Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[WoWfan]

Wendy like most (all) dragon slayers could not do anything to Acno, it was till Natsu with seven flames and Fairy Sphere to stop him is what led to their victory. So no, Gildarts > Wendy. Gray has Devil Slayer and Dark marks which are weakness to demons including END (he is lucky it is incomplete end)

 

[LaGOAT]

Wendy like most (all) dragon slayers could not do anything to Acno, it was till Natsu with seven flames and Fairy Sphere to stop him is what led to their victory. So no, Gildarts > Wendy. Gray has Devil Slayer and Dark marks which are weakness to demons including END (he is lucky it is incomplete end)

Till tanked acno attacks which are above continent lvl according to u same with cobra while gildartz lost his leg and arm. Wendy magic work on Irene. Wendy and cobra by ur logic.>gildartz. Yep end is lucky gray wasnt full power Full power Gray>silver(cause he has DS also)>full powerend>zeref again based on ur logic

 

[MangerDan]

If the seeds are fusing, Natsu is dying. It wouldn't matter if he was human, dragon, or demon. So long as the seeds are attempting to fuse, Natsu would be dying. If Natsu left the seeds alone, they would fuse and kill him. If Natsu broke the demon seed, he would become a dragon. The only way for END Natsu to become a real thing was if Natsu chose to become a demon and destroy his dragon seed. This would have been the worst choice to make because he would went into a blind rage, and lose out on any chance of dealing with Acnologia. As a dragon, he would have defeated Zeref just as easily as he did as a human and still be better equipped to deal with Acnologia. But Natsu passed on the power of a dragon so he could live comfortably as a human, because it was what Igneel wanted. As a demon, Natsu would certainly get slapped around by Acnologia. He also has no real way of dealing against Fairy Heart, because once again END cannot use flames of savage emotions.

Where do the flames of emotion come from anyways if END can’t use them? They seem to be a separate thing from Natsu’s dragon slaying magic as well.

 

[Axiomus]

Where do the flames of emotion come from anyways if END can’t use them? They seem to be a separate thing from Natsu’s dragon slaying magic as well.

Spoiler: Natsu's explanation for his greatest power

Flames of savage emotions is basically just the name Zeref gave to Natsu's power of feelings. Natsu realized that Erza's words was basically a reflection of Makarov's feelings towards the guild, that being that he loves them from the bottom of his heart. This feeling was what is going to give Natsu his greatest power. Visually speaking, Natsu's guild mark will start glowing when he uses it. Technically nothing is stopping Natsu from using other magic attacks when he's amped up on this, but dragon slaying magic is pretty much the only magic Natsu knows. Natsu used a fire dragon king's demolition fist with these flames, and another unnamed punch after that. END's power is incompatible with this power because it requires Natsu to be in a completely different mindset. In Erza's full speech that she gave in chapter 507, there's even a part where Makarov/Erza tells them that they must not use anger or hatred to fight. Fairy Tail's theme has always just been love is the greatest power.

 

[WoWfan]

There is no explanation, it is just raw emotions he has for his friends, just like how he has raw emotions for his dead friends, because he has curse power and thus can achieve that savage flames because it is not a real technique

Where do the flames of emotion come from anyways if END can’t use them? They seem to be a separate thing from Natsu’s dragon slaying magic as well.

Natsu’s flames become more intense the more emotional he gets, while there is a power called power of feelings that all wizards can use, it is mostly positive emotions, while those with curses utilize negative emotions for strength, like END can use.

 

[Axiomus]

There is no explanation, it is just raw emotions he has for his friends, just like how he has raw emotions for his dead friends, because he has curse power and thus can achieve that savage flames because it is not a real technique

The explanation was right there. Natsu remembered Erza's speech, which is actually a reflection of Makarov's voice. This was the full speech:

Spoiler: Makarov/Erza's speech

This speech was what inspired Natsu to realize what his strongest power was. When Natsu remembers the speech, he specifically focuses on the part where they say love them from the bottom of their heart. This is referring to the fact that Makarov loves the guild. Which is why Natsu says the guild is what will give them their final, strongest power. Fairy Tail does not have a complicated plot. It has like 1 big theme, and that is love is the strongest power. Hiro Mashima is literally shoving in our faces that the love that Natsu has for his guild is the strongest power he has.

Everything about the emotions necessary to invoke flames of savage emotions is basically the polar opposite of what END's power feeds off of. END's power literally dissipates when Natsu starts to think about his friendship with Gray and Erza. There is even a part of that speech where Makarov/Erza tells them to not to use anger or hatred to fight because he loves them from the bottom of the fight. There is even a part of that speech where Makarov/Erza tells them not to use anger or hatred to fight.

 

[WoWfan]

Again, speech has nothing to do with it, unless it is a incantation for a spell you are not proving a point as it is just emotions, nothing more, nothing less. As END, his emotions of hatred are the strongest as he has curses since hatred is savage as well. You still have to prove that his hate will dissipate when Gray and Erza are not present when fighting Zeref

 

[Axiomus]

Again, speech has nothing to do with it, unless it is a incantation for a spell you are not proving a point as it is just emotions, nothing more, nothing less. As END, his emotions of hatred are the strongest as he has curses since hatred is savage as well. You still have to prove that his hate will dissipate when Gray and Erza are not present when fighting Zeref

The speech literally has everything to do with it. It was the speech that reminded Natsu that his feelings for the guild is what will give him his greatest strength. You pretty much have to ignore everything Natsu is saying in his speech, everything Erza/Makarov is saying his their speech, and the theme of entire Zeref story arc to think END is capable of using flames of savage emotions like Natsu did. Natsu's negative emotions will never be as strong as his love for the guild. Quite frankly, I don't know how anyone can read Fairy Tail and somehow miss this fact. Zeref's negative emotions, which are a lot stronger than Natsu's negative emotions, weren't even as strong as Natsu's love for the guild. That's why Natsu was stronger. That's why Natsu amped love for the guild can beat Zeref with the infinite power of Fairy Heart, but Natsu amped up on the rage over Lucy's death can't even get past Gray or Erza.

Spoiler: Natsu's explanation for his greatest power

Spoiler: Natsu say's right here that the power of the guild will fuel his flames

Natsu doesn't need to be in Erza or Gray's presence to calm down either. Lucy showing up like 30 seconds afterwards would have definitely calmed him down. Honestly if Gray wasn't upset over Juvia's death, he probably would have been able to snap Natsu out of it too.

 

[WoWfan]

Yet is not considered a technique or anything, just emotions changing, nothing would show he would just lose his hate if Erza or Gray were not there. END would be much more powerful if his transformation would be completed, this is with his curse power, which makes it much more effective than when he uses magic which is not that strong with hatred. No proof he would calm down if Lucy showed up later, he didn’t calm down for Gray. It is only emotions, not appearances. Power of guild =/= different power up from PoF

 

[Axiomus]

Yet is not considered a technique or anything, just emotions changing, nothing would show he would just lose his hate if Erza or Gray were not there. END would be much more powerful if his transformation would be completed, this is with his curse power, which makes it much more effective than when he uses magic which is not that strong with hatred. No proof he would calm down if Lucy showed up later, he didn’t calm down for Gray. It is only emotions, not appearances. Power of guild =/= different power up from PoF

The whole reason for Natsu's anger and hatred was because he thought Lucy was dead. It's just common sense that finding out Lucy was alive would dissolve that anger. Natsu didn't calm down because Erza and Gray were physically there. He calmed down because Erza told him to remember their friendship as children and gave a nakama speech. Literally anyone can do that. Gray didn't manage to calm down Natsu was because he was picking a fight. If Gray wasn't upset over Juvia's death, he could have said everything Erza did.

There's no proof Natsu's negative emotions can make END's curse power as strong as Natsu's own magic power. It is a canon fact that love is the strongest power. Power from the guild = Power of Natsu's feelings towards the guild =/= Natsu's negative emotions over Lucy's fake-death. Natsu's feelings of love for the guild is stronger than Natsu's negative emotions over Lucy's fake-death. It's really as simple as that.

Plus, I've already explained that END's completed transformation would have just resulted in Natsu's death when the seeds finished merging. Natsu would have to willingly go into his heart and choose to become a demon in order for your version of END to exist. That entire scenario is a fanfiction. Imaginary. Even as a hypothetical scenario, it's not even the most likely choice for Natsu even if he were willing to sacrifice his humanity. He would be way more powerful as a dragon. Plus he can keep his sanity and be able to revert to a human form if he wanted to.

 

[WoWfan]

Lucy would not make it in time though if the situation was different we’re Natsu finds Zeref and kills him, and then he dies as well. Yes it would as Anger is not strong with magic, it is with curses, that is the reason for their existence. It is as simple as that. No, you did not, you said END’s completed form is how he would be alive as the dragon seed would seize to exist. Soo contradicting yourself. It is that simple, as a demon, dragon or human he will not die. As an indecisive human he dies

 

[Axiomus]

Lucy would not make it in time though if the situation was different we’re Natsu finds Zeref and kills him, and then he dies as well. Yes it would as Anger is not strong with magic, it is with curses, that is the reason for their existence. It is as simple as that. No, you did not, you said END’s completed form is how he would be alive as the dragon seed would seize to exist. Soo contradicting yourself. It is that simple, as a demon he will not die. As an indecisive human he dies

If END-Natsu found Zeref instead of Gray, Zeref would have beaten Natsu. END would only have been as strong as he was against Gray. Natsu was at maximum anger when Lucy died. He wasn't stronger than Erza. Zeref > Erza. Natsu with maximum love towards the guild was stronger than Zeref, so Natsu's own powers > END's power. Natsu's love for his guild is canonically stronger than his hatred and anger.

@bold I never said that at all. Please do not put words in my mouth. I said the only way for Natsu to become a full demon is if he goes into his heart and chooses to be a demon. Bottom line is if Natsu hadn't gone into his heart to destroy at least one of the seeds, then the two seeds would have fused and Natsu would have died. Natsu wouldn't have been able to become a full demon if he left things alone. Just because he grew demon hands doesn't mean the seeds inside him have stopped trying to fuse. The only way for Natsu to become a full demon was to go into his heart and choose to become a demon by destroying the dragon seed. If he doesn't do that, the seeds will fuse, and Natsu will die. There are 4 possible scenarios for Natsu:

1. Natsu does nothing. The demon and dragon seeds fuse. Natsu dies.
2. Natsu goes into his heart, and chooses to become a dragon. The demon seed is destroyed.
3. Natsu goes into his heart, and chooses to become a demon. The dragon seed is destroyed.
4. Natsu goes into his heart, and chooses to remain human. Both seeds are destroyed. This happened in canon.

3 of these scenarios are fanfiction. Between the imaginary scenarios of choosing to be a demon or dragon, Natsu has more advantages as a dragon. If Erza wasn't able to stop the fight and Natsu wasn't able to go into a coma to visit his own heart, scenario 1 would have happened. Growing demon arms does absolutely nothing to change the fact that Natsu's seeds were trying to fuse together, and therefore doesn't change the fact Natsu was dying.

 

[WoWfan]

That would not be the case if END was in his final form. Not his incomplete form against Gray. Again, END was not in his full form yet as he was still changing so his power was not maximum. What you said literally makes no difference from what I said as he goes full demon, his life is saved either then or now, you cannot prove his seeds were fusing while he was a demon because in your logic becoming a demon means he was saved. The first scenario contradicts what you said about Natsu doing nothing as he was becoming a demon and thus would destroy the dragon seed, doing nothing would mean he would still be unconscious as a human and then die. Growing more and more demon feats does change the fact that his seeds were not fusing but being chosen as a demon and not a dragon, that is another of your contradictions

 

[Axiomus]

That would not be the case if END was in his final form. Not his incomplete form against Gray. Again, END was not in his full form yet as he was still changing so his power was not maximum. What you said literally makes no difference from what I said as he goes full demon, his life is saved either then or now, you cannot prove his seeds were fusing while he was a demon because in your logic becoming a demon means he was saved. The first scenario contradicts what you said about Natsu doing nothing as he was becoming a demon and thus would destroy the dragon seed, doing nothing would mean he would still be unconscious as a human and then die

This "form form" is a fanfiction. The only canon version of END is the one that fought Gray, and that version would have lost to Zeref. Can we at least agree on this before speculating on how strong END could have been in our imaginations?

I am saying Natsu cannot go full demon without going into his heart and choosing to become a demon by destroying his dragon seed. He would die if he doesn't go into his heart and destroying at least one of the seeds. If Erza hadn't stopped the fight and Natsu hadn't fallen into a coma where he could visit his heart, Natsu would die.

As you said, Natsu wasn't fully demon when he fought Gray. He was still mostly human. Just because Natsu grew demon arms doesn't mean that his seeds have stopped trying to fuse. The seeds have been trying to fuse ever since the demon seed first started growing. Natsu cannot become a full demon unless he goes into his heart and gets rid of the dragon seed.

 

[WoWfan]

Not true as you said becoming a demon would be his final form, as we have seen he was in the process of becoming a demon, those choosing to be a demon thus letting the dragon seed be destroyed. And since he was still changing into a demon would mean he is choosing to be a demon when he becomes a full demon. As I said, growing demon arms proves he is still turning into a demon, and when he is done, the dragon seed is destroyed.

 

[Axiomus]

Not true as you said becoming a demon would be his final form, as we have seen he was in the process of becoming a demon, those choosing to be a demon thus letting the dragon seed be destroyed. And since he was still changing into a demon would mean he is choosing to be a demon when he becomes a full demon. As I said, growing demon arms proves he is still turning into a demon, and when he is done, the dragon seed is destroyed.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said becoming a demon would be Natsu's final form. I specifically stated that I don't believe END's final form would be anything other than Natsu's corpse. The only way we will ever see END's full form in a living Natsu is if he chooses in his heart to become a demon. This is the only way to destroy the dragon seed. The dragon seed will prevent Natsu from becoming a full demon. The dragon seed wasn't being destroyed just because Natsu was growing demon arms either. Natsu never chose to be a demon, and even when he was using END's power he was still mostly human.

 

[WoWfan]

Yet you said that becoming a demon would mean he lives as a demon and the dragon seed would be destroyed, there is no one or the other, either he is a demon (destroys dragon seed) or not (let the seeds fuse), yet the seed will be destroyed when he becomes a demon, think about it, if he becomes a demon, the dragon seed will not have anything to fuse with. He wasn’t going to be human long.

 

[Axiomus]

Yet you said that becoming a demon would mean he lives as a demon and the dragon seed would be destroyed, there is no one or the other, either he is a demon (destroys dragon seed) or not (let the seeds fuse), yet the seed will be destroyed when he becomes a demon

No. There are at least 4 scenarios.

1. Natsu does nothing about his seeds, they fuse and kill him.
2. Natsu goes into his heart and chooses to be a dragon, breaking demon seed
3. Natsu goes into his heart and chooses to be a demon, breaking the dragon seed
4. Natsu goes into his heart and chooses to remain human, breaking both seeds

As Igneel said, the way to choose one of the seeds was to strengthen his resolve to be one of the options. Natsu on his own volition has never made the decision to be a demon. Therefore, the dragon seed will not break and Natsu wont ever become a full demon.

Spoiler: Igneel on how to choose one of the seeds

 

[Nemispelled]

@Nemispelled bruh laxus almost causally oneshotted ajeel. des gray attack got easily erased.yes I understand that gray wasnt going all out but i doubt he could casually oneshot ajeel

I don't think that Ajeel is a good comparison of Laxus and Gray's powers. They each had different motives behind their attacks.

Laxus summoned a lighting bolt from the sky, and directed it straight towards Ajeel. That was meant to be a lethal attack, so yes, I would agree that Laxus would have oneshotted Ajeel with that lightning bolt (it still wouldn't be impressive because Ajeel is a low-tier Spriggan imo)

Gray, on the other hand, was trying to stop Ajeel's Sand Monster from catching up with the vehicle. To do that, he froze a large part of the land and encased everything in ice. Ajeel just happened to be caught in that ice because he was standing on top of the Sand Monster.

In other words, Gray wasn't necessarily aiming for Ajeel alone. He was trying to stop the Sand Monster from crushing the vehicle that everybody was in.

This is different from Laxus, who was putting all his power into killing a single target.



Besides, just because Ajeel tanked a casual punch from Natsu doesn't mean that Laxus > Natsu. You'd have to compare their full power to determine who would win in a fight.

Comparing Gray and Laxus' best fights against the Spriggans, I would say that they are relatively on the same level.

 

[WoWfan]

@Axi, There is four yes, that is what I was saying:

1. Natsu does nothing and dies as a unconscious, indecisive human.
2. Natsu becomes a demon and destroys dragon seed
3. Natsu becomes a dragon and destroys demon seed
4. Natsu stays human and destroys both seeds.

One seed cannot fuse with the other when Natsu is one or the other. That is simple, as a demon (it matters not), the dragon seed would be destroyed as it cannot fuse. That is why he was transforming into a full demon.