Evolution of power hexagram

[Phantron]

And even if he were to destroy it, Netero would just project it again.

I'd assume it wears Netero out even faster if you destroy the statue compared to just reconfigure the statue to a different form (which still tires him out). For example, Morel's smoke soldiers seem to require additional upkeep because we see that he's strained just keeping them around Yupi even though all they're doing is getting smashed to pieces. Pufu remarked that he didn't think Pitou's opponent was so tough that she can't maintain the puppets when he was surveying the palace. On the other hand, some remote control objects literally seem like all you need to do is pay a one time upfront cost and then you don't have to worry about them anymore. I guess it's a property of how complicated/powerful the remote object is.

 

[kkck]

The statue isn't immune to attack. The second time Netero tried to use it you see the statue try to squash Meruem with two hands and Meruem simply ripped it apart to counter the attack. In the actual fight, Meruem chose not to destroy the object because he wanted to make Netero submit so he can't just use brute force to beat the technique. I mean, Netero wasn't exactly shocked that Zero Hand effectively did no damage to Meruem. He knows there's a huge physical difference between the two and so does Meruem. So if Meruem countered his technique with brute force, that's not enough to get him to submit. He has to counter Netero's technique with another technique because it's a given that he's more than strong enough to counter the move by brute force. That's why Meruem talks about how making him submit is like playing without Shogi while down 3 pieces, because he can't just beat him using his normal method (overwhelmingly brute strength) that he'd use if this was a fight to the death.

That said, Royal Guards and Meruem are nothing like the human opponent Netero is used to fight. One would assume a human opponent cannot just trivially destroy the statue, nor can they just simply shrug off a hit like it's nothing so these weaknesses aren't easily exploitable against a human.

I do't remember meruem ever harming the statue. IIRC meruem took an attack but simply ignored it, he never ripped an arm from it. If he really could harm the state then I don't see why he would have had so much trouble with it, he could have simply broken through. Meruem couldn't kill netero however he could indeed harm him, such as when he mutilated him. I am also not sure of how easy it is to remake a nen construct that was destroyed. Shouldn't that have an strong effect on the nen user? Goreinu was basically incapacitated from that. Of course, netero could be more resilient but such a thing could take a toll on him as well.

 

[Phantron]

I do't remember meruem ever harming the statue. IIRC meruem took an attack but simply ignored it, he never ripped an arm from it. If he really could harm the state then I don't see why he would have had so much trouble with it, he could have simply broken through. Meruem couldn't kill netero however he could indeed harm him, such as when he mutilated him. I am also not sure of how easy it is to remake a nen construct that was destroyed. Shouldn't that have an strong effect on the nen user? Goreinu was basically incapacitated from that. Of course, netero could be more resilient but such a thing could take a toll on him as well.

So far the only aura constructed object that is invulnerable is Potclean so I don't see why the statue would be something that Meruem cannot destroy. Since it was mentioned that Meruem's plan was to force Netero to change modes by attacking from different directions (each statue has a fixed attack pattern) I'm guessing this means the statues are supposed to persist because if they're supposed to disappear after making an attack automatically then Meruem's strategy is totally pointless. But if the statues persist that would make them easy target to destroy and I'd think taking one out must have some effect on the user. Now, Meruem didn't do that because he was trying to beat Meruem's technique with his skill as opposed to just brute force, and he says he didn't want Netero to tire himself out before he find how to beat the technique so I think he'd want to avoid destroying the statues on purpose, which made the fight look closer than it did. In fact, shouldn't the statues be the weakness of Netero's technique? We know it takes a lot out of him to just shift the statue's position and arm position and whatnot, so if it's destroyed you'd think that takes even more out of him? Without such a weakness, how would any human ever beat him? We already know Netero is no longer the disputed #1, so it is at least plausible that someone like Ging can beat him now, and yet the way his Hatsu is portrayed there seems to be no weakness whatsoever.

One explanation I have is that for the final fight against Meruem, Netero was probably fighting at a level close to his prime since he's supposed to go out with a bang, and maybe the point is that when Netero is near his prime, there is no way for another human to beat him. His Hatsu seems completely unfair against any human level opponent but if his power level in that fight is supposed to be near his prime, then that is acceptable because we know no human ever posed a threat to him when he was in his prime.

 

[kkck]

So far the only aura constructed object that is invulnerable is Potclean so I don't see why the statue would be something that Meruem cannot destroy. Since it was mentioned that Meruem's plan was to force Netero to change modes by attacking from different directions (each statue has a fixed attack pattern) I'm guessing this means the statues are supposed to persist because if they're supposed to disappear after making an attack automatically then Meruem's strategy is totally pointless. But if the statues persist that would make them easy target to destroy and I'd think taking one out must have some effect on the user. Now, Meruem didn't do that because he was trying to beat Meruem's technique with his skill as opposed to just brute force, and he says he didn't want Netero to tire himself out before he find how to beat the technique so I think he'd want to avoid destroying the statues on purpose, which made the fight look closer than it did. In fact, shouldn't the statues be the weakness of Netero's technique? We know it takes a lot out of him to just shift the statue's position and arm position and whatnot, so if it's destroyed you'd think that takes even more out of him? Without such a weakness, how would any human ever beat him? We already know Netero is no longer the disputed #1, so it is at least plausible that someone like Ging can beat him now, and yet the way his Hatsu is portrayed there seems to be no weakness whatsoever.

One explanation I have is that for the final fight against Meruem, Netero was probably fighting at a level close to his prime since he's supposed to go out with a bang, and maybe the point is that when Netero is near his prime, there is no way for another human to beat him. His Hatsu seems completely unfair against any human level opponent but if his power level in that fight is supposed to be near his prime, then that is acceptable because we know no human ever posed a threat to him when he was in his prime.

The issue with that is that meruem had no reason or stake in specifically defeating netero's technique. Meruem wanted netero to tell him his name. The only real restraint he had was straight up killing netero which as far as we saw was probably not something meruem could have done if he had wanted to. Other than that meruem simply had to get netero to acknowledge defeat and reveal what he new. Nothing in the manga really evidences meruem having any specific issue with the idea of destroying kannon. With that in mind if meruem did not destroy kannon it is not because he wanted to beat it specifically or anything of the sort, it is simply because he was literally unable to do so. Meruem went with the pattern prediction thing because he had no choices. Otherwise he could have simply targeted the statue and destroyed it as many times as he needed to thus defeating him without killing him.

 

[ShadowHeart]

So far the only aura constructed object that is invulnerable is Potclean so I don't see why the statue would be something that Meruem cannot destroy. Since it was mentioned that Meruem's plan was to force Netero to change modes by attacking from different directions (each statue has a fixed attack pattern) I'm guessing this means the statues are supposed to persist because if they're supposed to disappear after making an attack automatically then Meruem's strategy is totally pointless. But if the statues persist that would make them easy target to destroy and I'd think taking one out must have some effect on the user. Now, Meruem didn't do that because he was trying to beat Meruem's technique with his skill as opposed to just brute force, and he says he didn't want Netero to tire himself out before he find how to beat the technique so I think he'd want to avoid destroying the statues on purpose, which made the fight look closer than it did. In fact, shouldn't the statues be the weakness of Netero's technique? We know it takes a lot out of him to just shift the statue's position and arm position and whatnot, so if it's destroyed you'd think that takes even more out of him? Without such a weakness, how would any human ever beat him? We already know Netero is no longer the disputed #1, so it is at least plausible that someone like Ging can beat him now, and yet the way his Hatsu is portrayed there seems to be no weakness whatsoever.

One explanation I have is that for the final fight against Meruem, Netero was probably fighting at a level close to his prime since he's supposed to go out with a bang, and maybe the point is that when Netero is near his prime, there is no way for another human to beat him. His Hatsu seems completely unfair against any human level opponent but if his power level in that fight is supposed to be near his prime, then that is acceptable because we know no human ever posed a threat to him when he was in his prime.

Not true Maha is implied to be stronger than prime Netero and I bet there were some Serin members not far off him either.

 

[shionoro]

Maha is not implied to be stronger than netero. He is said to have survived a fight against him.
The only scene in which we have seen maha do something was when the zoldyeks assassinated the ten dons.
And there he seemed to be more in a support role because kalluto was taken along. He was probably more of a nanny at this point than one of the zoldyek powerhouses because it might have seemed a bit dangerous to the zoldyeks to ssned kalluto alone with illumi on one of his first jobs when it was quite possible that the ten dons have people with nen as bodyguards.

 

[Demonspeed]

Maha is not implied to be stronger than netero. He is said to have survived a fight against him.
The only scene in which we have seen maha do something was when the zoldyeks assassinated the ten dons.
And there he seemed to be more in a support role because kalluto was taken along. He was probably more of a nanny at this point than one of the zoldyek powerhouses because it might have seemed a bit dangerous to the zoldyeks to ssned kalluto alone with illumi on one of his first jobs when it was quite possible that the ten dons have people with nen as bodyguards.

It's Netero who is said to have survived against Maha, not the opposite, and Zeno precised that Netero is the only of his opponents who fought him and survived. The Dons's best subordinates were the the Shadow Beasts, who had all been killed by the Troupe.

 

[KimCorrea]

It's Netero who is said to have survived against Maha, not the opposite, and Zeno precised that Netero is the only of his opponents who fought him and survived. The Dons's best subordinates were the the Shadow Beasts, who had all been killed by the Troupe.

Which chapter this happened? Pretty please!

 

[Demonspeed]

Which chapter this happened? Pretty please!

Chapter 264.

Spoiler: Image

 

[shionoro]

It's Netero who is said to have survived against Maha, not the opposite, and Zeno precised that Netero is the only of his opponents who fought him and survived. The Dons's best subordinates were the the Shadow Beasts, who had all been killed by the Troupe.

Oh, ya, that's true, it was that way arround.
I still don't think it implies who has won or even at which point in time it happened.
If we take into account that zeno freely admits he is weaker than netero even tho netero is much older let's me suspect that netero is in fact stronger than maha.
It's not Maha who is sent to the most dangerous missions, and even Zeno does a support job for Silva in their fight against Chrollo.
I think it is pretty clear that the guys the zoldyeks send if there is a really dangerous mission is the zeno-Silva tagteam.
Maha must have been very strong at some point when he clashed with netero, but i really don't think maha as he is now would be in the same league.
There even might be anice backstory hidden here: Maybe Netero was actually defeated by Maha and this was the reason for his insane training in hell (after all, he was already of some age when he did that training and not a youth anymore, so their clash has a good chance of having happened before that training).

To the shadow beasts: it is true that the shadow beasts were the nen team of the ten dons, but that didnt hinder them to hire at least some nenbased bodyguards in yorknew.
It is not a stetch to at least give it some probability that they had nen based bodyguards at their meeting.
I don't think the zoldyeks would want to lose a son due to being careless, so sending maha with them would make sense to me. It enable Kalluto to make some first hand experience while being perfectly safe.
It might also have been the zoldyeks wanting maha to evaluate kalluto's skills while illumi focusses on the job.
After all, at some point after this job, Kalluto joined the spiders. i don't think silva would have agreed to that if the zoldyeks didnt deem him ready.

All in all, i cannot see Maha being stronger than zeno or silva at this point, and at least zeno is not as strong as netero by his own account.

 

[Demonspeed]

It doesn't say who is stronger but it implies than Maha is stronger IMO, because Zeno didn't say that Maha lost. He only said that Netero didn't die against him, which is a testament of their strengths, of course you can interpret it as Netero being stronger as well but I think it's unlikely.

Maha is probably retired now, on the chart it even says that he doesn't care about family affairs. I think he is currently the strongest Zoldyck considering what Zeno said but we'll have to see him in action to be sure of it.

 

[Kanmuru]

Netero stated that he NEVER found a worthy opponent in his entire life before the CA incident. So Maha wasn't at his level.
The old man keeps the strongest human tittle so far, until Ging or some guy on the DC shows otherwise

 

[Phantron]

The Chinese version for that scene just says that Netero is the only person who got in a fight with Maha that is still alive, as opposed to 'survived a fight against Maha' which is very different. I always thought that scene was making fun of how both are impossibly old, as in anybody that was a peer at Maha's time would've died from old age by now regardless of how strong Maha was except Netero who was also impossibly old.

It's impossible to tell what was intended here without seeing the original Japanese version but as mentioned above, Netero has never fought an opponent he considered worthy and presumably he must have fought Maha who was definitely in his era. HXH isn't something where you get more powerful as you get older beyond a certain point. It is very clearly dominated by relatively young (in HXH terms) guys with the notable exception of Netero. I'm pretty sure the guy calling Zeno an idiot is Maha, as in Zeno is saying how his grandpa is comparable to Netero and Maha happened to be there to tell him that's clearly not the case.

 

[Demonspeed]

Netero stated that he NEVER found a worthy opponent in his entire life before the CA incident. So Maha wasn't at his level.
The old man keeps the strongest human tittle so far, until Ging or some guy on the DC shows otherwise

That's not what he said. He said he wanted to do his best against an opponent much stronger than him. Even assuming that Maha is stronger, the gap between them can't be that wide.

 

[Kanmuru]

That's not what he said. He said he wanted to do his best against an opponent much stronger than him. Even assuming that Maha is stronger, the gap between them can't be that wide.

So, this is a bad translation?

I think it's pretty clear here, he never found an opponent.

 

[shionoro]

@Demonspeed @kanmaru

I imagine it like this: Netero did acknowledge there were worthy opponents out there who have a shot at beating him now that he is not in his prime anymore.
However, he had responsibilities by now. those guys were not people he could go into an all out fight with, because that would have meant one of them dying.
For example, even if there was, for example, a zodiac as strong as him, the best he could do is spar with them with both of them holding back somewhat.
He would not go all out zero kannon against them.

What he searched for was an opponent who was stronger than him against which he could go all out with all his heart and both life on the line, a good warrior's fight.
That is why he was so thrilled about meruem.

Now, who the people were that netero deemed strong enough to have a shot against him, we do not know

 

[Kanmuru]

That's a good point.
The thing is, Zeno said that Netero always have him crying, IMO you can go almost all out and fight without going for the kill (unless your hatsu is a one-shot kill type of ability) and it'll be obvious who is the strongest. Zeno also knows about Hyakushiki Kannon, so he probably got slapped in the face a couple of times and he was done with the spare every time.
I don't want to use easy examples but if you read for ex; Knuckle vs Gon or Hisoka Vs Chrollo, it's pretty clear who is the strongest(besides the outcome) combat wise. (not counting chrollo hax skills/genius tactics here)

I don't know if I'm making myself clear xD sorry!

 

[Phantron]

I think there's a translation in that scene where Zeno says they're like acquaintances and then the next statement immediately refutes that. If it's meant to be the same person, then that means Zeno apparently went senile because it's pretty hard to reach the conclusion that you're an equal to someone who always made you cry. The Chinese version uses 'they' instead of 'we', as in Zeno is talking about someone else, e.g., Maha, being Netero's acquaintances, and then someone else, presumably Maha, called him an idiot for suggesting such a thing. Zeno never even saw Netero in his prime. Why would he assume he's even on the same level as him? There's certainly nothing Zeno has done that'd suggest he can be considered as the same level as Netero.

At any rate, if you look at Netero's flashback, he pretty much lets his opponent do whatever they want and he still never had a fight he considered challenging back in his prime, and Maha certainly would be someone he should've fought back in his prime if he was a worthy challenge.

 

[Wisshard]

It doesn't say who is stronger but it implies than Maha is stronger IMO, because Zeno didn't say that Maha lost. He only said that Netero didn't die against him, which is a testament of their strengths, of course you can interpret it as Netero being stronger as well but I think it's unlikely.

The implication of Maha's superiority of some translations doesn't fit in the context though. Zeno was talking about how singular Netero is; his subtle aura, his longevity and his Guanyin Bodhisattva. Comparing him to Maha in combat ability doesn't add anything, since Maha is not established as super-strong, beyond being a Zoldyck; it would only hype Maha, not Netero.

Cnet's translation ("He's the only man alive who has fought with my own grandfather.") makes more sense (and he is one of the most reliable in my experience) as that implies that everyone else who fought Maha either died by his hand... or have since died of age. Which fit perfectly in the context, as Zeno was specifically talking about Netero's exceptional longevity in that panel, and Zeno using Maha, his wizened old grandfather, to emphasize Netero's age makes sense, since the latter is unmistakably a very ancient character.

So, all we can gather from Zeno's comment is that Maha and Netero once fought back in the day, which doesn't tell us much since we don't know when they fought (e.g. Netero reached his peak fairly late in life) nor the result of their fight. But given Netero's desire for worthy opponents, and that he never once mentioned Maha when he reflected upon his quest for martial challenge, I find it highly unlikely that Maha could match or outfight him in his prime, as there's nothing that suggest he could, once you consider the context for the comment above.

 

[Phantron]

Cnet's translation ("He's the only man alive who has fought with my own grandfather.") makes more sense (and he is one of the most reliable in my experience) as that implies that everyone else who fought Maha either died by his hand... or have since died of age. Which fit perfectly in the context, as Zeno was specifically talking about Netero's exceptional longevity in that panel, and Zeno using Maha, his wizened old grandfather, to emphasize Netero's age makes sense, since the latter is unmistakably a very ancient character.

Note that the above statement doesn't mean even Maha needed to win all his fights. He could've been thoroughly spanked fighting a guy his age or older, and that guy simply died from old age by now, and it's still a completely true statement that nobody but Netero has fought Maha and is still alive.