To be fair to Jellal against the OS, he was trying to convince them without using excessive force at first and gathered up a few injuries just trying to tank/dodge their attacks as a result. He would have finished things a lot sooner if he had just went all out from the start. And Gray made a definitive statement when he compared Brandish and Makarov, he says that she has more MP then him (not might). I agree that Makarov has more MP then Lucy though. If Makarov has anything its MP, he converts it into his own size and strength for titan form.
Wear appears on characters all the time when fighting for excessive amounts of time (Gildarts has plenty, yet the fodders likely never touched him, let alone injured him), its different from a bruise. Also, I see no reason to believe that Regulus kick is as strong as Aqua Metria, the latter has huge AoE and does noticeable damage while the former hasn't done much of anything really. Loke is probably physically equal to or superior then DF Wendy, but Wendy's magic is far greater.
Also, Fire Dragons Iron Fist is more powerful then Fire dragon claw. The fact that the former even has an evolution/upgrade in FDKDF is proof of that.
To be fair to Jellal against the OS, he was trying to convince them without using excessive force at first and gathered up a few injuries just trying to tank/dodge their attacks as a result. He would have finished things a lot sooner if he had just went all out from the start. And Gray made a definitive statement when he compared Brandish and Makarov, he says that she has more MP then him (not might). I agree that Makarov has more MP then Lucy though. If Makarov has anything its MP, he converts it into his own size and strength for titan form.
Wear appears on characters all the time when fighting for excessive amounts of time (Gildarts has plenty, yet the fodders likely never touched him, let alone injured him), its different from a bruise. Also, I see no reason to believe that Regulus kick is as strong as Aqua Metria, the latter has huge AoE and does noticeable damage while the former hasn't done much of anything really. Loke is probably physically equal to or superior then DF Wendy, but Wendy's magic is far greater.
Also, Fire Dragons Iron Fist is more powerful then Fire dragon claw. The fact that the former even has an evolution/upgrade in FDKDF is proof of that.
I think Sema meets the requirement for "excessive force", imo if you use a powerful spell in a serious fight it is because you need to use it. As for not going all out from the start, yeah, he was holding back at the start, as many fighters do.
Well im not saying Makarov's mp is equal to Brandish's, however the fact that Makarov was the wizard Gray was surprised she surpassed confirms that he himself hasnt reached that level yet.
I dont think Demolition Fist is a reason to think better of Iron Fist but meh, Claw could be weaker, whos to say it isnt.
Tanking FD Claw and Regulus Lucy kick at the same time however imo is impressive, combined attacks are usually a lot more powerful than getting hit by both attacks at different times
I think Sema meets the requirement for "excessive force", imo if you use a powerful spell in a serious fight it is because you need to use it. As for not going all out from the start, yeah, he was holding back at the start, as many fighters do.
He was already pretty injured by that point (as injured as he was in the panel you showed). He wasn't acting like most fighters, he wasn't counter attacking at all aside from throwing/punching them around.
Well im not saying Makarov's mp is equal to Brandish's, however the fact that Makarov was the wizard Gray was surprised she surpassed confirms that he himself hasnt reached that level yet.
Eh, that logic is kinda shaky to me but carry on, not my argument.
I dont think Demolition Fist is a reason to think better of Iron Fist but meh, Claw could be weaker, whos to say it isnt.
Tanking Claw and Regulus Lucy kick at the same time however imo is impressive, combined attacks are usually more a lot more powerful than getting hit by both attacks at different times
I'm basing based on AoE and performance (as well as the demolition fist). Iron Fist beats out Claw in both. It really comes down to Natsu being able to punch harder then he could kick (which makes sense).
Tanking isn't the right word, his face was "caved in" for the remainder of the fight from that attack, it was far beyond a mere bruise (like what Loke did). And no thats not really true when it comes to physical attacks since the two attacks are hitting two different areas of his face (their legs can't just merge to hit the same spot). On the other hand, if a physical attack were to hit his face, and then a follow-up physical attack hits the same spot it would hurt more since the area was damaged beforehand. Either way in this case its the former.
He was already pretty injured by that point (as injured as he was in the panel you showed). He wasn't acting like most fighters, he wasn't counter attacking at all aside from throwing/punching them around.
Eh, that logic is kinda shaky to me but carry on, not my argument.
I'm basing based on AoE and performance (as well as the demolition fist). Iron Fist beats out Claw in both. It really comes down to Natsu being able to punch harder then he could kick (which makes sense).
Tanking isn't the right word, his face was "caved in" for the remainder of the fight from that attack, it was far beyond a mere bruise (like what Loke did). And no thats not really true when it comes to physical attacks since the two attacks are hitting two different areas of his face (their legs can't just merge to hit the same spot). On the other hand, if a physical attack were to hit his face, and then a follow-up physical attack hits the same spot it would hurt more since the area was damaged beforehand. Either way in this case its the former.
That is true, however until Jellal started fighting seriously(pulling out Meteor) Midnight was not fighting at all, and since he is their strongest fighter you cant really say that the OS were fighting at max power either. It is also worth noting that when Jellal was punching/throwing the OS around they were still out of shape from their long stay in prison, took em a while to get warmed up, or at least that is what Angel implied.
Alright, Claw<Iron Fist.
Caved in? He just got a bloody nose, it pissed him off sure but i attribute that more to them screwing with him with Lucy's nudity than the actual damage, Natsu appeared considerably more banged up even after Jacob ate the FD Claw and Lucy kick.
Logically you are right about the two attacks, however looking at the actual panel with Lucy and Natsu attacking in unison i have to disagree, combined attacks are portrayed as both stronger and more meaningful, certainly did more damage than any of Natsu's or Lucy's previous attacks
Iron Fist would be stronger Claw, Talons etc. I think if Natsu wanted to he could make a claw ~ Fist, but because he spams 'fist' and it's likely his signature, it has much better feats. So an FD Fist > Claw for now.
The AoE of his flames is a good indicator of the power for those techs too. Not saying it is everything but it is a good indicator.
So what about END? Right now the hype has fallen well short of a lot of people's expectations. My max hype was Zeref-level, and he's not there yet either.
Tbh I'm more impressed with FDKM (not IgNatsu - that wrecks END currently) than his current demon power. The roar he did in 506 didn't really wow me either. He's definitely hitting hard with his punches though. His blackish flames should be more intense than base, but Idk about FDKM.
Gray's pretty much keeping up with END so I say he's about the same. Gray might lack raw power, but his overall ability is keeping him in the game. So I put them both about the same, until both show something otherwise.
I didn't really get why Gray wasn't wrecking END either, but I can put that down to the degree of transformation. I mean he was very much inferior to EF Mard, and with one tech he won.
Iron Fist would be stronger Claw, Talons etc. I think if Natsu wanted to he could make a claw ~ Fist, but because he spams 'fist' and it's likely his signature, it has much better feats. So an FD Fist > Claw for now.
The AoE of his flames is a good indicator of the power for those techs too. Not saying it is everything but it is a good indicator.
So what about END? Right now the hype has fallen well short of a lot of people's expectations. My max hype was Zeref-level, and he's not there yet either.
Tbh I'm more impressed with FDKM (not IgNatsu - that wrecks END currently) than his current demon power. The roar he did in 506 didn't really wow me either. He's definitely hitting hard with his punches though. His blackish flames should be more intense than base, but Idk about FDKM.
Gray's pretty much keeping up with END so I say he's about the same. Gray might lack raw power, but his overall ability is keeping him in the game. So I put them both about the same, until both show something otherwise.
I didn't really get why Gray wasn't wrecking END either, but I can put that down to the degree of transformation. I mean he was very much inferior to EF Mard, and with one tech he won.
END seemed to scare Dimaria pretty bad, but judging by her clothes it didnt seem like she got the chance to go into God Soul, so... yeah, FDK Natsu craps all over END imo, just look at that pathetic roar compared to FDK roar.
END is probably somewhere in-between Base Natsu and FDK Natsu.
Gray's DeS is probably working to the degree that Natsu has transformed, so maybe 10% more effective than normal? Though it does look like Gray's DeS tattoo is spreading so it is probably helping him tank Natsu's attacks.
How would you guys rank these people in strength?
It's the lieutenants of the Spriggan 12, well at least the ones we know by name:
1.Marin
2.Bakyll
3.Juliet
4.Hynhe
5.Kareem.
6.Neinhart's lieutenants.
That is true, however until Jellal started fighting seriously(pulling out Meteor) Midnight was not fighting at all, and since he is their strongest fighter you cant really say that the OS were fighting at max power either. It is also worth noting that when Jellal was punching/throwing the OS around they were still out of shape from their long stay in prison, took em a while to get warmed up, or at least that is what Angel implied.
We don't know if he was tbh, at best he wasn't using his illusions (he could have still been using refractory). Also, when Jellal uses meteor I wouldn't exactly say that that was Jellal going all-out. Its safe to say that Jellal never went all out in that fight, since he did not want to kill OS but recruit them. Idk about the out of shape thing.
Caved in? He just got a bloody nose, it pissed him off sure but i attribute that more to them screwing with him with Lucy's nudity than the actual damage, Natsu appeared considerably more banged up even after Jacob ate the FD Claw and Lucy kick.
Logically you are right about the two attacks, however looking at the actual panel with Lucy and Natsu attacking in unison i have to disagree, combined attacks are portrayed as both stronger and more meaningful, certainly did more damage than any of Natsu's or Lucy's previous attacks
Yeah nvm, it looked caved in in the panel that he uses transport. Still, he was bleeding so he definitely did not tank the attack. Natsu took a barrage of Jacobs attacks whereas Jacob only took the dual attack and a punch from Loke.
So what about END? Right now the hype has fallen well short of a lot of people's expectations. My max hype was Zeref-level, and he's not there yet either.
Tbh I'm more impressed with FDKM (not IgNatsu - that wrecks END currently) than his current demon power. The roar he did in 506 didn't really wow me either. He's definitely hitting hard with his punches though. His blackish flames should be more intense than base, but Idk about FDKM.
Gray's pretty much keeping up with END so I say he's about the same. Gray might lack raw power, but his overall ability is keeping him in the game. So I put them both about the same, until both show something otherwise.
I didn't really get why Gray wasn't wrecking END either, but I can put that down to the degree of transformation. I mean he was very much inferior to EF Mard, and with one tech he won.
Hard to say. His roar was pitifully small in comparison to even his base roar on Bluenote but it is likely just because it is condensed (I have a hard time believing that Natsu/END would have a weaker roar then his base self). As END is currently I think he is above base Natsu, maybe superior to FDKM. Definitely inferior to IgNatsu. However as it stands the only part that seems to be fully demonized is his hand, I expect his power to increase in proportion to the part that is demonized.
END seemed to scare Dimaria pretty bad, but judging by her clothes it didnt seem like she got the chance to go into God Soul, so... yeah, FDK Natsu craps all over END imo, just look at that pathetic roar compared to FDK roar.
She implied that she did when she said he surpassed the power of a god (aka God Soul). Her clothes and skin tear if damage is done to Chronos, as evidenced by her body after getting taken down by Chelia. God Soul is pretty weak anyways in comparison to the spriggan power that we have seen, if you are strong enough to resist Age Seal you are pretty much guaranteed to defeat DiMaria, unless you are someone like Ultear.
How would you guys rank these people in strength?
It's the lieutenants of the Spriggan 12, well at least the ones we know by name:
1.Marin
2.Bakyll
3.Juliet
4.Hynhe
5.Kareem.
6.Neinhart's lieutenants.
So what about END? Right now the hype has fallen well short of a lot of people's expectations. My max hype was Zeref-level, and he's not there yet either.
Tbh I'm more impressed with FDKM (not IgNatsu - that wrecks END currently) than his current demon power. The roar he did in 506 didn't really wow me either. He's definitely hitting hard with his punches though. His blackish flames should be more intense than base, but Idk about FDKM.
Gray's pretty much keeping up with END so I say he's about the same. Gray might lack raw power, but his overall ability is keeping him in the game. So I put them both about the same, until both show something otherwise.
I didn't really get why Gray wasn't wrecking END either, but I can put that down to the degree of transformation. I mean he was very much inferior to EF Mard, and with one tech he won.
Well i think we should look through another point of view.We know Slaying advantages allow to close a huge gap in power.As Randy you yourself said that even though Gray was weaker than Mard yet he destroyed him.But if the Slaying entity becomes too strong for the Slayer then the Slayer will not have much effect to the point in GMG where Dragons had an fairly easy time against the Dragon Slayers.We see that Natsu even though being hit by Des Magic it has no effect on him.So you can imagine the gap between Natsu and Gray.And another thing if you notice Hiro didn't let Natsu's attacks till now to hit Gray but allowed Gray to hit him with Des.
We don't know if he was tbh, at best he wasn't using his illusions (he could have still been using refractory). Also, when Jellal uses meteor I wouldn't exactly say that that was Jellal going all-out. Its safe to say that Jellal never went all out in that fight, since he did not want to kill OS but recruit them. Idk about the out of shape thing.
Yeah nvm, it looked caved in in the panel that he uses transport. Still, he was bleeding so he definitely did not tank the attack. Natsu took a barrage of Jacobs attacks whereas Jacob only took the dual attack and a punch from Loke.
Hard to say. His roar was pitifully small in comparison to even his base roar on Bluenote but it is likely just because it is condensed (I have a hard time believing that Natsu/END would have a weaker roar then his base self). As END is currently I think he is above base Natsu, maybe superior to FDKM. Definitely inferior to IgNatsu. However as it stands the only part that seems to be fully demonized is his hand, I expect his power to increase in proportion to the part that is demonized.
She implied that she did when she said he surpassed the power of a god (aka God Soul). Her clothes and skin tear if damage is done to Chronos, as evidenced by her body after getting taken down by Chelia. God Soul is pretty weak anyways in comparison to the spriggan power that we have seen, if you are strong enough to resist Age Seal you are pretty much guaranteed to defeat DiMaria, unless you are someone like Ultear.
Using refractor? You trying to say thats why Jellal wasnt using magic? Well its possible i guess, but unless there is a panel showing Midnight doing something before the illusions i stand by what i said before about Midnight not getting involved.
I meant he started going all out, Midnight interfered before Jellal could really get down to business.
The whole "not killing=holding back" logic is shaky at best, it certainly wasnt portrayed to factor into the battle at all, imo the effort Jellal put into the battle, the damage he received and the caliber of spells he used(Sema) all point to him having had unleashed his power to the absolute limit.
Jacob also ate a rocket punch to the gut at the start of the fight, but i see your point.
As for him "tanking" the combined attack, i think it just comes down to you and me having different definitions of tanking, for example in the Orecion Seis arc Erza ate a magic blast to the face from Jellal and had blood dripping from her forehead, but due to her reaction i would say she no-sold it, you might not.
How would you guys rank these people in strength?
It's the lieutenants of the Spriggan 12, well at least the ones we know by name:
1.Marin
2.Bakyll
3.Juliet
4.Hynhe
5.Kareem.
6.Neinhart's lieutenants.
1.Juliet/Hyne, just cause their Eileens creations.
2. Wahl's leader bot, you didnt mention him but he's a lieutenant too.
3. Marin, beat up Mest, and his hax seems to work on higher tiers
4. Baqel, blocked an attack from Natsu
5. Kareem, scratched up Gajeel a bit.
6. Neinhart's lieutenants, got one shot by Kagura
Marin and upwards are Demon Gate tier, Baqel and below are Seven Kin tier.
Using refractor? You trying to say thats why Jellal wasnt using magic? Well its possible i guess, but unless there is a panel showing Midnight doing something before the illusions i stand by what i said before about Midnight not getting involved.
I meant he started going all out, Midnight interfered before Jellal could really get down to business.
No, I mean in general he may have used it at some point(s) in the fight, we don't know. We know that Midnight fights stationary at a distance, its not all that improbable that while Racer and Cobra went in CQC, he and Angel provided support from a distance.
The whole "not killing=holding back" logic is shaky at best, it certainly wasnt portrayed to factor into the battle at all, imo the effort Jellal put into the battle, the damage he received and the caliber of spells he used(Sema) all point to him having had unleashed his power to the absolute limit.
Not really, its pretty much a known fact that capturing someone alive is much harder then to just straight up kill them, this applies quadruple for four people (at once). The fact that sema did not straight up kill the team is proof enough that Jellal was holding back immensely, since if Jellal had wanted to it would have certainly been capable of doing so.
2. Wahl's leader bot, you didnt mention him but he's a lieutenant too.
Actually its not, its literally just Wahls consciousness (or program) inside a far weaker body. As far as standing among Alvarez goes, its technically no different then Wahl himself because its literally Wahl.
No, I mean in general he may have used it at some point(s) in the fight, we don't know. We know that Midnight fights stationary at a distance, its not all that improbable that while Racer and Cobra went in CQC, he and Angel provided support from a distance.
Not really, its pretty much a known fact that capturing someone alive is much harder then to just straight up kill them, this applies quadruple for four people (at once). The fact that sema did not straight up kill the team is proof enough that Jellal was holding back immensely, since if Jellal had wanted to it would have certainly been capable of doing so.
Actually its not, its literally just Wahls consciousness (or program) inside a far weaker body. As far as standing among Alvarez goes, its technically no different then Wahl himself because its literally Wahl.
Its possible, but without actually seeing Midnight attack i cant agree that he was participating at that point, Angel fights stationary too. Bottom line is that despite the numerous panel's Midnight appeared in while his 3 comrades were fighting, not one of those panels showed Midnight attacking, this seems like pretty clear indication than Midnight at the time was not participating, even in the intro to the fight where each OS member attacked Jellal one after the other, showcasing their individual abilities, Midnight did not attack, and if he was going to, it would have been then, not off panel
I disagree, not about capturing someone alive being more difficult, but that Jellal was worried about killing them in the first place, he didnt enter the battle to kill, but that doesnt mean he held out on them, like with Fairy Tail and most of their opponents, they rarely enter a battle to kill, and usually they dont, but that doesnt mean they were holding back.
Sema not killing them means it couldnt kill them, nothing about its portrayal implied Jellal held back, if anything he was using more effort than he ever had up until that point.
I honesty don't see what you're trying to prove with this panel... Gray wasn't just angry. His magic power increased which is why he proceeded to beat up Invel quite easily.
As for Makarov, his MP isn't that outstanding... It took his life just to cast Fairy Law. Granted, it was a good feat but his MP level isn't that high.
Uh.... no.... wasnt shocked by Gray's MP, Invel himself explains why he was shocked, i didnt just pull that explanation out of my ass.
Clear as day, "cant believe you still breathe" he says, eyes wide while sweating, doesnt say anything like "i cant believe your MP is so high".
The fact that she couldnt sense anything from him from the start tells us that his MP isnt on that level, a power up increases the strength of the users magic by using more of it, doesnt increase the amount he had initially, as shown by wizards tiring faster while transformed, instead of slower
If Invel wasn't shocked by Gray's MP, then tell me why is there fear in his eyes? Hiro Mashima even drew an close-up on Invel's face to show that.
As for Invel being surprised that Gray survived, I never denied that. In fact, I said Invel was both shocked and afraid.
No, a power-up increases magic power. And as a result, that increases attack power + defense. Whenever a character transforms, their MP increases which is exactly why people can sense their power. It's no different from other series like DBZ.
Juliet and Heine said they would save the best for last i.e Makarov, and then went after Mirajane first
Lucy could possible outlast Makarov....maybe... doubt it, however not because she has more MP or even close to the amount Makarov has but cause shes young and fit.
Makarov still sets the bar for MP, as shown when Gray compared him to Brandish after saying "I've never felt this much MP before" and then "It might even be greater than gramps'"
What does Juliet and Hynhe have to do with this? Saving the best for last or going for somebody first says nothing about magic power.
Age doesn't mean anything in this manga. Hades had more MP than anyone on Tenrou Island except Gildarts and he is very old. Even without his heart, he was able to last a while.
No, Makarov doesn't set the bar for anything. He hasn't trained in one year and was surprised by how much everyone grew. Gray comparing Brandish to Makarov just means Brandish has more MP than Makarov. Literally nothing in that statement indicates that Makarov has more MP than Gray.
Says it clearly "you're bearing witness to Lady Eileen's formidable enchantment techniques. This unrivaled power exceeds even the limits of my own magic!"
Well, to be more accurate my "theory" is that EIleen's magic conflicts with everyone who has less magic than her, in other words Brandish hax cant affect Neinhart cause Neinhart is already under the influence of Eileen's stronger hax, if Eileen put less effort into the enchantment then maybe Brandish could do something, but that doesnt seem to be the case.
And what defines stronger hax? I don't buy your theory because that would mean someone like Brandish can't affect a Berserker (Enchanted Alvarez Soldier). And that would be absurd. It makes more sense for magic power to negate hax which is why an Enchanted Spriggan like Neinhart would be unaffected by Brandish's magic, yet a Berserker would be killed instantly.
Jellal only said he wouldnt kill them after they were already defeated, so... yeah. And it turns out Jellal isnt capable of "killing" the OS either if we go by your logic, because absolutely nothing implies he was holding back. Just look at his face after the fight, he fought, far, FAR, harder than he did against Neinhart, this is what it looks like to go all out.
Seriously trying to tell me the guy in that image didnt have an all out brawl? Come on man.
Jellal saying he wouldn't kill them at the end means that was his intent since the beginning. Also, Jellal is definitely capable of destroying the Oración Seis.
The reason why Jellal seeemed tired and injured was because he was holding back. Had Jellal gone all out on them, he would have used his strongest attack (most likely Sema) from the start.
Oh, you never said Jacob had poor durability? Ok then, so he just has as much durability as Natsu, Gajeel, Mira and Gray who also got scratched by fodder attacks, fair enough, i can agree to that.
Lucy with Loke= DF Wendy, sure, maybe not Shattering Light Skydrill level, but certainly more than regular punches and kicks, Loke is her strongest spirit. Lucy doesnt have Aquarius anymore.
Regulus Lucy kick being weak is pure speculation, in fact it is probably about as powerful as Aqua Metria considering that Aquarius and Leo were her two strongest spirits, so logically Leo Dress=Aquarius Dress.
Fire Dragon Claw isnt Natsu's most casual spell, Fire Dragon Iron Fist is, and look who that K.O'd
Jacob's durability is borderline average. He probably has less durability than Natsu, Gajeel, Mirajane, and Gray if we're including their strongest forms (like DF or DeS).
Aquarius was still stronger than Leo and even with her, Lucy was barely on par with DF Wendy. So in my book, Leo is quite inferior to DF Wendy. But he is probably a little stronger than Base Wendy.
Regulus Lucy Kick has no feats to prove that it is a strong attack so I don't believe its pure speculation. If you want to call it "part speculation", then I will agree to that for the sake of preventing an argument. Aqua Metria is stronger than that Regulus Lucy Kick because Aquarius > Leo.
To me, it doesn't matter. Fire Dragon's Claw and Fire Dragon's Iron Fist are both casual spells in this arc.
To All: Also, this past chapter is a prime example of why I said inconsistency exists in this manga. So for anyone who disagrees, that means you would have to acknowledge that Erza can tank an attack from someone of August's power because DeS Gray + E.N.D adds up to an insane amount of power especially when no magic was involved to block that attack. In other words, Erza is on the level of a Top-Tier Spriggan. Right?
Hard to say. His roar was pitifully small in comparison to even his base roar on Bluenote but it is likely just because it is condensed (I have a hard time believing that Natsu/END would have a weaker roar then his base self). As END is currently I think he is above base Natsu, maybe superior to FDKM. Definitely inferior to IgNatsu. However as it stands the only part that seems to be fully demonized is his hand, I expect his power to increase in proportion to the part that is demonized.
The roar against Bluenote probably represents a full power base one. I agree Natsu's current flames have to be more potent than base ones, but I can also see that particular roar against Bluenote eclipsing the one recently used. And I agree Ignatsu is definitely above. Maybe he will get stronger the more he demonises (sounds logical)... I expect his full power to be seen when he meets Zeref (given the instinct).
Well i think we should look through another point of view.We know Slaying advantages allow to close a huge gap in power.As Randy you yourself said that even though Gray was weaker than Mard yet he destroyed him.But if the Slaying entity becomes too strong for the Slayer then the Slayer will not have much effect to the point in GMG where Dragons had an fairly easy time against the Dragon Slayers.We see that Natsu even though being hit by Des Magic it has no effect on him.So you can imagine the gap between Natsu and Gray.And another thing if you notice Hiro didn't let Natsu's attacks till now to hit Gray but allowed Gray to hit him with Des.
Well I agree the slayer advantage is big, but how much END/Natsu's body is susceptible is hard to tell. Gray is keeping up much better now than he would have against EF Mard in Tartarus, so I think the ability gap isn't big atm.
To All: Also, this past chapter is a prime example of why I said inconsistency exists in this manga. So for anyone who disagrees, that means you would have to acknowledge that Erza can tank an attack from someone of August's power because DeS Gray + E.N.D adds up to an insane amount of power especially when no magic was involved to block that attack. In other words, Erza is on the level of a Top-Tier Spriggan. Right?
Stopping it (strength wise) might be inconsistent, but she took damage. Idk what else is meant to happen to Erza there in terms of damage. It's not like she's meant to lose her hands or something ridiculous like that - only base Acnologia could achieve that feat.
An attack from August... Idk Erza might be able to tank one. Depends how strong he hits at.
Well I agree the slayer advantage is big, but how much END/Natsu's body is susceptible is hard to tell. Gray is keeping up much better now than he would have against EF Mard in Tartarus, so I think the ability gap isn't big atm.
You laaaaaaaaaaaaaate in relying.Anyway against Human Mard Geer he completely dominated but EF Mard Geer was flying.But Natsu is taking his Des Magic without no damage.
I honesty don't see what you're trying to prove with this panel... Gray wasn't just angry. His magic power increased which is why he proceeded to beat up Invel quite easily.
As for Makarov, his MP isn't that outstanding... It took his life just to cast Fairy Law. Granted, it was a good feat but his MP level isn't that high.
If Invel wasn't shocked by Gray's MP, then tell me why is there fear in his eyes? Hiro Mashima even drew an close-up on Invel's face to show that.
As for Invel being surprised that Gray survived, I never denied that. In fact, I said Invel was both shocked and afraid.
No, a power-up increases magic power. And as a result, that increases attack power + defense. Whenever a character transforms, their MP increases which is exactly why people can sense their power. It's no different from other series like DBZ.
What does Juliet and Hynhe have to do with this? Saving the best for last or going for somebody first says nothing about magic power.
Age doesn't mean anything in this manga. Hades had more MP than anyone on Tenrou Island except Gildarts and he is very old. Even without his heart, he was able to last a while.
No, Makarov doesn't set the bar for anything. He hasn't trained in one year and was surprised by how much everyone grew. Gray comparing Brandish to Makarov just means Brandish has more MP than Makarov. Literally nothing in that statement indicates that Makarov has more MP than Gray.
And what defines stronger hax? I don't buy your theory because that would mean someone like Brandish can't affect a Berserker (Enchanted Alvarez Soldier). And that would be absurd. It makes more sense for magic power to negate hax which is why an Enchanted Spriggan like Neinhart would be unaffected by Brandish's magic, yet a Berserker would be killed instantly.
Jellal saying he wouldn't kill them at the end means that was his intent since the beginning. Also, Jellal is definitely capable of destroying the Oración Seis.
The reason why Jellal seeemed tired and injured was because he was holding back. Had Jellal gone all out on them, he would have used his strongest attack (most likely Sema) from the start.
Jacob's durability is borderline average. He probably has less durability than Natsu, Gajeel, Mirajane, and Gray if we're including their strongest forms (like DF or DeS).
Aquarius was still stronger than Leo and even with her, Lucy was barely on par with DF Wendy. So in my book, Leo is quite inferior to DF Wendy. But he is probably a little stronger than Base Wendy.
Regulus Lucy Kick has no feats to prove that it is a strong attack so I don't believe its pure speculation. If you want to call it "part speculation", then I will agree to that for the sake of preventing an argument. Aqua Metria is stronger than that Regulus Lucy Kick because Aquarius > Leo.
To me, it doesn't matter. Fire Dragon's Claw and Fire Dragon's Iron Fist are both casual spells in this arc.
To All: Also, this past chapter is a prime example of why I said inconsistency exists in this manga. So for anyone who disagrees, that means you would have to acknowledge that Erza can tank an attack from someone of August's power because DeS Gray + E.N.D adds up to an insane amount of power especially when no magic was involved to block that attack. In other words, Erza is on the level of a Top-Tier Spriggan. Right?
You were going on about how because Gray had mp flowing out of him this automatically puts his mp at spriggan level, the panel i used debunks that because Makarov, a wizard who doesnt have spriggan level mp can also make MP flow off his body when he is mad.
I didnt say Makarov's mp was outstanding, just that it is greater than Gray's.
Fear in his eyes? Maybe cause a guy that should be dead is walking towards him? As he himself explained with the very same look in his eyes.
Transformation increase mp strength, doesnt increase the amount they have, think about it, if a powerup increased the amount of mp someone had wouldnt they be able to fight for longer rather than shorter? The way it works is that the wizard's mp strength(attack power) is increased in exchange for expending significantly more of it, this is explained both when Natsu went LFD mode and when Mirajane went Alegria, thats just the way it works in this manga.
Saving the best for last implies that Makarov is the best, cause Juliet and Hyne were gonna take him last.
I didnt say that age affects magic power, i said age affects endurance and stamina.
Didnt say Makarov trained. Yes, Makarov sets the bar, the fact that Gray was shocked that Brandish's magic power surpasses Makarovs rather than his own or Natsu's or Erza's implies as much.
Either way Gray cant have spriggan level mp because of his reaction to Brandish, none of them do, you dont have that kind of reaction to an opponent who has equal mp to you. are you seriously trying to say that Gray is so confident in the strength of his mp that he gets a reaction like that just by feeling someone who is equal to him? No, because that would be ridiculous, the only time Gray gets a reaction like that is when he is dealing with opponents with significantly more power than he does, like Jose or Hades, this fact is made even clearer when Gray himself states that he has never felt MP that great before.
What do you mean stronger hax? The stronger wizard has the stronger hax. Like i said the effort Eileen puts into the enchantment determines whether or not another's magic can alter them.
He is capable of destroying the OS in the sense he is capable of defeating them, yes, doesnt mean that his attacks would kill them outright though.
Holding back your strongest techniques back as a trump card is standard strategy in Fairy Tail, Jellal would be a fool to use Sema from the start.
Yeah, Jacob's durability is average among spriggans, i said that from the beginning, even without DF his durability is probably weaker than Natsu's.
Its never been said that Aquarious>Leo, in fact the opposite is implied since Loke is head of the Zodiacs.
Erza stopping their punch doesnt seem inconsistent to me, END and DeS Gray have been hitting each other in the faces for ages now without too much damage received, and yet by stopping one punch from each gave Erza's hands some pretty nasty looking injuries, much worse than what Gray and Natsu appear to have received in their extended battle, so if anything Natsu/Gray's faces>Erza's hands, pretty reasonable
Jellal definitely went all out against OS. He resorted to two of his best Spells just to beat them and was left staggering after the battle.
Gray didn't scare Invel with MP he surprised him because Invel thought he was dead. It literally states this in the next chapter.
Makarov doesn't have higher MP than Mira. Heine and Juliet made that assumption when Mira was in base of her power but when she activated her real power which flexed her MP they were scared sh!tless which means Mira had way higher MP than Makarov.
FDKM Natsu is definitely stronger than Pseudo END. He could be holding back but the feats he displayed weren't close to the caliber of FDKM.
DiMaria in or out of Takeover has good durability.
Brandish Mass Manipulation didn't work because Irene's enchantment not bcs the increase in MP. If it was bcs his MP increase then Brandish wouldn't have been shocked that it didn't work as she could feel his MP when he was boasting about how Irene increase his MP far surpassed his own.
Gray's MP definitely wasn't above Makarov's after the TS or he wouldn't of compared the sheer difference between Makarov's MP and Brandish. He was shocked that there was someone's magic greater than Makarov's implies his own isn't.
Leo is definitely not below Wendy. Pre-ts he stalemated Torafuza while being on a multiple summon so he wasn't at max, and before x791 he took out a 7kin relying on his own magic and took out Bixlow. Current Leo is definitely no slouch. Now who's stronger between him and Aquarius is weird because he's the supposed leader of the Zodiac Gates, but Lucy always called Aquarius her strongest spirit...it could be in attack power only or it could mean overall. It probably be toss up imo.
@Brandish
1/2. Juliet & Heine (they're even in power)
3. Marin
4. Bakel
5. Kareem
6. Neinhart Squad
Its possible, but without actually seeing Midnight attack i cant agree that he was participating at that point, Angel fights stationary too. Bottom line is that despite the numerous panel's Midnight appeared in while his 3 comrades were fighting, not one of those panels showed Midnight attacking, this seems like pretty clear indication than Midnight at the time was not participating, even in the intro to the fight where each OS member attacked Jellal one after the other, showcasing their individual abilities, Midnight did not attack, and if he was going to, it would have been then, not off panel
Highly doubt he just stood there and did nothing. A lot of the fight was offscreened, him not doing anything onscreen doesnt mean anything.
I disagree, not about capturing someone alive being more difficult, but that Jellal was worried about killing them in the first place, he didnt enter the battle to kill, but that doesnt mean he held out on them, like with Fairy Tail and most of their opponents, they rarely enter a battle to kill, and usually they dont, but that doesnt mean they were holding back.
Its quite different. They go all out and what happens happens (it just so happens that they rarely end up killing someone, although they sometimes do), in this case we KNOW that Jellal did not want to kill them because he wanted to recruit them.
Sema not killing them means it couldnt kill them, nothing about its portrayal implied Jellal held back, if anything he was using more effort than he ever had up until that point.
Ummm no. Even a technique like Altairis is portrayed to be capable of killing Erza and Natsu behind her, and that technique is weaker then Sema AND that was Pre-TS. ToH Erza is more durable then any of the OS (especially someone like Racer, who has pretty jobber durability), Sema would eradicate her. Hell, Jellal would have done some heavy damage to Jura (who is tiers ahead of the OS in durability). If Jellal wanted to, it is beyond reasonable doubt that he could erase their existence, its quite clear he deliberately put less power into it as to NOT kill them.
The roar against Bluenote probably represents a full power base one. I agree Natsu's current flames have to be more potent than base ones, but I can also see that particular roar against Bluenote eclipsing the one recently used. And I agree Ignatsu is definitely above. Maybe he will get stronger the more he demonises (sounds logical)... I expect his full power to be seen when he meets Zeref (given the instinct).
I have a hard time believing it. As far as AoE goes the roar is even smaller then many of his Pre-Tenrou roars so AoE is definitely not a factor. And this is essentially base Natsu augmented by END (even if slightly), its unreasonable that it would be weaker then a base roar used in just base.
With Takeover she has pretty good durability, without it she most certainly does not. At least not in comparison to most other Spriggan.
Brandish Mass Manipulation didn't work because Irene's enchantment not bcs the increase in MP. If it was bcs his MP increase then Brandish wouldn't have been shocked that it didn't work as she could feel his MP when he was boasting about how Irene increase his MP far surpassed his own.
lol no. It didn't work because of Neinharts MP, she follows up her abilities not working with just how strong has he gotten. I doubt Brandish knows the exact cap at which her abilities stop working, so she could still be shocked when they don't. This enchantment argument being the basis as to why Brandishs abilities did not work stems from the denial of hax being countered with superior power (shown time and time again, you still deny it lol). It really has no basis, absolutely no reason why a random enchantment that makes someone MP stronger would also have special properties that counters brandishes magic specifically.
Leo is definitely not below Wendy. Pre-ts he stalemated Torafuza while being on a multiple summon so he wasn't at max, and before x791 he took out a 7kin relying on his own magic and took out Bixlow. Current Leo is definitely no slouch. Now who's stronger between him and Aquarius is weird because he's the supposed leader of the Zodiac Gates, but Lucy always called Aquarius her strongest spirit...it could be in attack power only or it could mean overall. It probably be toss up imo.
I have a hard time believing it. As far as AoE goes the roar is even smaller then many of his Pre-Tenrou roars so AoE is definitely not a factor. And this is essentially base Natsu augmented by END (even if slightly), its unreasonable that it would be weaker then a base roar used in just base.
I wouldn't call AoE a non-factor. END's current flames to me are base flames enhanced/mixed with demonic power. If we say END's flames have double the power, then an equivalent roar would only need half the AoE (randomly assigning and assuming here). I doubt the END roar was full powered, I liken the effort similar to the one Invel froze. I'd probably say at best it's equal to the Bluenote one... it wouldn't measure up to the FDK one at all though.
Highly doubt he just stood there and did nothing. A lot of the fight was offscreened, him not doing anything onscreen doesnt mean anything.
Its quite different. They go all out and what happens happens (it just so happens that they rarely end up killing someone, although they sometimes do), in this case we KNOW that Jellal did not want to kill them because he wanted to recruit them.
Ummm no. Even a technique like Altairis is portrayed to be capable of killing Erza and Natsu behind her, and that technique is weaker then Sema AND that was Pre-TS. ToH Erza is more durable then any of the OS (especially someone like Racer, who has pretty jobber durability), Sema would eradicate her. Hell, Jellal would have done some heavy damage to Jura (who is tiers ahead of the OS in durability). If Jellal wanted to, it is beyond reasonable doubt that he could erase their existence, its quite clear he deliberately put less power into it as to NOT kill them.
I have a hard time believing it. As far as AoE goes the roar is even smaller then many of his Pre-Tenrou roars so AoE is definitely not a factor. And this is essentially base Natsu augmented by END (even if slightly), its unreasonable that it would be weaker then a base roar used in just base.
Why am I not surprised that you go straight into downplaying Jellal....
With Takeover she has pretty good durability, without it she most certainly does not. At least not in comparison to most other Spriggan.
lol no. It didn't work because of Neinharts MP, she follows up her abilities not working with just how strong has he gotten. I doubt Brandish knows the exact cap at which her abilities stop working, so she could still be shocked when they don't. This enchantment argument being the basis as to why Brandishs abilities did not work stems from the denial of hax being countered with superior power (shown time and time again, you still deny it lol). It really has no basis, absolutely no reason why a random enchantment that makes someone MP stronger would also have special properties that counters brandishes magic specifically.
He didn't stalemate Torafusa. He lost their exchange.
Nope there's no downplaying. The feats shown he got thrashed by 4 OS member and two of his best spells. He even needed a week worth of recovery lol.
Nah I still put her durability on Jacob's level.
Time and time again? She sensed his MP like everyone else when he was boasting off his new power if her powers were just countered by the level of MP she wouldn't of been surprised otherwise. It was Irene's enchantment that stopped her Mass Manipulation. Also she Mass Manipulated the dude who two shotted him and August's big as heck wound when he was in battle mode so power levels have nothing to do with it. Irene's enchantment was imbued into Neinhart which stopped Brandish from imbue-ing her magic into him.
