Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Brandish μ]

The super-effectiveness fits the conditions of Wall's immunity, Wall's weakness, and the description of Red Lightning. It's not an open and shut case, but I do think it's a good explanation. From a pure power standpoint (no super-effectiveness), Laxus killing Wall with a strong tech + PoF doesn't seem plausible unless Laxus is vastly above Wall and/or Wall has poor physicals. I don't think that Laxus is much above Wall, and I also think Wall has good physicals, so this re-inforces my support for the super-effectiveness explanation.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Red Lightning may not have the same properties as normal lightning, but it's still lightning regardless. Unless you mean to tell me that Laxus pulled the ability to use a whole different element out of his ass, Wahl's electricity weakness applies to Red Lightning as well.

If something doesn't have the properties that made it stronger against Wahl it's no longer is weakness for Wahl . If fire stops having the ability to burn will it still melt ice? Like the fact I have to say this is shocking.

 

[Boomburst]

If something doesn't have the properties that made it stronger against Wahl it's no longer is weakness for Wahl . If fire stops having the ability to burn will it still melt ice? Like the fact I have to say this is shocking.

False equivalence. What about Red Lightning makes you assume that it lost the properties that made electricity strong against Wahl?
Do you even understand how his immunity works?

 

[Nemispelled]

I think that "weakness" is overrated here.

Guys, whenever a character loses, you can't blame it on weaknesses.

The only known actual weakness in FT is Slaying magic. This was proven by Acnologia for the Dragons, Gray for the Demons, and Chelia for the Gods.

Elemental weakness doesn't apply in FT. Otherwise:

- Juvia should be able to oneshot Natsu

- Juvia should have died in Battle of Fairy Tail Arc when she used her water body to hit one of Laxus' lightning palace orbs

- Gajeel should have died when he was struck by lightning from Laxus


And by the way, Gajeel has taken shots of lightning from Laxus several times in the past in his metal form.

So no, Laxus and Wahl are really no different from the rest. There is no excuse.


Laxus beat Wahl because:

1.) Laxus is above mid-tier Spriggan level like Wahl

2.) Wahl has great offense, but lacks a bit in his defense


It's as simple as that......

Long story short, you guys can't keep blaming characters' wins and losses on weaknesses.

That's just absurd......

 

[Crimson Ice]

False equivalence. What about Red Lightning makes you assume that it lost the properties that made electricity strong against Wahl?
Do you even understand how his immunity works?

The fact it changed so much Wahl himself couldn't even identify it as lightning. And yes, I know how an immunity works, don't try and be smug.

 

[Boomburst]

The fact it changed so much Wahl himself couldn't even identify it as lightning. And yes, I know how an immunity works, don't try and be smug.

You're missing the point. Red Lightning is in fact different than regular lightning. But what makes you think that it lost the properties that made electricity effective against Wahl? No one is denying that the properties of Red Lightning do differ from the properties of regular lightning. But until you can prove that the properties that changed include the properties that makes electricity effective, you're fighting a losing battle.

I asked you if you knew how Wahl's immunity works because it seems like you don't. Wahl is only immune to electricity that he is able to convert to power. If any property of the electricity is changed so that Wahl, for whatever reason, becomes unable to convert it, it bypasses his immunity and it remains super effective. If every property had to be changed then it wouldn't even be electricity anymore.

 

[Crimson Ice]

You're missing the point. Red Lightning is in fact different than regular lightning. But what makes you think that it lost the properties that made electricity effective against Wahl? No one is denying that the properties of Red Lightning do differ from the properties of regular lightning. But until you can prove that the properties that changed include the properties that makes electricity effective, you're fighting a losing battle.

I asked you if you knew how Wahl's immunity works because it seems like you don't. Wahl is only immune to electricity that he is able to convert to power. If any property of the electricity is changed so that Wahl, for whatever reason, becomes unable to convert it, it bypasses his immunity and it remains super effective. If every property had to be changed then it wouldn't even be electricity anymore.

Pretty much saying it lost it;s main properties peirod. the reason why electricity is good against machines is because it's a conductor which is one of it's main properties. If something was changed to the point of you not going to be able to recognize it's lost it main properties. I'm fighting a losing battle when you came in and challenged me?


You asked me if I knew how is immunity worked and I said yes? I know how it works and SOMEONE POSTED THE SCANS A COUPLE OF PAGES AGO. I know how is fucking immunity works. Red Lighting is MERCURY FULMINATE, it's properties were changed the to point so much is couldn't even be considered lightning to Wahl.

 

[Boomburst]

I think that "weakness" is overrated here.

Guys, whenever a character loses, you can't blame it on weaknesses.

The only known actual weakness in FT is Slaying magic. This was proven by Acnologia for the Dragons, Gray for the Demons, and Chelia for the Gods.

Elemental weakness doesn't apply in FT. Otherwise:

- Juvia should be able to oneshot Natsu

- Juvia should have died in Battle of Fairy Tail Arc when she used her water body to hit one of Laxus' lightning palace orbs

- Gajeel should have died when he was struck by lightning from Laxus


And by the way, Gajeel has taken shots of lightning from Laxus several times in the past in his metal form.

So no, Laxus and Wahl are really no different from the rest. There is no excuse.


Laxus beat Wahl because:

1.) Laxus is above mid-tier Spriggan level like Wahl

2.) Wahl has great offense, but lacks a bit in his defense


It's as simple as that......

Long story short, you guys can't keep blaming characters' wins and losses on weaknesses.

That's just absurd......

Come on man, some of the things you just said are absurd as well.

Juvia oneshotting Natsu: This doesn't make sense in the slightest. Is Natsu made of fire? No. So why on earth would elemental advantage play a role here?

Juvia dying from Laxus' lightning palace orbs: Didn't Laxus use Body Link Magic or whatever on the orbs? Why do you assume that the damage dealt by the orbs was electrical? Feel free to correct me on this point, I haven't read that far back in a while.

Gajeel dying from electricity: Again, doesn't make sense. For starters, Gajeel's body doesn't become completely solid metal. I'm pretty sure either only parts of him change or his skin becomes metal. Secondly, what makes you assume that electricity is super effective against metal?

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 25, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 25, 2016 ---

Pretty much saying it lost it;s main properties peirod. the reason why electricity is good against machines is because it's a conductor which is one of it's main properties. If something was changed to the point of you not going to be able to recognize it's lost it main properties. I'm fighting a losing battle when you came in and challenged me?


You asked me if I knew how is immunity worked and I said yes? I know how it works and SOMEONE POSTED THE SCANS A COUPLE OF PAGES AGO. I know how is fucking immunity works. Red Lighting is MERCURY FULMINATE, it's properties were changed the to point so much is couldn't even be considered lightning to Wahl.

Where did Wahl say it wasn't lightning anymore? I thought he just said he couldn't analyze it.

So what are you saying? Are you saying that Laxus gained the ability to use a completely different element from out of nowhere?

 

[Nemispelled]

Come on man, some of the things you just said are absurd as well.

Juvia oneshotting Natsu: This doesn't make sense in the slightest. Is Natsu made of fire? No. So why on earth would elemental advantage play a role here?

Juvia dying from Laxus' lightning palace orbs: Didn't Laxus use Body Link Magic or whatever on the orbs? Why do you assume that the damage dealt by the orbs was electrical? Feel free to correct me on this point, I haven't read that far back in a while.

Gajeel dying from electricity: Again, doesn't make sense. For starters, Gajeel's body doesn't become completely solid metal. I'm pretty sure either only parts of him change or his skin becomes metal. Secondly, what makes you assume that electricity is super effective against metal?

I don't see anything absurd unless you are in denial.


Juvia oneshotting Natsu is absurd because weaknesses in Fairy Tail isn't an excuse when you lose in a battle.

Natsu uses fire magic, so in theory, if Juvia turns into her water body, Natsu can never damage Juvia.

That is why I said what I said.


I don't see what you don't understand about Juvia dying from Laxus' lightning palace orbs...

The orbs use body link magic, but it does not reflect your magic back at you...

The way it works is, depending on how hard you hit it, it will produce an equal amount of electricity back at you.

So when Juvia went full water body and slammed herself as hard as she could against the orb, it produced bolts of lightning which shocked her body.

But she didn't die like Wahl.


Metal conducts electricity...

Gajeel turning himself into a conductor of electricity is the definition of super-effectiveness...

Gajeel's lungs are made of metal, so yeah, don't tell me that his body is not made of metal. That's how he has survived against MBPs and poison...

Even so, him being a conductor of electricity is already a weakness because he is allowing lightning to shock all of his human nerves.

I don't see what you don't get here.


Wahl being a machina is actually an advantage because:

1.) He has developed an immunity system

2.) Machines generally need electricity in order to run properly, if they are not fueled by gas... and Wahl is not fueled by gas...


Lightning should literally charge him up if he knows how to absorb electricity correctly... which he boasts that he does.

 

[The President]

This debate is ridiculous, it truly is.

• Chemically lava is made of the elements silicon, oxygen, aluminum, iron, magnesium, calcium, sodium, potassium, phosphorus, and titanium (plus other elements in very small concentrations.
• Flames consist primarily of carbon dioxide, water vapor, oxygen and nitrogen.

Wahl was normally weak to fire (lightning) but analyzed its properties and became capable of absorbing fire (lightning) because HE KNEW EXACTLY what it was composed of. Then he encounters lava, something that creates the EXACT same stimulus (ie the one that Wahl is weak too) but is composed of different elements that Wahl does not know about, he cannot absorb it because of the existence of said elements and its super effectiveness remains. To say that Red Lightning does not have the same properties that are super effective against Wahl is to say that it is not lightning.

If you got glass that is immune to one type of rock, mix said rock with a bunch of other rocks and its going to break through irregardless.

As for super effectiveness, lightning Vs machinas is likely akin to god slaying vs gods. Maybe they are even worse off since even the faintest of lightning can probably wreck havoc on a robots circuits.

 

[Boomburst]

I don't see anything absurd unless you are in denial.


Juvia oneshotting Natsu is absurd because weaknesses in Fairy Tail isn't an excuse when you lose in a battle.

Natsu uses fire magic, so in theory, if Juvia turns into her water body, Natsu can never damage Juvia.

That is why I said what I said.


I don't see what you don't understand about Juvia dying from Laxus' lightning palace orbs...

The orbs use body link magic, but it does not reflect your magic back at you...

The way it works is, depending on how hard you hit it, it will produce an equal amount of electricity back at you.

So when Juvia went full water body and slammed herself as hard as she could against the orb, it produced bolts of lightning which shocked her body.

But she didn't die like Wahl.


Metal conducts electricity...

Gajeel turning himself into a conductor of electricity is the definition of super-effectiveness...

Gajeel's lungs are made of metal, so yeah, don't tell me that his body is not made of metal. That's how he has survived against MBPs and poison...

Even so, him being a conductor of electricity is already a weakness because he is allowing lightning to shock all of his human nerves.

I don't see what you don't get here.


Wahl being a machina is actually an advantage because:

1.) He has developed an immunity system

2.) Machines generally need electricity in order to run properly, if they are not fueled by gas... and Wahl is not fueled by gas...


Lightning should literally charge him up if he knows how to absorb electricity correctly... which he boasts that he does.

Juvia oneshoting Natsu is absurd but not because of the reason you're suggesting. Again, Natsu may use fire magic but he's not physically made of fire, so water having an advantage over fire means nothing against Natsu's physical body.

Why on earth would you assume that water is immune to fire? Didn't Natsu evaporate an entire lake with his body heat?

Yes I'm well aware how Body Link magic works, that's not what I asked. I asked whether the damage inflicted upon the attacker is electrical, and I don't think we have any proof that it is. Again, I'm quite fuzzy on events that far back, so I could definitely be wrong here.

Gajeel's lungs are metal. So? How does that prove his entire body turning into solid metal?

Machines use electricity to run but that doesn't mean you can just blast lightning at them willy nilly and they'll end up just fine.

 

[Nemispelled]

Juvia oneshoting Natsu is absurd but not because of the reason you're suggesting. Again, Natsu may use fire magic but he's not physically made of fire, so water having an advantage over fire means nothing against Natsu's physical body.

Water having an advantage over fire does mean something against Natsu's physical body because

Juvia can molest Natsu's face by shoving her boobs in his face and suffocating him. Since water is intangible, Natsu can't pry her off. And any fire magic he uses will be blown out the moment his hands grab Juvia's body...

Then Natsu suffocates and dies and Juvia wins...

Good enough for you?

Why on earth would you assume that water is immune to fire? Didn't Natsu evaporate an entire lake with his body heat?

This is what I've been trying to tell you the entire time.

There is NO SUCH THING as weaknesses in Fairy Tail.

You basically just admitted your mistake right there.

Yes I'm well aware how Body Link magic works, that's not what I asked. I asked whether the damage inflicted upon the attacker is electrical, and I don't think we have any proof that it is. Again, I'm quite fuzzy on events that far back, so I could definitely be wrong here.

Really? I just explained that... re-read my post.

I literally said that the damage inflicted upon the attacker is electrical.

I think we have proof, I'll go and find it for ya:

Spoiler

There are two panels of proof. The second panel and the fourth panel.

Gajeel's lungs are metal. So? How does that prove his entire body turning into solid metal?

When Gajeel absorbed Laxus' lightning, he turned his entire arm into iron. His metal arm conducted the electricity which would travel through all of his nerves and then hit his lungs.

If Laxus' electricity hits his lungs, he should have died, but he didn't because weakness is not an excuse.

Machines use electricity to run but that doesn't mean you can just blast lightning at them willy nilly and they'll end up just fine.

Wahl himself boasted he could absorb electricity. There is nothing willy nilly about it.

Wahl's physical body has a better chance of withstanding lightning and electricity than Gajeel.

Machines like electricity... Gajeel's human body and nerves don't.

There is no excuse, Wahl was beaten fair and square... his durability is just not as good as most people paint him to be

 

[Boomburst]

Water having an advantage over fire does mean something against Natsu's physical body because

Juvia can molest Natsu's face by shoving her boobs in his face and suffocating him. Since water is intangible, Natsu can't pry her off. And any fire magic he uses will be blown out the moment his hands grab Juvia's body...

Then Natsu suffocates and dies and Juvia wins...

Good enough for you?

LMAO I needed this, thanks for the laugh man XD

This is what I've been trying to tell you the entire time.

There is NO SUCH THING as weaknesses in Fairy Tail.

You basically just admitted your mistake right there.

Yea no, sorry, this doesn't make sense in the slightest. Natsu's heat evaporated the water. This is not simply manga logic, this is not due to some specific rule of the Fairy Tail universe, this is how it works in real life. Heat has the ability to evaporate water. That's just how it works. The only reason why water is considered to have an advantage over fire is because it takes far more heat to evaporate water than it does for water to put out fire.

Really? I just explained that... re-read my post.

I literally said that the damage inflicted upon the attacker is electrical.

I think we have proof, I'll go and find it for ya:

Spoiler

There are two panels of proof. The second panel and the fourth panel.

Is this proof though? All I see is Juvia getting hit by energy, I see no indication that the energy is electrical.

 

[Arata]

I think that "weakness" is overrated here.

Guys, whenever a character loses, you can't blame it on weaknesses.

The only known actual weakness in FT is Slaying magic. This was proven by Acnologia for the Dragons, Gray for the Demons, and Chelia for the Gods.

Elemental weakness doesn't apply in FT. Otherwise:

- Juvia should be able to oneshot Natsu

- Juvia should have died in Battle of Fairy Tail Arc when she used her water body to hit one of Laxus' lightning palace orbs

- Gajeel should have died when he was struck by lightning from Laxus


And by the way, Gajeel has taken shots of lightning from Laxus several times in the past in his metal form.

So no, Laxus and Wahl are really no different from the rest. There is no excuse.


Laxus beat Wahl because:

1.) Laxus is above mid-tier Spriggan level like Wahl

2.) Wahl has great offense, but lacks a bit in his defense


It's as simple as that......

Long story short, you guys can't keep blaming characters' wins and losses on weaknesses.

That's just absurd......

You're assuming weaknesses work like Pokemon or some other series.
In OP, fire is weak to magma. And there's nothing wrong about it, as different series have different logics.

Laxus and Wahl are really no different from the rest. There is no excuse.

The difference is, he explicitly said he had weakness to electricity while the rest don't mention anything about their weakness. Nuff said.

 

[Nemispelled]

You're assuming weaknesses work like Pokemon or some other series.
In OP, fire is weak to magma. And there's nothing wrong about it, as different series have different logics.

The difference is, he explicitly said he had weakness to electricity while the rest don't mention anything about their weakness. Nuff said.

Yeah, and Fairy Tail has no weaknesses. There is no such thing as weaknesses.

That's where you go wrong.


Wahl saying stuff doesn't matter to me. He said he was immune to lightning and he wasn't.

 

[Arata]

Yeah, and Fairy Tail has no weaknesses. There is no such thing as weaknesses.

That's where you go wrong.


Wahl saying stuff doesn't matter to me. He said he was immune to lightning and he wasn't.

He 's immune to lightning to the best of his knowledge. He hasn't encountered red lightning before, but he can detect his weakness anytime.
And are you seriously trying to prove a guy with the ability to detect weakness, who did say he's weak to electricity, isn't weak to electricity?
I don't know. I just feel it's pointless to argue over such minor stuff.

 

[Nemispelled]

He 's immune to lightning to the best of his knowledge. He hasn't encountered red lightning before, but he can detect his weakness anytime.
And are you seriously trying to prove a guy with the ability to detect weakness, who did say he's weak to electricity, isn't weak to electricity?
I don't know. I just feel it's pointless to argue over such minor stuff.

Lol, and you are telling me this?

I'm not arguing over minor stuff, I'm stating the facts as it is and pulling past examples to prove my point. You guys are just all in denial.

Wahl can detect weaknesses, but weaknesses don't make you lose/win a battle. If you lose, that's your own fault. If you win, congratulations, you earned it.

Weakness being a factor to your loss and win is complete BS in FT.

There is literally no such thing.

If weakness really mattered, Juvia and Gajeel would be dead by now. Laxus has shocked them both several times in the past and both conduct lightning and electricity more than Wahl.

Lightning and electricity may be super-effective to Juvia and Gajeel, but have you seen them get killed by it yet? No.


Being killed from super-effectiveness is really not an excuse unless you are talking about slaying advantages.

And Wahl in this case had it even better than Juvia and Gajeel because Wahl actually boasted that he could absorb lightning.

Wahl fucked up, it's as simple as that.

Wahl lost because he lacks durability feats and Laxus is well over mid-tier Spriggan level.

Super-effectiveness is not a fucking damn excuse. (No, I'm not pissed, so chill, I'm just making my point clear.)

 

[Boomburst]

Lol, and you are telling me this?

I'm not arguing over minor stuff, I'm stating the facts as it is and pulling past examples to prove my point. You guys are just all in denial.

Wahl can detect weaknesses, but weaknesses don't make you lose/win a battle. If you lose, that's your own fault. If you win, congratulations, you earned it.

Weakness being a factor to your loss and win is complete BS in FT.

There is literally no such thing.

If weakness really mattered, Juvia and Gajeel would be dead by now. Laxus has shocked them both several times in the past and both conduct lightning and electricity more than Wahl.

Lightning and electricity may be super-effective to Juvia and Gajeel, but have you seen them get killed by it yet? No.


Being killed from super-effectiveness is really not an excuse unless you are talking about slaying advantages.

And Wahl in this case had it even better than Juvia and Gajeel because Wahl actually boasted that he could absorb lightning.

Wahl fucked up, it's as simple as that.

Wahl lost because he lacks durability feats and Laxus is well over mid-tier Spriggan level.

Super-effectiveness is not a fucking damn excuse. (No, I'm not pissed, so chill, I'm just making my point clear.)

Bruh, Wahl has WEAKNESS MAGIC. The fact that such a magic even exists in FT is confirmation that weaknesses do make a difference.

Your Juvia and Gajeel comments hold no weight whatsoever. Do they get affected more by lightning? Sure, why not, I'll let you have that one. But does that automatically translate into them getting killed just by getting hit? Hell no. No way. Not even close. Do you realize what a huge jump you're making?

Wahl isnt weak to electricity because he's made of metal, he's weak to electricity because it messes with his circuits and the smallest amount in the right place could shut him down completely. Why do you think Wahl even needed to develop a way to absorb electricity to begin with?

 

[Spirit]

Bruh, Wahl has WEAKNESS MAGIC. The fact that such a magic even exists in FT is confirmation that weaknesses do make a difference.

Your Juvia and Gajeel comments hold no weight whatsoever. Do they get affected more by lightning? Sure, why not, I'll let you have that one. But does that automatically translate into them getting killed just by getting hit? Hell no. No way. Not even close. Do you realize what a huge jump you're making?

Wahl isn't weak to electricity because he's made of metal, he's weak to electricity because it messes with his circuits and the smallest amount in the right place could shut him down completely. Why do you think Wahl even needed to develop a way to absorb electricity to begin with?

Yeah Wahl has robotic parts, so the electricity would overload his circuitry, leaving him unable to move. In a different way altogether, Bradman wouldn't be affected by lightning because while he's completely clothed in metal, he has no circuitry to get fried

 

[Nemispelled]

Bruh, Wahl has WEAKNESS MAGIC. The fact that such a magic even exists in FT is confirmation that weaknesses do make a difference.

Your Juvia and Gajeel comments hold no weight whatsoever. Do they get affected more by lightning? Sure, why not, I'll let you have that one. But does that automatically translate into them getting killed just by getting hit? Hell no. No way. Not even close. Do you realize what a huge jump you're making?

Wahl isnt weak to electricity because he's made of metal, he's weak to electricity because it messes with his circuits and the smallest amount in the right place could shut him down completely. Why do you think Wahl even needed to develop a way to absorb electricity to begin with?

Getting your circuits messed up and dying/being completely shattered to pieces are 2 very different things.

Re-read the chapter and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Like I said, electricity is actually meant to run through circuits and machines... Wahl's only weakness is his whole body being made of metal.

The weakness here is the metal because that is what conducts the electricity throughout his whole body.


Yeah right, Wahl developed a way to absorb electricity? Funny how electricity was responsible for his death.


My Juvia and Gajeel comments basically proved the point that elemental weaknesses are BS in Fairy Tail.

The reason you just keep denying and pushing it away is because you can't counter that argument

If you really are confident that it holds no weight, then can you explain to me why Juvia and Gajeel didn't blame lightning as their weakness when they were hit by it?



When Juvia and Gajeel were struck by lightning, not once did I hear Gajeel or Juvia complaining:

"Ughh, it's my weakness...I need to find a way to stop it otherwise Laxus will kill me..."


Do you know how ridiculous this sounds?

Fire is super-effective to ice.

Yet, Natsu was insta-frozen twice by two different Ice Mages, Invel and Silver.

Water is super-effective to fire. Lightning is super-effective to Water. Lightning is super-effective to Metal.

There are so many weaknesses in Fairy Tail, yet not one person has ever blamed the weakness for their performance in a battle BUT Wahl...



I don't think you understand Wahl's weakness magic. Wahl's magic is basically to analyze a person weakness and create robots and conditions that make it harder for his opponents to fight in.

His weakness magic was NEVER about elemental super-effectiveness such as fire, water, metal, and lightning...

You are thinking of Pokemon.. you know.. the show with a yellow lightning hamster with two red blushes on his cheeks...


Look, really dude, it's been pretty clear that all the way up until Alvarez Arc, there has been no mention of elemental super-effectiveness.

Mashima made it clear from day one when he created the series that elemental super-effectiveness was not a big factor in FT.

There were many instances where Mashima could have used elemental super-effectiveness in his favor, but he didn't even consider it and instead, chose to ignore all of it.


I think a lot of you are misunderstanding Wahl's weakness magic. Go back and re-read his magic abilities.

Weakness Magic =/= Super-effectiveness

Super-effectiveness was created by the fans, not by the manga.