Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[WoWfan]

@Nemispelled actually it does as magic can be inherited or be genetic or born with magic since Tower of Heaven. And red lightning is just another magic hax just like END’s power to surpass god powers. And it is proven that power of feelings is a legitimate power up

 

[Nemispelled]

@Nemispelled actually it does as magic can be inherited or be genetic or born with magic since Tower of Heaven. And red lightning is just another magic hax just like END’s power to surpass god powers. And it is proven that power of feelings is a legitimate power up

If PoF is a legitimate power up, then why are people criticizing Gray for using "PoF" in his fight against Invel?

The double-standard shows.... Either PoF is treated as legitimate or not. If you accuse one character of using PoF, you have to accuse all the other characters that use it.

If Red Lighting is legitimate, then Gray beat Invel fair and square. I don't see why people are trying to make up excuses for "why Gray won" when they give Laxus a break for using PoF.

 

[WoWfan]

They’re just being uneducated that’s why, and plus he has two power sources, besides PoF, he becomes stronger with the darkness in his heart via his Devil slayer powers. And invel wanted him to be strong enough to kill END.

There is no DS, all characters can us PoF, they just don’t realize or don’t use it.

Nothing says it wasn’t either way

 

[Jko]

Let me summarize what @WoWfan is saying. If Acno, the strongest in the verse, couldn't overcome Zeref's immortality through sheer power then by your logic Acno is not stronger than the Gods bcs he can't just overpower the curse of Ankhseram with sheer magic power alone. But we've already seen that's not the case as hax has worked numerous times on people several tiers above the user. E.N.D.'s ability or otherwise known as power (not CP or MP) is to bypass hax since you know he was created for that specific purpose. This is his ability (a hax to counter hax is hax lol) and no one elses so it had nothing to do with actual MP or CP otherwise it would've been explicitly stated such. E.N.D.'s "power" scales to no one and it has squat to do with MP or CP.

 

[LaGOAT]

Let me summarize what @WoWfan is saying. If Acno, the strongest in the verse, couldn't overcome Zeref's immortality through sheer power then by your logic Acno is not stronger than the Gods bcs he can't just overpower the curse of Ankhseram with sheer magic power alone. But we've already seen that's not the case as hax has worked numerous times on people several tiers above the user. E.N.D.'s ability or otherwise known as power (not CP or MP) is to bypass hax since you know he was created for that specific purpose. This is his ability (a hax to counter hax is hax lol) and no one elses so it had nothing to do with actual MP or CP otherwise it would've been explicitly stated such. E.N.D.'s "power" scales to no one and it has squat to do with MP or CP.

I understand that. But Ankhseram wasn’t introduce as a person that had feats he just curses ppl. So how is he stronger than acno? I mean by that logic is Marco was cursed would that mean Marco>acno? 2. There is no evidence that END would have killed zeref becuae he bypassed dimaria TS Dimaria gods power =/= Zeref gods power it just means that END>chronos power. 3. I could argue that IGnatsu(a power of a dragon) could have killed zeref if happy didn’t stop him. 4.gray can counter END I guess he hax because of the same logic. Erza causally stop END and gray attack. Which means she is hax too By that logic.

@WoWfan so? Natsu is till STRONGER than both of them that is my point and he prove that by not killing them. Are u telling me that natsu beating FH zeref doesn’t prove that natsu isn’t stronger than him? Acno and Ingeel aka dragons are the strongest in their verse therefore dragons are the strongest in the verse.

 

[WoWfan]

Not for lack of trying, he said he could not afford to hold back, that proves that Spriggans can survive deathly attacks, even Zeref stated this. It is proof that even beating FH Zeref does not make him stronger than Ankhseram since Zeref still lives after that. Dragons are not the strongest at all as humans can beat them at this point, even see human spears with DS magic kill and hinder dragons

 

[Jko]

I understand that. But Ankhseram wasn’t introduce as a person that had feats he just curses ppl. So how is he stronger than acno? I mean by that logic is Marco was cursed would that mean Marco>acno? 2. There is no evidence that END would have killed zeref becuae he bypassed dimaria TS Dimaria gods power =/= Zeref gods power it just means that END>chronos power. 3. I could argue that IGnatsu(a power of a dragon) could have killed zeref if happy didn’t stop him. 4.gray can counter END I guess he hax because of the same logic. Erza causally stop END and gray attack. Which means she is hax too By that logic.

@WoWfan so? Natsu is till STRONGER than both of them that is my point and he prove that by not killing them. Are u telling me that natsu beating FH zeref doesn’t prove that natsu isn’t stronger than him? Acno and Ingeel aka dragons are the strongest in their verse therefore dragons are the strongest in the verse.

No, what we are saying is that since Ankhseram immortality hax couldn't be bypass by Acno's power therefore Ankhseram would be stronger since it's his curse (hax) that couldn't be bypass. That is only true if we go by your guy's hypothesis that hax is overpowered by just being stronger.

E.N.D. was made to bypass the hax of Ankhseram so his ability should be the ability to overcome hax in general as he needed to bypass God tier level hax. Yes you could argue that, but by your guy's logic that strength can beat hax then that would mean IgNatsu is stronger than Acno because he could kill Zeref while Acno couldn't. Gray could only countered partial E.N.D. bcs DeS and his hax let's him get an advantage over Demons. Tho we know Gray is not anywhere near Acno's level. Btw who is Marco?

We aren't saying Partial E.N.D. or IgNatsu is stronger than even the top 2 S12 let alone Acnologia, we are saying that if we go by your guy's logic that power level alone can break out of hax then that would mean IgNatsu and Partial E.N.D are stronger than Acno since they could break the curse and Acno couldn't. But again we know that isn't true at all. Thus the hypothesis of hax being countered by power level would be contradicted and therefore false.

 

[LaGOAT]

Not for lack of trying, he said he could not afford to hold back, that proves that Spriggans can survive deathly attacks, even Zeref stated this. It is proof that even beating FH Zeref does not make him stronger than Ankhseram since Zeref still lives after that. Dragons are not the strongest at all as humans can beat them at this point, even see human spears with DS magic kill and hinder dragons

So because natsu didn’t kill none of the spriggans He weaker?? How does that make sense? Zeref stayed that END cant kill/beat him. Natsu bEAT FH zeref IDK y it’s hard for u to understand I mean do u want me to show the chapter. Which human? no human can beat the top tier dragons. Human spears? Where r u getting this from?

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 6, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 6, 2018 ---

No, what we are saying is that since Ankhseram immortality hax couldn't be bypass by Acno's power therefore Ankhseram would be stronger since it's his curse (hax) that couldn't be bypass. That is only true if we go by your guy's hypothesis that hax is overpowered by just being stronger.

E.N.D. was made to bypass the hax of Ankhseram so his ability should be the ability to overcome hax in general as he needed to bypass God tier level hax. Yes you could argue that, but by your guy's logic that strength can beat hax then that would mean IgNatsu is stronger than Acno because he could kill Zeref while Acno couldn't. Gray could only countered partial E.N.D. bcs DeS and his hax let's him get an advantage over Demons. Tho we know Gray is not anywhere near Acno's level. Btw who is Marco?

We aren't saying Partial E.N.D. or IgNatsu is stronger than even the top 2 S12 let alone Acnologia, we are saying that if we go by your guy's logic that power level alone can break out of hax then that would mean IgNatsu and Partial E.N.D are stronger than Acno since they could break the curse and Acno couldn't. But again we know that isn't true at all. Thus the hypothesis of hax being countered by power level would be contradicted and therefore false.

We don’t know that END didn’t fight zeref that’s left up to air to believe. go by what happen in the manga

 

[WoWfan]

Sigh, you don’t get it do you? Natsu is not weak, Spriggans are just that tough, Zeref has no proof that Natsu as END can’t kill him because END has The ability to bypass his immortality. Beating Zeref is not the same as killing him, if that power cannot kill Zeref then strength is absolutely meaningless against killing immortals. Don’t make me show you the chapter. Sigh, this just shows that you have not read the chapter, sad

 

[LaGOAT]

Sigh, you don’t get it do you? Natsu is not weak, Spriggans are just that tough, Zeref has no proof that Natsu as END can’t kill him because END has The ability to bypass his immortality. Beating Zeref is not the same as killing him, if that power cannot kill Zeref then strength is absolutely meaningless against killing immortals. Don’t make me show you the chapter. Sigh, this just shows that you have not read the chapter, sad

Reread my post Did I say natsu was weak? Nah I think u can’t don’t get it. I’m saying natsu is stronger than the spriggans and he doesnt have to kill them to prove that he is superior to them. Now END didn't kill dimaria but we know that end>dimaria right? Just like I have no proof that end can’t kill zeref(if tho I show u) u have no proof either. End bypass chrono doesn’t mean he can by bypass zeref immortality. R u saying that chrono power=akherham power? Personally I told u that killing doesn’t have to prove who stronger natsu beat serval villains in the manga without killing them Natsu beat FH zeref without killing him I mean what else can I say? We clearly saw that in the manga zeref coudlnt move. I mean if u don’t get what I’m saying than that’s on u this most likely is my last post

 

[WoWfan]

You’d aid he weaker, Spriggans are not a single person mind you. And that is where you are wrong, before the big battle, natsu said he will do everything he can to win, which includes murder because if he doesn’t win, FT loses, it ain’t like the past fights where he doesn’t have to murder. That only proves Dimaria is strong enough to survive attempted murder. The proof is in END’s powers which is to surpass god powers, that includes Zeref’s immortality. Again, power levels doesn’t matter with END since he simply surpasses God powers in general. Anne I told you, surviving attempted murder/killing blows is a sign of strength in this case. That is because before Alvarez he doesn’t have to murder, this time he has to do it in order to win. Yet Zeref did not die, that is because he is immortal, you are not proving a thing by saying that, that is the whole point of the discussion

 

[Axiomus]

END's power couldn't kill Dimaria, or Gray, or Erza. It's not killing Zeref, and it wouldn't even matter if Zeref wasn't immortal. END's power still wouldn't be able to kill Zeref. Zeref, especially with Fairy Heart, is simply too strong for its attacks. Zeref would simply beat Natsu in a fight if Natsu only had END's powers. There's not a single attack in END's arsenal that Zeref can't block or tank. This is without even considering Zeref's immortality. Zeref could tank everything END threw at him even if you took away his immortality curse. Simply put: If Zeref and END were fighting, and Ankhseram decided to take away Zeref's immortality, Zeref would still beat END to a pulp.

Even if I grant you that END's powers had some sort of special hax that could bypass Zeref's curse, Igneel's powers would have had the same hax. Zeref didn't just keel over and die when Natsu touched him with Igneel's powers. It still took a certain level of raw power for Igneel's powers to overcome Zeref's own power and beat him up. END doesn't have this level of power. Igneel's power was several magnitudes stronger than END's power. The difference in power was so great that Igneel could kill END with a single toe. Natsu's feats with Igneel's power against Zeref was better than any of his END feats.

 

[WoWfan]

END was not a full power at the time, even so, Dimaria just that tough, same with Gray plus his Devil slayer magic. And yes Zeref can be defeated by END because of it’s ability to bypass god powers. Even with FH, he just needs to amp up to Savage Flames with his emotions and then kill Zeref right there and then with END power as well. No, Immortality will not help because of END. Ankhseram would not be a part of this fight because he has no stake in this, no proof that Natsu as END can’t kill Zeref with Savage flames.

That is the whole point of what I am trying to say, even igneel’s Power has hax that could do the same thing by zeref’s Theory. There is no proof that END power can’t with it being Natsu as well. That gap was immediately debunked after the fight with FH Zeref. There is no proof as Natsu never went END before Alvarez

 

[LaGOAT]

No, what we are saying is that since Ankhseram immortality hax couldn't be bypass by Acno's power therefore Ankhseram would be stronger since it's his curse (hax) that couldn't be bypass. That is only true if we go by your guy's hypothesis that hax is overpowered by just being stronger.

E.N.D. was made to bypass the hax of Ankhseram so his ability should be the ability to overcome hax in general as he needed to bypass God tier level hax. Yes you could argue that, but by your guy's logic that strength can beat hax then that would mean IgNatsu is stronger than Acno because he could kill Zeref while Acno couldn't. Gray could only countered partial E.N.D. bcs DeS and his hax let's him get an advantage over Demons. Tho we know Gray is not anywhere near Acno's level. Btw who is Marco?

We aren't saying Partial E.N.D. or IgNatsu is stronger than even the top 2 S12 let alone Acnologia, we are saying that if we go by your guy's logic that power level alone can break out of hax then that would mean IgNatsu and Partial E.N.D are stronger than Acno since they could break the curse and Acno couldn't. But again we know that isn't true at all. Thus the hypothesis of hax being countered by power level would be contradicted and therefore false.

My fault I mean Macao. I’m talking about as a power level stand point I understand certain ablity can counter by hax but if ur going by yall logic then ur saying lacade>irene. Wendy>Erza etc. now i see as END doesn’t enough feats to prove that he could kill zeref. Slatmating gray n Erza casually stop both attacks that alone isn’t enough evidence. ignatsu shown better performance than END

 

[WoWfan]

Wendy is supposedly powerful enough to stand with the other Slayers against Acnologia. That was her potential since her battle since Irene.

Larcade’s magic can be countered by either never experiencing those three desires, pain, hax immunity or overpowered by a strong will force.

Gray has Devil Slayer magic and powered by Darkness which dispersés curse power. Both were weakened before Erza arrived to stop them. There was no proof that IgNatsu can kill Zeref by his assumption after a brief hypothesis. While END has more information and backing to say that it can kill Zeref

 

[LaGOAT]

@Nemispelled bruh laxus almost causally oneshotted ajeel. des gray attack got easily erased.yes I understand that gray wasnt going all out but i doubt he could casually oneshot ajeel

 

[WoWfan]

Not sure what you are saying here but Neither of them were going all out, and Gray got massive power boost since Invel fight.

 

[Axiomus]

END was not a full power at the time, even so, Dimaria just that tough, same with Gray plus his Devil slayer magic. And yes Zeref can be defeated by END because of it’s ability to bypass god powers. Even with FH, he just needs to amp up to Savage Flames with his emotions and then kill Zeref right there and then with END power as well. No, Immortality will not help because of END. Ankhseram would not be a part of this fight because he has no stake in this, no proof that Natsu as END can’t kill Zeref with Savage flames.

That is the whole point of what I am trying to say, even igneel’s Power has hax that could do the same thing by zeref’s Theory. There is no proof that END power can’t with it being Natsu as well. That gap was immediately debunked after the fight with FH Zeref. There is no proof as Natsu never went END before Alvarez

Then when was END ever at full power? 400 years ago? Igneel could have crushed him with one toe back then. The strongest END has ever been canonically was during his fight with Gray. That version of END wasn't strong enough to kill Dimaria or even seriously hurt Erza. Even if Gray had a devil slaying advantage, Erza and Dimaria certainly didn't. The only version of END that can beat Zeref is an imaginary one.

First of all, surpassing =/= bypassing. They are not interchangeable words. Their definitions are not similar. Secondly even if END can "bypass" a god's power, that does not mean he can beat Zeref. Zeref doesn't need to use Ankhseram's curse to beat END. Zeref doesn't need to be immortal to beat END. Zeref can beat END with his own magic, whether he is immortal or not. You can get rid of Zeref's curse entirely, and make it so that he's just a regular mortal: Zeref would still beat END in a fight. He's simply so much stronger.

Natsu literally cannot use savage flames as END. Savage flames is Natsu's power of feelings when he's thinking about his friends. END runs on Natsu's hate and dark emotions. When Erza told him to think about his friends, Natsu calmed down and his END powers dissipated. Moreover, Savage Flames is only necessary to beat Zeref is he has Fairy Heart. Zeref honestly doesn't need FH to beat Natsu.

 

[WoWfan]

Obviously not when he fought Gray or Dimaria. Yet prove he did go END back then, the demon seed did not appear until later in Alvarez arc. Wrong, Dimaria is just strong enough to not die, like most of the Spriggans by natsu’s hand. Erza was in good condition while Natsu and Gray were not. It is in this cases as this is END’s special power as proven multiple times already. It can with savage flames and END’s power which can kill immortal Zeref. Zeref can only beat END when he’s dead. Where does it say he cannot, because from where we stand, His curse is the same as his magic where his feelings gives him strength, just like his flames can still heat up. Dissipated but not gone instantly. With SF and END he can both beat and kill Zeref

 

[Axiomus]

Obviously not when he fought Gray or Dimaria. Yet prove he did go END back then, the demon seed did not appear until later in Alvarez arc. Wrong, Dimaria is just strong enough to not die, like most of the Spriggans by natsu’s hand. Erza was in good condition while Natsu and Gray were not. It is in this cases as this is END’s special power as proven multiple times already. It can with savage flames and END’s power which can kill immortal Zeref. Zeref can only beat END when he’s dead. Where does it say he cannot, because from where we stand, His curse is the same as his magic where his feelings gives him strength, just like his flames can still heat up. Dissipated but not gone instantly. With SF and END he can both beat and kill Zeref

You're avoiding the question: When did END ever show his "full power"? If END's powers never showed up 400 years ago, then the only time END ever showed up would have been during the Alvarez Arc. In which case its powers maxed out during his fight with Gray, because after that fight it started fusing with the dragon seed. At that point, forget about being stronger than anyone. It put Natsu in a coma, and made him less than useless in a fight. It made Natsu so cold that Lucy had to warm him up with her body heat. The only version of END that can beat Zeref is an imaginary one. You can't actually read the manga, point to a panel, and say "this is the attack that will probably take out Zeref".

Zeref is stronger than Dimaria. You know who is strong enough to casually kill a Spriggan? Zeref. Larcade is a full demon, the second most powerful after END. He's also stronger than most Spriggans. Zeref oneshotted him, and then mercy killed him. This attack right here is better than any of END's feats.

Spoiler: Zeref oneshotting Larcade

Erza literally tells Natsu and Gray to think back to their memories of being friends. As soon as Natsu did that, END's power dissipated. Savage flames is Natsu literally thinking about his friends to the max. Natsu even gave a speech about how his head was in the wrong when he was END, and that the power of the guild was his strongest power.

Spoiler: Natsu's greatest power

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