Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

Which side are you on?

  • Team Spriggan 12

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Hermit

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I really don't know how else anyone can explain Gray beating Invel without using a form of emotional power. It's either PoF, or darkness/negative emotions. Invel spent a couple of panels in ch 498 hyping that latter emotional power. You only need to look at the recent chapter to see what Gray's emotional state is like. The Invel fight also made it clear that Gray wasn't in Natsu's class, and he got a power-up to bridge the gap between the 2.
Isn't this a little unfair? I mean, you defend Natsu vs Neinhart by saying it was FDKM when it was clearly not then call Gray vs Invel a POF based fight
 

Woodenstool

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Isn't this a little unfair? I mean, you defend Natsu vs Neinhart by saying it was FDKM when it was clearly not then call Gray vs Invel a POF based fight
You're talking to the guy who said dragon slayers can't eat their element. Aka God Serena.

Natsu sees Brandish as a friend and saw her getting hurt by Neinhart. Clearly friendship power up but that doesn't apply to Natsu only other characters in @Brandish
 

Static

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Isn't this a little unfair? I mean, you defend Natsu vs Neinhart by saying it was FDKM when it was clearly not then call Gray vs Invel a POF based fight
That could be true, Natsu could've used PoF in his fight against Neinhart (more like one-sided annihilation...) too.

Oh well, you and @MLG Bradman got me convinced...guess I'm gonna go ahead and place them a similar level.

I still stand by my view that END will eventually crush Gray though :3.
 
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Nemispelled

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Here's the way, I see it:

If Gray didn't have DeS magic, then he would be utterly crushed and stomped on by END.

In other words, END >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gray without IDeSM

I've always acknowledged Fully-Transformed END to be a formidable opponent with powers beyond comparison. I'll even call END, Natsu if that's what some fans want to hear...

But the fact that Gray was given IDeSM in Tartaros Arc pretty much explains his purpose. He is the only known Devil Slayer in existence after Silver died.

It wouldn't make sense that END would stomp and completely destroy the only Devil Slayer alive, that's counter-intuitive.


The entire reason why I put Gray on par with END (as of the latest chapter) is because Gray is at a major advantage here.

With his IDeSM, Gray should be = Current END

Long story short, I don't put Gray on END's level because I think that END is weak.

I put Gray on END's level because his slaying advantage + Gray's raw power, skill, intelligence.... should put them on equal footing.
 

Woodenstool

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Here's the way, I see it:

If Gray didn't have DeS magic, then he would be utterly crushed and stomped on by END.

In other words, END >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gray without IDeSM

I've always acknowledged Fully-Transformed END to be a formidable opponent with powers beyond comparison. I'll even call END, Natsu if that's what some fans want to hear...

But the fact that Gray was given IDeSM in Tartaros Arc pretty much explains his purpose. He is the only known Devil Slayer in existence after Silver died.

It wouldn't make sense that END would stomp and completely destroy the only Devil Slayer alive, that's counter-intuitive.


The entire reason why I put Gray on par with END (as of the latest chapter) is because Gray is at a major advantage here.

With his IDeSM, Gray should be = Current END

Long story short, I don't put Gray on END's level because I think that END is weak.

I put Gray on END's level because his slaying advantage + Gray's raw power, skill, intelligence.... should put them on equal footing.
Gray wouldn't be stomped by END, you have no proof. He was divine ice which can literally freeze anything it touches.

Grays devil slaying mode doesn't make him stronger, it just gives him a upgrade to his ice abilities. Don't ignore cannon facts of the latest chapter.
 

Nemispelled

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Gray wouldn't be stomped by END, you have no proof. He was divine ice which can literally freeze anything it touches.

Grays devil slaying mode doesn't make him stronger, it just gives him a upgrade to his ice abilities. Don't ignore cannon facts of the latest chapter.

Gray doesn't have divine ice.

Gray's devil slaying mode doesn't upgrade his strength or abilities. It just gives him specific spells that are Anti-Demon.

As of the latest chapter, I agree Gray is on par with END because of his IDeSM...
 

Woodenstool

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Gray doesn't have divine ice.

Gray's devil slaying mode doesn't upgrade his strength or abilities. It just gives him specific spells that are Anti-Demon.

As of the latest chapter, I agree Gray is on par with END because of his IDeSM...
Read the chapter where Invel got beaten. Gray molded divine ice.
 

Woodenstool

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Do you know what molding means? Molding divine ice doesn't mean that Gray acquires it, otherwise Gray should have gotten DeS Ice when he unfroze Sun Village -_-
So Grays ice just magically became on the same level as Invels armor because of nothing?

That's the power up.
 

Boomburst

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So Grays ice just magically became on the same level as Invels armor because of nothing?

That's the power up.
He channeled Invel's divine ice to break the armor, sure. How does this mean he now has Invel's ice as a permanent ability? Again, Gray did the exact same thing to the DeS Ice in Sun Village, but he didn't get DeS Ice from that did he?
 

Boomburst

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I don't see how breaking Invels armor makes him able to craft divine ice.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

What's atomics skype?
What? That's not what I said at all. I said that Gray molded Invel's ice IN ORDER TO break Invel's armor.
 

Boomburst

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You said he channeled his armor.
Well basically what happened was Gray channeled the ice that Invel's armor was made of, and that caused the armor to break. Nothing suggests that he gained the ability to use divine ice himself. He simply molded the ice in Invel's armor and broke it.
 

Woodenstool

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Well basically what happened was Gray channeled the ice that Invel's armor was made of, and that caused the armor to break. Nothing suggests that he gained the ability to use divine ice himself. He simply molded the ice in Invel's armor and broke it.
He was kinda Butthurt over someone dying. After he broke the armor, he molded the ice. Nothing's tells me used Invels energy to make that ice.
 

Char

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I agree, I think Gray is on END's league because of the slaying advantage.

In any case, I don't believe that's fully awakened END or anything; because he didn't stroke me as powerful as Igneel-powered Natsu, and END should necessarily be in order to defeat Zeref. Maybe END can eventually mix his demonic powers with the leftovers of Igneel's to defeat Zeref... or maybe this will be against Acnologia... who knows.
 

Woodenstool

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I agree, I think Gray is on END's league because of the slaying advantage.

In any case, I don't believe that's fully awakened END or anything; because he didn't stroke me as powerful as Igneel-powered Natsu, and END should necessarily be in order to defeat Zeref. Maybe END can eventually mix his demonic powers with the leftovers of Igneel's to defeat Zeref... or maybe this will be against Acnologia... who knows.
Igneels power is long gone at this point. And I don't see how Natsu with this power up is going to affect Zeref. Even with Igneels powers, he barley made a wound on Zeref. With ENDs powers, it's not even close to Igneels strength.

Remember, Zeref said he tried beheading himself and didn't die. If Natsu couldn't decapitate Zeref in his prime state means love is the way to take Zeref out. Because him and Natsu are linked.
 

Char

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Igneels power is long gone at this point. And I don't see how Natsu with this power up is going to affect Zeref. Even with Igneels powers, he barley made a wound on Zeref. With ENDs powers, it's not even close to Igneels strength.

Remember, Zeref said he tried beheading himself and didn't die. If Natsu couldn't decapitate Zeref in his prime state means love is the way to take Zeref out. Because him and Natsu are linked.
Natsu claimed he still had enough leftovers of Igneel's power to land one more blow; which he finally didn't use.

END was a demon specifically created by Zeref in order to kill him; if you add any powerup to the equation...

We know for a fact Zeref is immortal and immune to any kind of damage, including beheading. He can regenerate from anything. So killing/hurtin him for that matter is gonna take something else rather than just "strength". But END has something else than jsut that. He actually was capable of countering age seal.

So you have a point, "love" or whatever other crazy thing Mashima makes up in order to kill Zeref.
 

Woodenstool

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Natsu claimed he still had enough leftovers of Igneel's power to land one more blow; which he finally didn't use.

END was a demon specifically created by Zeref in order to kill him; if you add any powerup to the equation...

We know for a fact Zeref is immortal and immune to any kind of damage, including beheading. He can regenerate from anything. So killing/hurtin him for that matter is gonna take something else rather than just "strength". But END has something else than jsut that. He actually was capable of countering age seal.

So you have a point, "love" or whatever other crazy thing Mashima makes up in order to kill Zeref.
If he does have it then we might see bullshit again. Fairy heart regenerates Ugneels power.
 

Laxus chan-yo

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^Bro whats your opinion of Gildarts looking like a rented mule last chapter?
 

Brandish μ

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Isn't this a little unfair? I mean, you defend Natsu vs Neinhart by saying it was FDKM when it was clearly not then call Gray vs Invel a POF based fight
Natsu could've used PoF, it's possible because it's Natsu/FT. He wasn't FDKM but he could've used a FDK spell... but I assume he did it with a base tech for now.

But Gray won with emotional power. He was essentially rolling with full power in chapter 498... he had black marks and used DeS magic. After that he has the trump card... and we don't know what that is. But after Juvia died he was beating up Invel with fists in base. That marked improvement can only come from MP imo, and the only source of MP Gray had was emotional power. The fact that Invel went on to hype Gray's potential to use the darkness in his heart as power is enough evidence to support my view of how Gray won.

Lastly I don't think it's necessary to defend anyone from using emotional power. PoF is a power in FT. Sure it's plot convenient but it is a part of the FT verse. Laxus used PoF to beat Wall. Natsu may or may not have used it against Neinhart... I'm not defending him if I say he didn't use PoF. Similarly, I'm not insulting Gray by saying he won with emotional power. It's quite obvious to me he did win by it, plus there was a brief explanation that darkness existed as an emotional power source and Gray's DeS magic had darkened his heart. Gray can probably tap into this power at any time he's conflicted emotionally, which is why I count him as stronger now compared to his re-appearance after the timeskip.
 

XXEliteXXAceXX

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I really don't know how else anyone can explain Gray beating Invel without using a form of emotional power. It's either PoF, or darkness/negative emotions. Invel spent a couple of panels in ch 498 hyping that latter emotional power. You only need to look at the recent chapter to see what Gray's emotional state is like. The Invel fight also made it clear that Gray wasn't in Natsu's class, and he got a power-up to bridge the gap between the 2.
Emotional power? Invel never hyped anything of that sort...

What Invel said to Gray was that he was slowly being consumed by darkness. This was the result of using Devil Slaying Magic which was said to eat away at the soul of Demon Slayers. To be honest, this really isn't much different from Dragon Slayers having the ability to dragonize by using Dragon Slaying Magic.

As for Gray's anger, that is not "Power of Friendship". It was the darkness within him that was slowly erupting. Juvia's "death" may have sped it up but it certainly wasn't PoF which is a random power-up given by the thought of your comrades. Anger is the equivalent of a character's highest potential. In other words, it is fair to say that Gray was going all out in that fight.



I'm not referring to the attack that took Invel out though, I'm referring to the all the base punches with no magic whatsoever that Invel got decimated by and yet he was able to tank Gray's Zeroth Longsword no problem. I think we can both agree that Zeroth Longsword is stronger than Gray's base punches without magic.
Invel didn't get decimated by Gray's punches... He was still in decent condition after being punched 3 times.


Besides a few bruises, he was relatively unharmed. Meanwhile, Gray's Ice Devil's Zeroth: Longsword actually inflicted major damage on Invel to the point he was bleeding.


I honestly don't get your point here. All this shows is that Gray has good physicals, Invel has good endurance/stamina, and DeS Spells > Base Punches.

Again, you fail to realize that had FDKM been nessecary, it would not have taken only one attack to take Jacob out. Sure Natsu could have taken Jacob out in base with more attacks. But why would he? Wouldn't the most logical thing to do be to try and beat Jacob as quickly as possible? Why would Natsu restrict himself to base for no reason?

The wording was bad on my part, I meant Natsu being frustrated more than angry. Knowing Natsu's character, after being held back for so long against an opponent, I think it's another fair explanation as to why Natsu decided to go all out once he got the opportunity.
That one attack you're talking about didn't even kill Jacob. He came out with minor injuries. So Natsu indeed felt that FDKM was necessary and he was right in that. Besides, if Natsu was truly as strong as you claim, why couldn't he beat Jacob as quickly as possible in Base Form? Is it because he's not strong enough?

Now that is a twist of words just so that you can make your point. It should be clear Natsu was angry at the fact that Jacob was hurting his friends especially since Hiro Mashima emphasizes it in the font of the writing.

Well both these examples aren't equivalent to the END flames around Natsu though. These flames were created from the sudden release of magical power that was triggered when Igneel's power or FDKM was activated. But Natsu had already gone END back where Lucy and Dimaria were and he still retained the flames around him a fair bit later when he encountered Gray. I don't see why the flames, after staying with Natsu for that long, would just disappear for no reason. If this was the same thing as when Natsu activated Igneel's power and FDKM then his END flames would have gone out a long time ago.
They are equivalent. E.N.D's flames are a result of his magic power increasing which is very much the same as Igneel's power and FDKM.

I don't know what you mean by the flames didn't stay with Natsu for that long... It was no longer than a minute or two before it disappeared.

Well I mean, we've already seen firsthand that Jacob does excel in CQC, so his physicality has already proven to be impressive and therefore I think it's reasonable to suggest that his durability would be decent as well. His durability would certainly be higher than Neinhart's, a mage who doesn't even engage in direct combat at all and uses his magic to fight for him.

An increase in MP doesn't nessecarily correlate to an increase in physical stats. I don't know if this is still applicable anymore (I hope it is) but at the very start of the series when Natsu was fighting the two mercenaries in the mansion, they said that many mages spend their efforts improving their magical abilities and as such they neglect their physical strength. I think this is fairly strong evidence that physicality isn't dependent on magical power.
Not everyone who is good at CQC has good physicals. Just take the Garou Knights or Oración Seis for example. Characters like Kama or Racer can fight decently in hand-to-hand combat but the moment they are hit, they're defeated.

I'm not saying Enhanced Neinhart has more durability. I'm saying he would last longer in a fight. Magic power actually plays a more of an important role than people think. The more MP a wizard has, the stronger they can make their attacks just by channeling more magic energy into them. Similarly, the more MP they have, the longer they can last in fight simply by having an increase in endurance/stamina.
 
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