Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Laxus chan-yo]

A dragon slayer having dragon force is a major asspull sure

God Serena never got to show shit before he was oneshotted. Gajeel didn't show Dragon Force before 'this stage' either.

 

[Kairo]

You know when that dragon slayer is artificial/fake.

Gajeel is a first gen, him having DF is acceptable, though you can argue that he just showed his DF against Bloodman.

 

[Jko]

Second Gen do not have DF. The only way to have DF is through a Dragon enchanting you with DS as that gives you the ability to become more of a Dragon. Second Gen don't have the risk of Dragonization bcs they aren't real slayers, and basically have a magical converter that changes their normal elemental magic into DS magic (ofc it has to be a specific elemental lacrima to change the normal element to the DS version). First Gen Slayer abilities are probably better than Second Gen as well bcs they become more like a Dragon the more they use their DS abilities.

 

[Arjuna]

Spoiler

Did Natsu blow up Zeref which he failed to with first attack in Igneel powered FDKM.

I am a Natsu fan but powerscaling is a mess.

 

[sharkai]

Second Gen do not have DF. The only way to have DF is through a Dragon enchanting you with DS as that gives you the ability to become more of a Dragon. Second Gen don't have the risk of Dragonization bcs they aren't real slayers, and basically have a magical converter that changes their normal elemental magic into DS magic (ofc it has to be a specific elemental lacrima to change the normal element to the DS version). First Gen Slayer abilities are probably better than Second Gen as well bcs they become more like a Dragon the more they use their DS abilities.

Indeed
Parent dragons didnt seems to worry about second generation dragon slayers. Maybe they cant dragonize

 

[Jko]

Spoiler

Did Natsu blow up Zeref which he failed to with first attack in Igneel powered FDKM.

I am a Natsu fan but powerscaling is a mess.

No, Zeref still was alive. He just regenerated his body with a different means.

Indeed
Parent dragons didnt seems to worry about second generation dragon slayers. Maybe they cant dragonize

Exactly. They definitely can't. Second Gen fixes the problem of Dragonification but weakens their slayer abilities since they can't achieve more Dragon like qualities.

 

[Pheromone]

Spoiler

Did Natsu blow up Zeref which he failed to with first attack in Igneel powered FDKM.

I am a Natsu fan but powerscaling is a mess.

IgNatsu never threw out anything besides a few generic flame-enhanced punches. No real Fire Dragon spells. Spells > Physical Attacks.

Those punches did considerable damage to Zeref.

Spoiler

Whereas DF Natsu threw out a FDK Demolition Fist, an actual spell.

I can buy a DF Natsu FDK Demolition Fist being stronger than IgNatsu FDK punch.

 

[Brandish μ]

You could argue that Laxus and Cobra already have dragonised canonically
Laxus
Cobra

The main reason they won't go DF is Hiro, not any rule under magic. They've got a lacrima which acts more or less the same as being enchanted with dragon power. 2Gen dragon slayers have all the other physiological characteristics that 1st gen slayers have (physical strength, smell, hearing, transportation sickness). Only difference is how much shine Hiro is willing to give Laxus or Cobra.

 

[Jko]

You could argue that Laxus and Cobra already have dragonised canonically
Laxus
Cobra

The main reason they won't go DF is Hiro, not any rule under magic. They've got a lacrima which acts more or less the same as being enchanted with dragon power. 2Gen dragon slayers have all the other physiological characteristics that 1st gen slayers have (physical strength, smell, hearing, transportation sickness). Only difference is how much shine Hiro is willing to give Laxus or Cobra.

Those aren't DF nor Dragonization. They were just for effect.

Laxus and Cobra don't have to worry about Dragonification bcs they don't have the ability to become more like a Dragon. And they haven't shown as good smell feats as Wendy or Natsu. I don't even think they have shown acute sense of smell in the manga, and Laxus doesn't even have a decent hearing feat (Cobra's hearing feats come through his sound magic). The only thing they have is motion sickness, but that is as far a they're going to go with the Lacrima. Second Gen are DS without the risk and they probably lose Slayer effect bcs of it. They are called fake DS IIRC.

 

[Pirate Queen]

You could argue that Laxus and Cobra already have dragonised canonically
Laxus
Cobra

The main reason they won't go DF is Hiro, not any rule under magic. They've got a lacrima which acts more or less the same as being enchanted with dragon power. 2Gen dragon slayers have all the other physiological characteristics that 1st gen slayers have (physical strength, smell, hearing, transportation sickness). Only difference is how much shine Hiro is willing to give Laxus or Cobra.

Wait, what? The reason the 5 have acess to dragon force probably has to due with them actually housing dragons within them for so long. Laxus and Cobra did not get that pleasure. There is a huge difference between the 5 and Laxus/cobra. Its probably why devil slayers dont have devil force and why god slayers dont have god force. The 5 ds had catalysts within them, givinf them power closer to their parents.

 

[Axiomus]

You could argue that Laxus and Cobra already have dragonised canonically
Laxus
Cobra

The main reason they won't go DF is Hiro, not any rule under magic. They've got a lacrima which acts more or less the same as being enchanted with dragon power. 2Gen dragon slayers have all the other physiological characteristics that 1st gen slayers have (physical strength, smell, hearing, transportation sickness). Only difference is how much shine Hiro is willing to give Laxus or Cobra.

I agree with this. Cobra and Laxus probably aren't significant to the plot enough to warrant Hiro giving them dragon force, not because of any physical reason. If things change, and they become important to the plot in a significant fashion, things might change.

I can believe that Dragon Force is Natsu's strongest form. It. How I see it is Natsu doesn't have as much magic power as he did when he had Igneel's power, but dragon force is the most efficient use of the magical power he does have. It gives the greatest "bang for the buck" so to speak.

 

[SirSamuel016]

You could argue that Laxus and Cobra already have dragonised canonically
Laxus
Cobra

The main reason they won't go DF is Hiro, not any rule under magic. They've got a lacrima which acts more or less the same as being enchanted with dragon power. 2Gen dragon slayers have all the other physiological characteristics that 1st gen slayers have (physical strength, smell, hearing, transportation sickness). Only difference is how much shine Hiro is willing to give Laxus or Cobra.

The bold is wrong. It's been said by Natsu in Tartaros that he learnt Dragon Force from Igneel, which implies it's something Dragons need to teach their children. Here's the official translation via crunchyroll as proof:

With this, I'd say it's fairly safe to say that only those who were taught by dragons can use it.

 

[Brandish μ]

Those aren't DF nor Dragonization. They were just for effect.

Laxus and Cobra don't have to worry about Dragonification bcs they don't have the ability to become more like a Dragon. And they haven't shown as good smell feats as Wendy or Natsu. I don't even think they have shown acute sense of smell in the manga, and Laxus doesn't even have a decent hearing feat (Cobra's hearing feats come through his sound magic). The only thing they have is motion sickness, but that is as far a they're going to go with the Lacrima. Second Gen are DS without the risk and they probably lose Slayer effect bcs of it. They are called fake DS IIRC.

I'm not really worried about Laxus/Cobra not showing decent feats, because their panel time is considerably lower than Wendy or Natsu. Laxus has the lungs of a dragon slayer (not human stated as recently as ch 472). They both have shown dragon physiology. They're called fake DS, but what does that mean? To me it just means they have a lacrima, and weren't give power directly from a dragon. They use DSM the same so far...

Wait, what? The reason the 5 have acess to dragon force probably has to due with them actually housing dragons within them for so long. Laxus and Cobra did not get that pleasure. There is a huge difference between the 5 and Laxus/cobra. Its probably why devil slayers dont have devil force and why god slayers dont have god force. The 5 ds had catalysts within them, givinf them power closer to their parents.

Well, unless every other dragon slayer from 400YA also had dragons souls implanted in their bodies I'd say it's not compulsory for dragon souls to be put in slayers. Irene for example was able to acquire dragon power from Belserion, but did he put his soul into her?

In my eyes the only difference is importance to the story. Getting DF is just like getting a dual mode - if Hiro wants to there would be no reason why Laxus can't eat Natsu's fire and also use LFD. However Laxus isn't important enough for this.

The bold is wrong. It's been said by Natsu in Tartaros that he learnt Dragon Force from Igneel, which implies it's something Dragons need to teach their children. Here's the official translation via crunchyroll as proof:

With this, I'd say it's fairly safe to say that only those who were taught by dragons can use it.

He's probably talking about the secret art. If that's not the case, Natsu is commenting on his path to dragon force that is not cause for ruling out Laxus/Cobra being able to use dragon force. Especially if there are panels with them showing dragon scales...

 

[SirSamuel016]

He's probably talking about the secret art. If that's not the case, Natsu is commenting on his path to dragon force that is not cause for ruling out Laxus/Cobra being able to use dragon force. Especially if there are panels with them showing dragon scales...

Mate, we read manga from right to left and that includes the text boxes. If he was talking about the secret art, he'd of said "I learned this from Igneel", not "I learned it from Igneel". "It" is referring to something mentioned previously, in this case it's Dragon Force. This is the first we've ever heard about how Dragon Slayers and the origin of them having "Dragon Force". Natsu having been taught it by Igneel implies the same for the others. As for the scales on the second gen slayers, I don't think it's Dragon Force but rather something caused by their Lacrima activating. When Laxus activated his Lacrima for the first time is when we saw changes in him and Cobra when he used his magic had the changes happen. There's no increase in their power or speed either so I doubt that was Dragon Force, but rather just effects from the Lacrima which provides them with magic they otherwise wouldn't have.

To get more onto the topic of power, it's hard to say whether DF Natsu is stronger than IgNatsu but I'd say it isn't. IgNatsu was just using regular punches whereas DF Natsu used an actual spell and that's the key thing here. If Natsu did the same with Igneel's power then we'd of seen something a lot more destructive when he initially fought Zeref. He's still one of the strongest mages from Ishgar from this showing with Dragon Force though imo.

 

[Arjuna]

@Jko

Spoiler

My point was not whether he could regenerate or not.I was talking about D.C. difference.

IgNatsu never threw out anything besides a few generic flame-enhanced punches. No real Fire Dragon spells. Spells > Physical Attacks.

Those punches did considerable damage to Zeref.

Spoiler

Whereas DF Natsu threw out a FDK Demolition Fist, an actual spell.

I can buy a DF Natsu FDK Demolition Fist being stronger than IgNatsu FDK punch.

Spoiler

I was talking about the final spell that Natsu used in chapter 464 in FDKM state not in his Base state at the start of the fight.That attack left Zeref severely injured,but not vaporised .But in chap 533 DF Natsu was able to vaporise Zeref.But due to his immortality and Time wrapping he was able to come back.

Seems like Natsu finally reached the powerlevel of a Dragon-A mid Tier Dragon atleast.

You could argue that Laxus and Cobra already have dragonised canonically
Laxus
Cobra

The main reason they won't go DF is Hiro, not any rule under magic. They've got a lacrima which acts more or less the same as being enchanted with dragon power. 2Gen dragon slayers have all the other physiological characteristics that 1st gen slayers have (physical strength, smell, hearing, transportation sickness). Only difference is how much shine Hiro is willing to give Laxus or Cobra.

That's not DF.It's more like Gajeel eating Iron during Phantom Arc during his fight with Natsu.Most importantly whenever DF is activated Dragon Slayers have scales on their face which either Cobra or Laxus doesn't have.


And Hiro always makes it a point to note whenever DF is used which he didn't do here.


And we also know Second Gen DS are not as strong as First Gen in the same age.Wendy is much more powerful than Laxus was in her age.

 

[**Silver**]

BIASED August is still the strongest in my eyes.... wanking Natsu doesent change the fact Natsu was below Jura level Tartaros arc now he has jumped what 5 tiers?.... the wank is real

 

[Jko]

I'm not really worried about Laxus/Cobra not showing decent feats, because their panel time is considerably lower than Wendy or Natsu. Laxus has the lungs of a dragon slayer (not human stated as recently as ch 472). They both have shown dragon physiology. They're called fake DS, but what does that mean? To me it just means they have a lacrima, and weren't give power directly from a dragon. They use DSM the same so far...



Well, unless every other dragon slayer from 400YA also had dragons souls implanted in their bodies I'd say it's not compulsory for dragon souls to be put in slayers. Irene for example was able to acquire dragon power from Belserion, but did he put his soul into her?

In my eyes the only difference is importance to the story. Getting DF is just like getting a dual mode - if Hiro wants to there would be no reason why Laxus can't eat Natsu's fire and also use LFD. However Laxus isn't important enough for this.



He's probably talking about the secret art. If that's not the case, Natsu is commenting on his path to dragon force that is not cause for ruling out Laxus/Cobra being able to use dragon force. Especially if there are panels with them showing dragon scales...

The lungs might be where the lacrima is located so he can eat lightning. Other than his lungs he hasn't shown anywhere near the level of Dragon senses as first gen. The lack panel time is not enough to say he has properties of Dragons like 1st gen. If 2nd Gen were like 1st Gen the Dragons would've been scared of them Dragonizing too but they weren't because 2nd Gen can't go to level of 1st Gen in terms of becoming a Dragon. DF is the last step before Dragonification, it's the closest to becoming a Dragon without becoming an actual Dragon. 2nd Gen can't reach that level in terms of DS abilities.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 22, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 22, 2017 ---

@Jko

Spoiler

My point was not whether he could regenerate or not.I was talking about D.C. difference.

Spoiler

I was talking about the final spell that Natsu used in chapter 464 in FDKM state not in his Base state at the start of the fight.That attack left Zeref severely injured,but not vaporised .But in chap 533 DF Natsu was able to vaporise Zeref.But due to his immortality and Time wrapping he was able to come back.

Seems like Natsu finally reached the powerlevel of a Dragon-A mid Tier Dragon atleast.

That's not DF.It's more like Gajeel eating Iron during Phantom Arc during his fight with Natsu.Most importantly whenever DF is activated Dragon Slayers have scales on their face which either Cobra or Laxus doesn't have.


And Hiro always makes it a point to note whenever DF is used which he didn't do here.


And we also know Second Gen DS are not as strong as First Gen in the same age.Wendy is much more powerful than Laxus was in her age.

Well Natsu was trying to destroy Zeref and the Curse which might've been the reason that he didn't destroy Zeref with Igneel's power.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Natsu, August,Zeref, and Acno are the apex charaters in this manga now. Its as simple as that. And its obvious Natsu is going to get a massive power up in the next few chapters.

This is madara vs naruto/sauske level battling now.

All the character we thought were top tier will look far weaker in the coming chapters.

Laxus, Gildartz, Grey, Erza tier fighter are now not enoufh for the level of battle thats going to be occuring.

 

[Brandish μ]

Mate, we read manga from right to left and that includes the text boxes. If he was talking about the secret art, he'd of said "I learned this from Igneel", not "I learned it from Igneel". "It" is referring to something mentioned previously, in this case it's Dragon Force. This is the first we've ever heard about how Dragon Slayers and the origin of them having "Dragon Force". Natsu having been taught it by Igneel implies the same for the others. As for the scales on the second gen slayers, I don't think it's Dragon Force but rather something caused by their Lacrima activating. When Laxus activated his Lacrima for the first time is when we saw changes in him and Cobra when he used his magic had the changes happen. There's no increase in their power or speed either so I doubt that was Dragon Force, but rather just effects from the Lacrima which provides them with magic they otherwise wouldn't have.

Fair enough. And lets say Natsu learned it from Igneel, I'm sure Gajeel didn't learn it from Metallicana. Even Wendy hints that she's doing what Natsu did. That should be enough to at least question the validity that a dragon has to teach dragon force.

I'd back inconsistency, dramatic effect or Hiro forgetting/not wanting to have Laxus/Cobra dragonise over the 'effects of the lacrima'.They've both used DSM since their first time they've shown it and didn't once dragonised, which rules out the point of lacrima activation imo. Their first battles also don't indicate much stat wise since they dominated from pretty much a standing position until plot intervened (Laxus used FL and was emotionally conflicted, Cobra was defeated by a scream).

The lungs might be where the lacrima is located so he can eat lightning. Other than his lungs he hasn't shown anywhere near the level of Dragon senses as first gen. The lack panel time is not enough to say he has properties of Dragons like 1st gen. If 2nd Gen were like 1st Gen the Dragons would've been scared of them Dragonizing too but they weren't because 2nd Gen can't go to level of 1st Gen in terms of becoming a Dragon. DF is the last step before Dragonification, it's the closest to becoming a Dragon without becoming an actual Dragon. 2nd Gen can't reach that level in terms of DS abilities.

And this would be fair if we knew facts on this. But right now there isn't a reason at all that has been stated, and there's sufficient evidence to suggest 2G slayers could dragonise. The difference is the level of impact Hiro wants the 2G slayers to have compared to the dragon plan 5 imo. And I'm fine with that.

Spoiler: DF Natsu

I think Natsu will dragonise in the manga similar to how he will in the movie, but Hiro might wait until the movie is released so he can time it's introduction into the manga at the same time. He'll never fully become Igneel-like imo, though Zeref sort of hints in in 532 that he needs to become like Acno to challenge him. So I think Natsu will advance even more than he did in 532/3 with his dragonising.

That's not DF.It's more like Gajeel eating Iron during Phantom Arc during his fight with Natsu.Most importantly whenever DF is activated Dragon Slayers have scales on their face which either Cobra or Laxus doesn't have.

Cobra showed 2 full hands with claws, this is dragonising to me (which is in the same basket as DF). DF can be used without face scales, well at least with Wendy.

And Hiro always makes it a point to note whenever DF is used which he didn't do here.

This is about the best argument that can be made against Laxus/Cobra using dragon force imo.

 

[Arjuna]

Fair enough. And lets say Natsu learned it from Igneel, I'm sure Gajeel didn't learn it from Metallicana. Even Wendy hints that she's doing what Natsu did. That should be enough to at least question the validity that a dragon has to teach dragon force.

I'd back inconsistency, dramatic effect or Hiro forgetting/not wanting to have Laxus/Cobra dragonise over the 'effects of the lacrima'.They've both used DSM since their first time they've shown it and didn't once dragonised, which rules out the point of lacrima activation imo. Their first battles also don't indicate much stat wise since they dominated from pretty much a standing position until plot intervened (Laxus used FL and was emotionally conflicted, Cobra was defeated by a scream).



And this would be fair if we knew facts on this. But right now there isn't a reason at all that has been stated, and there's sufficient evidence to suggest 2G slayers could dragonise. The difference is the level of impact Hiro wants the 2G slayers to have compared to the dragon plan 5 imo. And I'm fine with that.

Spoiler: DF Natsu

I think Natsu will dragonise in the manga similar to how he will in the movie, but Hiro might wait until the movie is released so he can time it's introduction into the manga at the same time. He'll never fully become Igneel-like imo, though Zeref sort of hints in in 532 that he needs to become like Acno to challenge him. So I think Natsu will advance even more than he did in 532/3 with his dragonising.

Cobra showed 2 full hands with claws, this is dragonising to me (which is in the same basket as DF). DF can be used without face scales, well at least with Wendy.



This is about the best argument that can be made against Laxus/Cobra using dragon force imo.

Yup probably.If they were using DF i am pretty sure Hiro would have made it point it like he did with Natsu,Wendy,Sting,Rogue and possibly Gajeel every time.