think this is the case. Even with the massive PIS that fight had (on the DK's side specially), it still was made blatantly clear that none of the Sins would have stood a chance of defeating the DK on their own (with the exception of Mel using his OG Magic, ofc). The fact that all the Sins stepped in as soon as the DK started to use magic, the fact that it took all the combined techniques of the Sins to destroy the magical beast created by the DK and the fact that he was unable to escape from Death Zero on his own and his attacks weren't that effective to a weaker vessel (Britannia) is, in my humble opinion, proof enough that Escanor was weaker than the DK, even in the One Ultimate. DK just got initially overwhelmed against the One Ultimate because he was toying around really, he even said that after being knocked away that playtime was over.