A legit case can be made for Natsu base > God Serena's DS moves, in terms of both damage output and AoE. Depends on how highly you rate the wizard saints durability compared to Bluenotes, someone who was comparable to Jura pre-skip. If GoI/Jura >> Bluenote then obviously God Serena is better. If Bluenote is comparable to Jura still (let's say slightly inferior) then it starts to swing base Natsu's way.
God Serena quite literally lacks feats in every other department apart from offensive power and durability due to no screen time. I'd give the offence to Natsu, and the durability to God Serena (didn't get damaged from Wolfheim's punch). Magic power imo is in God Serena's favour.
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I can see Laxus nuking the WS and winning in a similar fashion to God Serena. Laxus hasn't used dragon slayer spells yet either.
If God Serena can combine all 8 elements like you say it would change things dramatically. I'm not so sure we saw only a tip of the iceberg, I think there can be secret arts.
I don't see God Serena as a yard stick to indicate Acnologia's power. I see it as an indicator of how low Spriggan's are compared to Acnologia. Acnologia's true power was tested against Igneel, where a mountain sized roar was 'casual' and it did nothing to Acno, ie a roar that is many times more powerful than any of Serena's attacks.
I think it has been established that Jura was nowhere near GOI's strength, it has also been established that Jura trained constantly for those seven years that Fairy Tail were on Tenrou Island, nothing stated that Bluenote grew stronger after Gildrats wrecked him...... I could be wrong. If nothing has stated that he trained and grew stronger than I doubt that he is anywhere near Jura's level, this is confirmed by the fact that he only attacked Lamia Scale when Jura was away.
A legit case can be made for Natsu base > God Serena's DS moves, in terms of both damage output and AoE. Depends on how highly you rate the wizard saints durability compared to Bluenotes, someone who was comparable to Jura pre-skip. If GoI/Jura >> Bluenote then obviously God Serena is better. If Bluenote is comparable to Jura still (let's say slightly inferior) then it starts to swing base Natsu's way.
God Serena quite literally lacks feats in every other department apart from offensive power and durability due to no screen time. I'd give the offence to Natsu, and the durability to God Serena (didn't get damaged from Wolfheim's punch). Magic power imo is in God Serena's favour.
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I can see Laxus nuking the WS and winning in a similar fashion to God Serena. Laxus hasn't used dragon slayer spells yet either.
If God Serena can combine all 8 elements like you say it would change things dramatically. I'm not so sure we saw only a tip of the iceberg, I think there can be secret arts.
I don't see God Serena as a yard stick to indicate Acnologia's power. I see it as an indicator of how low Spriggan's are compared to Acnologia. Acnologia's true power was tested against Igneel, where a mountain sized roar was 'casual' and it did nothing to Acno, ie a roar that is many times more powerful than any of Serena's attacks.
Think about it, Laxus gains the power of mages that were leagues above him in only a year?! That power scale jump makes little to no sense whatsoever. He might be close to them though. We do not know all that the GOI can actually accomplish and remember G. Serena took them out at first without his dragon arts.
You are right there, how about yardstick to Acnologia's strength when in human form whilst being a testament to the vast difference in all-around battle skills when compared to the Spriggan 12.
But his FDK Spells in Chapter 463 was in his Base state.He may use Fire D's Magic to cancel out God Serena's Spells and physically fight to take down God Serena.
The only physical attack that took down God Serena was Acnologia's, Wolfhiem in his beast form barely injured Serena physically, Jura also did next to no damage, I doubt Natsu is winning that fight, if Natsu somehow cancels out spells using Fire dragonslaying magic then Serena can still consume the flames that he uses, the only way that Natsu wins this fight is if he physically pummels Serena down without using magic and I seriously doubt that will work.
When was the last time Natsu took down a top tier opponent without using magic?
Also don't forget that Serena has magic that isn't even Dragonslaying magic and of his dragonslaying magic he still has 4 more Lacrimas to show, I literally cannot see Natsu winning this fight whatsoever.
The only physical attack that took down God Serena was Acnologia's, Wolfhiem in his beast form barely injured Serena physically, Jura also did next to no damage, I doubt Natsu is winning that fight, if Natsu somehow cancels out spells using Fire dragonslaying magic then Serena can still consume the flames that he uses, the only way that Natsu wins this fight is if he physically pummels Serena down without using magic and I sereiously doubt that will work.
When was the last time Natsu took down a top tier opponent without using magic?
Also don't forget that Serena has magic that isn't even Dragonslaying magic and of his dragonslaying magic he still has 4 more Lacrimas to show, I literally cannot see Natsu winning this fight whatsoever.
I think it has been established that Jura was nowhere near GOI's strength, it has also been established that Jura trained constantly for those seven years that Fairy Tail were on Tenrou Island, nothing stated that Bluenote grew stronger after Gildrats wrecked him...... I could be wrong. If nothing has stated that he trained and grew stronger than I doubt that he is anywhere near Jura's level, this is confirmed by the fact that he only attacked Lamia Scale when Jura was away.
Jura endured the wrath of Serena in pretty much the same way as the GoI. In terms of magic he might be well below Warrod. But in durability - which is how you sustain damage - they were portrayed as peers.
Bluenote's durability I rate as better better than GMG Jura's. Jura was getting beat up by Laxus punches and vice versa. Bluenote was dealing with Gildarts punches better than the Laxus/Jura were. From that, I assume Gildarts > Jura/Laxus in punches, and therefore Bluenote > Laxus/Jura for durability. I don't think Bluenote got stronger (he was kinda used as a measuring stick for Natsu), but there's not really anything to suggest Jura's durability improved either. I give him the benefit of the doubt that his durability is slightly above Bluenote's, just to be fair. If I do that, it's still in the realm of possibility that a roar from Natsu can oneshot Jura, and by extension to a decent job at defeating the GoI.
Pardon me when did i say Natsu will One Shot laxus.I have constantly said laxus is stronger than Base or FDKM Natsu.But DF Natsu is stronger than laxus.
Jura endured the wrath of Serena in pretty much the same way as the GoI. In terms of magic he might be well below Warrod. But in durability - which is how you sustain damage - they were portrayed as peers.
Bluenote's durability I rate as better better than GMG Jura's. Jura was getting beat up by Laxus punches and vice versa. Bluenote was dealing with Gildarts punches better than the Laxus/Jura were. From that, I assume Gildarts > Jura/Laxus in punches, and therefore Bluenote > Laxus/Jura for durability. I don't think Bluenote got stronger (he was kinda used as a measuring stick for Natsu), but there's not really anything to suggest Jura's durability improved either. I give him the benefit of the doubt that his durability is slightly above Bluenote's, just to be fair. If I do that, it's still in the realm of possibility that a roar from Natsu can oneshot Jura, and by extension to a decent job at defeating the GoI.
Think about it, Laxus gains the power of mages that were leagues above him in only a year?! That power scale jump makes little to no sense whatsoever. He might be close to them though. We do not know all that the GOI can actually accomplish and remember G. Serena took them out at first without his dragon arts.
You are right there, how about yardstick to Acnologia's strength when in human form whilst being a testament to the vast difference in all-around battle skills when compared to the Spriggan 12.
The power scale hasn't made sense since Natsu oneshotted Bluenote. And by that I mean for us it makes no sense, because we thought 3 months of improvement was relatively small like before the GMG. But Hiro writes this stuff, and he's gone out of his way to power up people and make enemies that can take out Wizard Saints rather easily. In this respect I can understand what you're saying - that Laxus should not be able to surpass someone like Hyberion in a year - I wouldn't have thought it likely. But after Laxus came back, was portrayed to be better than Ajeel, and then defeated Wahl in spite of a handicap, I kinda feel it's pointless to refute Laxus < Wizard Saints. Tbh I expected more from the GoI, I expected them to be able to hold their own against Spriggans given God Serena was good enough to join. But it seems the GoI << Spriggans, as Serena was able to defeat the GoI+Jura.
This is a character statement, and tbh I believe it refers to Jura's magic power or ability. It's different when we're talking durability or physical strength, which is something I believe Gildarts and Bluenote are above GMG Jura in.
Imo Gildarts has Jura covered. Particularly with his magic type he'd have no problem with earth magic, so it would be a CQC battle just like Bluenote v Gildarts, and then Gildarts would win.
The power scale hasn't made sense since Natsu oneshotted Bluenote. And by that I mean for us it makes no sense, because we thought 3 months of improvement was relatively small like before the GMG. But Hiro writes this stuff, and he's gone out of his way to power up people and make enemies that can take out Wizard Saints rather easily. In this respect I can understand what you're saying - that Laxus should not be able to surpass someone like Hyberion in a year - I wouldn't have thought it likely. But after Laxus came back, was portrayed to be better than Ajeel, and then defeated Wahl in spite of a handicap, I kinda feel it's pointless to refute Laxus < Wizard Saints. Tbh I expected more from the GoI, I expected them to be able to hold their own against Spriggans given God Serena was good enough to join. But it seems the GoI << Spriggans, as Serena was able to defeat the GoI+Jura.
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This is a character statement, and tbh I believe it refers to Jura's magic power or ability. It's different when we're talking durability or physical strength, which is something I believe Gildarts and Bluenote are above GMG Jura in.
Imo Gildarts has Jura covered. Particularly with his magic type he'd have no problem with earth magic, so it would be a CQC battle just like Bluenote v Gildarts, and then Gildarts would win.
The power scale hasn't made sense since Natsu oneshotted Bluenote. And by that I mean for us it makes no sense, because we thought 3 months of improvement was relatively small like before the GMG. But Hiro writes this stuff, and he's gone out of his way to power up people and make enemies that can take out Wizard Saints rather easily. In this respect I can understand what you're saying - that Laxus should not be able to surpass someone like Hyberion in a year - I wouldn't have thought it likely. But after Laxus came back, was portrayed to be better than Ajeel, and then defeated Wahl in spite of a handicap, I kinda feel it's pointless to refute Laxus < Wizard Saints. Tbh I expected more from the GoI, I expected them to be able to hold their own against Spriggans given God Serena was good enough to join. But it seems the GoI << Spriggans, as Serena was able to defeat the GoI+Jura.
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This is a character statement, and tbh I believe it refers to Jura's magic power or ability. It's different when we're talking durability or physical strength, which is something I believe Gildarts and Bluenote are above GMG Jura in.
Imo Gildarts has Jura covered. Particularly with his magic type he'd have no problem with earth magic, so it would be a CQC battle just like Bluenote v Gildarts, and then Gildarts would win.
Do you not mean Laxus + dumb luck is greater than wahl. The only thing keeping him alive in that fight was,well, Wahl. If you think about it the spriggans are stronger than ALL FT's mages with the exception of Natsu(plot purposes) as ALL FT's mages have won with the aforementioned dumb luck. The GOI might be stronger than Laxus as they have not fought.
Do you not mean Laxus + dumb luck is greater than wahl. The only thing keeping him alive in that fight was,well, Wahl. If you think about it the spriggans are stronger than ALL FT's mages with the exception of Natsu(plot purposes) as ALL FT's mages have won with the aforementioned dumb luck. The GOI might be stronger than Laxus as they have not fought.
Do you not mean Laxus + dumb luck is greater than wahl. The only thing keeping him alive in that fight was,well, Wahl. If you think about it the spriggans are stronger than ALL FT's mages with the exception of Natsu(plot purposes) as ALL FT's mages have won with the aforementioned dumb luck. The GOI might be stronger than Laxus as they have not fought.
Not really. Laxus won legitimately. The only reason Laxus ever looked like dying was a sickness Mashima decided to introduce in ch 471. And Laxus knew about it of course, and that Wahl could expel MBP's, so he used that to cure himself from an illness Wahl did not inflict. To win he used his own power.
The GoI being stronger than Laxus would be another power scale breaker as far as I am concerned.
Laxus won his fight because 'he is Laxus', not because he is stronger.
It's just the same as Erza winning with PoF. Some see it as a fair win and some do not. In my case, I don't.
Wahl was clearly overpowering Laxus throughout the whole fight. Laxus was quite chanceless. If this fight would've been fair, Laxus should've been defeated when Wahl spammed his attacks at him. It just isn't realistic that Laxus survived thousands of missles and lazers. Well, he did. Because he is Laxus.
I wouldn't say Laxus is stronger than the Gods of Ishgar since they never fought. I don't think there is any logic in comparing Laxus vs. Wahl and GOI vs. God Serena. In the end, all of them were owned by their opponent. Laxus just had luck he got a power-up, like every Fairy Tail mage get when they fight a stronger opponent.
Are we just going to ignore that Wahl had a specific immunity to lightning? Laxus was nerfed hard through the Magic Barrier Particles and lightning resistance when fighting Wahl to show he is a fair amount above your average Spriggan.
Are we just going to ignore that Wahl had a specific immunity to lightning? Laxus was nerfed hard through the Magic Barrier Particles and lightning resistance when fighting Wahl to show he is a fair amount above your average Spriggan.
Nothing implies that it was, all we know about it is that it is lightning that doesn't have the properties of lightning, thus Wahl didn't have an immunity to it. It was made clear by Freed back when Wahl attacked them that he is 'the worst possible opponent for Laxus'. That statement was made to show that Laxus would have a severe disadvantage against Wahl if they were to fight, then the MB Particles handicapped him even further.
I do see both sides of the argument with the effectiveness of red lightning on Wahl, but I tend to follow what @Solitrine stated. Particularly in the aftermath where Laxus is exhausted (and injured too), it's probably a very powerful spell. It's probably close to FDK spells tbh if it uses a lot of Laxus' power.
Nothing implies that it was, all we know about it is that it is lightning that doesn't have the properties of lightning, thus Wahl didn't have an immunity to it. It was made clear by Freed back when Wahl attacked them that he is 'the worst possible opponent for Laxus'. That statement was made to show that Laxus would have a severe disadvantage against Wahl if they were to fight, then the MB Particles handicapped him even further.
Most likely Wahl was only able to tank Laxus's attacks because he was immune to lightning. Since Red Lightning is actually Mercury Fulminate, which chemically speaking has explosive properties, he couldn't tank it (and let's be honest, Laxus's attacks are VERY concentrated in ethernano thus severely harmful) and was destroyed. But I'd still place Laxus as low Spriggan tier and Jellal most likely on the same level or a little below.
I do see both sides of the argument with the effectiveness of red lightning on Wahl, but I tend to follow what @Solitrine stated. Particularly in the aftermath where Laxus is exhausted (and injured too), it's probably a very powerful spell. It's probably close to FDK spells tbh if it uses a lot of Laxus' power.
Well, we can't know that for sure. The amount of magical energy required to cast a spell probably doesn't equal the power it possesses. Natsu's FDK demolition fist which was used against Jacob was a very powerful spell but it didn't tire him in the least. Then again, I am not sure.
If an extremely injured Laxus can one shot a Spriggan (Wahl) it puts him above an average Spriggan to me. Even assuming that Red Lightning is his most powerful attack, he still effectively one shot a Spriggan.
If an extremely injured Laxus can one shot a Spriggan (Wahl) it puts him above an average Spriggan to me. Even assuming that Red Lightning is his most powerful attack, he still effectively one shot a Spriggan.
