Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

Which side are you on?

  • Team Spriggan 12

    Votes: 48 51.6%
  • Team Diabolos/Dragon Eaters

    Votes: 45 48.4%

  • Total voters
    93

Static

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I would agree with this logic provided it makes sense in the storyline. But it doesn't. Originally, Eileen gave Neinhart an order which was to find Erza. There is no way she could have predicted that he would encounter Brandish + Team Natsu because his focus was on defeating Erza. Therefore, it is highly improbable for Eileen to single out Brandish and give Neinhart Anti-Mass Manipulation Enchantment, unless she made him immune to all the Spriggans' magic.

Personally, I believe "magic power" is all there is to it.
I completely agree with you.
________________________

My current Spriggan ranking :

12) One-shot club's no.1 member (guess who)
11) @Ajeel Ramal
10) @MLG Bradman
9) Jacob
8) Wall Eehto
7) @Brandish
6) Invel
5) One-shot club's no.2 member (guess who) (by portrayal)
4) @DiMaria Yesta
3) Larcade Dragneel (by hype)
2) @Belserion
1) @Orgastthemage

My Spriggan power-ranking is a mess right now. Because of all the inconsistencies recently, I really don't know which Spriggan to place where bar the top 3.
 

Kiki

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I would agree with this logic provided it makes sense in the storyline. But it doesn't. Originally, Eileen gave Neinhart an order which was to find Erza. There is no way she could have predicted that he would encounter Brandish + Team Natsu because his focus was on someone else. Therefore, it is highly improbable for Eileen to single out Brandish and give Neinhart Anti-Mass Manipulation Enchantment, unless she made him immune to all the Spriggans' magic.

Personally, I believe "magic power" is all there is to it.
You are right. The Japanese raw says:

Brandish:
"私の魔法が効かない!!?それほど強化されたのか!?"
"Watashi no mahou ga kikanai!!? Sore hodo kyouka sareta no ka!?"
"My magic does not work!!? Has he been enhanced that much!?"

If Irene's MP alone is the reason why Irene is stronger than DiMaria and Brandish (assuming she doesn't have magic that counters their hax), so, case closed?
 

XXEliteXXAceXX

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You are right. The Japanese raw says:

Brandish:
"私の魔法が効かない!!?それほど強化されたのか!?"
"Watashi no mahou ga kikanai!!? Sore hodo kyouka sareta no ka!?"
"My magic does not work!!? Has he been enhanced that much!?"

If Irene's MP alone is the reason why Irene is stronger than DiMaria and Brandish (assuming she doesn't have magic that counters their hax), so, case closed?
In my opinion, yes. But there are others who still disagree. So at this point, I guess its left up to interpretation.



Gray may not even be close to Makarov's mp, let alone a spriggans, you dont have that kind of reaction to someone only slightly more powerful.
Like I said, if you only go by reactions, then what about Brandish, Invel, and Makarov? They had similar reactions, yet you still believe Gray and Natsu are inferior to the Spriggans in MP.

Being scared of a guy that pretty much came back from the dead? Reasonable.
More like "shocked"... But if you want to call it "scared", then okay...

MP strength=Attack power of the spells you use.
What about Dragon Force?
So you're telling me a power-up only increases attack power? That's not true. Power-ups increase a character's overall stats including magic power, defense, speed, etc.

I'm asking if you think Dragon Force increases a dragon slayer's magic power or not. And what about Igneel's power-up?

It does imply it, its close to outright stating that Makarov>Mira.
Not really. And based on what was shown, Makarov is not superior to Mirajane.

I didnt say Age Seal affect endurance and stamina, i said age, as in how old you are, as in being and old man means you have less stamina.
Like I said, someone like Hades can last for a very long time in a fight even though he is very old. So age isn't a factor of stamina or endurance in this manga. It's no different from how size isn't a factor in this manga either.

Fallen behind sure, doesnt mean Makarovs MP isnt still the best, combat ability and mp are two different things.
Well, technically, it does. Makarov has no feats to suggest that he has a lot of MP.

So what if Gray's in his base form? He knows hsi power, and he was still crapping his pants at the sight of Brandish.
His reaction towards Brandish is not enough evidence. It's pretty clear that being surprised by someone's MP does not mean they are inferior to them.

Because there is no logic in Jellal going easy on the OS, used his strongest spell.
You can use your strongest spell and still hold back. Just like how you can use your weakest spell and still give it all you've got.

She was stated as strongest before she got Loke, after that she refers to both as trump cards.
Sure, Aquarius and Leo are both Lucy's trump cards. But Aquarius is still stronger.

Erza blocked the attacks, she didnt tank anything, you receive less damage when you block stuff.
That is my point... Erza blocking the attack doesn't make sense. She doesn't have enough power to perform such a feat. Even worse, she used no magic.

As for damage, Erza should have been critically injured just by standing in the middle of those two attacks.
 

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God Serena has Black eyes when he activated his Dragon Slayer magic does that mean August or Irene has enchanted his Powerlevel???
 

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GC is definitely above Altarias now. Those were two of his best spells and they were at full power as he was completely tired after using them.
No its not. I see no reason why it would be. GC is very very casual, as for them being at full power, its pretty obvious that they aren't but I am debating the same topic with 7 so whatever.

She easily tanked SS at the same time and was toying with them in base. Chronos durability is above every regular S12 thus far. She didn't flinch from a punch from DF Wendy which is quite the feat as even Natsu flinched from less powerful attacks.
She did not tank anything nor was she able to toy with them without age seal. As a matter of fact she almost instantly resorted to Chronos. Chronos durability is not even above Ajeels durability. Tanking a physical attack from Wendy doesn't mean shit, she is physically one of the weakest relevant mages in the series. Wendy's forte comes from her speed and magic. Jacobs physical attacks are way harder. Tanking Wolfheims punch and tanking Laxuses punches are laughably above Chronoses durability feats. Ajeel taking Jupiter with minimal injuries is also better.

Rustyrose?
The man who can imagine anything. On paper his hax is omnipotent, yet he's not because of PLs AKA he has his limits.

Mest was able to use his hax on an S12.
Barely. He managed to squeeze in a second long command when Brandish had her guard completely down. There is a reason he didn't just implant some memory into August ie LIMITS.

END didn't have MP so no it doesn't have anything to do with Power. Second pseudo END is having a difficult time with Gray who's MP isn't even S12 so... Yeah power levels has nothing to do with END moving in her Age Seal. Third moving through timestop altogether has nothing to do with Power levels. Fourth Brandish mass manipulated END's power so yeah it definitely has nothing to do with Power levels.
END has MP, he just uses curse. Even Bradman has MP, its just not as intimidating as that of other Spriggans. Gray managed to destroy Invel, who is Spriggan level. She outright says he was able to move in Age Seal, the denial is SOOOO strong with you. Brandish didn't do shit.

Racer never said he didn't slow their perception, he actually affected them since he was moving fast and Racer doesn't actually move fast. Erza and Jellal just have better reaction time than his perception magic slows down.
It shows that Racers hax magic has a limit to how much it can affect ones perception.

Makarov wasn't targeting the 12 he was going for the 1 mil berserkers and he only took down 70-80% before dying.
This is a joke. Have you forgotten how Fairy Law works? It defeats anyone within the AoE who Makarov deems an enemy, the Spriggans are enemies, they remained unaffected. This proves that Fairy Law has a limit.

Wahl countered with weakness which is why only the ones surrounding them were unaffected. Unless you're saying Wahl's subordinates far surpass the combined power of Tartarus Erza and Minerva. That also means Lisanna is far stronger than them too as she was beating them up....
Baseless (and dumb as well, wtf would Wahl save half his people and let the other half be LMAO). Miras macro simply couldn't affect numerous people at once, because it has a limit.

F.Rogue wasn't even stronger than one dragon let alone 7 and second Acnologia is the antithesis to hax in the verse. On top of that he's only part Dragon.
Doesn't make a damn difference. Rogues dragon manipulation is a hax, and it did not work on Acnologia. Proving that his hax has a limit. Acnologia being the antithesis to hax is almost as bad of an argument as that one time when you tried to claim that END is full of antihax and no less baseless.

It was already stated Evergreen's eye power didn't work because of Erza's false eye weakened it. Her eye powers were going to work on Rustyrose when his glasses got removed and he far surpasses her.
It was stated that Erzas prosthetic eye HALVED Evergreens ability aka IT HAS A LIMIT (you cannot halve an infinite).

Needless to say that difference forms of hax have different limits. Some hax only work on characters of their own level while other hax can work on characters several steps ahead but even those DO have a limit. Stop this denial, I haven't even gotten around to throwing the numerous fallacies you are using at you.

When has anyone in this show lowered their MP? Like I thought. If August truly let his PL down he would've gone out of his battle mode. Mest made her stabb him it's not like he was aware of the true extent of her abilities. She could've also made the blade a lot bigger than August body...so it definitely wasn't a rational or strategic attack when she hit him. Still shrunk ENDs powers and could shrink the person who two shotted him. Still not seeing where power levels come in.
If you can flex your MP there is absolutely no reason why you can't tame it. Do you even have proof that this is his battle mode? I don't think so. If she had made it bigger the sneak attack wouldn't have had a smooth follow through (ie August may have seen through it).

Showed 2 attacks from Angel as well as her in battle stance with feathers everywhere and saying that she had gotten warmed up. Bottom line is that you claiming that Midnight was fighting in the off panel portion of the fight is no different from me claiming that Jellal was using Meteor and other spells off panel too.
Thats a safe assumption. But no spell stronger then GC at the least, and GC isn't even top 3 in his arsenal.

I can claim it because nothing at all indicated that he was holding back in that battle, he wasnt worried about killing him because he didnt think his strongest attack would be fatal, and it wasnt.
If he wanted his spell to be fatal to them it would have. Its as simple as that.

Altaris took long enough for Erza to jump in front of Natsu, and then for Simon to run in front of Erza, anyone who wasnt critically injured could go and hide behind a small rock to survive, prob takes as long as Sema, and that's pretty long.
Jellal was answering Erzas question.

No, it really doesnt, because Altaris' only feat is killing Simon, and Sema's only feat is not killing the OS, if Jellal was really holding back with Sema he would have just finished the job with that Grand Chariot, but the fact that Jellal actually had to use Grand Chariot combined with Sema, confirms that Jellal was giving it his all and that neither attack was capable of defeating the Orecion Seis individually, let alone killing them.
Bro this is turning into a joke. Answer this, do you seriously believe that Sema is only as strong as the nameless spell that Gray used on Racer in the OS arc? You are failing to recognize the fact that both attacks did the same amount of damage to him, I am curious as to what your excuse for this fact is. You are also failing to recognize that Jellal thought sema would have dealt significant-->heavy damage to Jura (he chose to use it on him for the W at the cost of his identity), someone who is leagues above the OS in durability.

Uhuh, never mind the fact that Natsu had just taken a severe enough beating from Jellal that he could barely stand, never mind the fact that Jellal himself stated that Erza had already spent all her MP fighting Ikaruga, and despite that got into a grueling fight with Jellal afterwards, then later knocked out by Natsu, and was left to the point where all she could do was watch as Natsu was getting beaten up by Jellal, with so little strength that she couldnt even get up and help him out. Both Erza and Natsu were trashed at that point, killing them as they were is not impressive.
Injuries affect endurance, durability doesn't get hindered much.
 
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In my opinion, yes. But there are others who still disagree. So at this point, I guess its left up to interpretation.





Like I said, if you only go by reactions, then what about Brandish, Invel, and Makarov? They had similar reactions, yet you still believe Gray and Natsu are inferior to the Spriggans in MP.



More like "shocked"... But if you want to call it "scared", then okay...



So you're telling me a power-up only increases attack power? That's not true. Power-ups increase a character's overall stats including magic power, defense, speed, etc.

I'm asking if you think Dragon Force increases a dragon slayer's magic power or not. And what about Igneel's power-up?



Not really. And based on what was shown, Makarov is not superior to Mirajane.



Like I said, someone like Hades can last for a very long time in a fight even though he is very old. So age isn't a factor of stamina or endurance in this manga. It's no different from how size isn't a factor in this manga either.



Well, technically, it does. Makarov has no feats to suggest that he has a lot of MP.



His reaction towards Brandish is not enough evidence. It's pretty clear that being surprised by someone's MP does not mean they are inferior to them.



You can use your strongest spell and still hold back. Just like how you can use your weakest spell and still give it all you've got.



Sure, Aquarius and Leo are both Lucy's trump cards. But Aquarius is still stronger.



That is my point... Erza blocking the attack doesn't make sense. She doesn't have enough power to perform such a feat. Even worse, she used no magic.

As for damage, Erza should have been critically injured just by standing in the middle of those two attacks.
I do go by reactions, it makes no sense to react that way to someone only slightly above you.
To start off with, MP=/=Strength, it is just one aspect of what makes a character strong, so yes Brandish and Invel gave reactions to Gray and Natsu, however unlike the Gray/Brandish situation, MP was never mentioned, at all, not once, while with Gray it was all he could talk about.
For Brandish, she reacted to Natsu's strength, not to his MP, her judging Natsu by his MP is what led her to underestimating him in the first place.
For Invel, he was reacting to Gray coming back from the dead, he confirmed as much when he spoke, no mention of MP.
For Makarov, he was comparing Gray and Lucy to their Tartaros versions, and was very surprised by how much they improved, as he himself states, its similar to when Makarov was impressed by Natsu and Gajeel's improvement in GMG, just on a greater scale.

Wasnt i the one who said shocked and you were the one who said scared?

Sure, power up increases stats, doesnt give you more magic though, otherwise wizards would be able to fight longer while transformed, instead of shorter.
If Dragon Force is gained through eating Ethernano or someone elses magic, then sure, they get more MP, however if its a situation like what happened with Mard Geer where Natsu transformed through emotion alone, then no, magic power isnt increased as shown when Natsu without getting hit, completely ran out of power from just using 2 basic physical attacks and Phoenix Blade, as opposed to how he fought Zero for ages using many spells and taking many hits.

Not saying Mira isnt stronger than Makarov, just that if we are going by MP alone, Makarov is superior.

Hades maintained his strength through the use of the Demon Heart, which extended his life.

Gray still holds Makarov as Fairy Tail's strongest in terms of MP, that is enough.

His reaction towards Brandish is more than enough. I didnt say reacting to someones MP makes you inferior to them, i said being scared of someones MP alone means you dont have that much, you dont need more MP to be stronger than them.

If Jellal needed his strongest spell to win, that means he wasnt and couldnt hold back.

Find a panel of someone saying Aquarius is the strongest after Lucy obtained Leo and i will believe you.

Why doesnt Erza blocking it make sense? Honestly we're lucky Erza's hands even got damaged in the first place, imo even if END hit Erza in the face i doubt it would one shot her, she has always had great durability, good guys always do.

Thats a safe assumption. But no spell stronger then GC at the least, and GC isn't even top 3 in his arsenal.



If he wanted his spell to be fatal to them it would have. Its as simple as that.



Jellal was answering Erzas question.



Bro this is turning into a joke. Answer this, do you seriously believe that Sema is only as strong as the nameless spell that Gray used on Racer in the OS arc? You are failing to recognize the fact that both attacks did the same amount of damage to him, I am curious as to what your excuse for this fact is. You are also failing to recognize that Jellal thought sema would have dealt significant-->heavy damage to Jura (he chose to use it on him for the W at the cost of his identity), someone who is leagues above the OS in durability.



Injuries affect endurance, durability doesn't get hindered much.
Is it? Generally i dont like guessing things that happened off panel, but if youre also making assumptions about Jellal too then i can accept your opinion, at least there is no double standard.

I disagree, Jellal dropped the spell on them and they survived, there was no implication that Sema was limited.

Wasnt answering questions when Erza moved in front of Natsu, and Simon moved in front of Erza after Jellal had finished questions, that means two people can move at separate times a fair distance during Altaris' cast time, any decently fast wizard could run up and punch Jellal in the face.

You mean that very impressive Ice Bow? That although greatly injured Racer didnt actually finish him, let alone kill him, since he was still able to pull out the bombs and run at Lyon? Not quite, but its still a powerful spell, and its a single target piercing type spell, like Erza's swords. Significant damage to a powerful wizard doesnt mean instant death to an average one, like with Gajeel and Levy vs Bradman, Gajeel's durability is among the best, but Levy still survived quite a few attacks that dealt good damage to Gajeel. The difference in power it takes to kill someone compared to just defeating them is significant.
 
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No its not. I see no reason why it would be. GC is very very casual, as for them being at full power, its pretty obvious that they aren't but I am debating the same topic with 7 so whatever.



She did not tank anything nor was she able to toy with them without age seal. As a matter of fact she almost instantly resorted to Chronos. Chronos durability is not even above Ajeels durability. Tanking a physical attack from Wendy doesn't mean shit, she is physically one of the weakest relevant mages in the series. Wendy's forte comes from her speed and magic. Jacobs physical attacks are way harder. Tanking Wolfheims punch and tanking Laxuses punches are laughably above Chronoses durability feats. Ajeel taking Jupiter with minimal injuries is also better.



The man who can imagine anything. On paper his hax is omnipotent, yet he's not because of PLs AKA he has his limits.



Barely. He managed to squeeze in a second long command when Brandish had her guard completely down. There is a reason he didn't just implant some memory into August ie LIMITS.



END has MP, he just uses curse. Even Bradman has MP, its just not as intimidating as that of other Spriggans. Gray managed to destroy Invel, who is Spriggan level. She outright says he was able to move in Age Seal, the denial is SOOOO strong with you. Brandish didn't do shit.



It shows that Racers hax magic has a limit to how much it can affect ones perception.



This is a joke. Have you forgotten how Fairy Law works? It defeats anyone within the AoE who Makarov deems an enemy, the Spriggans are enemies, they remained unaffected. This proves that Fairy Law has a limit.



Baseless (and dumb as well, wtf would Wahl save half his people and let the other half be LMAO). Miras macro simply couldn't affect numerous people at once, because it has a limit.



Doesn't make a damn difference. Rogues dragon manipulation is a hax, and it did not work on Acnologia. Proving that his hax has a limit. Acnologia being the antithesis to hax is almost as bad of an argument as that one time when you tried to claim that END is full of antihax and no less baseless.



It was stated that Erzas prosthetic eye HALVED Evergreens ability aka IT HAS A LIMIT (you cannot halve an infinite).

Needless to say that difference forms of hax have different limits. Some hax only work on characters of their own level while other hax can work on characters several steps ahead but even those DO have a limit. Stop this denial, I haven't even gotten around to throwing the numerous fallacies you are using at you.



If you can flex your MP there is absolutely no reason why you can't tame it. Do you even have proof that this is his battle mode? I don't think so. If she had made it bigger the sneak attack wouldn't have had a smooth follow through (ie August may have seen through it).



Thats a safe assumption. But no spell stronger then GC at the least, and GC isn't even top 3 in his arsenal.



If he wanted his spell to be fatal to them it would have. Its as simple as that.



Jellal was answering Erzas question.



Bro this is turning into a joke. Answer this, do you seriously believe that Sema is only as strong as the nameless spell that Gray used on Racer in the OS arc? You are failing to recognize the fact that both attacks did the same amount of damage to him, I am curious as to what your excuse for this fact is. You are also failing to recognize that Jellal thought sema would have dealt significant-->heavy damage to Jura (he chose to use it on him for the W at the cost of his identity), someone who is leagues above the OS in durability.



Injuries affect endurance, durability doesn't get hindered much.
He was wiped out after using it that was his max.

You sound ridiculous. She was toying with the SS the entire time and only got serious when Sherria GS started affecting her. You're hilarious Wahl only took Laxus punches bcs lightning immunity, Jupiter is doing jack squat to DiMaria, and Jacob is getting pushed back by base Mira punches. Wolfenheim literally has zero feats to say his punches are what you're making it out to be and GS flinched. Like I said even Natsu flinched from far weaker attacks than DF Wendy. Also Lucy was tanking Jacob's attacks and he was pissed at them while DiMaria attack would've killed a Max potential God Slayer if not for Wendy's enchantment.

http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Arc_of_Embodiment He can only power his manifestation to the extent of his MP. Nothing to do with hax that affects others.

Barely my ass. You can't barely alter ones memories. Second Mest is fodder tier yet his hax works on an S12.... Doesn't matter if he didn't use it on August he still used it on a S12 lol. You forget August is also the King of Magic, he'd easily sense that Mest was trying to alter his memories and counter.

END doesn't have magic or he wouldn't have gotten out of the sealing cuffs. No duh she said that, but that had nothing to do with power levels. Brandish shrunk END powers or did you not read that? Gray only won against Invel bcs of ice advantage, PIS, and PoF. It had nothing to do with magical power.

If Racer could constantly slow peoples perception then they wouldn't even be able to perceive Racer. He has a limit to how much he lowers perception NOT who he can affect with it.

Yeah I'm the joke yet you didn't even read that Makarov's life force was almost diminished and that FL was going to suck the rest out. He didn't even fully take out the 1 mil army so him not taking out the S12 is understandable.

Doesn't make a difference just shows ignorance. Rogue is weaker than the Dragons yet his hax works on them. Hello that easily disproves your claim of hax not affecting people who are stronger.

Evergreen's eye magic wasn't broken bcs MP it was because of Erza's eye. You are straight going off track in your entire argument about PL stopping hax.

You don't even know what you're talking about at this point. Seriously you were first saying greater MP overpowers hax but now you're talking about individual limitation of hax that has nothing to do with power levels. Know what the meaning of fallacy is before loosely using it.

I'm still waiting when anyone in the verse has lowered their MP.... Really that isn't his battle mode =_=. It's a mode obviously stronger than his base and guess what, Base August's MP >>>>>>>>> Enhanced Neinhart's MP. Brandish affecting the guy who two shotted him shows it was indeed Irene's enchantment that stopped Brandish from affecting Neinhart.
 
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There are several inconsistencies with hax. Sometimes hax is affected by MP or another factor, sometimes its not. It all depends on Mashima, he bends the rules of the verse to progress the plot or sometimes other things. That's what I've noticed several times.
 

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It's not so much that there are inconsistencies, but each hax should be treated separately, as there are rules for a hax.

Mystogan's sleep hax worked on Erza, but it didn't work on Laxus. So for that hax, it didn't work on people at Mystogan's level.

For something like Mest's hax, he used it on Brandish, someone vastly superior. So for that hax, it was still viable even with a huge power difference.

I tend to wait for a hax to prove itself before completely buying it. Villains often have the hax powers, and they are usually hyped. So it always seems like these hax are immensely powerful.
 

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It's not so much that there are inconsistencies, but each hax should be treated separately, as there are rules for a hax.

Mystogan's sleep hax worked on Erza, but it didn't work on Laxus. So for that hax, it didn't work on people at Mystogan's level.

For something like Mest's hax, he used it on Brandish, someone vastly superior. So for that hax, it was still viable even with a huge power difference.

I tend to wait for a hax to prove itself before completely buying it. Villains often have the hax powers, and they are usually hyped. So it always seems like these hax are immensely powerful.
That's a good point as well. Each hax as their own limit or sometimes no limit at all (until proven). Dimaria's Age Seal is also one good example, it likely works on people who have a higher MP than her but people who surpass 'the Gods' powers' can resist it or are immune to it, like END. But considering current END is on current Gray's... (and no, before anyone says it, current Gray is Spriggan-tier) it might be a plot hole or like @Jko said a counter, although I find that less likely.

Honestly, I find predicting the rules of a hax really hard lol. It all depends on how Mashima wants to make it.
 

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I don't think current Gray is a plot hole at all. Darkness was introduced as a power, and he's riding an emotional high. I expect him to be immensely powerful - compared to his lesser strength before his fight with Invel.

The only disappointment is END in terms of hype, but hype isn't exactly reliable. And whether or not END is fully transformed is also to be considered.

Honestly, I find predicting the rules of a hax really hard lol. It all depends on how Mashima wants to make it.
Yea that's why it's best not to predict it. Eventually Hiro will show how a hax gets beat.
 

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Yea that's why it's best not to predict it. Eventually Hiro will show how a hax gets beat.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I don't think current Gray is a plot hole at all. Darkness was introduced as a power, and he's riding an emotional high. I expect him to be immensely powerful - compared to his lesser strength before his fight with Invel.

The only disappointment is END in terms of hype, but hype isn't exactly reliable. And whether or not END is fully transformed is also to be considered.



Yea that's why it's best not to predict it. Eventually Hiro will show how a hax gets beat.
No what I meant as plot hole is that current END is on par with current Gray who is high-Spriggan level (in my view) even though END was able to break through Age Seal although it might be that the Slayer ability is closing the gap by A LOT
 

Brandish μ

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No what I meant as plot hole is that current END is on par with current Gray who is high-Spriggan level (in my view) even though END was able to break through Age Seal although it might be that the Slayer ability is closing the gap by A LOT
Oh, I see your point now. Well Natsu does have a lot of power in him - the demonic power source - but whether he can fully tap into it right now is yet to be seen. If he's still transforming, then I imagine he is going to get more powerful than what he showed since he beat Mari.

Gray was able to magically and physically keep up with Natsu. Even if he couldn't hurt Natsu, he was still able to hold his own. Honestly the slayer advantage wasn't even noticeable. I assume because Natsu hasn't demonised properly that he was able to tank the attacks... because Gray should be doing vast damage if there power level is similar.
 

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Oh, I see your point now. Well Natsu does have a lot of power in him - the demonic power source - but whether he can fully tap into it right now is yet to be seen. If he's still transforming, then I imagine he is going to get more powerful than what he showed since he beat Mari.

Gray was able to magically and physically keep up with Natsu. Even if he couldn't hurt Natsu, he was still able to hold his own. Honestly the slayer advantage wasn't even noticeable. I assume because Natsu hasn't demonised properly that he was able to tank the attacks... because Gray should be doing vast damage if there power level is similar.
I don't think his half transformation is effecting his Slayer disadvantage.One logical exampe is that in Tartaros Arc Natsu was one shotted by Silver using Des while Mard couldn't one shot him.And if both of their MP and Curse power is same then Gray would have one shotted him.It's logical Natsu's curse power is far above Gray.Only one attack of Natsu hit him and it pained him(you can see him making pain sounds) but Natsu has tanked all Des Magic till now.
 

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Gray's DeS also helps him tank demonic attacks, probably why his tattoos are spreading even further
 

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Gray's DeS also helps him tank demonic attacks, probably why his tattoos are spreading even further
Oh yeah he absorbed MM from Mard.May be he is resistant to Demonic attacks.
 

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Darkness was introduced as a power, and he's riding an emotional high.
I agree with this darkness thing, although having 'emotions' in the same sentence sort of muddles it up, but I won't go too far into that.
Anyway, I don't agree that it was something that came up after Juvia's death, check out this panel in Avatar.
So basically, it was something he always had from the moment he got DeS Magic. There's nothing regarding emotions in this case.
compared to his lesser strength before his fight with Invel.
Except for the fact that there is no lesser strength here to talk about, Gray before and after his fight with Invel is the same person as far as his strength is concerned.
One logical exampe is that in Tartaros Arc Natsu was one shotted by Silver using Des while Mard couldn't one shot him.
Um, this has nothing to do with Slayer attribute. considering that fact Natsu is a human who has his Demonic Side sealed away in a Book. And technically Mard did one shot him with his Prison Flower before Gray showed up and froze it.
 

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I agree with this darkness thing, although having 'emotions' in the same sentence sort of muddles it up, but I won't go too far into that.
Anyway, I don't agree that it was something that came up after Juvia's death, check out this panel in Avatar.
So basically, it was something he always had from the moment he got DeS Magic. There's nothing regarding emotions in this case.

Except for the fact that there is no lesser strength here to talk about, Gray before and after his fight with Invel is the same person as far as his strength is concerned.

Um, this has nothing to do with Slayer attribute. considering that fact Natsu is a human who has his Demonic Side sealed away in a Book. And technically Mard did one shot him with his Prison Flower before Gray showed up and froze it.
No Natsu's body still has lot of Demonic particles.You know he was basically revived through this.Mard didn't one shot him in the first.Prison flower was used lot later.Silver casually one shotted him with just a single attack.He didn't need more than one attack even in casual mode.
 
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Here's my take on Gray's strength in this arc:
Firstly, I'll evaluate the battles he has fought
- VS Weakness Bots- He was being attacked by normal flames but wasn't overwhelmed. Sorted the problem by exchanging opponents with Juvia. Defeated an ice bot.
- VS Ul (with Lyon)- Was holding back until the end. Fought off easily after being emotionally overwhelmed for a while.
- VS Invel - Pure Gray Fullbuster fight. He was up to something ever since the fight began. He could've won it even if the whole Juvia stuff did not happen (there was a panel where he understands how to handle Invel) but when it did, it raised his adrenaline levels and he became the most aggressive he's ever been and this is exactly what darkness does to you. But still, he used strategy to use Invel's ice against him and what has been shown in this battle officially adds to the fact that Gray has trained harder.
- VS END - This one sorts it out, really.He still has that DeS advantage going for him, but the way he fought is definitely not how he fought in the past arcs. If he wasn't close to Invel's level initially, Natsu would've steamrolled him (with or without darkness taking over) . This is an incomplete END that Gray is competing with, the one that nearly killed Dimaria. While its true he has an ability holding him up there, but that wouldn't have happened if he wasn't trained enough
So yeah, Gray is really mid-Spriggan tier. If you guys are content with Gajeel keeping up without any specific training then we have Gray who trained well for six months, at least. Isn't that why he's facing the repercussions of DeS magic? Isn't that why he is stronger?
 
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Brandish μ

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I agree with this darkness thing, although having 'emotions' in the same sentence sort of muddles it up, but I won't go too far into that.
Anyway, I don't agree that it was something that came up after Juvia's death, check out this panel in Avatar.
Darkness is more than likely associated with negative emotions. For example, Gray killing Juvia was meant to provide enough guilt for his darkness to fully awaken. Given Juvia's death and his familiy/Ur is on his mind (on panel) this should fuel the darkness within him.

And I mean the power up itself only came up after Gray's death... darkness has been spoke of throughout the manga at times, but only Invel spoke of it being directly used as a power in people iirc.

Except for the fact that there is no lesser strength here to talk about, Gray before and after his fight with Invel is the same person as far as his strength is concerned.
No he isn't. He clearly got a rise in magic power through his darkness spilling out. The way it's explained, Gray had to bring out the darkness to use it's power - it was on the brink of releasing. It's basically a negative emotions version of PoF, but likely a permanent power up.

Or what other explanations could there be for Gray getting handled while demonised (498) to owning in base (500)?

To me he was slightly below Erza pre-499, now he's up there with Natsu.
 
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