Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[sharkai]

because she Put herself or natsu level and thinks that natsu is probably stronger at phantom lord arc.

sorry for the late response

that is called being humble man, laxus just said he has no strength, are gonna put him on levy tier now? besides erza knows natsu is the main the character nothing else, her feats were tiers above natus before the first time skip

makrov didn’t fall asleep that’s the point. Irrelevant she cant overcome his sleeping magic point blank simple. Laxus never seen mystogan magic either prior to FF arc .

hax? not enough information to judge a character power from it
laxus knew everything about mystogan, including his identity. mystogan always put everyone to sleep whenever he came, you think laxus wouldn't try to protect himself, especially with freed like friend.

Wrecked? She was a okay with just some bruises just like every1 plus it was said the tree was “protecting” her and got a boost from Wendy.
that

in that fight she actually gave up. the first blast knownked her completely out
the next one, she was about to give up, fairy tail characters started showing up.

erza was shock that Laxus was that powerful. Simple logic 101 Laxus>above me because he perform better than me
gmg sting didn’t do such thing and I doubt it he could even Laxus laugh him off asking if he was serious.

check which panel she said it. right after he seems to have tanked that 25 formula spell. he fell on his knees right after that. lucy clearifies why.

Mira said Jura>erza and herself. Erza and mira>>>kagura and Minerva


ya I know Laxus would have no diff her at the maximum low diff


Statement was for both beating laxus and protecting the orb nice try.

idc about that cuz that’s irrelevant to me

nope.
mira is also super humble, and she knows nothing of erza.
hype wise
Minerva= kagura=erza
after erza won, her opponents shouldn't lose their hype. erza just goes up. exactly how people do with jura and laxus fight

that event seems to imply sting will win that was the mood.

why would erza want to beat laxus? she just wants the orb nothing else, even sneaking to get it is ok

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 12, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 12, 2019 ---

There's no circular reasoning here. This is the power that Wall can generate with a basic punch. Invel has no attack on this level, so it's entirely accurate to say that Wall has better attack power than Invel. Note that I didn't say that Wall is stronger than Invel overall. They have the same amount of magic power, but having the same amount of magic power doesn't mean that their attacks on the same level.

Spoiler: Wall's regular punch

Using your logic Neinhart can hit as hard as etherion just because Neinhart is a Spriggan as well, and his magical blasts are technically his best attack. Also, Neinhart was enchanted by Irene to have magic power beyond that of a regular Spriggan, so his winds should technically be stronger than Invel's attacks and Wall's etherion. It's absurd. Also, Neinhart can create historia to defend him. The historia can use defensive magic. According to you, since the historia is Neinhart's magic and Neinhart is a Spriggan, a historia defending Neinhart should be able to ward off Invel's strongest attack. There is no such thing as a distinction between "direct" and "indirect" magic. That's quite literally a definition that you just made up.

I know Laxus is stronger than Natsu with END's power because Laxus can kill a Spriggan with one good hit, and Natsu with END's power cannot. Laxus would have killed Ajeel had August not protected him, and he did kill Wall with the first hit that Wall wasn't immune to. Natsu didn't kill Dimaria despite being enraged.

Gajeel was stronger than Aria because the guild master of the Phantom Lord, who was stronger than both, outright stated that he was the strongest man of their guild. Aria beating up Natsu means very little because Natsu was simply stronger when he fought Gajeel. Erza told Natsu that he had a dormant power inside him, and that he should release it to fight Gajeel. He did that. Then when he fought Gajeel, Happy noted that Natsu was stronger than he had ever seen him before. Happy saw Natsu fight Aria, so that right there proves that Natsu was stronger fighting Gajeel than Aria. Erza then noted that Natsu was at least as strong as her or stronger. The difference between Natsu and Laxus is so large that Laxus can stomp both him and Gajeel. The difference between Natsu and Erza isn't anywhere near that large because herself outright considers Natsu on her level or stronger. You simply don't say that if you think you can solo Natsu and Gjaeel.

• Laxus beats Jura, Mirajane considers Jura stronger than herself and Erza combined. Also, the Orga guild card came out after the GMG arc. Minerva was definitely introduced by then, so Jura oneshotting Orga just proves how much stronger Jura is than Minerva.
• Laxus was in better shape after fighting Jura was than Erza was after fighting Minerva and Kagura. Laxus was good enough shape to brawl with Zirconis the whole time, while Erza collapsed fighting Motherglare's babies.
• Laxus beats Natsu and Gajeel, and Erza considers Natsu just as strong as herself
• Laxus' magical power when given to Natsu was stated to comparable to when Natsu ate etherion, and what Natsu could pull off with LFD against Hades was better than the combined efforts of the entire team.
• Jellal straight up soloed Oracion Seis during the Tartaros arc. Laxus is on his level. Pre-timeskip Erza would have been taken out by a combination of Cobra and Racer.

Laxus would have indeed killed Ajeel if not for August, but this doesn't actually matter. Laxus doesn't have to be able to solo 4 Spriggans in order to prove that the power gap between him and a Spriggan is larger than the power gap between Hades and Wendy. The difference in power between Wendy and Hades isn't equal to the power of 3 entire Spriggans to begin with. Let's say Hade's power is a 10 and Wendy's power is a 2. That would make a Spriggan's power somewhere around 40 (God Serena can solo 4 mages of Hade's level). Laxus can defeat a Spriggan and then defeat Hades, which would make him at least 50. Obviously, the difference between 50 and 40 is larger than the difference between 10 and 2. Laxus can beat Hades after beating Wall. This fact alone proves that the power difference between Laxus and a Spriggan is larger than that of Hades and Wendy. After using up the power to beat Wall, Laxus still had more power than all of Hades. How can that possibly be less than the difference between Hades and Wendy?

sorry for the late response, my responses tends to go really big, so I need to invest a lot of time. makes me uncomfortable.

I am comparing strongest moves. springgan to a spriggan.
another example
gmg
jura mt fugi most likely will cancel out jellal sema
as for historia, remember me talking about historia wahl, in that way, yes they should be equal. then you brought up the living magic thing soooo.

wahl punch thew laxus far away, that while looking impressive is not measure of power. note how laxus didn't blow kaira out side the church.

I know Laxus is stronger than Natsu with END's power because Laxus can kill a Spriggan with one good hit, and Natsu with END's power cannot. Laxus would have killed Ajeel had August not protected him, and he did kill Wall with the first hit that Wall wasn't immune to. Natsu didn't kill Dimaria despite being enraged.

so basis of your entire power levels based on hypes. that is my problem, you people require no solid foundation, and you happily built castles on top air.
he killed wahl with pof. and of course there is also a possibility of wahl being wuper weakto red lightening (judging by no statement about capacity overload and stating that the lightening wasnt recognizable.
but of course to a laxus fan their is not a remote possibility of something that doesnt hype laxus even further.
if laxus can kill ajeel with a causal move than he can kill erza with a causal move as well as mire. assigning different durability is impossible, because we normally dont have that much information.
or do you think there is a chance that gmg kagura had better durabilty that gmg jura

Gajeel was stronger than Aria because the guild master of the Phantom Lord, who was stronger than both, outright stated that he was the strongest man of their guild. Aria beating up Natsu means very little because Natsu was simply stronger when he fought Gajeel. Erza told Natsu that he had a dormant power inside him, and that he should release it to fight Gajeel. He did that. Then when he fought Gajeel, Happy noted that Natsu was stronger than he had ever seen him before. Happy saw Natsu fight Aria, so that right there proves that Natsu was stronger fighting Gajeel than Aria. Erza then noted that Natsu was at least as strong as her or stronger. The difference between Natsu and Laxus is so large that Laxus can stomp both him and Gajeel. The difference between Natsu and Erza isn't anywhere near that large because herself outright considers Natsu on her level or stronger. You simply don't say that if you think you can solo Natsu and Gjaeel.

so a mob bose praised the most aggressive character, wow.
so you are willing to over look actual feats, because of statements.

ok ok
lets go your way.
natsu has some hidden potential which he unlocked so he could still be a fodder (being above pre ts gajeel is still a fodder)
so how does it work
natsu and gray are rivals from the start. so they most likely are around each other
phantom arc happens
natsu loses to blinded aria
natsu unlocks his fodder dormant power
he is now jumps over blinded aria, full powered aria, and gajeel
sooo
you mean to tell me in the start of heavens arc, natsu was what two tiers above gray
or did gray also unlocked some power while he slept.

just to keep laxus hype you don't need to turn the entire fairy tail on its head.

The difference between Natsu and Erza isn't anywhere near that large because herself outright considers Natsu on her level or stronger. You simply don't say that if you think you can solo Natsu and Gjaeel.

never heard of a humble person have you?
erza who has repeatedly said she is weak. i am guessing you will put laxus on levy tier afterall laxus just said he has no strength.
erza feats shows she is far above him. just because she believes in natsu means nothing. if wrecked erza can one shot full powered aria then full powered erza can definity one shot gajeel and wreck natsu too. feats are feats, i am sorry.

first I like to compare your comparison with mine
MINE

1) Blind aria low diff natsu
Wrecked erza one shot full powered aria

2) OS arrival. No one knew their magic. Racer took out natsu, gray(with some angel help here) and three fodder.
Erza was taken out by racer, cobra, his snake, and hot eye in a sneak attack way.

3) gajeel who seems equal to natsu, was stalemated by pantherlily. The very next arc, azuma one shot pantherlily, wendy and mest.
Erza then took out azuma in his magic advantage field and with tenrou magic helping azuma

4) natsu was scared of erza. Erza knocked him out couple of time. No one thought natsu could beat erza

YOURS

• Laxus beats Jura, Mirajane considers Jura stronger than herself and Erza combined. Also, the Orga guild card came out after the GMG arc. Minerva was definitely introduced by then, so Jura oneshotting Orga just proves how much stronger Jura is than Minerva.
• Laxus was in better shape after fighting Jura was than Erza was after fighting Minerva and Kagura. Laxus was good enough shape to brawl with Zirconis the whole time, while Erza collapsed fighting Motherglare's babies.
• Laxus beats Natsu and Gajeel, and Erza considers Natsu just as strong as herself
• Laxus' magical power when given to Natsu was stated to comparable to when Natsu ate etherion, and what Natsu could pull off with LFD against Hades was better than the combined efforts of the entire team.
• Jellal straight up soloed Oracion Seis during the Tartaros arc. Laxus is on his level. Pre-timeskip Erza would have been taken out by a combination of Cobra and Racer.

notice I only compared pre ts. you required gmg also.
next I compare say character 'B' against natsu and then the same character 'B' against erza. once I compared character 'B' against natus and then character 'B' against another character 'C' and finally that character 'C' with erza. (erza, natsu, aria, or natsu racer, with erza cobra racer hoteye and last one natsu gajeel, gajeel pantherlily, then pantherlily against azuma finally azuma against erza)
what do you do, you give hype (not complete hype either) then you compare different fights having no relation with each other (laxus vs jura to erza vs Minerva and kagura). then things we have no information of, like do you know what would have happened if fresh erza had given all her powers to natsu against hades. no?
and finally you go all out compare a pre ts character with tartarus one (do you really think they are at all relevant power wise now, is bicsolow (from laxus group, cant spell) still near gray level?)

think, for one moment one moment unbias, arent my comparisons better than yours?
i can take praises, no problem

now lets look at your points.
when did minerva says she along with erza are weaker than jura. all i remember telling her team not to approach Jura and Kagura. forgot laxus apparently.
as far as i know cards and stats were in magical games edition or something which was like two chapter before minerva introduction. stats also did not include minerva because she wasnt in the team then.
all know when she did that god war spell jura was shocked someone this powerful was there. (but since this hype is not for laxus you will ignore it )

• Laxus was in better shape after fighting Jura was than Erza was after fighting Minerva and Kagura. Laxus was good enough shape to brawl with Zirconis the whole time, while Erza collapsed fighting Motherglare's babies.

This is very bad example. juvia was in better condition after fighting meridy compared to gildart after bluenote. what does that mean. even lucy was moving around (she fought people stronger than herself unlike gildarts) yet gildarts wasnt moving and lucy went on to fight hades.

• Laxus beats Natsu and Gajeel, and Erza considers Natsu just as strong as herself

wrecked erza one shot aria. even if gajeel is stronger than aria, i am not gonna put him on a tier above aria (especially since blinded aria was low diffing natsu). full powered erza should still be able to one shot gajeel. that still puts erza above laxus.
again humble character statement for the main character, have we never seen this before?

• Laxus' magical power when given to Natsu was stated to comparable to when Natsu ate etherion, and what Natsu could pull off with LFD against Hades was better than the combined efforts of the entire team.

not good example.
for comparison please provide me information what would have happed if fresh erza gave that power

Jellal straight up soloed Oracion Seis during the Tartaros arc. Laxus is on his level. Pre-timeskip Erza would have been taken out by a combination of Cobra and Racer.

horrifying example
old villians lose their relevance after their arc. add time skip and they are basically fodders
add on top jellal knew everything about them. it took three OS to put erza away with that snake and it was also a sneak attack. Tartartus jellal basically is above pre ts erza
looks sadly below Tartarus erza. One deman gate was enough to put raijinshu away, remember

Laxus would have indeed killed Ajeel if not for August, but this doesn't actually matter. Laxus doesn't have to be able to solo 4 Spriggans in order to prove that the power gap between him and a Spriggan is larger than the power gap between Hades and Wendy. The difference in power between Wendy and Hades isn't equal to the power of 3 entire Spriggans to begin with. Let's say Hade's power is a 10 and Wendy's power is a 2. That would make a Spriggan's power somewhere around 40 (God Serena can solo 4 mages of Hade's level). Laxus can defeat a Spriggan and then defeat Hades, which would make him at least 50. Obviously, the difference between 50 and 40 is larger than the difference between 10 and 2. Laxus can beat Hades after beating Wall. This fact alone proves that the power difference between Laxus and a Spriggan is larger than that of Hades and Wendy. After using up the power to beat Wall, Laxus still had more power than all of Hades. How can that possibly be less than the difference between Hades and Wendy?

seriously man
so someone who has 50power level can causally kill someone who has 40 power level?
but someone on 10 power level cant do to the same to someone on 2 power level

 

[Axiomus]

sorry for the late response, my responses tends to go really big, so I need to invest a lot of time. makes me uncomfortable.

I am comparing strongest moves. springgan to a spriggan.
another example
gmg
jura mt fugi most likely will cancel out jellal sema
as for historia, remember me talking about historia wahl, in that way, yes they should be equal. then you brought up the living magic thing soooo.

wahl punch thew laxus far away, that while looking impressive is not measure of power. note how laxus didn't blow kaira out side the church.

so basis of your entire power levels based on hypes. that is my problem, you people require no solid foundation, and you happily built castles on top air.
he killed wahl with pof. and of course there is also a possibility of wahl being wuper weakto red lightening (judging by no statement about capacity overload and stating that the lightening wasnt recognizable.
but of course to a laxus fan their is not a remote possibility of something that doesnt hype laxus even further.
if laxus can kill ajeel with a causal move than he can kill erza with a causal move as well as mire. assigning different durability is impossible, because we normally dont have that much information.
or do you think there is a chance that gmg kagura had better durabilty that gmg jura


so a mob bose praised the most aggressive character, wow.
so you are willing to over look actual feats, because of statements.

ok ok
lets go your way.
natsu has some hidden potential which he unlocked so he could still be a fodder (being above pre ts gajeel is still a fodder)
so how does it work
natsu and gray are rivals from the start. so they most likely are around each other
phantom arc happens
natsu loses to blinded aria
natsu unlocks his fodder dormant power
he is now jumps over blinded aria, full powered aria, and gajeel
sooo
you mean to tell me in the start of heavens arc, natsu was what two tiers above gray
or did gray also unlocked some power while he slept.

just to keep laxus hype you don't need to turn the entire fairy tail on its head.

never heard of a humble person have you?
erza who has repeatedly said she is weak. i am guessing you will put laxus on levy tier afterall laxus just said he has no strength.
erza feats shows she is far above him. just because she believes in natsu means nothing. if wrecked erza can one shot full powered aria then full powered erza can definity one shot gajeel and wreck natsu too. feats are feats, i am sorry.

first I like to compare your comparison with mine
MINE

YOURS

notice I only compared pre ts. you required gmg also.
next I compare say character 'B' against natsu and then the same character 'B' against erza. once I compared character 'B' against natus and then character 'B' against another character 'C' and finally that character 'C' with erza. (erza, natsu, aria, or natsu racer, with erza cobra racer hoteye and last one natsu gajeel, gajeel pantherlily, then pantherlily against azuma finally azuma against erza)
what do you do, you give hype (not complete hype either) then you compare different fights having no relation with each other (laxus vs jura to erza vs Minerva and kagura). then things we have no information of, like do you know what would have happened if fresh erza had given all her powers to natsu against hades. no?
and finally you go all out compare a pre ts character with tartarus one (do you really think they are at all relevant power wise now, is bicsolow (from laxus group, cant spell) still near gray level?)

think, for one moment one moment unbias, arent my comparisons better than yours?
i can take praises, no problem

now lets look at your points.
when did minerva says she along with erza are weaker than jura. all i remember telling her team not to approach Jura and Kagura. forgot laxus apparently.
as far as i know cards and stats were in magical games edition or something which was like two chapter before minerva introduction. stats also did not include minerva because she wasnt in the team then.
all know when she did that god war spell jura was shocked someone this powerful was there. (but since this hype is not for laxus you will ignore it )

This is very bad example. juvia was in better condition after fighting meridy compared to gildart after bluenote. what does that mean. even lucy was moving around (she fought people stronger than herself unlike gildarts) yet gildarts wasnt moving and lucy went on to fight hades.


wrecked erza one shot aria. even if gajeel is stronger than aria, i am not gonna put him on a tier above aria (especially since blinded aria was low diffing natsu). full powered erza should still be able to one shot gajeel. that still puts erza above laxus.
again humble character statement for the main character, have we never seen this before?



not good example.
for comparison please provide me information what would have happed if fresh erza gave that power


horrifying example
old villians lose their relevance after their arc. add time skip and they are basically fodders
add on top jellal knew everything about them. it took three OS to put erza away with that snake and it was also a sneak attack. Tartartus jellal basically is above pre ts erza
looks sadly below Tartarus erza. One deman gate was enough to put raijinshu away, remember

seriously man
so someone who has 50power level can causally kill someone who has 40 power level?
but someone on 10 power level cant do to the same to someone on 2 power level

1) There's no reason to believe that Invel's ice armour can cancel out Wall's etherion, or even Wall's regular punches. Just because they're both Spriggans and have similar amounts of magic power, doesn't mean their spells are equally powerful. Similarly, there's no reason to believe that Jura's mt fuji can cancel out Jellal's Sema either. The whole point about Neinhart is to point out how ridiculous it is to assume that all Spriggans are equal in every stat. I don't actually think Neinhart can defend against Invel's best attack (which would be his true ice armour) by creating a historia, but this is the consequence of your logic. Apparently you're rolling with it, so I don't know what to say. Btw, Neinhart actually has more magic power than either Wall or Invel after Irene enchanted him. Does that mean Neinhart's best attack is now stronger than Etherion lol?

2) There's no hype here. Laxus killed Wall with the first attack that he used that Wall wasn't immune to. Natsu with END's power cannot kill Dimaria, despite being bloodlusted. Laxus' attack power is greater than END's attack power. You can say that Laxus had power of emotions, but the same is true for Natsu. Natsu always has power of emotions, and his emotions were pretty strong when he thought Lucy died. Red lightning is different enough from regular lightning that Wall cannot transform it into power. We don't know if Wall is super weak to it, so I don't assume that he was.

3) Just because Laxus can kill Ajeel with a nuke doesn't mean he can kill Erza. Erza has better durability than Ajeel. Jury is still out on Mirajane, but I'm sure her durability is better than Ajeel's too. So none of this implies that Laxus can easily kill Erza. What it does imply is that Laxus has better attack power than Erza's nakagami armour and Jupiter canon.

4) The guildmaster of Phantom Lord, the guild to whom Gajeel and Aria both belonged to, considers Gajeel to be the strongest man in his guild. Jose himself is also far stronger than Aria, and he considers Gajeel stronger than the Element 4. Natsu did indeed awaken his power when he fought Gajeel. Erza considers that version of Natsu to be equal or stronger than herself. Gajeel wasn't a fodder during the Phantom Lord arc. Gajeel's durability is several times better than Aria's.

5) Natsu was always stronger than Gray. They were not close during the start of the series, and it was only during the Tartaros arc where Gray truly caught up to Natsu. When Fukuro absorbed a bit of Natsu's power. One roar was enough to overpower Gray's ice-make lance, and then it took a tremendous amount of effort and POF for Gray to freeze those flames. The roar was the only real attack Gray took during that fight, and it caused enough damage that Gray passed out and had to be carried out by Happy. Natsu went on to fight Jellal, and used even stronger attacks.

Spoiler: Gray vs Natsu's flames

Spoiler: Aftermath of that fight

Spoiler: Happy had to carry Gray out

Spoiler: Gray's condition

6) That goes far beyond humble. Saying Natsu is equal or stronger than herself simply isn't something Erza would say if she thought she could solo Natsu and Gajeel. Laxus saying that he is weak doesn't mean anything. They weren't talking about magic power or even physical strength. Laxus doesn't say that he thinks he's weaker than everyone else in the guild. Who knows what standard Laxus is comparing himself to when he says he is weak. Laxus might only consider people like Acnologia strong, and finds anyone weaker than that to be weak.

7) The 1st timeskip is basically irrelevant when talking about Laxus. Why? Because there has only been a 3 months for Laxus after he got back from Tenrou Island, and he didn't spend any time training. To put that in comparison, it's been 6 months since Lucy joined the guild to when Tenrou Island happened. Laxus during the GMG is basically the same Laxus from the beginning of the series. What has changed is that Jura has spent the past 7 years training, and has become the 5th strongest Wizard Saint during that time. He is at such a level where Mirajane considers him to be stronger than herself and Erza combined. Obviously Mirajane didn't know about Erza's second origin, but we're not considering second origin here.

8) The guild card with Orga's stats came out after the GMG arc. I'll say it 3 more times: After the GMG arc. After the GMG arc. After the GMG arc. This means it came out after all the showings that Minerva had during the GMG arc. There's simply no excuse to be made here. Orga is considered stronger than MInerva when all was said and done. Quite frankly it doesn't matter if Minerva didn't mention to be cautious of Laxus because she never saw Laxus fight, and Laxus ended up straight up beating Jura anyways.

9) Quite frankly, I'm not sure where you are going with the comparison between Juvia and Meredy and Gildarts and Bluenote. If anyone is comparable to Bluenote, it's Jura. Makarov considers him a match for Gildarts, and Mirajane considers him stronger than both herself and Erza. Kagura and Minerva would have been no stronger than Erza or Mirajane either, meaning Laxus beat an opponent that is stronger than Kagura and Minerva. Laxus was in a better condition after having beaten Jura than Erza was in after having beaten both Minerva and Kagura, and she wouldn't have beaten Minerva without second origin at all.

10) It doesn't matter if Erza wasn't fresh against Hades. Hades beat the entire team, and Laxus power made Natsu stronger than the entire team. Laxus' power was stated by Erza to be comparable to when Natsu etherion, and etherion made Natsu stronger than Jellal. Jellal completely outclassed Erza during the Tower of Heaven arc. Who says Hades couldn't casually kill Wendy? Hades would have killed Natsu if Laxus hadn't saved him. Needless to say, Natsu was stronger than Wendy. All of this doesn't change the fact that the difference between Laxus' power and Wall's power is larger than the difference between Hade's power and Wendy's power.

 

[danger29]

sorry for the late response

that is called being humble man, laxus just said he has no strength, are gonna put him on levy tier now? besides erza knows natsu is the main the character nothing else, her feats were tiers above natus before the first time skip

hax? not enough information to judge a character power from it
laxus knew everything about mystogan, including his identity. mystogan always put everyone to sleep whenever he came, you think laxus wouldn't try to protect himself, especially with freed like friend.

in that fight she actually gave up. the first blast knownked her completely out
the next one, she was about to give up, fairy tail characters started showing up.
check which panel she said it. right after he seems to have tanked that 25 formula spell. he fell on his knees right after that. lucy clearifies why.



nope.
mira is also super humble, and she knows nothing of erza.
hype wise
Minerva= kagura=erza
after erza won, her opponents shouldn't lose their hype. erza just goes up. exactly how people do with jura and laxus fight

that event seems to imply sting will win that was the mood.

why would erza want to beat laxus? she just wants the orb nothing else, even sneaking to get it is ok

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 12, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 12, 2019 ---

sorry for the late response, my responses tends to go really big, so I need to invest a lot of time. makes me uncomfortable.

I am comparing strongest moves. springgan to a spriggan.
another example
gmg
jura mt fugi most likely will cancel out jellal sema
as for historia, remember me talking about historia wahl, in that way, yes they should be equal. then you brought up the living magic thing soooo.

wahl punch thew laxus far away, that while looking impressive is not measure of power. note how laxus didn't blow kaira out side the church.

so basis of your entire power levels based on hypes. that is my problem, you people require no solid foundation, and you happily built castles on top air.
he killed wahl with pof. and of course there is also a possibility of wahl being wuper weakto red lightening (judging by no statement about capacity overload and stating that the lightening wasnt recognizable.
but of course to a laxus fan their is not a remote possibility of something that doesnt hype laxus even further.
if laxus can kill ajeel with a causal move than he can kill erza with a causal move as well as mire. assigning different durability is impossible, because we normally dont have that much information.
or do you think there is a chance that gmg kagura had better durabilty that gmg jura


so a mob bose praised the most aggressive character, wow.
so you are willing to over look actual feats, because of statements.

ok ok
lets go your way.
natsu has some hidden potential which he unlocked so he could still be a fodder (being above pre ts gajeel is still a fodder)
so how does it work
natsu and gray are rivals from the start. so they most likely are around each other
phantom arc happens
natsu loses to blinded aria
natsu unlocks his fodder dormant power
he is now jumps over blinded aria, full powered aria, and gajeel
sooo
you mean to tell me in the start of heavens arc, natsu was what two tiers above gray
or did gray also unlocked some power while he slept.

just to keep laxus hype you don't need to turn the entire fairy tail on its head.

never heard of a humble person have you?
erza who has repeatedly said she is weak. i am guessing you will put laxus on levy tier afterall laxus just said he has no strength.
erza feats shows she is far above him. just because she believes in natsu means nothing. if wrecked erza can one shot full powered aria then full powered erza can definity one shot gajeel and wreck natsu too. feats are feats, i am sorry.

first I like to compare your comparison with mine
MINE

YOURS

notice I only compared pre ts. you required gmg also.
next I compare say character 'B' against natsu and then the same character 'B' against erza. once I compared character 'B' against natus and then character 'B' against another character 'C' and finally that character 'C' with erza. (erza, natsu, aria, or natsu racer, with erza cobra racer hoteye and last one natsu gajeel, gajeel pantherlily, then pantherlily against azuma finally azuma against erza)
what do you do, you give hype (not complete hype either) then you compare different fights having no relation with each other (laxus vs jura to erza vs Minerva and kagura). then things we have no information of, like do you know what would have happened if fresh erza had given all her powers to natsu against hades. no?
and finally you go all out compare a pre ts character with tartarus one (do you really think they are at all relevant power wise now, is bicsolow (from laxus group, cant spell) still near gray level?)

think, for one moment one moment unbias, arent my comparisons better than yours?
i can take praises, no problem

now lets look at your points.
when did minerva says she along with erza are weaker than jura. all i remember telling her team not to approach Jura and Kagura. forgot laxus apparently.
as far as i know cards and stats were in magical games edition or something which was like two chapter before minerva introduction. stats also did not include minerva because she wasnt in the team then.
all know when she did that god war spell jura was shocked someone this powerful was there. (but since this hype is not for laxus you will ignore it )

This is very bad example. juvia was in better condition after fighting meridy compared to gildart after bluenote. what does that mean. even lucy was moving around (she fought people stronger than herself unlike gildarts) yet gildarts wasnt moving and lucy went on to fight hades.


wrecked erza one shot aria. even if gajeel is stronger than aria, i am not gonna put him on a tier above aria (especially since blinded aria was low diffing natsu). full powered erza should still be able to one shot gajeel. that still puts erza above laxus.
again humble character statement for the main character, have we never seen this before?



not good example.
for comparison please provide me information what would have happed if fresh erza gave that power


horrifying example
old villians lose their relevance after their arc. add time skip and they are basically fodders
add on top jellal knew everything about them. it took three OS to put erza away with that snake and it was also a sneak attack. Tartartus jellal basically is above pre ts erza
looks sadly below Tartarus erza. One deman gate was enough to put raijinshu away, remember

seriously man
so someone who has 50power level can causally kill someone who has 40 power level?
but someone on 10 power level cant do to the same to someone on 2 power level

wow, how much free time do you have bro?

 

[sharkai]

wow, how much free time do you have bro?

Exactly
My responses becomes thesis size
Its annoying as hell

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 12, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 12, 2019 ---

1) There's no reason to believe that Invel's ice armour can cancel out Wall's etherion, or even Wall's regular punches. Just because they're both Spriggans and have similar amounts of magic power, doesn't mean their spells are equally powerful. Similarly, there's no reason to believe that Jura's mt fuji can cancel out Jellal's Sema either. The whole point about Neinhart is to point out how ridiculous it is to assume that all Spriggans are equal in every stat. I don't actually think Neinhart can defend against Invel's best attack (which would be his true ice armour) by creating a historia, but this is the consequence of your logic. Apparently you're rolling with it, so I don't know what to say. Btw, Neinhart actually has more magic power than either Wall or Invel after Irene enchanted him. Does that mean Neinhart's best attack is now stronger than Etherion lol?

2) There's no hype here. Laxus killed Wall with the first attack that he used that Wall wasn't immune to. Natsu with END's power cannot kill Dimaria, despite being bloodlusted. Laxus' attack power is greater than END's attack power. You can say that Laxus had power of emotions, but the same is true for Natsu. Natsu always has power of emotions, and his emotions were pretty strong when he thought Lucy died. Red lightning is different enough from regular lightning that Wall cannot transform it into power. We don't know if Wall is super weak to it, so I don't assume that he was.

3) Just because Laxus can kill Ajeel with a nuke doesn't mean he can kill Erza. Erza has better durability than Ajeel. Jury is still out on Mirajane, but I'm sure her durability is better than Ajeel's too. So none of this implies that Laxus can easily kill Erza. What it does imply is that Laxus has better attack power than Erza's nakagami armour and Jupiter canon.

4) The guildmaster of Phantom Lord, the guild to whom Gajeel and Aria both belonged to, considers Gajeel to be the strongest man in his guild. Jose himself is also far stronger than Aria, and he considers Gajeel stronger than the Element 4. Natsu did indeed awaken his power when he fought Gajeel. Erza considers that version of Natsu to be equal or stronger than herself. Gajeel wasn't a fodder during the Phantom Lord arc. Gajeel's durability is several times better than Aria's.

5) Natsu was always stronger than Gray. They were not close during the start of the series, and it was only during the Tartaros arc where Gray truly caught up to Natsu. When Fukuro absorbed a bit of Natsu's power. One roar was enough to overpower Gray's ice-make lance, and then it took a tremendous amount of effort and POF for Gray to freeze those flames. The roar was the only real attack Gray took during that fight, and it caused enough damage that Gray passed out and had to be carried out by Happy. Natsu went on to fight Jellal, and used even stronger attacks.

Spoiler: Gray vs Natsu's flames

Spoiler: Aftermath of that fight

Spoiler: Happy had to carry Gray out

Spoiler: Gray's condition

6) That goes far beyond humble. Saying Natsu is equal or stronger than herself simply isn't something Erza would say if she thought she could solo Natsu and Gajeel. Laxus saying that he is weak doesn't mean anything. They weren't talking about magic power or even physical strength. Laxus doesn't say that he thinks he's weaker than everyone else in the guild. Who knows what standard Laxus is comparing himself to when he says he is weak. Laxus might only consider people like Acnologia strong, and finds anyone weaker than that to be weak.

7) The 1st timeskip is basically irrelevant when talking about Laxus. Why? Because there has only been a 3 months for Laxus after he got back from Tenrou Island, and he didn't spend any time training. To put that in comparison, it's been 6 months since Lucy joined the guild to when Tenrou Island happened. Laxus during the GMG is basically the same Laxus from the beginning of the series. What has changed is that Jura has spent the past 7 years training, and has become the 5th strongest Wizard Saint during that time. He is at such a level where Mirajane considers him to be stronger than herself and Erza combined. Obviously Mirajane didn't know about Erza's second origin, but we're not considering second origin here.

8) The guild card with Orga's stats came out after the GMG arc. I'll say it 3 more times: After the GMG arc. After the GMG arc. After the GMG arc. This means it came out after all the showings that Minerva had during the GMG arc. There's simply no excuse to be made here. Orga is considered stronger than MInerva when all was said and done. Quite frankly it doesn't matter if Minerva didn't mention to be cautious of Laxus because she never saw Laxus fight, and Laxus ended up straight up beating Jura anyways.

9) Quite frankly, I'm not sure where you are going with the comparison between Juvia and Meredy and Gildarts and Bluenote. If anyone is comparable to Bluenote, it's Jura. Makarov considers him a match for Gildarts, and Mirajane considers him stronger than both herself and Erza. Kagura and Minerva would have been no stronger than Erza or Mirajane either, meaning Laxus beat an opponent that is stronger than Kagura and Minerva. Laxus was in a better condition after having beaten Jura than Erza was in after having beaten both Minerva and Kagura, and she wouldn't have beaten Minerva without second origin at all.

10) It doesn't matter if Erza wasn't fresh against Hades. Hades beat the entire team, and Laxus power made Natsu stronger than the entire team. Laxus' power was stated by Erza to be comparable to when Natsu etherion, and etherion made Natsu stronger than Jellal. Jellal completely outclassed Erza during the Tower of Heaven arc. Who says Hades couldn't casually kill Wendy? Hades would have killed Natsu if Laxus hadn't saved him. Needless to say, Natsu was stronger than Wendy. All of this doesn't change the fact that the difference between Laxus' power and Wall's power is larger than the difference between Hade's power and Wendy's power.

1) enhanced nienhart would be able to produce historia wahl whos etherion will evaporate actual wahl with his etherion
2) wahl was killed by extreme pof move of laxus. If we are using this then erza is not on laxus level, she is couple of levels above him, she over powered strongest springgan strongest move. This is not casual laxus. END causally beat the hell out of dimeria, pof END with beat the hell laxus as well
3) no, you dont make durability out of nowhere. If mira can have better durability than ajeel, than gmg kagura can have better durability than gmg jura
4)gajeel durability is not several times better than aria. Please show me same move that both gajeel and aria faced in phantom arc. You are literally are producing things out of thin air. So no talk about gajeel behavior might have influenced aria. We just have to take his words i guess, ignoring feats as we go. Also we go further and assume gajeel durability has to be better than aria, because now apparently stronger mages do not actually need to have better durability
5) so natsu was stronger than gray before, then released some dormant power. God, how strong is natsu compared to gray. I thought they were rivals. But i guess we have to ignore the entire portrayal of them being rivals and around each other to hype laxus. I wonder if levy and guldarts are rival, maybe they also trade blows off screen just like natsu and fodder gray
6)lol. That is humble. She knows he is the main character. Na laxus thinks he is weak, and he is not talking about religious faith weakness. Even markarov thought natsu can take laxus
7)mirajane would only know about erza her rival, back before lissana died not after that. If we are to believe that hype, i am assuming you also believe in war god spell hype and that s class monster hype? Why i didnt use gmg because i have plenty of hype from that arc too.
8) repeating it wont make it any more impactful. Just give me Minerva stats and ogra stats from the manga, we compare them. But she did mention kagura. Meaning she was putting kagura above erza, laxus and ogra
9)nor did i when you compared erza and laxus fight. Erza was injured protecting kagura. And they were dragons thus dragon slayers only performed. Why dont you look out how main character fight compared secondary characters like gildarts or laxus. Do you think main characters have more stemina
10) laxus cant kill wahl without pof. Hades can kill wendy without. I am not gonna compare wrecked character against full fresh one. If you want such comparisons we can compare laxus vs hades to erza vs irene and talk about how many laxus s erza can easily stomp.

Wait when did jellal outclass erza heaven arc

 

[Axiomus]

Exactly
My responses becomes thesis size
Its annoying as hell

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 12, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 12, 2019 ---

1) enhanced nienhart would be able to produce historia wahl whos etherion will evaporate actual wahl with his etherion
2) wahl was killed by extreme pof move of laxus. If we are using this then erza is not on laxus level, she is couple of levels above him, she over powered strongest springgan strongest move. This is not casual laxus. END causally beat the hell out of dimeria, pof END with beat the hell laxus as well
3) no, you dont make durability out of nowhere. If mira can have better durability than ajeel, than gmg kagura can have better durability than gmg jura
4)gajeel durability is not several times better than aria. Please show me same move that both gajeel and aria faced in phantom arc. You are literally are producing things out of thin air. So no talk about gajeel behavior might have influenced aria. We just have to take his words i guess, ignoring feats as we go. Also we go further and assume gajeel durability has to be better than aria, because now apparently stronger mages do not actually need to have better durability
5) so natsu was stronger than gray before, then released some dormant power. God, how strong is natsu compared to gray. I thought they were rivals. But i guess we have to ignore the entire portrayal of them being rivals and around each other to hype laxus. I wonder if levy and guldarts are rival, maybe they also trade blows off screen just like natsu and fodder gray
6)lol. That is humble. She knows he is the main character. Na laxus thinks he is weak, and he is not talking about religious faith weakness. Even markarov thought natsu can take laxus
7)mirajane would only know about erza her rival, back before lissana died not after that. If we are to believe that hype, i am assuming you also believe in war god spell hype and that s class monster hype? Why i didnt use gmg because i have plenty of hype from that arc too.
8) repeating it wont make it any more impactful. Just give me Minerva stats and ogra stats from the manga, we compare them. But she did mention kagura. Meaning she was putting kagura above erza, laxus and ogra
9)nor did i when you compared erza and laxus fight. Erza was injured protecting kagura. And they were dragons thus dragon slayers only performed. Why dont you look out how main character fight compared secondary characters like gildarts or laxus. Do you think main characters have more stemina
10) laxus cant kill wahl without pof. Hades can kill wendy without. I am not gonna compare wrecked character against full fresh one. If you want such comparisons we can compare laxus vs hades to erza vs irene and talk about how many laxus s erza can easily stomp.

1) So you think Neinhart can use an etherion just as powerful as Wall's? Well I guess Neinhart has the best attack power and defenses among the Spriggans. I guess that since Neinhart is a Spriggan, his defenses must also be just as good as Wall's true-ice armour as well.

2) Even if you argue that Laxus had POF against Wall, so did Natsu when he had END's power and Erza when she fought Irene. There is no such thing as "casual" END. END only comes out when Natsu is enraged. When all is said and done, Laxus is still stronger than Natsu with END's powers. His attacks did more damage to Wall than Natsu's attacks did to Dimaria.

3) Look, at the end of the day, it is in August's professional opinion as the strongest mage in Alvarez that Laxus' nuke would have killed Ajeel. That's why he personally stepped in to defend Ajeel. If Mirajane has better durability than Ajeel, then she might not die to that attack. If she doesn't, then she dies. I don't actually care enough to argue about where Mirajane's durability is at. I will say, however, that Mirajane having better durability than Ajeel doesn't imply that GMG Kagura had better durability than Jura.

4) Aria got oneshotted by a regular punch by Makarov without even using titan. It took Natsu an attack that shattered the Phantom Lord guild to take down Gajeel, plus Gajeel has tanked attacks like Laxus' roar and heavenward halberd. Both of which are attacks that are arguably stronger than a regular punch by Makarov. Gajeel was considered by Jose to be the strongest man in his guild, and Gajeel's magic has better defensive properties to begin with.

5) Natsu has always been stronger than Gray up until the GMG arc. Just because you are rivals doesn't mean you are equals. Heck. Current Natsu and Gray are still rivals right now, but Natsu is much stronger than Gray. I have no idea why you are bringing Levy and Gildarts into the mix. It seems like every other point, you bring 2 random characters into the discussion. Levy and Gildarts are not rivals on a personal level, nor are the close to power level.

6) Erza doesn't "know Natsu is the main character" lmao. That would imply Erza knows she's a fictional character in the story. No, Erza simply considered Natsu to be around her level during the Phantom Lord arc. You don't believe her. It's really as simple as that. I'm not talking about religious faith either. Like I said, Laxus is weak according to his own standard. He never said that he considers himself weaker than the other members of the guild.

7) It's not like Mirajane is completely oblivious to how strong Erza was. If you consider Mirajane to be anywhere close to Erza's level at all, then her opinion is still tells us how much stronger Jura is than her. Do I buy the hype of the pumpkin telling us that the S-Class monster can challenge a wizard saint? Sure, but there are differences among the wizard saint and Jura is high on the list. Do I buy the hype of the war god spell? Well, what exactly is supposed to be so impressive about it?

8) We don't have Minerva's stats, but it simply doesn't matter. The guild card flat out says that Orga is the strongest member of Sabertooth when he's using his god slaying magic. It was released as the cover of chapter 350, which is long after we've already seen Minerva's performance during the GMG arc.

9) Erza's foot being crushed by falling rocks while trying to save Kagura is not really an excuse. Don't you think Jura tried his very best to crush Laxus with his rocks? I'm not seeing your point here. Even disregarding the crushed foot, Laxus was in better shape. The dragon slayers being the only ones that can damage the dragons is not an excuse either. We're not comparing their effectiveness against dragons here.

10) Laxus managed to beat both Wall and Hades. This means after using up the power to beat Wall, Laxus still has more power than Hades. This, by definition, is larger than the difference between Hades and Wendy. It doesn't matter if Hades can casually kill Wendy and Laxus had to tap into POF to kill Wall. That's completely irrelevant. There is a still a larger difference in power between Laxus and Wall than Hades and Wendy.

 

[sharkai]

1) So you think Neinhart can use an etherion just as powerful as Wall's? Well I guess Neinhart has the best attack power and defenses among the Spriggans. I guess that since Neinhart is a Spriggan, his defenses must also be just as good as Wall's true-ice armour as well.

2) Even if you argue that Laxus had POF against Wall, so did Natsu when he had END's power and Erza when she fought Irene. There is no such thing as "casual" END. END only comes out when Natsu is enraged. When all is said and done, Laxus is still stronger than Natsu with END's powers. His attacks did more damage to Wall than Natsu's attacks did to Dimaria.

3) Look, at the end of the day, it is in August's professional opinion as the strongest mage in Alvarez that Laxus' nuke would have killed Ajeel. That's why he personally stepped in to defend Ajeel. If Mirajane has better durability than Ajeel, then she might not die to that attack. If she doesn't, then she dies. I don't actually care enough to argue about where Mirajane's durability is at. I will say, however, that Mirajane having better durability than Ajeel doesn't imply that GMG Kagura had better durability than Jura.

4) Aria got oneshotted by a regular punch by Makarov without even using titan. It took Natsu an attack that shattered the Phantom Lord guild to take down Gajeel, plus Gajeel has tanked attacks like Laxus' roar and heavenward halberd. Both of which are attacks that are arguably stronger than a regular punch by Makarov. Gajeel was considered by Jose to be the strongest man in his guild, and Gajeel's magic has better defensive properties to begin with.

5) Natsu has always been stronger than Gray up until the GMG arc. Just because you are rivals doesn't mean you are equals. Heck. Current Natsu and Gray are still rivals right now, but Natsu is much stronger than Gray. I have no idea why you are bringing Levy and Gildarts into the mix. It seems like every other point, you bring 2 random characters into the discussion. Levy and Gildarts are not rivals on a personal level, nor are the close to power level.

6) Erza doesn't "know Natsu is the main character" lmao. That would imply Erza knows she's a fictional character in the story. No, Erza simply considered Natsu to be around her level during the Phantom Lord arc. You don't believe her. It's really as simple as that. I'm not talking about religious faith either. Like I said, Laxus is weak according to his own standard. He never said that he considers himself weaker than the other members of the guild.

7) It's not like Mirajane is completely oblivious to how strong Erza was. If you consider Mirajane to be anywhere close to Erza's level at all, then her opinion is still tells us how much stronger Jura is than her. Do I buy the hype of the pumpkin telling us that the S-Class monster can challenge a wizard saint? Sure, but there are differences among the wizard saint and Jura is high on the list. Do I buy the hype of the war god spell? Well, what exactly is supposed to be so impressive about it?

8) We don't have Minerva's stats, but it simply doesn't matter. The guild card flat out says that Orga is the strongest member of Sabertooth when he's using his god slaying magic. It was released as the cover of chapter 350, which is long after we've already seen Minerva's performance during the GMG arc.

9) Erza's foot being crushed by falling rocks while trying to save Kagura is not really an excuse. Don't you think Jura tried his very best to crush Laxus with his rocks? I'm not seeing your point here. Even disregarding the crushed foot, Laxus was in better shape. The dragon slayers being the only ones that can damage the dragons is not an excuse either. We're not comparing their effectiveness against dragons here.

10) Laxus managed to beat both Wall and Hades. This means after using up the power to beat Wall, Laxus still has more power than Hades. This, by definition, is larger than the difference between Hades and Wendy. It doesn't matter if Hades can casually kill Wendy and Laxus had to tap into POF to kill Wall. That's completely irrelevant. There is a still a larger difference in power between Laxus and Wall than Hades and Wendy.

1) same mp, same power output. thus equal. if different magic like hax vs brute strength then it becomes complex and expert wins
2) END is angry, this not equal of POF of nakama nonsense, you saw that when natsu killed zeref. END fuked up dimeria completely, she was scared of him. wahl was laughing, allowing laxus clear hit and laxus was amped on POF. laxus on his own, withot pof has no clear feat on END level.
3) or he just protected him because it would hurt ajeel. and started talking nonsense, just like he did about serena being with him. laxus cannot casually kill ajeel. bad guys because of lack of panels always seems to have lower durability, but that actually is not true. why would ajeel say have less durability than erza or mira or even laxus? because of less panels

4) why do you keep bringing this up. Aria was never one shot by Markarov. he was one shot by erza. after he got up, that is when markarov hit him. markarov basically knocked out aria with basically zero hp. apparently now being a stronger guy does not mean having a better durability thank you ajeel. so how strong is gajeel compared aria anyway
5) rival by definition means you are equal. that is why you don't see gildarts and levy throwing punches at each other, because of being unequal. if natsu was ever stronger we would have seen natsu stomping gray, when he got on his nerves (just like erza, laxus and gildarts did with natsu). only reason you think natsu stronger is because he is the main character. but mishma clearly showed they were around each. before and after phantom arc. literally meaning no dormant power. that is why they can be rivals. otherwise everyone would have told gray save his life and stay away from natsu
6) everyone knew natsu was special, that includes erza, jellal, markarov. even gildarts. if mishma wanted to show erza as natsu equivilant than why was racer enough to put down nastu, gray and three fodders while mishma had three OS members take out erza.
7) good lets break it down.
S class monster = weakest WS
S class monster plus 99 monsters > weakest WS
pre ts jura = weakest WS (check it up)
pre ts erza OR nonSO erza>S class monster plus 99 monsters
SO being equal to time skip power up.
if pre ts jura is around pre ts jellal and pre ts laxus level
then SO erza is above gmg jura

what did jura say about the war god spell?

8) as I said, it did not factor in Minerva. jura after seeing ogra strongest move was still shocked at that war god spell

9) actually you have to look at outside the story. in tenrou arc. erza natsu gray and lucy fought around four battles before they went to fight hades. gildarts was involved in two (and difference between natsu and gildarts was huge, advantage others did not have). so why wasn't gildarts there? do they have more stamina than gildarts, no. they are main characters that is why.
same for gmg, all dragon slayers performed, wrecked rogue = cobra = full fresh sting

10) this point was basically about laxus can kill a springgan causally, I think you forgot that. so he cant kill ajeel casually?


ok, lets just finish this easily
just answer these questions
Q) are jellal and laxus equal pre ts
Q) why did mishma not show jellal casually over powering erza like he did with natsu. why was erza removed from the fight using underhand methods
Q) why did mishma not show laxus casually over powering erza, why again erza was removed from the fight
Q) was pre ts erza compared with WS. didn't pre ts erza take out S class monster plus 99 others, clearly showing she was well above weakest WS rank. wouldn't SO bump her near 5th 6th WS level

 

[Axiomus]

1) same mp, same power output. thus equal. if different magic like hax vs brute strength then it becomes complex and expert wins
2) END is angry, this not equal of POF of nakama nonsense, you saw that when natsu killed zeref. END fuked up dimeria completely, she was scared of him. wahl was laughing, allowing laxus clear hit and laxus was amped on POF. laxus on his own, withot pof has no clear feat on END level.
3) or he just protected him because it would hurt ajeel. and started talking nonsense, just like he did about serena being with him. laxus cannot casually kill ajeel. bad guys because of lack of panels always seems to have lower durability, but that actually is not true. why would ajeel say have less durability than erza or mira or even laxus? because of less panels

4) why do you keep bringing this up. Aria was never one shot by Markarov. he was one shot by erza. after he got up, that is when markarov hit him. markarov basically knocked out aria with basically zero hp. apparently now being a stronger guy does not mean having a better durability thank you ajeel. so how strong is gajeel compared aria anyway
5) rival by definition means you are equal. that is why you don't see gildarts and levy throwing punches at each other, because of being unequal. if natsu was ever stronger we would have seen natsu stomping gray, when he got on his nerves (just like erza, laxus and gildarts did with natsu). only reason you think natsu stronger is because he is the main character. but mishma clearly showed they were around each. before and after phantom arc. literally meaning no dormant power. that is why they can be rivals. otherwise everyone would have told gray save his life and stay away from natsu
6) everyone knew natsu was special, that includes erza, jellal, markarov. even gildarts. if mishma wanted to show erza as natsu equivilant than why was racer enough to put down nastu, gray and three fodders while mishma had three OS members take out erza.
7) good lets break it down.
S class monster = weakest WS
S class monster plus 99 monsters > weakest WS
pre ts jura = weakest WS (check it up)
pre ts erza OR nonSO erza>S class monster plus 99 monsters
SO being equal to time skip power up.
if pre ts jura is around pre ts jellal and pre ts laxus level
then SO erza is above gmg jura

what did jura say about the war god spell?

8) as I said, it did not factor in Minerva. jura after seeing ogra strongest move was still shocked at that war god spell

9) actually you have to look at outside the story. in tenrou arc. erza natsu gray and lucy fought around four battles before they went to fight hades. gildarts was involved in two (and difference between natsu and gildarts was huge, advantage others did not have). so why wasn't gildarts there? do they have more stamina than gildarts, no. they are main characters that is why.
same for gmg, all dragon slayers performed, wrecked rogue = cobra = full fresh sting

10) this point was basically about laxus can kill a springgan causally, I think you forgot that. so he cant kill ajeel casually?


ok, lets just finish this easily
just answer these questions
Q) are jellal and laxus equal pre ts
Q) why did mishma not show jellal casually over powering erza like he did with natsu. why was erza removed from the fight using underhand methods
Q) why did mishma not show laxus casually over powering erza, why again erza was removed from the fight
Q) was pre ts erza compared with WS. didn't pre ts erza take out S class monster plus 99 others, clearly showing she was well above weakest WS rank. wouldn't SO bump her near 5th 6th WS level

1) Same having the same amount of magic power doesn't mean you have the sameattack power. It also doesn't mean that your defense is equal to your opponent's attack power.
2) Power of feelings is simply power that comes from emotions. Natsu was enraged because he thought Lucy had died, so he had POF. There simply is no such thing as a casual END. END's power only activates when Natsu taps into his emotions. Saying that Laxus had POF when he fought Wall is meaningless because Natsu had POF when he had END's power as well, and Laxus' feats were still better. Quite frankly, if Laxus' punches were weaker than END's punches, then Erza should be able to stop them with her bare hands.
3) August literally said that he would feel sad if any of his comrades would die. There's no reason to doubt August's judgement here. Him saying that Serena was with him in his heart isn't even remotely similar as an example.
4) Aria was oneshotted by Makarov. Aria had plenty of time to recover after Erza's slash. People get back up from getting knocked down all the time. By the way, how do you know Erza did most of the damage here? How do you know Makarov's punch didn't do most of the damage? As far as I can tell, Aria got back up after Erza's slash and still had enough magic power to attempt a sneak attack. Nobody got back up after Makarov. Being stronger does generally mean you have better durability. That only helps to prove my case because Gajeel is stronger than Aria. In fact, not only is Gajeel stronger than Aria, but he also he has a magic that is better suited for defense.
5) Rival doesn't mean you are equals. You can be rivals on a personal level, but be vastly different when it comes to actual power level. Natsu has always been stronger than Gray, and has outshined in feats in every arc except the Tartaros arc. Levy and Gildarts aren't rivals on a personal level or in terms of power, so this is an extremely odd example.
6) Erza knew Natsu was special because he was a dragon slayer. That's the reason why everyone thought he was special too. People like Simon even knew that he was raised by Igneel, and Igneel is kind of a big deal for those that were familiar with dragons. Erza doesn't know Natsu is the main character. That would require her to know that she's in a fictional story....which isn't the case here. Oracion Seis caught the group off guard. In their rematch, Racer couldn't solo Gray and Lyon.
7) Pre-1st timeskip Jura was indeed the weakest wizard saint and would have been weaker than Jose. GMG Jura was the 5th ranked wizard saint, meaning he got stronger than Makarov. Laxus has always been stronger than GMG Jura. Again, there's no power-up for Laxus during the 1st timeskip. After he got back from Tenrou Island, there was only 3 months before the Grand Magic Games started. During that time, Laxus was never specifically stated to have trained. He just showed up. For all practical purposes, GMG Laxus is the exact same power level as Tenrou Laxus....and this version of Laxus can beat GMG Jura.
8) How did it not factor in Minerva? Jura hadn't fought Orga when Minerva used the war god spell. The most you can say is that her attack was stronger than the attack he used on the MPF, which wasn't him going all out anyways.
9) You're basically saying Laxus had better showings than Erza because plot demanded it. To which I say, so what? Erza of all characters should not be complaining about having plot dictate favorable showings.
10) Laxus can casually kill Ajeel. He can't casually kill Wall because Wall built himself to be immune to lightning, so he needed "lightning that surpassed lightning". That was his red lightning.

To answer your questions:

• In terms of magic power, Jellal and Laxus are equals. Both of them giving their magic to Natsu was comparable to etherion. In terms of how strong they actually are in combat, it's anyone's guess, but I would favor Laxus.
• Erza wasn't taken out by underhanded methods. Sure Jellal used a snake-bind on her, but she got out of it by the time Jellal casted Altairis. If Erza was a match for Jellal, she would have fought him then.
• Erza was removed from the fight to take down Thunder Palace....which was one of Laxus' spells. The damage she took from that took her out anyways. Also, Laxus would have simply killed everyone had Fairy Law actually worked. Fairy Tail only survived Laxus because he viewed them as friends.
• Pre-timeskip Erza was already comparable to a Wizard Saint, yes. Indeed second origin would bring her closer to the 5th rank. That's why I say Erza after she released second origin closed the gap between Laxus. Erza during the fighting festival arc, however, wasn't on his level.

 

[kenedyfake]

Laxus can casually kill Ajee

--------------------





it didn't happen, this is fallacy ...

you have to stop putting opinions characteres and fallacies as facts.

 

[Ramen]

It isn't a fallacy ur just making a

Laxus can casually kill Ajee

--------------------





it didn't happen, this is fallacy ...

you have to stop putting opinions characteres and fallacies as facts.

It's not fallacy ur just making it a fallacy.

Using ur logic: anything that doesn't happen is a fallacy

 

[kenedyfake]

It isn't a fallacy ur just making a


It's not fallacy ur just making it a fallacy.

Using ur logic: anything that doesn't happen is a fallacy

If you use something that didn't happen as hard evidence, then yes.

Luxus never defeated Ajeel casually, we have 2 different opinions of August and Ajeel.

 

[Ramen]

If you use something that didn't happen as hard evidence, then yes.

Luxus never defeated Ajeel casually, we have 2 different opinions of August and Ajeel.

Ajeel: Same guy who wanted to take on Ishgar by himself and got fodderized by Elfman and Lisanna

August: Strongest Human wizard who could low diff Gildarts and had to get involved for a reason.

Hmmmm I wonder which one makes sense.

Using ur logic:

Natsu = August because it never happened

 

[Ebony Maw]

@Ebony Maw i disagree at this point RL laxus has reached DF NATSU meaning now natsu laxus and erza are on the same bubble

Eh, I mean...

In some ways I agree, since I could see Red Lightning Laxus being tankier than DF Natsu, and we know that durability and endurance are usually massive factors when it comes to deciding a fight between people in the same tier. The problem for me is that DF Natsu's offence craps on RL Laxus. I know Erza is just generally near impossible to put down, but DF Natsu literally incinerated an immortal and said immortal only survived because he had infinite MP + Time Magic. Also despite RL Laxus' crazy durability and endurance, he was still hurt by Erza's Twin Ice/Fire Swords. If he was hurt by those flames then I think its reasonable to speculate that DF Demo Fist would at the very least KO him, and even then I'm being generous (it would probably outright kill him).

Really it comes down to whether you think DF Natsu can get an Demo Fist to land and considering Erza managed to land multiple blows on RL Laxus, I see DF Natsu winning more often than not. This isn't really a mark against Laxus though, DF Natsu shits on basically anyone not called Acnologia and maybe August assuming his hax wouldn't be straight up fail against DF fire.

Also, I wouldn't say Erza is in the same bubble as DF Natsu and RL Laxus. The only areas where she compares/surpasses them in is endurance and maybe agility. Note that I didn't say durability, since its pretty clear that Laxus is her superior in that regard after tanking Kyria's Roar without flinching vs Erza having visible cuts on her. DF Natsu is hard to comment on in this regard but I'll give Natsu the benefit of the doubt and say that even if his durability is worse than Erza's, it shouldn't be by much. And he clearly has endurance for days given the sheer amount of fights he has one after another. I suppose my view of Natsu/Laxus/Erza is:

DF Natsu >> RL Laxus (could be even more superior given he gets more powerful the more he gets hurt) > Base Laxus = Erza???? (depends massively on how the fight with RL Laxus turns out) >= FDKM Natsu >> Base Natsu

My logic is that Erza right now is only really a factor against Laxus due to her crazy endurance. Her offence has definitely improved by a mile, since her swords actually damaged Laxus (meaning that attack is >> Kyria's Roar), but every attack Laxus lands on her is still clearly causing her great pain and damage... she's just kinda refusing to go down.

 

[Demon Hunter]

does RL Dragon Mode even raises his durability???

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 13, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 13, 2019 ---

btw, DF Natsu is at the top of the food chain.

the only way to beat him is if he misses you.

since Erza can tag with Laxus, I'm pretty sure Natsu would hit him with Demolition Fist.

 

[Cosmicstar]

Ajeel: Same guy who wanted to take on Ishgar by himself and got fodderized by Elfman and Lisanna

August: Strongest Human wizard who could low diff Gildarts and had to get involved for a reason.

Hmmmm I wonder which one makes sense.

Using ur logic:

Natsu = August because it never happened

The Ajeel thing was simply bad writing. I mean we are talking about a dude who at the beginning of the arc brushed off Grays devil slayer magic with Ease and easily blocked Jupiter cannon with one hand. Simply later on to be taken out by Lissana and Elfman(Off screen).

Also using @kenedyfake logic it would actually be the opposite.


Overall though Powerscaling is pointless when characters power consistently changes depending on the scenario. Also logic rarely applies in most battles. I mean you have "Because she is Erza" and "Lightning that surpasses lightning" moments.

 

[Ramen]

The Ajeel thing was simply bad writing. I mean we are talking about a dude who at the beginning of the arc brushed off Grays devil slayer magic with Ease and easily blocked Jupiter cannon with one hand. Simply later on to be taken out by Lissana and Elfman(Off screen).

Also using @kenedyfake logic it would actually be the opposite.


Overall though Powerscaling is pointless when characters power consistently changes depending on the scenario. Also logic rarely applies in most battles. I mean you have "Because she is Erza" and "Lightning that surpasses lightning" moments.

How he said if it didn't happen then it's just a fallacy. So then using his logic, saying August>>>Cana is fallacy because it never happened (technically it did but you get the point). Or anyone that August didn't fight for that matter.

Call it bad writing all you want but the point is Laxus wouldve killed Ajeel.

And then you have a fire that can surpass time and space......gah damn.

Don't forget the guy who bragged about using all curses but then doesn't use Macro, MM, Soul Absorption.

 

[Axiomus]

It was in August's opinion that Ajeel would have died to the nuke, which is why he personally stepped in and protected him. Is August's judgement not reliable? Obviously Ajeel thought August was wrong, but Ajeel has proven to be overconfident. If August thought that Ajeel could have handled the attack by himself, he would have just watched like he did when Hyperion started choking God Serena. In fact, he specifically told Jacob to stand down because he knew God Serena could handle it by himself. August did not make this call for Ajeel against Laxus.

 

[Ramen]

It was in August's opinion that Ajeel would have died to the nuke, which is why he personally stepped in and protected him. Is August's judgement not reliable? Obviously Ajeel thought August was wrong, but Ajeel has proven to be overconfident. If August thought that Ajeel could have handled the attack by himself, he would have just watched like he did when Hyperion started choking God Serena. In fact, he specifically told Jacob to stand down because he knew God Serena could handle it by himself. August did not make this call for Ajeel against Laxus.

Just the fact that August (aka the strongest human wizard) got involved proves this point.

 

[Demon Hunter]

Just the fact that August (aka the strongest human wizard) got involved proves this point.

he killed himself

though I agree he is reliable.

 

[Ramen]

he killed himself

though I agree he is reliable.

leave my boy alone he just wanted a hug.

Better than that one immortal guy who could control space and time who lost to a fire.

Or that one dragon girl who lost because of a smile..

 

[Demon Hunter]

leave my boy alone he just wanted a hug.

Better than that one immortal guy who could control space and time who lost to a fire.

Or that one dragon girl who lost because of a smile..

Spoiler

and people say he is strong