I mean, it’s makes sense the way it’s described. I don’t understand ignoring shown feats, because we don’t have the exact mechanics for them. It makes little sense to assume for it to just be an illusion with him taking the time to also show how her magic is effecting the tides on Earthland. Mashima making it clear he can’t explain the mechanics, part of his like for magic, doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Affecting a moon sized object requires a certain amount of force. The same is true for affecting oceans. An they make it abundantly clear in FT time and again you have to have the strength to cast something. An we are shown plenty of other evidence of the consequences of doing so. Like Natsu training on boulders, even though Dragon Fire burns everything, he wasn’t strong enough to accomplish it. An now he can vaporize mountains with ease just like dad could, because he can produce enough power after years of growth. They keep making a point of how awesomely powerful these DG are, why assume the provided examples of what they’re supposed to be without hindrance are tricks? This is Mashima, the hype king.
Brandish creates mass equivalent of an island. She CREATES MASS.
The energy involved should be enough to easily blow up a planet to smithereens if we do calcs here. Yet that is clearly not what Mashima's intention is, for Mashima what Brandish does is simply a product of her magic and not her "power level"
Similarly, what Selene is doing is a product of her magic, and not her power level.
Just using E = mc2 to convert the mass she created into energy.
My point was that using calcs in Fairy Tail is dumb.
Nova says Selene is planet level because of her magic affecting moon and earthland from another dimension. I say not necessarily, and that what she's doing is a product of her ability. And point to other dragons of her tier, like Acno, Merc, Aldo etc not showing such a big AOE.
Yes, of course. It's just that every high tier good guy in FT has magic power above her level, yet a lot of them don't have city range AOE. Point being, AOE as a result of magic ability can't be calc'd.
Nova says Selene is planet level because of her magic affecting moon and earthland from another dimension. I say not necessarily, and that what she's doing is a product of her ability. And point to other dragons of her tier, like Acno, Merc, Aldo etc not showing such a big AOE.
Affecting the moon you might argue is due to her magic but her affecting another dimension is her raw power. It's the equivalent of Ignia and Selene noticing Aldoron's power from that far.
Yes, of course. It's just that every high tier good guy in FT has magic power above her level, yet a lot of them don't have city range AOE. Point being, AOE as a result of magic ability can't be calc'd.
Affecting the moon you might argue is due to her magic but her affecting another dimension is her raw power. It's the equivalent of Ignia and Selene noticing Aldoron's power from that far.
Nova use it to calc lol. He was implying that affecting moon and another dimension was changing the scaling significantly, and I was like "ehh not really". I was responding to him about it.
If you calc for attack power and pure destruction, that is perfectly fine by me. IMO that is the only area where calc is somewhat viable.
I think we are more or less in agreement here lol.
The Dragon Gods have shown the raw power to shake countries and co. I don't see the issue with the Dragon Gods being planetary. Acnologia is already in the continental range and the DG's are > him.
Since when? She uses Moon Magic and can BFR. What is dimension magic?
The Dragon Gods have shown the raw power to shake countries and co. I don't see the issue with the Dragon Gods being planetary. Acnologia is already in the continental range and the DG's are > him.
She can traverse between dimensions, open portals between dimensions etc.
Ehh, disagree about DG > Acno. But don't really want to go there.
When did countries get shaken by DGs? Even if that's true, DGs are still not planetary (I assume by planetary, you mean destruction power?). None of them have shown anything suggesting they have planet level destruction power.
IMO DGs are country level, just like Acno was.
When did countries get shaken by DGs? Even if that's true, DGs are still not planetary (I assume by planetary, you mean destruction power?). None of them have shown anything suggesting they have planet level destruction power.
Selene felt Aldoron from Elentir and same thing with Selene. This is a result of her raw power as said with Mercphobia. She is literally causing natural disasters in another world just by releasing her power. Aldoron kind of did the same thing when he "awoke" and Selene could feel it.
No I did not say destructive power, I mean in AP. Acnologia has easily been calced to have continental+ AP through logical scaling, mainly feats and statements that have not been contradicted.
She can traverse between dimensions, open portals between dimensions etc.
Ehh, disagree about DG > Acno. But don't really want to go there.
When did countries get shaken by DGs? Even if that's true, DGs are still not planetary (I assume by planetary, you mean destruction power?). None of them have shown anything suggesting they have planet level destruction power.
IMO DGs are country level, just like Acno was.
Country lvl? The Spriggan are country lvl, that was expressly stated. Irene and August are continental from their manipulations of Fiore. An Acnologia is magnitudes above them. I know thats out of order, but if you think Acno topped at Country after we saw him blanket Ishgar with that attack, and know every mage on the continent had to work together just to hold him still, while he was basically under DS Kryptonite. So that’s a good base to establish.
That would make sense if she was opening random portals and they were causing the effect, though it would still be a feat because it’s something she has to have the power to achieve and keep that spell going. The fact it is implicitly stated that this is simply a result of her releasing her magic power, which also supports the original description of the danger these Dragon God’s presented to the world. I’m taking the feats as they are presented.
Selene felt Aldoron from Elentir and same thing with Selene. This is a result of her raw power as said with Mercphobia. She is literally causing natural disasters in another world just by releasing her power. Aldoron kind of did the same thing when he "awoke" and Selene could feel it.
No I did not say destructive power, I mean in AP. Acnologia has easily been calced to have continental+ AP through logical scaling, mainly feats and statements that have not been contradicted.
She is causing climate to act wack in another dimension, because she has dimension magic, which went wack when she powered up.
I don't think Acno or any other DG is going to affect another dimension by powering up
What is difference between destructive power and attack power (I presume you mean that by AP)?
BFR is short for Battle Field Removal, referring to one opponent forcing the other outside of their area of combat for a long enough period of time that the battle cannot be continued. Essentially she can open portals, and remove her enemies to somewhere else. Not dimension magic.
DC is how much destruction is shown on panel. For example, Acnologia busting an island during Tenrou. Here's what AP (Attack potency, not attack power) is (yes I stole it from VSBW).
An alternative term for Destructive Capacity which has more direct meaning: The Destructive Capacity that an attack is equivalent to. A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces. As such it isn't proof of a low attack potency, if a character's attacks only cause a small amount of destruction.
We are aware that this technically violates the principle of conservation of energy, as it should logically disperse upon impact, but fiction generally tends to ignore this fact, so we overlook it as well.
Also, kindly remember that Attack Potency is the measure of Destructive Capacity of an attack, and as such, is measured via its energy damage equivalent. Hence, characters that destroy mountains or islands are not automatically mountain or island level, especially if they are small. The attack potency depends on the energy output of a single attack, not the area of effect of the attack.
BFR is short for Battle Field Removal, referring to one opponent forcing the other outside of their area of combat for a long enough period of time that the battle cannot be continued. Essentially she can open portals, and remove her enemies to somewhere else. Not dimension magic.
But as I already explained, dimension magic is not a thing and nowhere has it ever been mentioned.
Mercuphobia confirms that the natural disasters are happening due to her power. It's not that hard to grasp.
Aldoron has done it and so has Selene. The rest of the DGS scale to that. Acno isn't because he's not as strong as the DGS.
DC is how much destruction is shown on panel. For example, Acnologia busting an island during Tenrou. Here's what AP (Attack potency, not attack power) is (yes I stole it from VSBW).
An alternative term for Destructive Capacity which has more direct meaning: The Destructive Capacity that an attack is equivalent to. A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces. As such it isn't proof of a low attack potency, if a character's attacks only cause a small amount of destruction.
We are aware that this technically violates the principle of conservation of energy, as it should logically disperse upon impact, but fiction generally tends to ignore this fact, so we overlook it as well.
Also, kindly remember that Attack Potency is the measure of Destructive Capacity of an attack, and as such, is measured via its energy damage equivalent. Hence, characters that destroy mountains or islands are not automatically mountain or island level, especially if they are small. The attack potency depends on the energy output of a single attack, not the area of effect of the attack.
BFR is short for Battle Field Removal, referring to one opponent forcing the other outside of their area of combat for a long enough period of time that the battle cannot be continued. Essentially she can open portals, and remove her enemies to somewhere else. Not dimension magic.
But as I already explained, dimension magic is not a thing and nowhere has it ever been mentioned.
Mercuphobia confirms that the natural disasters are happening due to her power. It's not that hard to grasp.
Aldoron has done it and so has Selene. The rest of the DGS scale to that. Acno isn't because he's not as strong as the DGS.
DC is how much destruction is shown on panel. For example, Acnologia busting an island during Tenrou. Here's what AP (Attack potency, not attack power) is (yes I stole it from VSBW).
An alternative term for Destructive Capacity which has more direct meaning: The Destructive Capacity that an attack is equivalent to. A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces. As such it isn't proof of a low attack potency, if a character's attacks only cause a small amount of destruction.
We are aware that this technically violates the principle of conservation of energy, as it should logically disperse upon impact, but fiction generally tends to ignore this fact, so we overlook it as well.
Also, kindly remember that Attack Potency is the measure of Destructive Capacity of an attack, and as such, is measured via its energy damage equivalent. Hence, characters that destroy mountains or islands are not automatically mountain or island level, especially if they are small. The attack potency depends on the energy output of a single attack, not the area of effect of the attack.
Ok, I see.
But the fact that she can open portals does open the possibility that the reason the effect of her powering up is felt in Merc's city, is because the power leaks through the portals she possibly opened across the continent and Elentir.
I find that explanation far more plausible and logical than Selene powering up made ripples across an another dimension simply by it's pure strength. Like, how does that even make sense? DGs powering up don't even make climate wack in another continent. We didn't see Merc powering up causing climate to act wack in Fiore for eg. Sure he was nerfed, but him being <= 50% of his full power can't be the difference between him not affecting a continent vs him affecting ANOTHER DIMENSION.
Also, this ability to open up portal is what I called dimension magic. I suppose it wasn't clear earlier, but I hope it's clear now. We're talking about the same thing, refer it to what you will, it's just nomenclature.
How much do you think Acno is, compared to DGs?
Acno vs full power Selene for eg, I assume you think Selene wins. But what diff?
Ok, I understand Attack potency now.
Which character has the ability to cause continent wide destruction though? The highest destructive power we've ever seen in the series was August's ars magica, but that was a suicide spell and was only country level.
For Acno to have continental AP, he must be able to damage characters capable of continent level destruction, right? Who is that character?
Also, this
" Hence, characters that destroy mountains or islands are not automatically mountain or island level, especially if they are small. The attack potency depends on the energy output of a single attack, not the area of effect of the attack. "
A character who can destroy an island isn't automatically island level? Why? Obviously if an attack destroys an island, it must have the energy output to do so.
I understand the scenario where island is small.
Ok, I see.
But the fact that she can open portals does open the possibility that the reason the effect of her powering up is felt in Merc's city, is because the power leaks through the portals she possibly opened across the continent and Elentir.
Ok, for this to be theorized then you would need to show me where any portal is currently opening. Actually, the latest chapter helps out the idea of it being her power since it was he who started the issues going on with magic and Elentir is on the verge of exploding as confirmed by the WW.
I find that explanation far more plausible and logical than Selene powering up made ripples across an another dimension simply by it's pure strength. Like, how does that even make sense? DGs powering up don't even make climate wack in another continent. We didn't see Merc powering up causing climate to act wack in Fiore for eg. Sure he was nerfed, but him being <= 50% of his full power can't be the difference between him not affecting a continent vs him affecting ANOTHER DIMENSION.
He was nerfed half of his strength. Do you thing a 50% Acnologia could cause the amount of destruction he did? Absolutely not. Also consider Mercphobia's words confirm it's due to the strength of a "Dragon God."
Also, this ability to open up portal is what I called dimension magic. I suppose it wasn't clear earlier, but I hope it's clear now. We're talking about the same thing, refer it to what you will, it's just nomenclature.
Any Dragon God at full power beats Acnologia high diff max. It's time to let go of old villians. There was once a time when Hades was seen as the ultimate unbeatable villian, yet he was also replaced by someone stronger.
Ok, I understand Attack potency now.
Which character has the ability to cause continent wide destruction though? The highest destructive power we've ever seen in the series was August's ars magica, but that was a suicide spell and was only country level.
For Acno to have continental AP, he must be able to damage characters capable of continent level destruction, right? Who is that character?
No, by scaling, he is massively above Irene and August who are easily continental level. Mercuphobia and Aldoron already showed continental level feats by one casually flipping over an entire ocean, and Aldoron is pretty self explanatory. In terms of Acnologia? Easy, he was already showing casual country level feats by killing God Serena the way he did. With the RoT power-up and eternal flares? Easily, continental.
Also, this
" Hence, characters that destroy mountains or islands are not automatically mountain or island level, especially if they are small. The attack potency depends on the energy output of a single attack, not the area of effect of the attack. "
A character who can destroy an island isn't automatically island level? Why? Obviously if an attack destroys an island, it must have the energy output to do so.
I understand the scenario where island is small.
