True that. Gildart in Tenrou was slightly weaker than post timeskip/current Natsu. About a couple of years has passed since returning from Tenrou and he must have gotten way stronger. His character has been portrayed as the touchstone of power in this story who always defeats his opponents with relative ease and elegance. No reason to believe Mashima will suddenly take him down now.
Well the first punch doesn't look like a crash imbued punch to me. I doubt Gildarts would risk it with Cana that close. Also, there's no destruction to the surrounding area which would be indicative of crash being used.
For the rest, some do seem like crash was used indeed, but most seem to be destruction from both their immense magic power clashing and bluenote's gravity being in play. The shockwave seems more of magic power to me. Gildarts was definitely fueling his punches with magic power, but not necessarily with crash. Would crash leave a shockwave? My impression is that it'll simply destroy stuff.
There for example, the shockwave isn't like a sweeping motion, it's more like arbitrary/haphazard destruction. There's no pattern to it. But in the clash with Bluenote, the shockwave is sweeping and in turn destroys most of the area and there was also the falling debris from above which Gildarts destroyed.
I went back to re-read, and in the last picture you linked, bluenote flipped a large part of the earth over Gildarts, Gildarts might've used crash to disintegrate it, but when he and bluenote clashed, what Lucy and the others commented on is their immense magical power, implying that was what caused the shockwaves. In tenrou, we saw when Gildarts released his MP and had Natsu shivering. Considering that, it makes sense that he and bluenote create shockwaves from clashing. It really doesn't seem like he was using crash (imo anyway)
True, bluenote pushed him while Serena defeated numerous enemies above that caliber. But on the other hand, Gildarts apparently survived against dragon Acnologia while Serena got One shotted. I do think he'll be able to solo (personally). He'll definitely be competitive though.
I guess when I see crash magic I am looking for the waves Gildarts creates. When Cana is on the ground Gildarts hand makes a circular wave, and then one that goes through the ground. It's just my interpretation of crash on panel. As for the Bluenote/Gildarts fist-bump, I think Lucy is talking about their magical power as in their type of magic, as well as the amount of power they have. Often magical power is used as a term to describe ability, and also MP level, and in Lucy's case I believe she's doing it for both. From the panel the shockwave packed a bit of power and had the crash look whirling around it.
Comparing the shockwave to the mountain punch I think 3 things come into play. 1) Bluenote was opposing Gildarts' magic, so there is a component of nullifying to some extent. Bluenote did say that even he was pushed back, referencing Gildarts as stronger. 2) The mountain in a magic-less body, and Gildarts punched it directly. The fist-bump on Tenrou was above the ground (and it hit Bluenote). As shockwave itself could split the ground like an earthquake if it was in the earth. 3) Mashima didn't want to bust Tenrou Island lol.
I am not sure I follow the Acno example though. Like I don't know what happened, just that Gildarts said it happened in an instant. His durability and Serena's obviously got breached majorly, so much that the offence>>their durability. So I can't really call it a feat that he survived, as Acno could have easily killed him. To me he just got more lucky than Serena that a vital wasn't taken - because the actual damage done is more or less the same. I do give Gildarts the credit of enduring and surviving such a horrific event. And if Mashima really wants to hype Gildarts (I don't think he has to) he could bring this fight with Acnologia back up again should Gildarts make a return. Edit: Also if we're going to use Gildarts survival against Acnologia as a feat, then does that put Gildarts above Igneel for endurance/durability etc?
Edit: Also when Bluenote flipped that rock, Gildarts used disassemble magic to split it into pieces. He used this magic against Natsu, and when he cracked Blackhole. Well I think it's different from crash. Or it is crash magic, but is used in a different way. It doesn't really matter.
First of All I don't think It is right to compare Gildarts and God Serena.God Serena recieved a Fatal Blow in his Right Abdomen.Gildarts lost an arm,One Leg and one Internal Organ.It was not in any of his Vital Organ.God Serena's entire Right Abdomen was blown away.
2.Natsu has definetly surpassed Gildarts.In The Chapter Where Natsu One Shotted Bluenote It was said Bluenote fought with Gildarts On Equal Terms.Natsu defeated him Very Easily Which Gildarts Failed To Do.It is through this Fight Hiro potrayed that Natsu Surpassed Gildarts.
In The Silent Chapter Natsu fought Gildarts in his Base State.I Want to know what his DF would have fared against Gildarts at that Time.Even Though Gildarts would have Won Still It would have been good to see it.
Makarov Said That Jura's Powerlevel was very near to Gildarts in GMG.We Know How Power That is?
Gildarts basically reached the Prime of His Energy.So Most Probably We Will not See him Stronger than Tenrou.
I read the chapter and watched the anime episode just now. I thought Gildarts destroyed the town by accident, causing drastic measures whenever he arrives, but it was only a precaution because if he makes contact with any home, they get destroyed. So he didn't really destroy the town before. My mistake. In the anime Mira said he is the strongest ft member. Erza admitted she can't compare to him. That was long ago and everyone else got stronger. In the manga, the chapter after introducing Gildarts, the first picture shows Gildarts and said he's 45 years old. He's probably around fifty now. Gildarts told Natsu about his encounter with a black dragon, Acnologia, and that the description was the same as how we can describe Serena's encounter. Gildarts said it happened in an instant. It's because of that dragon that the 100 year quest was a failure. Either Gildarts had extreme bad luck or the quest has some kind of connection to Acnologia.
I also doubt he got stronger physically because of his age. But magic power and skills can always improve. August is a great example for that. The thing about Gildarts physical strength is that It's hard to gauge. Against Bluenote they had a fist to fist punch with Bluenote being pushed back. How serious Gildarts was is hard to tell. But it was Bluenote making sounds like "Grrr" when they traded punches. Gildarts was pretty quiet. The next scene was Gildarts getting punched in the face saying "Why you!" They both butted heads so at that point it seemed as if they were evenly matched in physical strength. Next scene was Gildarts breathing hard and then falls. It was not because Gildarts was overwhelmed, it's because the Tenrou tree fell in the middle of their fight sucking at his strength. That's the cause of misunderstanding.
Wasn't just magic power being drained, physical too, otherwise they'd all be overreacting falling and laying down. But after Azuma was defeated, he kept his promise and returned strength to ft members. The tree was not up yet so ft didn't get the Tenrou power up until late in their fight with Hades. That's when Ultear brought the tree back. Next scene was Bluenote stomping on Gildarts face, with the ground shaking from each stomp. Gildarts regains his strength, due to Azuma's defeat, stops the stomping and gets his first hit in which sends Bluenote flying into the boulder. First hit if you don't count fist to fist or head to head. Bluenote creates a black hole attempting to suck Gildarts in. Gildarts uses crash magic to destroy the black hole. Lands his second punch sending Bluenote flying into the sky like a bright shining star that opened up the clouds.
It's possible Gildarts held back his punches until later. Maybe not. Natsu did not use physicality on Bluenote. He didn't feel the gravity magic. He just simply lit him up with a very powerful fire attack, and did it with ease and no fatigue. Note that gravity magic had no effect on Gildarts either. I'm not sure if gravity magic was used on Gildarts though. He wasn't seen until all the fighting was over, chatting with Laxus. He didn't get hurt fighting. All you see is dirt or scratches from getting his face stomped. lol I did not see any evidence of Gildarts giving his all or pushed to his limits in this fight. He only hit Bluenote twice.
After the 7 year skip Natsu fought Byro and couldn't use magic, because Byro had the ability to nullify magic. Natsu was ineffective in a physical fight. It was Gildarts that beat him and did it easily. As reesestl said, Gildarts held back until the others left because he didn't want Byro to be embarrassed. Byro is actually a good guy and I wouldn't be surprised if he is by Gildarts side in this war.
From the story so far, I predict Gildarts can solo any spriggan, maybe except August. It would be a toss up against August. We've still to see the extent of his magic, or pushed to his limits. He hasn't bled yet either. Nor has he given any kind of attack that got him out of breath. I did say he was out of breath and fell against Bluenote, but that was due to the Tenrou tree.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I'm questioning if Acnologia is at an unmeasurable power level with his own strength or the souls of dragons he absorbed including Igneel's soul and the others. Those bright blue colored tattoos or marks also look like the color of souls. Kinda like how Natsu had a dragon mark when he had the power to activate Igneel's power. The story or legend is that Acnologia killed all dragons and he bathed in their blood. That might not be completely true. Same way the Zeref followers make up all this nonsense like sacrificing themselves to summon Zeref. Acnologia stole Igneel's soul without killing him. The dragons stayed inside the ds to create antibodies and to prolong their lives due to their souls being taken. That might have been the real way Acnologia killed dragons, most of the time. Just like Franmalth who had strength because of the souls he took. After losing to Natsu all souls were released leaving Franmalth powerless. Acnologia is most likely not weak even without any souls. He might not even be powered by any souls to begin with. But if what Gildarts said is true and that no human can fight that black dragon, how did Acnologia get that strong, assuming he is human to begin with? Or is it simply the power up from dragonification?
I read the chapter and watched the anime episode just now. I thought Gildarts destroyed the town by accident, causing drastic measures whenever he arrives, but it was only a precaution because if he makes contact with any home, they get destroyed. So he didn't really destroy the town before. My mistake. In the anime Mira said he is the strongest ft member. Erza admitted she can't compare to him. That was long ago and everyone else got stronger. In the manga, the chapter after introducing Gildarts, the first picture shows Gildarts and said he's 45 years old. He's probably around fifty now. Gildarts told Natsu about his encounter with a black dragon, Acnologia, and that the description was the same as how we can describe Serena's encounter. Gildarts said it happened in an instant. It's because of that dragon that the 100 year quest was a failure. Either Gildarts had extreme bad luck or the quest has some kind of connection to Acnologia.
I also doubt he got stronger physically because of his age. But magic power and skills can always improve. August is a great example for that. The thing about Gildarts physical strength is that It's hard to gauge. Against Bluenote they had a fist to fist punch with Bluenote being pushed back. How serious Gildarts was is hard to tell. But it was Bluenote making sounds like "Grrr" when they traded punches. Gildarts was pretty quiet. The next scene was Gildarts getting punched in the face saying "Why you!" They both butted heads so at that point it seemed as if they were evenly matched in physical strength. Next scene was Gildarts breathing hard and then falls. It was not because Gildarts was overwhelmed, it's because the Tenrou tree fell in the middle of their fight sucking at his strength. That's the cause of misunderstanding.
Wasn't just magic power being drained, physical too, otherwise they'd all be overreacting falling and laying down. But after Azuma was defeated, he kept his promise and returned strength to ft members. The tree was not up yet so ft didn't get the Tenrou power up until late in their fight with Hades. That's when Ultear brought the tree back. Next scene was Bluenote stomping on Gildarts face, with the ground shaking from each stomp. Gildarts regains his strength, due to Azuma's defeat, stops the stomping and gets his first hit in which sends Bluenote flying into the boulder. First hit if you don't count fist to fist or head to head. Bluenote creates a black hole attempting to suck Gildarts in. Gildarts uses crash magic to destroy the black hole. Lands his second punch sending Bluenote flying into the sky like a bright shining star that opened up the clouds.
It's possible Gildarts held back his punches until later. Maybe not. Natsu did not use physicality on Bluenote. He didn't feel the gravity magic. He just simply lit him up with a very powerful fire attack, and did it with ease and no fatigue. Note that gravity magic had no effect on Gildarts either. I'm not sure if gravity magic was used on Gildarts though. He wasn't seen until all the fighting was over, chatting with Laxus. He didn't get hurt fighting. All you see is dirt or scratches from getting his face stomped. lol I did not see any evidence of Gildarts giving his all or pushed to his limits in this fight. He only hit Bluenote twice.
After the 7 year skip Natsu fought Byro and couldn't use magic, because Byro had the ability to nullify magic. Natsu was ineffective in a physical fight. It was Gildarts that beat him and did it easily. As reesestl said, Gildarts held back until the others left because he didn't want Byro to be embarrassed. Byro is actually a good guy and I wouldn't be surprised if he is by Gildarts side in this war.
From the story so far, I predict Gildarts can solo any spriggan, maybe except August. It would be a toss up against August. We've still to see the extent of his magic, or pushed to his limits. He hasn't bled yet either. Nor has he given any kind of attack that got him out of breath. I did say he was out of breath and fell against Bluenote, but that was due to the Tenrou tree.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I'm questioning if Acnologia is at an unmeasurable power level with his own strength or the souls of dragons he absorbed including Igneel's soul and the others. Those bright blue colored tattoos or marks also look like the color of souls. Kinda like how Natsu had a dragon mark when he had the power to activate Igneel's power. The story or legend is that Acnologia killed all dragons and he bathed in their blood. That might not be completely true. Same way the Zeref followers make up all this nonsense like sacrificing themselves to summon Zeref. Acnologia stole Igneel's soul without killing him. The dragons stayed inside the ds to create antibodies and to prolong their lives due to their souls being taken. That might have been the real way Acnologia killed dragons, most of the time. Just like Franmalth who had strength because of the souls he took. After losing to Natsu all souls were released leaving Franmalth powerless. Acnologia is most likely not weak even without any souls. He might not even be powered by any souls to begin with. But if what Gildarts said is true and that no human can fight that black dragon, how did Acnologia get that strong, assuming he is human to begin with? Or is it simply the power up from dragonification?
This is a good analysis but some of it is subjective, I mean where's the actual proof Gildarts did not use the majority of his power against Bluenote, i'm struggling to understand how people really believe that Gildarts was so much more powerful than Bluenote i mean we were shown that they had been fighting off panel for some time if Gildarts is leagues above him than it should not have taken that much time plus i feel people don't bring this up enough but it was said the tenrou tree enhances the magic power of Fairy tail members so really its's not inconceivable to think bluenote would have been equal with or more powerful than Gildarts had it not been on tenrou, That's not something i would say personally i just think its worth mentioning, again it's all subjective but the portrayal i feel is rather obvious and that is Gildarts was not that much more powerful than Bluenote at the time, He may be more powerful now he also may not, i do believe he will be personally because he will have had too because that's one of the only people that can reinforce Fairy tail now. That said him soloing a spriggan may or may not happen, the power levels in Fairy tail are quite inconsistent even for a shonen so who knows. i also do not believe 5 years has passed by any means maybe like 2 years or so i would say but there really have not been that many moments where it has been referenced that the time between arcs is long at all.
This is a good analysis but some of it is subjective, I mean where's the actual proof Gildarts did not use the majority of his power against Bluenote, i'm struggling to understand how people really believe that Gildarts was so much more powerful than Bluenote i mean we were shown that they had been fighting off panel for some time if Gildarts is leagues above him than it should not have taken that much time plus i feel people don't bring this up enough but it was said the tenrou tree enhances the magic power of Fairy tail members so really its's not inconceivable to think bluenote would have been equal with or more powerful than Gildarts had it not been on tenrou, That's not something i would say personally i just think its worth mentioning, again it's all subjective but the portrayal i feel is rather obvious and that is Gildarts was not that much more powerful than Bluenote at the time, He may be more powerful now he also may not, i do believe he will be personally because he will have had too because that's one of the only people that can reinforce Fairy tail now. That said him soloing a spriggan may or may not happen, the power levels in Fairy tail are quite inconsistent even for a shonen so who knows. i also do not believe 5 years has passed by any means maybe like 2 years or so i would say but there really have not been that many moments where it has been referenced that the time between arcs is long at all.
I also thought Gildarts and Bluenote were evenly matched when I first watched it years ago. Watched it again this week. How does one guy who was helpless getting kicked in the face, get up with no Tenrou power anymore, and finish Bluenote off in one punch? Even when Natsu and Gajeel fought the demon gates, they were getting beaten. They upped their game and things fluctuated on who was winning. The demons transformed and got serious. That's when the ds did too and both used two of their elements. It was back and forth depending on how much effort they were giving. Kinda like how Natsu fought Bakel in this arc, Gajeel fought Kareem. They knew they'd win and didn't want to overdo it to save energy because of Alvarez numbers. But Natsu uppercut Bakel in the sky the same way Gildarts did Bluenote.
It's not likely that two warriors of equal power can simply send one flying to end the fight just like that. Also when they are evenly matched, you see physical damage, and exhaustion. Determination and skills come into play. I can't remember ft mages one shot unknown and supposedly strong new enemies. Bluenote in the avatar arc was there to show off how strong Natsu got. Gray stopped Natsu while undercover and put him in jail. Laxus stopped Ajeel's attack with a very large lightning attack. Natsu so excited to see Laxus and wowed by his strength as usual that he wants to fight. Size of attacks does prove how much magic power they have. All of these were clues and ideas of what to expect from this point on. There is no inconsistency in my opinion if you were catching these hints. The guys who went to Tenrou are not likely to slack off and have some of them left behind in strength, while others went ahead. Power levels ranking between ft mages are probably still the same as before the skip, but on a higher scale of power. They were all there to see Natsu destroy Ikusatsunagi. None of them looked overwhelmed by it. Otherwise guys like Gajeel would be scared of Natsu or be nervous and insecure challenging him to fight. During the war while, fighting Ajeel's top soldiers, both Natsu and Gajeel were worn out a bit, not one doing better than the other. Proving Natsu did not go ahead of them in another class.
Gildarts did have an aura while fighting Bluenote, but not as much as when he freaked Natsu out. That's why I don't think he was at full power magic wise. Also I could only visibly see him using crash magic on the land that went upside down on him. The other was after the tree fell and he broke Bluenote's black hole.
I gave my prediction and reasons why Gildarts is very much relevant. I said it clear that the first punch Gildarts and Bluenote landed sent Bluenote back. In the anime it doesn't help that Bluenote was making sounds proving he's putting effort, while Gildarts did not and had a very composed look. Then I said they clashed heads and that made me believe they were evenly matched. But then the tree goes down, Gilarts is seen breathing hard and falls. That's where I said people might have taken into consideration and credited Bluenote for that. Even though it was not caused by him. Again, if Bluenote was really an equal match that took Gildarts to deep waters why was Gildarts left uninjured and ended it in one swing? Can that really happen if they are the same level? Not all of this can be answered until or if he joins the battle. Until then we can only speculate and give reasons why he's now trash or still extremely strong. Paying attention to detail does not make one subjective. If you can prove it then I have no reason to disagree. Everyone sees things differently. So it happens.
I also thought Gildarts and Bluenote were evenly matched when I first watched it years ago. Watched it again this week. How does one guy who was helpless getting kicked in the face, get up with no Tenrou power anymore, and finish Bluenote off in one punch? Even when Natsu and Gajeel fought the demon gates, they were getting beaten. They upped their game and things fluctuated on who was winning. The demons transformed and got serious. That's when the ds did too and both used two of their elements. It was back and forth depending on how much effort they were giving. Kinda like how Natsu fought Bakel in this arc, Gajeel fought Kareem. They knew they'd win and didn't want to overdo it to save energy because of Alvarez numbers. But Natsu uppercut Bakel in the sky the same way Gildarts did Bluenote.
It's not likely that two warriors of equal power can simply send one flying to end the fight just like that. Also when they are evenly matched, you see physical damage, and exhaustion. Determination and skills come into play. I can't remember ft mages one shot unknown and supposedly strong new enemies. Bluenote in the avatar arc was there to show off how strong Natsu got. Gray stopped Natsu while undercover and put him in jail. Laxus stopped Ajeel's attack with a very large lightning attack. Natsu so excited to see Laxus and wowed by his strength as usual that he wants to fight. Size of attacks does prove how much magic power they have. All of these were clues and ideas of what to expect from this point on. There is no inconsistency in my opinion if you were catching these hints. The guys who went to Tenrou are not likely to slack off and have some of them left behind in strength, while others went ahead. Power levels ranking between ft mages are probably still the same as before the skip, but on a higher scale of power. They were all there to see Natsu destroy Ikusatsunagi. None of them looked overwhelmed by it. Otherwise guys like Gajeel would be scared of Natsu or be nervous and insecure challenging him to fight. During the war while, fighting Ajeel's top soldiers, both Natsu and Gajeel were worn out a bit, not one doing better than the other. Proving Natsu did not go ahead of them in another class.
Gildarts did have an aura while fighting Bluenote, but not as much as when he freaked Natsu out. That's why I don't think he was at full power magic wise. Also I could only visibly see him using crash magic on the land that went upside down on him. The other was after the tree fell and he broke Bluenote's black hole.
I gave my prediction and reasons why Gildarts is very much relevant. I said it clear that the first punch Gildarts and Bluenote landed sent Bluenote back. In the anime it doesn't help that Bluenote was making sounds proving he's putting effort, while Gildarts did not and had a very composed look. Then I said they clashed heads and that made me believe they were evenly matched. But then the tree goes down, Gilarts is seen breathing hard and falls. That's where I said people might have taken into consideration and credited Bluenote for that. Even though it was not caused by him. Again, if Bluenote was really an equal match that took Gildarts to deep waters why was Gildarts left uninjured and ended it in one swing? Can that really happen if they are the same level? Not all of this can be answered until or if he joins the battle. Until then we can only speculate and give reasons why he's now trash or still extremely strong. Paying attention to detail does not make one subjective. If you can prove it then I have no reason to disagree. Everyone sees things differently. So it happens.
I was not referencing the paying attention to detail as subjective it's really just the whole Gildarts vs Bluenote battle it's quite hard to tell based on what your saying about comparing other fights across time skips and whether he was using full power based on an aura that Gildarts is indeed more powerful by a decent margin than Bluenote, i also don't see how you can say he was uninjured how can you know that? He was down not knocked out mind you but was exhausted after the battle, that might have been due to the beating he took after he lost his power but we can't know how much damage he took before or after that event. I should also point out that Fairy tail is infamous for having the villain only take a couple hits and than there down so saying he hit him twice to me does not prove anything especially when like I said they were fighting off panel for some time therefore it is very likely he was hit more than twice backed up by the fact that they both had visible scratches and marks. All in all your right just different views on this one but I don't disagree with the fact like I said he will be brought back and be credible power wise Mashima would never bring him back just to look like a chump lol.
I was not referencing the paying attention to detail as subjective it's really just the whole Gildarts vs Bluenote battle it's quite hard to tell based on what your saying about comparing other fights across time skips and whether he was using full power based on an aura that Gildarts is indeed more powerful by a decent margin than Bluenote, i also don't see how you can say he was uninjured how can you know that he was down not knocked out min you but was exhausted after the battle, that might have been due to the beating he took after he lost his power but we can't know how much damage he took before or after that event. I should also point out that Fairy tail is infamous for having the villain only take a couple hits and than there down so saying he hit him twice to me does not prove anything especially when like I said they were fighting off panel for some time therefore it is very likely he was hit more than twice backed up by the fact that they both had visible scratches and marks. All in all your right just different views on this one but I don't disagree with the fact like I said he will be brought back and be credible power wise Mashima would never bring him back just to look like a chump lol.
It's very much possible that I'm overrating Gildarts. But he's still a mystery. And until I've seen him huffing and puffing or badly injured I'm not convinced he's given his all or even really tried. Physical strength I think he's shown enough, but his magic was barely used. All the time skip stuff mentioned was to say there were clues and hints that they are substantially stronger than they were a year back. Therefore there's no inconsistency due to or since the skip. I'll end the Gildarts debate there as there's no solid proof to clear this up.
Well that is a no brainer for me. I never doubted that gildartz is One of the strongest, even now. He basically one shotted bluenote, firepower explained that Very well. I expect him to save cana and fight Jacob or august.
@Balfredmcgee I see now what your talking about Gildarts damage. I got my source from the anime where he never bled. In the manga his mouth was clearly bleeding from the face stomps.
@Balfredmcgee I see now what your talking about Gildarts damage. I got my source from the anime where he never bled. In the manga his mouth was clearly bleeding from the face stomps.
Yeah like i said who knows how much damage he received before and after the tree fell but i think we can both agree that seeing him show up soon should be super interesting.
I will not consider asspulls/plot armors and one time attacks like Natsu's Fire Dragon King Mode but will consider previous feats.
1. Acnologia
2. Zeref
3. 12 Spriggans, there is just no way any of Ishgar's wizards can beat any one of this group without asspulls, plot armors and cooperative attacks.
4. Gods of Ishgar, Makarov, Gildartz, Jellal, Laxus and Natsu
5. Ultear, Erza, Mirajane, Minerva, Kagura, Gajeel, Gray, Wendy, Sting, Rogue, Cobra and Midnight
6. Juvia, Meredy, Orga, Rufus, Lyon, Sheria, Ichiya, Bacchus, other active members of Oracion Seis & Grimoire Heart guild (Crime Sociere now?)
7. Lucy, Cana, Elfman, Thunder God Tribe, Yukino
I will not consider asspulls/plot armors and one time attacks like Natsu's Fire Dragon King Mode but will consider previous feats.
1. Acnologia
2. Zeref
3. 12 Spriggans, there is just no way any of Ishgar's wizards can beat any one of this group without asspulls, plot armors and cooperative attacks.
4. Gods of Ishgar, Makarov, Gildartz, Jellal, Laxus and Natsu
5. Ultear, Erza, Mirajane, Minerva, Kagura, Gajeel, Gray, Wendy, Sting, Rogue, Cobra and Midnight
6. Juvia, Meredy, Orga, Rufus, Lyon, Sheria, Ichiya, Bacchus, other active members of Oracion Seis & Grimoire Heart guild (Crime Sociere now?)
7. Lucy, Cana, Elfman, Thunder God Tribe, Yukino
Which plot armor or asspulls do you mean? There are only a few I've seen. The only one I can think of right now is how Natsu cracked Gajeel's metal. If he was to win it should have been from melting iron. Gajeel should be the one doing the cracking not the other way around. Gajeel should be able to do some meteor shower of knives sharp objects and steel boulders. It seems as if any metal he creates has to be an extension to his body which is not the case. In this war he made several of them around Levy during the night. I do feel Natsu was better than Gajeel, but didn't like how Natsu beat him. And the only reason why I thought Natsu won was because he had more reason to fight while Gajeel was fighting for the sake of just fighting invading ft guild. Conviction and motivation aren't that different from nakama.
Which plot armor or asspulls do you mean? There are only a few I've seen. The only one I can think of right now is how Natsu cracked Gajeel's metal. If he was to win it should have been from melting iron. Gajeel should be the one doing the cracking not the other way around. Gajeel should be able to do some meteor shower of knives sharp objects and steel boulders. It seems as if any metal he creates has to be an extension to his body which is not the case. In this war he made several of them around Levy during the night. I do feel Natsu was better than Gajeel, but didn't like how Natsu beat him. And the only reason why I thought Natsu won was because he had more reason to fight while Gajeel was fighting for the sake of just fighting invading ft guild. Conviction and motivation aren't that different from nakama.
In this war in particular, disengaging Brandish, one of the stronger spriggan who can disable most if not all of Ishgar's wizards, by an allergy to pollen and Laxus' asspull lightning that is not lightning attack to defeat Wahl.
In this war in particular, disengaging Brandish, one of the stronger spriggan who can disable most if not all of Ishgar's wizards, by an allergy to pollen and Laxus' asspull lightning that is not lightning attack to defeat Wahl.
Brandish will show what she can do soon enough. I strongly disagree with what you're saying about Laxus. That argument is already going on right now on the last two pages of the Laxus thread, if you want to give your take on it there. That's no asspull if he can use red lightning at will, which I'm guessing he can.
In this war in particular, disengaging Brandish, one of the stronger spriggan who can disable most if not all of Ishgar's wizards, by an allergy to pollen and Laxus' asspull lightning that is not lightning attack to defeat Wahl.
What really bugs me is when people hold a set of beliefs which are incompatible. A lot of this comes from too much wishful thinking (GOI are the strongest mages in Ishgar! Ajeel is weakest Spriggan!!) while ignoring the evidence that contradicts it. For example, the following is not uncommon on this forum:
1) One tier is a meaningful difference of strength.
2) Ajeel is one tier (or more) above Erza.
3) Individual GOI (Hyberion) or Jura > Erza.
Let's temporarily assume that all of the above are true. Erza is one tier below Ajeel due to being "low-diffed" by Sand World, Ajeel's strongest spell. But the combined GOI didn't even scratch non-serious Serena in their offpanel fight, and their combo attack against unguarded Serena failed to deal any significant damage. And God Serena instantly fodderized them with casual DS magic. Based on the above definition of one tier, the combined GOI would be three tiers or more below Serena. The GOI individually are weaker than the GOI combined by two tiers (Hyberion + Wolfheim + Warrod + Jura >> Hyberion obviously), meaning there would be about a five tier difference between Hyberion and God Serena. Hyberion would be about as strong as Ajeel, so God Serena would be five tiers above Ajeel. And August >> God Serena, so he would be about seven tiers higher than Ajeel.
What this essentially says is that the Spriggan 12 cover eight different tiers (1-2 Spriggans per tier) with significant power differences between each tier. Meaning that August would probably one-shot the 6 weakest Spriggans combined with casual country level attacks. And beat Ajeel with a sneeze. In case this has not been made adequately clear yet, this scenario is ridiculous. The logical course of action would be to conclude that at least one of the three statements we started with must be incorrect. Replacing Erza with Laxus and Ajeel with Wahl gives a slightly less common, but no less unlikely set of beliefs.
What really bugs me is when people hold a set of beliefs which are incompatible. A lot of this comes from too much wishful thinking (GOI are the strongest mages in Ishgar! Ajeel is weakest Spriggan!!) while ignoring the evidence that contradicts it. For example, the following is not uncommon on this forum:
1) One tier is a meaningful difference of strength.
2) Ajeel is one tier (or more) above Erza.
3) Individual GOI (Hyberion) or Jura > Erza.
Let's temporarily assume that all of the above are true. Erza is one tier below Ajeel due to being "low-diffed" by Sand World, Ajeel's strongest spell. But the combined GOI didn't even scratch non-serious Serena in their offpanel fight, and their combo attack against unguarded Serena failed to deal any significant damage. And God Serena instantly fodderized them with casual DS magic. Based on the above definition of one tier, the combined GOI would be three tiers or more below Serena. The GOI individually are weaker than the GOI combined by two tiers (Hyberion + Wolfheim + Warrod + Jura >> Hyberion obviously), meaning there would be about a five tier difference between Hyberion and God Serena. Hyberion would be about as strong as Ajeel, so God Serena would be five tiers above Ajeel. And August >> God Serena, so he would be about seven tiers higher than Ajeel.
What this essentially says is that the Spriggan 12 cover eight different tiers (1-2 Spriggans per tier) with significant power differences between each tier. Meaning that August would probably one-shot the 6 weakest Spriggans combined with casual country level attacks. And beat Ajeel with a sneeze. In case this has not been made adequately clear yet, this scenario is ridiculous. The logical course of action would be to conclude that at least one of the three statements we started with must be incorrect. Replacing Erza with Laxus and Ajeel with Wahl gives a slightly less common, but no less unlikely set of beliefs.
If the two statements were true, that would imply the last statement. However, current Jura is not comparable to Laxus or Erza in terms of feats. If one tier is defined to be the difference between Laxus and Jura, Erza would not be one tier below Laxus.
1) Tenrou Gildart 1 tier above Bluenote
2) current Natsu 2 tier above BN
So Tenrou Gildart + 1 tier = Current Natsu.
Main character :
1.gildartz( n maybe laxus)
2. Laxus jellal (maybe natsu)
3.natsu
4.gray
5.gajil erza mira jura WS
6.makarov oracion seis
7. kagura minerva lyon bacchus orga rufus elfman
8.wendy sheria sting rogue mest
9.juvia lucy meldy
10. The others
The viliain
1. Acnologia
2. Zeref august
3. God serena wahl dimaria invel
4. Neinhart brandish ajeel bloodman jacob n the 2 others
5. Captains
6.soldiers
