Base Natsu is the most powerful being in the FT universe. There isn't actually anyone that could actually beat him save for Nakama powered fire pants Erza.
Coming up with something called a "secret art" on the spot seems pretty unreasonable(are these characters geniuses?). As for why not on Erigor, Aria etc, perhaps he had yet to come up with the moves at that point, perhaps he wasnt confident he could properly pull it off. Dunno why he didnt use it earlier against Laxus, why didnt Laxus use Raging Bolt earlier? Probably just cause its more interesting to read fights that way.
Cana was behind Gildarts. It looks like they were hit at the same time cause August is fast.
Blitzing base August>Not blitzing base Eileen. Gildarts>Erza.
Gildart's actually defeated Bluenote, Erza didnt defeat Eileen, no double standard.
Makarov said Erza "might" have a chance at beating Laxus. So naturally some fans thought she had a chance, some thought she didnt have a chance. Reasonable considering Makarov didnt just say "she has a chance", he said she "might" so the fandom are well within their rights to go either way.
What did i say about Erza being replaced by Mira?
Jura wouldnt defeat them easily, he might be able to beat them though. Hype coming from Mira herself>hype coming from a Pumpkin.
How did Erza tank an attack from Makarov+Gildarts etc then?
Again with calling everyone hypcrites? I guess you're just the only one with your head on straight? Jeeze dude...
Oh yeah, and you determine who's the hypocrite right? Cause they're not holding up to your standards? Haha, i dont think so. People arent hypocrites for not judging the validity of hype or what have you, the same way you do. Nothing wrong with viewing some hype more credible than others.
Why would you expect someone that believes Laxus can oneshot Ajeel to believe Deus Sema hype? After all you constantly back Deus Sema hype but always deny Azir oneshot hype... or does it not work in reverse? Oh, of course not. It only works if its convenient for you hyping Erza, silly of me to ask.
Looking for deviations of your "standards"? There you go, right above this point.
thats because its an ass pull. hiding such a powerful move when the person really really needs it. but next day bangs it comes out of nowhere.
that is why natsu didnt use it against jellal.
or laxus didnt use red lightening in the start
or erza didnt use her meteor destroying slash to straight off kill ajeel.
pretty much the same reason base natsu now is above infinte power zeref.
you will never be able to reason it
doesnt look like it at all. gildart and cana both had a block up. there trajectory shows they were hit at the same time. and of course one swing
even if i agree metero august is faster than erza, its not by much.
what does actually defeating means here.
gildart did something. that feat alone means he can kill a high tier with that effort. defeating bluenote has nothing to do here. that just means he is alot stronger.
erza did same thing, why is that feat alone not as worthy as gildart feats. she used more of her power to accomplish this than gildart did to accomplish the same thing.
this is example of hypocrisy. trying to come up with stupid reasons to justify your bias.
basically a non bais person will say
gildart used 60% of his power to over power boss top tier move. thus he will need 60% of his power to kill a top tier.
erza used 90% of her power to over power boss top tier move. thus she will need 90% of her power to kill a top tier.
the bais fandom dont go like ezra has a chance lol
they go like erza has a chance against laxus. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
erza + mira + aconlogia vs laxus is a better fight
yes gajeel was said to be the strongest, just like nienhart was said to be equal to the strongest mage in ishigar.
so this all that makes something real
than you are right gajeel > aria
and nienhart > laxus
but if you remember aria was low diffing natsu. same natsu took out gajeel.
so how much one must believe in hype over feats?
Jura wouldnt defeat them easily, he wont defeat them period. his beating SO erza alone will be shocking accomplishment on his part
"Hype coming from Mira herself>hype coming from the king" says who?
"How did Erza tank an attack from Makarov+Gildarts etc then?"
she did not. azuma nuke had their powers (which is cannon). but not all of it was used in the nuke.
it just means that nuke was well above azuma tier. it was the only hit that nearly took erza out in a fight.
what do you want me to call them huh
giladrt does A, it means he can kill high tier
erza does A, its means a low tier can do it too.
nice try.
i infact dont believe in either.
as laxus vs wahl clearly shows. laxus aint taking out any normal springgan without a high diff fight
and human above erza can indeed stop dues sema, like august , natsu and gildarts
same here because ur the only1 that wanking erza like crazy
no that isnt my logic because anco wasnt taking any damage nor did U1 didnt anything to him it wasnt like it gave irene an advantage to beat acno and it wasnt like erza who needed help to beat ajeel in a 1v1.
lol sand world wasnt able to detect ajeel with her water/wind armor
did i ever said erza beat END?? go reread my post from the beginning and and what is this partial END u keep saying that there no such thing as Partial END
yes i agree gray>dimaria
i know that irene>invel. just like natsu>invel and laxus>invel but u dont wanna agree with that tho because it laxus
and i already told u that its either dimaria TS has limit range or wahl is immnue to it also laxus speedblitz her be4 she uses it or it doesnt work on him. plus im saying that its debatable if TS would work on TO cherria (if ultear wasnt there) unless u believe she is stronger than laxus and wahl.
laxus portyal/hype is that he can oneshot a spriggan that gave erza extreme difficulty also zeref hype him by expecting him to fight him first. erza bust a meteor which is very impressive but ur logic since laxus hasnt a capable feat is the same logic with zeref and anco. i know zeref>irene sometimes is common sense who is stronger than who by hype and portrayal. also powerscaling is there laxus can bust that meteor with ragiing blot gildartz cana bust with crash magic. acno can bust that meteor with a casual roar we all know that they can but ur saying no because they didnt fight irene.
irrelevent because both of the first attacks moves was easily counter than their "strongest moves"
show me that anco power feat>erzas according to ur logic
let me tell me your logic
erza could not deal with sand world, thus she is weak. she indeed got no injuries from it.
aconologia indeed could not deal with U1, nor could he eat it.
by your logic irene > acnologia
"irene>invel. just like natsu>invel and laxus>invel"
lol no
irene >>> invel
natsu >>> invel
laxus> invel
or irene >> laxus for your understanding
so we are back to the same drawing baord, not being able to deal with a specific magic, does not equal weak.
laxus portrayal is one shot a springgan
erza portrayal is over power a move which will anihilate laxus + wahl at the same time
"also powerscaling is there laxus can bust that meteor with ragiing blot gildartz cana bust with crash magic. acno can bust that meteor with a casual roar we all know that they can but ur saying no because they didnt fight irene
show me that anco power feat>erzas according to ur logic"
power scaling does not mean giving feats of stronger mages to weaker mages. so laxus cant destroying deus sema anymore than lucy can red lightening kill wahl.
aconologia went through igneel remember.
find it your self, right after marin stop helping ajeel. ajeel ending up being blown in the ship.
thats because its an ass pull. hiding such a powerful move when the person really really needs it. but next day bangs it comes out of nowhere.
that is why natsu didnt use it against jellal.
or laxus didnt use red lightening in the start
or erza didnt use her meteor destroying slash to straight off kill ajeel.
pretty much the same reason base natsu now is above infinte power zeref.
you will never be able to reason it
doesnt look like it at all. gildart and cana both had a block up. there trajectory shows they were hit at the same time. and of course one swing
even if i agree metero august is faster than erza, its not by much.
what does actually defeating means here.
gildart did something. that feat alone means he can kill a high tier with that effort. defeating bluenote has nothing to do here. that just means he is alot stronger.
erza did same thing, why is that feat alone not as worthy as gildart feats. she used more of her power to accomplish this than gildart did to accomplish the same thing.
this is example of hypocrisy. trying to come up with stupid reasons to justify your bias.
the bais fandom dont go like ezra has a chance lol
they go like erza has a chance against laxus. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
erza + mira + aconlogia vs laxus is a better fight
yes gajeel was said to be the strongest, just like nienhart was said to be equal to the strongest mage in ishigar.
so this all that makes something real
than you are right gajeel > aria
and nienhart > laxus
but if you remember aria was low diffing natsu. same natsu took out gajeel.
so how much one must believe in hype over feats?
Jura wouldnt defeat them easily, he wont defeat them period. his beating SO erza alone will be shocking accomplishment on his part
"Hype coming from Mira herself>hype coming from the king" says who?
"How did Erza tank an attack from Makarov+Gildarts etc then?"
she did not. azuma nuke had their powers (which is cannon). but not all of it was used in the nuke.
it just means that nuke was well above azuma tier. it was the only hit that nearly took erza out in a fight.
what do you want me to call them huh
giladrt does A, it means he can kill high tier
erza does A, its means a low tier can do it too.
nice try.
i infact dont believe in either.
as laxus vs wahl clearly shows. laxus aint taking out any normal springgan without a high diff fight
and human above erza can indeed stop dues sema, like august , natsu and gildarts
Uhuh, i guess thats also why Natsu didnt use Dragon Force immediately against Zeref right? Natsu just made up Dragon Force right then and there, uhuh.
True about Natsu>Infinite Magic
Gildarts is probably faster than Erza, the guy that blitzed Gildarts is much faster.
Defeating a top tier means you can easily defeat a mid tier. Defeating a top tier spell doesnt mean the same thing if you cant also beat the caster.
Ha, yeah, like the bias fandom actually had a few people voting Erza beats August, i guess Erza is just too popular, people give her the benefit of the doubt
Dont you know? Neinhart is back to normal tier now, since both Jellal and base Natsu are OP now.
Natsu was weaker against Aria than he was against Gajeel, you should know this, your girl Erza is the one who said it. Gajeel>Aria, its canon.
Jura might defeat Erza and Mira at the same time, as Mira said.
Mira hype is better than Pumpkin's to the fandom, you can disagree if you like, but its not bias for some people to take Mira more seriously.
The fact that Mavis, who saw Erza beat the S class+99 other monsters, still thought beating Jura was impossible, all but proves S class monster<<<Jura, so yeah, understandable that no one believes Pumpkin.
Yes, Tera Clamore didnt have all their powers, which means its still just an Azuma tier attack because all his attacks come from somewhere else anyway. Taking control of Tenrou doesnt make his attacks stronger, he already had control of the power within his immediate vicinity when he fought Mira, after taking control he just had access to the whole island. It gave Azuma more ammunition than he already had, but the bullets were still the same caliber.
Except Gildarts does A, and he did beat a high tier
Erza did A, and she didnt beat a high tier
Perfectly reasonable.
Funny, i seem to remember you saying Gildart's and August couldnt stop Deus Sema, and you laughed at Natsu being able to stop it.
Maybe Hiro Mashima want to achieve something different in manga history, now when you read anywhere in comments when they reffering nakama shit power they will always say "Fairy Tail" as the refrences, it really is something to be proud of.... making a trend in manga history as a whole isn't that easy lol i'm being positiv here, even after this shitty chapter 536........... i'm so tired of this power scaling.........
Uhuh, i guess thats also why Natsu didnt use Dragon Force immediately against Zeref right? Natsu just made up Dragon Force right then and there, uhuh.
True about Natsu>Infinite Magic
Gildarts is probably faster than Erza, the guy that blitzed Gildarts is much faster.
Defeating a top tier means you can easily defeat a mid tier. Defeating a top tier spell doesnt mean the same thing if you cant also beat the caster.
Ha, yeah, like the bias fandom actually had a few people voting Erza beats August, i guess Erza is just too popular, people give her the benefit of the doubt
Dont you know? Neinhart is back to normal tier now, since both Jellal and base Natsu are OP now.
Natsu was weaker against Aria than he was against Gajeel, you should know this, your girl Erza is the one who said it. Gajeel>Aria, its canon.
Jura might defeat Erza and Mira at the same time, as Mira said.
Mira hype is better than Pumpkin's to the fandom, you can disagree if you like, but its not bias for some people to take Mira more seriously.
The fact that Mavis, who saw Erza beat the S class+99 other monsters, still thought beating Jura was impossible, all but proves S class monster<<<Jura, so yeah, understandable that no one believes Pumpkin.
Yes, Tera Clamore didnt have all their powers, which means its still just an Azuma tier attack because all his attacks come from somewhere else anyway. Taking control of Tenrou doesnt make his attacks stronger, he already had control of the power within his immediate vicinity when he fought Mira, after taking control he just had access to the whole island. It gave Azuma more ammunition than he already had, but the bullets were still the same caliber.
Except Gildarts does A, and he did beat a high tier
Erza did A, and she didnt beat a high tier
Perfectly reasonable.
Funny, i seem to remember you saying Gildart's and August couldnt stop Deus Sema, and you laughed at Natsu being able to stop it.
any move that comes out of nowhere is an ass pull.
it conveniently just appears when author has nothing else to do.
no proof of gildart being faster than erza.
no proof of august being fast at all.
what you mean. defeating a top tier spell is a power feat or not, why does it need to be backed by other feats?
power feat shows how much someone packs a punch, they can be horribly slow or over all bad at fighting. but power feat stand on its own.
o natsu was weaker then. but you cant agree that erza was weaker against ajeel than she was against irene. as expected of you. always different standards for erza.
lol, so few. still more logical. august was having trouble with cana cards. he aint surviving the deus sema destroying move. he cant retain copy magic either. he will have severe problem against erza. other than ars magic, he actually has no move to put erza down.
yes and irene might be able to kill august + laxus + gildart at the same time, as irene said
it does become bais, when it becomes a standard. all hypes for fan favorite accepted, all hypes for the hated character rejected.
yes, and that erza was pr ts erza. but conveniently forget that.
so you are saying there is only small gap between azuma tier attack and entire fairy combine attack. i dont follow your logic at all. no other nuke was like that. tera clemare is just tenrou energy being released that is it.
"Except Gildarts does A, and he did beat a high tier
Erza did A, and she didnt beat a high tier
Perfectly reasonable."
so basically doing A means absolutely nothing. yeah i figure you would say that after erza does it.
'A' is a power feat of its own. you said that amount of power it takes to kill a high tier. taking out a boss is another feat.
we were probably on that stage where you agree 100% on one hype, so balance stuff up, i would say the other hype is 100% true.
gildart nor august has the feat. but if you remember i always said erza over powered august tier top tier move.
gildart might be able to.
august can with some struggle.
any move that comes out of nowhere is an ass pull.
it conveniently just appears when author has nothing else to do.
no proof of gildart being faster than erza.
no proof of august being fast at all.
what you mean. defeating a top tier spell is a power feat or not, why does it need to be backed by other feats?
power feat shows how much someone packs a punch, they can be horribly slow or over all bad at fighting. but power feat stand on its own.
o natsu was weaker then. but you cant agree that erza was weaker against ajeel than she was against irene. as expected of you. always different standards for erza.
lol, so few. still more logical. august was having trouble with cana cards. he aint surviving the deus sema destroying move. he cant retain copy magic either. he will have severe problem against erza. other than ars magic, he actually has no move to put erza down.
yes and irene might be able to kill august + laxus + gildart at the same time, as irene said
it does become bais, when it becomes a standard. all hypes for fan favorite accepted, all hypes for the hated character rejected.
yes, and that erza was pr ts erza. but conveniently forget that.
so you are saying there is only small gap between azuma tier attack and entire fairy combine attack. i dont follow your logic at all. no other nuke was like that. tera clemare is just tenrou energy being released that is it.
"Except Gildarts does A, and he did beat a high tier
Erza did A, and she didnt beat a high tier
Perfectly reasonable."
so basically doing A means absolutely nothing. yeah i figure you would say that after erza does it.
'A' is a power feat of its own. you said that amount of power it takes to kill a high tier. taking out a boss is another feat.
we were probably on that stage where you agree 100% on one hype, so balance stuff up, i would say the other hype is 100% true.
gildart nor august has the feat. but if you remember i always said erza over powered august tier top tier move.
gildart might be able to.
august can with some struggle.
Alright, then everythings an asspull, better?
No proof that you'll accept certainly, but its all there.
No one said Erza was weaker against Ajeel, people did say Natsu was weaker against Aria.
Haha, yeah, those "logical" people, thinking Erza can beat August despite being unable to beat his equal so many Erza fans...shes just too popular
Except it has nothing to do with their "favorite" character, only to do with the source of the hype, which some find more/less credible than others.
Sure, destroying the attack is a power feat, but it isnt a power feat that means you can oneshot opponents weaker than the caster. For instance, if Gildarts actually lost to Bluenote after destroying Black Hole, i wouldnt be saying he'd oneshots most of the 7 kin, especially if he had an extreme diff fight with Kain earlier in the arc.
"A" doesnt mean nothing, but it doesnt mean Erza can oneshot Ajeel, when she didnt actually do it whe she fought him.
I'm saying Azuma always drew his power from Tenrou, and he never used "all" of that power. The fact that Tenrou now contained FT's power as well doesnt change anything, because he never used "all" of what he already had in the first place. Having more ammo doesnt make each shot more deadly.
Haha, yeah, you were just "balancing" it out, sure.
Since the series is coming to an end, I thought "why not?" (This is list excluding the Gods)
Big 3"Dragon...Human... Immortal" (tier 0)
Natsu=> FH Zeref > Acno (canon)
Strongest race of beings (tier 1)
Igneel > Dragon Queen Irene => most elder/legendary Dragons
Legendary mages (tier 2)
August > Jr/ordinary Dragons (though August might not beat them due to Dragon physiology, I rank the diversity of his power higher)
Grand master mages (Tier 2.25)
Larcade (unique S12), Dragon born Erza
Although I am tempted to make a long post in an attempt to make things explicit and thorough with regard to power level discussions, I'll keep this one short for now, and depending on the response, I could just add stuff later.
So I want to ask, of the four top antagonists so far, namely Acnologia, Zeref, August, and Irene, who among them was under-explored the most due to Mashima rushing things? And given this predicament shared by all four, under what conditions do we say that they simply didn't get to show their full potential, and under what conditions do we dare to say that they actually aren't as strong as they are portrayed and hyped up to be? Finally, what reasons or motives or commitments do we have for downplaying one or optimizing another?
Although I am tempted to make a long post in an attempt to make things explicit and thorough with regard to power level discussions, I'll keep this one short for now, and depending on the response, I could just add stuff later.
So I want to ask, of the four top antagonists so far, namely Acnologia, Zeref, August, and Irene, who among them was under-explored the most due to Mashima rushing things? And given this predicament shared by all four, under what conditions do we say that they simply didn't get to show their full potential, and under what conditions do we dare to say that they actually aren't as strong as they are portrayed and hyped up to be? Finally, what reasons or motives or commitments do we have for downplaying one or optimizing another?
- Acno, no contest. Zeref accomplishment supercedes Acno, as did Dragon Queen Irene even though she probably wasn't meant to be as important as Acno. Acno was just wasted & worthless; ultimately a powerful fodder.
- Not sure what other power those 4 were meant to display. All were even more powerful than I originally thought they would become. For example, Zeref having complete dominance over time & space, Irene turning out to be the Dragon Queen, Acno immunity (even potent absorption) to conversational magic, August copying most magic. All these were overpowered, and there's no reason to actually downplay their power. Demonstration of power (or lack of) wasn't a factor, it was plot. The Hero were destined to take them down so they had to power-up to do so.
so many Erza fans...shes just too popular
