Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Rigel]

Nope. Athena II just beat Jellal and Erza beceuse they were fatigued after their recent battles. Athena II did that after stealing the powers from Wendy, Rogue and Natsu. Athena was stomped by Athena II and just could win after Athena II lost all her powers.

Minerva didn't use all her power against Luso. Luso is a wizard who attacks mostly by creating creatures, and Minerva defeats two of them. Luso escaped Minerva's magic and physical attack, she didn't just tank it. Athena, however, tanked all cast by Lucy and Yukino and overcame it without any damage.

There is no way Minerva is very weak compared to Lucy since the only way for Lucy to win against Minerva is by burning all her Magic Power in a spell. How can Minerva be far weaker than Lucy when the latter necessarily needs to use all her MP to defeat Minerva?

Speed: Minerva > Lucy.
Physical combat: Minerva > Lucy.

Do I need to say how Minerva's magic has advantaged over Lucy?

Wow, I confess that I didn't see this page. My mistake.

But I still stand by my argument, Athena managed to momentarily stop Athena V2 in a few moments with physical force.

And of course Minerva used all her power against Luso, what else are she capable of doing? Explain to me, what other type of power does Minerva have?

And Minerva has nothing. She doesn't have speed, she doesn't have damage, and she's also not versatile. It's explosions and teleportation. The character is over.

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

Wow, I confess that I didn't see this page. My mistake.

But I still stand by my argument, Athena managed to momentarily stop Athena V2 in a few moments with physical force.

And of course Minerva used all her power against Luso, what else are she capable of doing? Explain to me, what other type of power does Minerva have?

And Minerva has nothing. She doesn't have speed, she doesn't have damage, and she's also not versatile. It's explosions and teleportation. The character is over.

But Athena II also didn't have solid physical feats. Athena II could press base Natsu (and not in CQC exactly, but by using the stolen powers), but she was stomped by Natsu using the Lighting Fire Dragon Mode, and Natsu fought Athena II using physical attacks.

Is Athena II superior to base Gray in a physical fight? I don't think so, once Natsu in the Gray body was hitting her:

So, every version of Athena didn't have great feats as a physical fighter (honestly, they aren't impressive in this area). Luso's power has far better speed feats than Athena or Athena II.

Minerva used her strongest spell against "giant Luso", however, Luso just escaped from the AOE of the spell; she didn't tank it. Minerva can use Yagdo Rigora more than just one time (since she wasn't drained by the spell each time that she appeared using it ).

Minerva can spam blasts of energy and she can create one great enough to swallow one person, she did it against Lucy.

She cast another one against Kagura:

And she created a tower of energy that was destroying the ground and that Erza cut with Nakagami Armor:

And she can also spam her explosions. Minerva said that anything in her field of vision was in the range of her magic, thus, she has the magic to attack all Luso's creatures at the same time, she just needed to create explosions on them. She also could have made Luso be attacked by her own creatures.

Minerva possesses a magic that is fit to fight multiple opponents if none of them is faster than her and it is a magic that can fool her opponents. She doesn't need any fancy spell to be a challenger to a summoner (Luso's case), so Mashima just downplayed her by making her use her magic in basic aways and he made Luso transform Minerva, Jellal, and Erza into dogs - defeating them all - to finish the spare quickly.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 7, 2024, Original Post Date: Aug 7, 2024 ---

Changing the subject: The fact that God Serena can cast three DS spells simultaneously is so good. He didn't do that while he was fighting Jellal, did he?

 

[Rigel]

But Athena II also didn't have solid physical feats. Athena II could press base Natsu (and not in CQC exactly, but by using the stolen powers), but she was stomped by Natsu using the Lighting Fire Dragon Mode, and Natsu fought Athena II using physical attacks.

Is Athena II superior to base Gray in a physical fight? I don't think so, once Natsu in the Gray body was hitting her:

So, every version of Athena didn't have great feats as a physical fighter (honestly, they aren't impressive in this area). Luso's power has far better speed feats than Athena or Athena II.

Minerva used her strongest spell against "giant Luso", however, Luso just escaped from the AOE of the spell; she didn't tank it. Minerva can use Yagdo Rigora more than just one time (since she wasn't drained by the spell each time that she appeared using it ).

Minerva can spam blasts of energy and she can create one great enough to swallow one person, she did it against Lucy.

She cast another one against Kagura:

And she created a tower of energy that was destroying the ground and that Erza cut with Nakagami Armor:

And she can also spam her explosions. Minerva said that anything in her field of vision was in the range of her magic, thus, she has the magic to attack all Luso's creatures at the same time, she just needed to create explosions on them. She also could have made Luso be attacked by her own creatures.

Minerva possesses a magic that is fit to fight multiple opponents if none of them is faster than her and it is a magic that can fool her opponents. She doesn't need any fancy spell to be a challenger to a summoner (Luso's case), so Mashima just downplayed her by making her use her magic in basic aways and he made Luso transform Minerva, Jellal, and Erza into dogs - defeating them all - to finish the spare quickly.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 7, 2024, Original Post Date: Aug 7, 2024 ---

Changing the subject: The fact that God Serena can cast three DS spells simultaneously is so good. He didn't do that while he was fighting Jellal, did he?

Athena V2 has good feats of physical strength and is capable of using magic to increase her power level in this aspect.

And Athena has shown to be able to stop Athena V2 twice with physical strength, despite her inferiority. In the second case, she prevented Athena V2 from helping Duke.

Regarding Minerva, her skill set is limited to explosions and teleportation. The explosions she possesses are no longer relevant to the manga's current power level, so she poses no danger to anyone. Furthermore, Mashima introduced a demon in the Tartarus arc with an explosion curse who showed much better feats than Minerva (Jackal), and currently he is also no longer relevant to the manga's power parameters.

In short, Minerva is not relevant to the quest's power levels. She wasn't relevant in Alvarez, imagine now.

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

Athena V2 has good feats of physical strength and is capable of using magic to increase her power level in this aspect.

And Athena has shown to be able to stop Athena V2 twice with physical strength, despite her inferiority. In the second case, she prevented Athena V2 from helping Duke.

Regarding Minerva, her skill set is limited to explosions and teleportation. The explosions she possesses are no longer relevant to the manga's current power level, so she poses no danger to anyone. Furthermore, Mashima introduced a demon in the Tartarus arc with an explosion curse who showed much better feats than Minerva (Jackal), and currently he is also no longer relevant to the manga's power parameters.

In short, Minerva is not relevant to the quest's power levels. She wasn't relevant in Alvarez, imagine now.

There is nothig impressive about Athena II beating oponents who are fatigued by previous fights. Athena II already got Natsu's power when she did that, and we can assume that the more power she gets, stronger she is.
Athena original was a shield, interceptating her foe, but she was stomped in the real fight.
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Just because a better bomb user was introduced, the fact that Minerva can bomb everything that she sees just vanishes?
The strenght of her bombs can vary according to her desires. She blew away the giant plushie completely. I don't see why her explosions isn't a factor when she can spam it. Of couse it is far away from a finishing spell level, but it's pretty useful, once she doesn't need to throw anything in the target direction for the explosion be created. The explosion appears instaneously close to the target.
Lucy, for example, clearly would have difficulty to overcome explosions spammed on her.

 

[Rigel]

There is nothig impressive about Athena II beating oponents who are fatigued by previous fights. Athena II already got Natsu's power when she did that, and we can assume that the more power she gets, stronger she is.
Athena original was a shield, interceptating her foe, but she was stomped in the real fight.
-
Just because a better bomb user was introduced, the fact that Minerva can bomb everything that she sees just vanishes?
The strenght of her bombs can vary according to her desires. She blew away the giant plushie completely. I don't see why her explosions isn't a factor when she can spam it. Of couse it is far away from a finishing spell level, but it's pretty useful, once she doesn't need to throw anything in the target direction for the explosion be created. The explosion appears instaneously close to the target.
Lucy, for example, clearly would have difficulty to overcome explosions spammed on her.

Gray and Lucy spent almost no magical power. And Erza has already destroyed a meteor with all her bones broken and in worse situations, defeated Kyouka.

Regarding Athena, she still managed to stop Athena V2 in two moments using physical strength, despite her inferiority. If Athena V2 could defeat Athena as fast as she defeated Team A, she would have done it and would have helped Duke.

And what's the point of Minerva being able to create explosions in various places? The characters just need to dodge, as has already been shown to be possible. And Jackal was far superior to Minerva in this regard, and yet he was killed by Lucy.

Minerva's explosions would be irrelevant in the face of Aquarius' shield and any of Lucy's other defensive techniques. They also wouldn't cause any damage to Lucy's body, as these explosions aren't relevant in terms of power.

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

Gray and Lucy spent almost no magical power. And Erza has already destroyed a meteor with all her bones broken and in worse situations, defeated Kyouka.

Regarding Athena, she still managed to stop Athena V2 in two moments using physical strength, despite her inferiority. If Athena V2 could defeat Athena as fast as she defeated Team A, she would have done it and would have helped Duke.

And what's the point of Minerva being able to create explosions in various places? The characters just need to dodge, as has already been shown to be possible. And Jackal was far superior to Minerva in this regard, and yet he was killed by Lucy.

Minerva's explosions would be irrelevant in the face of Aquarius' shield and any of Lucy's other defensive techniques. They also wouldn't cause any damage to Lucy's body, as these explosions aren't relevant in terms of power.

Being superior to base Gray and Lucy isn't so impressive. Erza can do "impossible" things even when she is very hurt, but Erza is also portrayed as someone who became incapacitated after a difficult fight, and it has happened many times. Ex: During the GMG arc, Erza needed to be saved from the dragons from the eggs because of the damage from the battle against Minerva and Kagura; Erza was unable to fight after her battle against Ajeel; Erza passed out after defeating the Historias and Jellall needed to finish Neinhart; Suzaku easily defeated Erza after her battle against Youkou; Erza passed out after the battle against Misaki, etc. The main point is: if Athena II was portrayed as a very skilled opponent in physical combat, Natsu wouldn't stomped her in cqc. Natsu wouldn't do that against Erza or Laxus, for example. Natsu stomped Duke pretty fast too after getting up. I don't know if the problem is that this arc seems rushed, but we can clearly see that both Athenas were just looking to Natsu defeating Duke:

If Lucy can use Aquariu's shield properly she will be able to stand the explosion, but the only time that the shield has appeared it was used without Lucy's will. After that, she fought with Aquarius form a few times and was hit without castin' any water shield.

Even so, Minerva can change the water's propriety to harm Lucy, as she did in the Battle Naval game, thus Lucy would be harmed by her water shield. It was already established that Lucy can't change her stardress while she is being attacked, so the explosions could prevent her from using all her asses in the battle.

 

[Rigel]

Being superior to base Gray and Lucy isn't so impressive. Erza can do "impossible" things even when she is very hurt, but Erza is also portrayed as someone who became incapacitated after a difficult fight, and it has happened many times. Ex: During the GMG arc, Erza needed to be saved from the dragons from the eggs because of the damage from the battle against Minerva and Kagura; Erza was unable to fight after her battle against Ajeel; Erza passed out after defeating the Historias and Jellall needed to finish Neinhart; Suzaku easily defeated Erza after her battle against Youkou; Erza passed out after the battle against Misaki, etc. The main point is: if Athena II was portrayed as a very skilled opponent in physical combat, Natsu wouldn't stomped her in cqc. Natsu wouldn't do that against Erza or Laxus, for example. Natsu stomped Duke pretty fast too after getting up. I don't if the problem is that this arc seems rushed, but we can clearly see that both Athenas were just looking to Natsu defeating Duke:

If Lucy can use Aquariu's shield properly she will be able to stand the explosion, but the only time that the shield has appeared it was used without Lucy's will. After that, she fought with Aquarius form a few times and was hit without castin' any water shield.

Even so, Minerva can change the water's propriety to harm Lucy, as she did in the Battle Naval game, thus Lucy would be harmed by her water shield. It was already established that if Lucy can't change her stardress while she is being attacked, so the explosions could prevent her from using all her asses in the battle.

The difference is that Erza was in a better condition to face Athena V2 than the situations you presented. Erza did not take any serious damage in the fight against the Signario Sisters.

You are a little mistaken. Natsu used Fire Thunder Dragon mode against Athena V2 and used several spells to overcome her in physical combat. It wasn't base Natsu. So Athena V2 is not at all weak in that aspect, Natsu is very powerful.

Lucy is clearly capable of using the Aquarius's shield, however it is not effective against high-caliber mages like Brandish. And Lucy's Aquametry was amplified by Brandish's power, so the difference in power was very large. Regarding Kiria, Lucy didn't even see the attack, she didn't understand what happened (that's why she was surprised).

And no, Minerva doesn't do anything in front of Aquarius' shield. Jackal's curse turns everything into a bomb and was irrelevant in front of the shield. And Minerva is far inferior to Jackal in this regard.

And she doesn't do any harm to Lucy with these explosions.

 

[Darklord#10]

Being superior to base Gray and Lucy isn't so impressive. Erza can do "impossible" things even when she is very hurt, but Erza is also portrayed as someone who became incapacitated after a difficult fight, and it has happened many times. Ex: During the GMG arc, Erza needed to be saved from the dragons from the eggs because of the damage from the battle against Minerva and Kagura; Erza was unable to fight after her battle against Ajeel; Erza passed out after defeating the Historias and Jellall needed to finish Neinhart; Suzaku easily defeated Erza after her battle against Youkou; Erza passed out after the battle against Misaki, etc. The main point is: if Athena II was portrayed as a very skilled opponent in physical combat, Natsu wouldn't stomped her in cqc. Natsu wouldn't do that against Erza or Laxus, for example. Natsu stomped Duke pretty fast too after getting up. I don't know if the problem is that this arc seems rushed, but we can clearly see that both Athenas were just looking to Natsu defeating Duke:

If Lucy can use Aquariu's shield properly she will be able to stand the explosion, but the only time that the shield has appeared it was used without Lucy's will. After that, she fought with Aquarius form a few times and was hit without castin' any water shield.

Even so, Minerva can change the water's propriety to harm Lucy, as she did in the Battle Naval game, thus Lucy would be harmed by her water shield. It was already established that Lucy can't change her stardress while she is being attacked, so the explosions could prevent her from using all her asses in the battle.

Yeah suzaku solos all. So what?

 

[Star Frost]

So from what I gathered:

Kagura and Minerva’s feats are outdated until further notice

and

Cancer Form Lucy > Base Erza? Makes sense if you ask me

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

The difference is that Erza was in a better condition to face Athena V2 than the situations you presented. Erza did not take any serious damage in the fight against the Signario Sisters.

You are a little mistaken. Natsu used Fire Thunder Dragon mode against Athena V2 and used several spells to overcome her in physical combat. It wasn't base Natsu. So Athena V2 is not at all weak in that aspect, Natsu is very powerful.

Lucy is clearly capable of using the Aquarius's shield, however it is not effective against high-caliber mages like Brandish. And Lucy's Aquametry was amplified by Brandish's power, so the difference in power was very large. Regarding Kiria, Lucy didn't even see the attack, she didn't understand what happened (that's why she was surprised).

And no, Minerva doesn't do anything in front of Aquarius' shield. Jackal's curse turns everything into a bomb and was irrelevant in front of the shield. And Minerva is far inferior to Jackal in this regard.

And she doesn't do any harm to Lucy with these explosions.

Erza's battle with Ennie was portrayed as a difficult one.
Erza was shown lying on the floor after being cut:

Erza stood up trembling for the final strike:

The narrative portrayed that Erza was fatigued and damaged by her battle against Ennie.

Even so, fatigued Erza was only beaten by Athena II on cqc because Erza was holding Natsu in her arms:

We can see that Erza was already so fatigued that she couldn't stand up again after the kick:

Lighting Fire Dragon Mode was put in Gajeel's level. Gajeel is a relevant fighter, but he isn't in Jellal, Erza, or Laxus's level. God Serena proves that.
Gajeel fought better against LFDM Natsu than Athena II, who was stomped and blitzed by Natsu even when he was only using physical attacks. Thus: Natsu/Gajeel > Athena II. Is there something impressive about Athena II being at this level? Nope.

It doesn't matter if Lucy can use or not the shield that she was only portrayed using without her will, Minerva will create great heat on the water and burn Lucy, or something like that with her manipulation of space. Jackals was scared by Lucy turning the battle in her favor and just bombed her multiple times, he didn't use the spell to turn people into bombs - this spell needs someone to physically touch Jackals' body. Jackals attacked the water barrier from outside, but Minerva can put her spatial wave within the barrier. I'm so sorry, but Minerva can easily attack Lucy within the shield.

 

[Rigel]

Erza's battle with Ennie was portrayed as a difficult one.
Erza was shown lying on the floor after being cut:

Erza stood up trembling for the final strike:

The narrative portrayed that Erza was fatigued and damaged by her battle against Ennie.

Even so, fatigued Erza was only beaten by Athena II on cqc because Erza was holding Natsu in her arms:

We can see that Erza was already so fatigued that she couldn't stand up again after the kick:

Lighting Fire Dragon Mode was put in Gajeel's level. Gajeel is a relevant fighter, but he isn't in Jellal, Erza, or Laxus's level. God Serena proves that.
Gajeel fought better against LFDM Natsu than Athena II, who was stomped and blitzed by Natsu even when he was only using physical attacks. Thus: Natsu/Gajeel > Athena II. Is there something impressive about Athena II being at this level? Nope.

It doesn't matter if Lucy can use or not the shield that she was only portrayed using without her will, Minerva will create great heat on the water and burn Lucy, or something like that with her manipulation of space. Jackals was scared by Lucy turning the battle in her favor and just bombed her multiple times, he didn't use the spell to turn people into bombs - this spell needs someone to physically touch Jackals' body. Jackals attacked the water barrier from inside, but Minerva can put her spatial wave within the barrier. I'm so sorry, but Minerva can easily attack Lucy within the shield.

I don't know why you brought up this fight against Ennie. Erza doesn't have any critical injuries, nothing major. Very different from the situations you mentioned previously. And Erza had magical power to transfer to Natsu later.

Comparing a fight in which Natsu was fighting friendly (without intent to kill) with Gajeel with a fight in which he wanted to destroy Athena V2 is not a good argument. Furthermore, Natsu and Gajeel are not bad at physical combat, on the contrary. They are light years above Minerva in this regard. So Athena V2 continues to be relevant in that aspect, and she didn't just beat Erza. She defeated the entire A-team (and Rogue) and Erza herself praised her strength.

Another thing, Athena V2 became stronger after Duke absorbed part of Natsu's magic. This amplified her physical stats.

Honestly, do you want to define that Lucy can't use Aquarius' water shield because Minerva is useless in front of it? Please. It's a Star Dress ability that Lucy has shown to be aware of (since she takes advantage of the barrier to use Uranometry), lol.

And if Jackal, who has a much more powerful and easily applicable curse, couldn't get past this defense, it won't be Minerva with these pathetic explosions that will.

And Lucy doesn't even need that shield, Minerva has no damage to hurt her. YG which is Minerva's best explosion spell, will not cause any damage to Lucy.

By the way, Lucy is able to cancel any spell that requires a chant, recitation, with the Aries Star Dress. So Minerva is unable to use more powerful explosions in combat against Lucy.

She doesn't do decent damage to Lucy's body, she can't overcome Lucy's defensive spells, and she also can't use her best explosions because Lucy can stop her.

Honestly, I don't know how you can't see Lucy's superiority over Minerva. It's so obvious to everyone.

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

I don't know why you brought up this fight against Ennie. Erza doesn't have any critical injuries, nothing major. Very different from the situations you mentioned previously. And Erza had magical power to transfer to Natsu later.

Comparing a fight in which Natsu was fighting friendly (without intent to kill) with Gajeel with a fight in which he wanted to destroy Athena V2 is not a good argument. Furthermore, Natsu and Gajeel are not bad at physical combat, on the contrary. They are light years above Minerva in this regard. So Athena V2 continues to be relevant in that aspect, and she didn't just beat Erza. She defeated the entire A-team (and Rogue) and Erza herself praised her strength.

Another thing, Athena V2 became stronger after Duke absorbed part of Natsu's magic. This amplified her physical stats.

Honestly, do you want to define that Lucy can't use Aquarius' water shield because Minerva is useless in front of it? Please. It's a Star Dress ability that Lucy has shown to be aware of (since she takes advantage of the barrier to use Uranometry), lol.

And if Jackal, who has a much more powerful and easily applicable curse, couldn't get past this defense, it won't be Minerva with these pathetic explosions that will.

And Lucy doesn't even need that shield, Minerva has no damage to hurt her. YG which is Minerva's best explosion spell, will not cause any damage to Lucy.

By the way, Lucy is able to cancel any spell that requires a chant, recitation, with the Aries Star Dress. So Minerva is unable to use more powerful explosions in combat against Lucy.

She doesn't do decent damage to Lucy's body, she can't overcome Lucy's defensive spells, and she also can't use her best explosions because Lucy can stop her.

Honestly, I don't know how you can't see Lucy's superiority over Minerva. It's so obvious to everyone.

Erza was on the floor after being cut by Ennie because it damaged her badly, or are you saying she didn't get up immediately because she is lazy?
In their battle against Youkou, Natsu and Erza weren't heavily injured, but the fatigue from this battle was the narrative advantage from Suzaku won easily against them. The fact all the beaten wizards could fight against Viernes shows that enough time has passed to recover them to some degree.
Gajeel could keep up with LFDM speed, and Athena II couldn't. I don't know where you took the argument that Natsu was fighting with killing intentions against Athena II, if he didn't try to kill even Duke. Natsu knows that Gajeel isn't made of paper and he could have used a relevant spell that would defeat him without killing him. Natsu just couldn't do that using the LFDM mode.

Maybe Athena II with three stolen powers can be someone above Natsu LFDM speed level, but she didn't prove it, because she just defeated fatigued wizards from other battles. Your argument with the Athenas is pretty shallow because they don't possess significant feats.
The fact that Minerva was often portrayed as someone able to keep up with casual battle mode Erza's speed and that she was hitting Historia-Wahl with physical attacks proves that Minerva can keep with Gajeel and Natsu's speed in theses forms.

The problem with Lucy's water shield is that during Tartaros Arc it was an automatic shield, which appears even without Lucy's intention. However, after this arc, the automatic shield doesn't appear anymore, so it seems like it was Aquarius's last will protecting Lucy or that the Celestial King put an automatic shield to help Lucy. We don't know if she learned how to create a water shield by herself because she doesn't appear using it. The only spell shown in the Aquarius Stardress is Aquametria, which was retconned to be a water spell. However, if Lucy learned the shield, her reaction time to activate it before being hit by the explosions is still something to consider.
Why Yagdo Rigora will cause no damage to Lucy? Was Lucy's endurance put on Erza's league?
Arie's wool just prevented Cana from talking and finishing the spell, because the wool covered her mouth. Cana was already very drunk lying on the floor.
If Minerva is standing, would the wool be big enough to cover her all and prevent her from talking? If Lucy casts it on her, Minerva switches places with Lucy and starts the incantation again.

However, let me remind you, that Minerva can cast a dimensional wave to immobilize her target while speaking the incantation (and Erza and Kagura couldn't escape from it before the incantation was finished), so I think it's not likely that Lucy would be able to escape from it and prevent the spell conclusion.

It's not Mashima writing a fight where Lucy needs to win, so Minerva will be unable to use her magic properly to lose the battle (as it happened a lot of times with Fairy Tail's enemies). We're comparing the power of the two witches, their feats, and the portrait about their levels in the manga without the heavy hand of the plot helping the protagonists. Minerva's magic can deal with everything that Lucy can cast. And Minerva is faster, and more skilled as a fighter than Lucy. Minerva never would put a shield of wool to counter Kiria's strong cuts, for example.

 

[Rigel]

Erza was on the floor after being cut by Ennie because it damaged her badly, or are you saying she didn't get up immediately because she is lazy?
In their battle against Youkou, Natsu and Erza weren't heavily injured, but the fatigue from this battle was the narrative advantage from Suzaku won easily against them. The fact all the beaten wizards could fight against Viernes shows that enough time has passed to recover them to some degree.
Gajeel could keep up with LFDM speed, and Athena II couldn't. I don't know where you took the argument that Natsu was fighting with killing intentions against Athena II, if he didn't try to kill even Duke. Natsu knows that Gajeel isn't made of paper and he could have used a relevant spell that would defeat him without killing him. Natsu just couldn't do that using the LFDM mode.

Maybe Athena II with three stolen powers can be someone above Natsu LFDM speed level, but she didn't prove it, because she just defeated fatigued wizards from other battles. Your argument with the Athenas is pretty shallow because they don't possess significant feats.
The fact that Minerva was often portrayed as someone able to keep up with casual battle mode Erza's speed and that she was hitting Historia-Wahl with physical attacks proves that Minerva can keep with Gajeel and Natsu's speed in theses forms.

The problem with Lucy's water shield is that during Tartaros Arc it was an automatic shield, which appears even without Lucy's intention. However, after this arc, the automatic shield doesn't appear anymore, so it seems like it was Aquarius's last will protecting Lucy or that the Celestial King put an automatic shield to help Lucy. We don't know if she learned how to create a water shield by herself because she doesn't appear using it. The only spell shown in the Aquarius Stardress is Aquametria, which was retconned to be a water spell. However, if Lucy learned the shield, her reaction time to activate it before being hit by the explosions is still something to consider.
Why Yagdo Rigora will cause no damage to Lucy? Was Lucy's endurance put on Erza's league?
Arie's wool just prevented Cana from talking and finishing the spell, because the wool covered her mouth. Cana was already very drunk lying on the floor.
If Minerva is standing, would the wool be big enough to cover her all and prevent her from talking? If Lucy casts it on her, Minerva switches places with Lucy and starts the incantation again.

However, let me remind you, that Minerva can cast a dimensional wave to immobilize her target while speaking the incantation (and Erza and Kagura couldn't escape from it before the incantation was finished), so I think it's not likely that Lucy would be able to escape from it and prevent the spell conclusion.

It's not Mashima writing a fight where Lucy needs to win, so Minerva will be unable to use her magic properly to lose the battle (as it happened a lot of times with Fairy Tail's enemies). We're comparing the power of the two witches, their feats, and the portrait about their levels in the manga without the heavy hand of the plot helping the protagonists. Minerva's magic can deal with everything that Lucy can cast. And Minerva is faster, and more skilled as a fighter than Lucy. Minerva never would put a shield of wool to counter Kiria's strong cuts, for example.

I intended to respond to your argument, but your hypocrisy is so blatant it is shameful. First you mention that my argument is superficial about the two Athenas and say that the deeds of the two characters are not relevant, and soon after that, you start to argue that Minerva was often portrayed as being able to keep up with Erza's casual speed... it's bizarre.

You create fictions about the way Mashima portrays Minerva and ignore the various mentions of the power of the two Antennae.

Minerva is not on Erza's level in any state. And she doesn't have any speed feats in the quest.

Athena V2 defeated Team A after receiving part of Natsu's magic to amplify her power level. And Erza mentioned how powerful Athena V2 was after this upgrade. Ironically, you don't consider it relevant, but you make a big party out of a scene where Minerva dodged a random attack from a plushie, when Erza and Jellal also dodged it.

Regarding Minerva's spells, I won't dwell on it. Aries' Star Dress interrupts any spell that needs to be recitation, Lucy explains this and attributes it to Aries' magic.

Minerva will not cast any spells that require recitation, as Lucy is able to make Aries' wool appear on the target (she did this at long range). And Minerva's pathetic immobilization spell is irrelevant, as it doesn't prevent the target from using magic.

Aquarius' shield is a Star Dress's spell, not a Spirit King spell. It is the power of Aquarius, which was granted by the King of Spirits through a celestial garment (he says so himself). The argument that Lucy is not able to use a spell of star dress that the King granted her is pure desperation on your part, since you are aware that this spell turns Minerva into a fodder in front of Lucy.

And the fact that Hiro didn't use the spell on other moments isn't anything innovative, he does it with character several (he constantly forgets the abilities of the characters).

And Lucy continues to render Minerva's spells useless. Additionally, Yagd Rigola is unable to cause any significant damage to Lucy's body, as are any of Minerva's other spells. Why? Do I need to explain the reason? It is serious? A pathetic spell that has no feats, completely outdated.

I have already refuted all your arguments about this character and you continue to bring up manga pages from of very old arcs back to illustrate a level of power that Minerva does not currently have.

In short, Minerva has no speed feats in the quest. And her entire display at the Golden Owl arch was just to entertain Luso Signario, who was playing with her.

Finally, this is my last post about this character and discussion. I don't care what you write anymore, since your interest is to win this discussion through wear.

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

I intended to respond to your argument, but your hypocrisy is so blatant it is shameful. First you mention that my argument is superficial about the two Athenas and say that the deeds of the two characters are not relevant, and soon after that, you start to argue that Minerva was often portrayed as being able to keep up with Erza's casual speed... it's bizarre.

You create fictions about the way Mashima portrays Minerva and ignore the various mentions of the power of the two Antennae.

Minerva is not on Erza's level in any state. And she doesn't have any speed feats in the quest.

Athena V2 defeated Team A after receiving part of Natsu's magic to amplify her power level. And Erza mentioned how powerful Athena V2 was after this upgrade. Ironically, you don't consider it relevant, but you make a big party out of a scene where Minerva dodged a random attack from a plushie, when Erza and Jellal also dodged it.

Regarding Minerva's spells, I won't dwell on it. Aries' Star Dress interrupts any spell that needs to be recitation, Lucy explains this and attributes it to Aries' magic.

Minerva will not cast any spells that require recitation, as Lucy is able to make Aries' wool appear on the target (she did this at long range). And Minerva's pathetic immobilization spell is irrelevant, as it doesn't prevent the target from using magic.

Aquarius' shield is a Star Dress's spell, not a Spirit King spell. It is the power of Aquarius, which was granted by the King of Spirits through a celestial garment (he says so himself). The argument that Lucy is not able to use a spell of star dress that the King granted her is pure desperation on your part, since you are aware that this spell turns Minerva into a fodder in front of Lucy.

And the fact that Hiro didn't use the spell on other moments isn't anything innovative, he does it with character several (he constantly forgets the abilities of the characters).

And Lucy continues to render Minerva's spells useless. Additionally, Yagd Rigola is unable to cause any significant damage to Lucy's body, as are any of Minerva's other spells. Why? Do I need to explain the reason? It is serious? A pathetic spell that has no feats, completely outdated.

I have already refuted all your arguments about this character and you continue to bring up manga pages from of very old arcs back to illustrate a level of power that Minerva does not currently have.

In short, Minerva has no speed feats in the quest. And her entire display at the Golden Owl arch was just to entertain Luso Signario, who was playing with her.

Finally, this is my last post about this character and discussion. I don't care what you write anymore, since your interest is to win this discussion through wear.

Sorry if I didn't buy a "wizard" that the narrative showed that Natsu LDFM could clean the floor with is a great physical combatant, someone who is in the league of Erza, Laxus, Jellal, etc. Erza said Kira was strong, but the manga rubs in your faces that Kiria is far way from Erza's level. "Strength" depends on the reference. Duke forced Natsu to stop fighting Athena II, because of the huge difference between their levels.

The manga is clear about the fact that Arie's wool just prevented Cana from speaking the incantation.

Like I said, Minerva would just switch places with Lucy and cast the Yagdo Rigora after putting Lucy inside the spatial wave. Lucy can't throw this wool before breaking the wave. She isn't fast enough to break it and prevent the incantation:

There is no desesperation. You're saying that a water barrier that, at first appeared without Lucy's will and, later, stopped doing it when Lucy is in the Aquarius Form is still part of Lucy's magic based on what, besides your desires? I already have said how Minerva would harm Lucy using this water barrier against her, so I'm not denying the existence of this barrier because Minerva can't overcome it, it's just that Lucy didn't show being able to use it on her own. If the Celestial King could give Aquarius power to Lucy, he could also have activated the water shield to help her.

Yeah, do you need to explain that Yagdo Rigora will not do anything to Lucy, since the only wizards who were hit by it and just got scratches were put far above Lucy's level (at the time of GMG). Minerva didn't stop at the time, since she could damage significantly Historia-Wahl, so based on what are you saying Lucy will receive YG from currently Minerva without taking any damage?

Lucy is the one who can't keep up with Minerva's speed of attacks, since she is portrayed in every fight being pressured by the enemies who can attack with quick repetition.

 

[Darklord#10]

@Ratrace @Garmadooon this is exactly what happens when you give fodderlings screen time and their fans start to overrate them or put them in places they do not belong.
This shit happened with Eileen, when people thought she was special and would fight a dragon god and how she was going to have that similar moment that natsu had in his heaven with zeref mavis and igneel lmao and I told them they're delusional they said I was toxic(true) , hated Eileen and erza(somewhat true)
Happened when laxus fanboys started wanking elexion only for him to be turned into spiced meat by George.

Erza fans disappeared during gold owl arc but wed came and they crawling out of their sewers.

The moment you give fodderlings a sniff of panel time their fans come crawling from the sewer like cockroaches and hyena looking to scavenge. I maybe toxic but I'm not stupid I know how this people behave, I've studied them

 

[Ratrace]

@Ratrace @Garmadooon this is exactly what happens when you give fodderlings screen time and their fans start to overrate them or put them in places they do not belong.

is that my problem. It’s also Hiro fault as well for making characters seem stronger than they really are though hypes and stuff like that

 

[Garmadooon]

@Ratrace @Garmadooon this is exactly what happens when you give fodderlings screen time and their fans start to overrate them or put them in places they do not belong.
This shit happened with Eileen, when people thought she was special and would fight a dragon god and how she was going to have that similar moment that natsu had in his heaven with zeref mavis and igneel lmao and I told them they're delusional they said I was toxic(true) , hated Eileen and erza(somewhat true)
Happened when laxus fanboys started wanking elexion only for him to be turned into spiced meat by George.

Erza fans disappeared during gold owl arc but wed came and they crawling out of their sewers.

The moment you give fodderlings a sniff of panel time their fans come crawling from the sewer like cockroaches and hyena looking to scavenge. I maybe toxic but I'm not stupid I know how this people behave, I've studied them

I mostly think it's a "fanbase" problem.

I must admit that I'm myself very toxic when it comes to wank Suzaku (and again I admit that he is one shot material Acno Igneel the DGs at full power Zeref DF Natsu and Black Faris).

It's not even about discussing who is stronger, it's just about protecting your favorites. Like people who think Irene is stronger than Zeref or Human Selene. They don't even have valid arguments, they make up excuses because they love her.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 10, 2024, Original Post Date: Aug 10, 2024 ---

is that my problem. It’s also Hiro fault as well for making characters seem stronger than they really are though hypes and stuff like that

And that's the problem, people exaggerate these feats to make their favorites appear stronger than they are.
Imagine thinking that Minerva beats current Lucy because of irrelevant feats against the fodder sisters.
Imagine thinking that Irene beats Selene or solos all of BDSK for defeating fodder Haku.
Imagine thinking Erza beats DF Natsu for defeating Misaki or for outdated POF feats in the OG serie.
These people will then cry about people wanking other characters even though they are the worst when it comes to their favorites.

 

[Ratrace]

And that's the problem, people exaggerate these feats to make their favorites appear stronger than they are.
Imagine thinking that Minerva beats current Lucy because of irrelevant feats against the fodder sisters.
Imagine thinking that Irene beats Selene or solos all of BDSK for defeating fodder Haku.
Imagine thinking Erza beats DF Natsu for defeating Misaki or for outdated POF feats in the OG serie.
These people will then cry about people wanking other characters even though they are the worst when it comes to their favorites.

that is true most feats are exaggerated, I know this probably wouldn‘t matter but I wish Hiro would make a power ranking chart show where everyone is at.

 

[Yunkers]

but I wish Hiro would make a power ranking chart show where everyone is at.

He did, but people don't agree with this

Who is the strongest for me? I don't care. It is a fictional story, mages are matched the way that good guys win, bad guys lose. No matter how strong bad guys are, they will lose somehow anyway. There's no need to think about it too much.

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

But it's not just the fact that Minerva could keep up with Luso's power that portrays her above Lucy. Minerva fought Historia-Wahl one-on-one (mostly off-scream of course), while Lucy just fought Jacob giving support to Natsu, and, after, she fought a pretended-to-be-fighting Brandish. The fact that Minerva is at Historia-Spriggans level puts her above Lucy's level, and the fact that Minerva fought Erza in regular battle mode from three arcs (GMG, Sun Village, and Tartaros) just proves that, although she isn't in the Erza's speed level, she is fast enough to exchange blows with the Titania.
Minerva's magic is good. Mashima downplays it in the narrative favor. For example, instead of teletransporting inside Luso's body, Minerva could have switched places with Ennie and the latter would be crushed by giant Luso's feat.
Against Lucy, Territory is very advantageous.