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Would this count as 9 attacks or as a single attack. I'd say, a single attack
It's a combo move. Remember that Erza is someone who solely relies on her swords (because fuck armour at this point lol). OF course she'll have these moves. At best, you can say it's a good CQC feat, and make the argument that Erza > Laxus in pure CQC (I wouldn't disagree there). This would be similar to Bacchus being able to throw multiple punches simultaneously, cause that's his main ability - CQC.
The difference between Erza and Jellal's combo feat is that Jellal summoned 9 attacks at the same time. Erza only had 1 sword. Which mean she didn't just blitz Laxus and sliced him with 5 swords which would have been 1 single attack. She was so fast that when blitzing him she cut him 5 times with the same sword which is hella more impressive!
The difference between Erza and Jellal's combo feat is that Jellal summoned 9 attacks at the same time. Erza only had 1 sword. Which mean she didn't just blitz Laxus and sliced him with 5 swords which would have been 1 single attack. She was so fast that when blitzing him she cut him 5 times with the same sword which is hella more impressive!
I just re-read the chapters involving the fight.
Chapter 43. Laxus lands 2 attacks, Erza lands none.
Chapter 44. Laxus lands like 10 attacks, while Erza landed 2 (3 if you count the kick which Laxus countered before it did damage).
Chapter 45, a bunch of random attacks exchange. Then came Exchange of final attack.
In fact it was Erza who needed distractions to land blows. One attack she landed (the one you linked) was a counter attack, before which Erza was constantly on the defensive. While the second one, with Natsu and Erza swords, caught Laxus by surprise.
Laxus has stamina (unless you have a different understanding of stamina, IMO stamina = magic power), strength, speed and attack power. Erza has endurance (durability), she basically tanked through everything Laxus put her through, because she's a massive tank.
Erza giving Laxus an extreme diff was a result of her insane durability and her buffs.
sorry man, I didn't catch my time counting character attacks, I didn't find that level of uselessness or adoration for a character ... I have things to do, even in quarantine ...
luxus hit a few more hits, erza few hits... its all.
I just re-read the chapters involving the fight.
Chapter 43. Laxus lands 2 attacks, Erza lands none.
Chapter 44. Laxus lands like 10 attacks, while Erza landed 2 (3 if you count the kick which Laxus countered before it did damage).
Chapter 45, a bunch of random attacks exchange. Then came Exchange of final attack.
In fact it was Erza who needed distractions to land blows. One attack she landed (the one you linked) was a counter attack, before which Erza was constantly on the defensive. While the second one, with Natsu and Erza swords, caught Laxus by surprise.
Laxus has stamina (unless you have a different understanding of stamina, IMO stamina = magic power), strength, speed and attack power. Erza has endurance (durability), she basically tanked through everything Laxus put her through, because she's a massive tank.
Erza giving Laxus an extreme diff was a result of her insane durability and her buffs.
Dont do this man.
I know you like to underrate erza, i guess that is ok, BUT seriously laxus was distracted when erza used fire and ice sword? I mean he had time to comment on it and then was suprised that erza actually decided to charge at him with those swords, seriously?
Oh come on, we've gone over this before. We know for a fact that source of Dragon Seal is Wendy. Dragon Seal does either of the three:
- buff her stats
- give her attack boost against DS
- does nothing.
Logically, it has to be first or second option IMO. But I remember, you chose the third
Natsu and Gray swords = boost to attack power. Sure, she knows how to enchant. But, the source of Natsu and Gray swords are Natsu and Gray, she needs their powers to enchant them onto her swords. She pre-prep'd it because they're faving Dragon Gods and Dragon Eaters.
If its big than we know for a fact she will pre prep red lightening and crash magic next time. I wonder how many tiers difference will there be between laxus and erza after that.
I mean we know this is a huge boost, like red lightening mode (though there is no mention of it in the manga), erza would be really dumb not using this easy power boost thing.
Dont do this man.
I know you like to underrate erza, i guess that is ok, BUT seriously laxus was distracted when erza used fire and ice sword? I mean he had time to comment on it and then was suprised that erza actually decided to charge at him with those swords, seriously?
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I wonder how much erza buff was?
If its big than we know for a fact she will pre prep red lightening and crash magic next time. I wonder how many tiers difference will there be between laxus and erza after that.
I mean we know this is a huge boost, like red lightening mode (though there is no mention of it in the manga), erza would be really dumb not using this easy power boost thing.
How big was the boost? I don't know about swords alone, but combined boost (seal + swords) took this from high diff to extreme diff.
Well, there is no way she's getting crash this spin off, since Gildarts isn't around to give her swords his magic. Red lighting is very much possible, but it wouldn't change much, it would be similar to Natsu and Gray swords, and now there will be a Laxus sword.
sorry man, I didn't catch my time counting character attacks, I didn't find that level of uselessness or adoration for a character ... I have things to do, even in quarantine ...
luxus hit a few more hits, erza few hits... its all.
Whatever. I thought mashima made it clear that Laxus was the one with upper hand until the final chapter of the fight. In final chapter, yeah they have upon defence/dodge and just went all out attack. And Laxus still barely came out on top
How big was the boost? I don't know about swords alone, but combined boost (seal + swords) took this from high diff to extreme diff.
Well, there is no way she's getting crash this spin off, since Gildarts isn't around to give her swords his magic. Red lighting is very much possible, but it wouldn't change much, it would be similar to Natsu and Gray swords, and now there will be a Laxus sword.
This ability Mashima has given Erza can make her as much as OP as Wendy if she can do it on her own which is not good for others. Her poor guildmates will lose their originality like poor Gray. DES was so unique. Imagine Erza running around the world with swords enchanted with Mira's takeover powers, RL, Natsu's flame(very soon Erza might be able to burn magic as well). She might well start a new guild. For Gildarts own good let's hope he stay away from Giletina.
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Would this count as 9 attacks or as a single attack. I'd say, a single attack
It's a combo move. Remember that Erza is someone who solely relies on her swords (because fuck armour at this point lol). OF course she'll have these moves. At best, you can say it's a good CQC feat, and make the argument that Erza > Laxus in pure CQC (I wouldn't disagree there). This would be similar to Bacchus being able to throw multiple punches simultaneously, cause that's his main ability - CQC.
Yes, Jellal's spell is a complex/combo attack. However, an opponent can avoid some of the blasts so the damage that combo attack causes varies based on how it connects to its target. In the scene @Jko showed, Laxus didn't react to the move, and Erza got five blows/completed her move. If he did react, he could've blocked/evaded the slashes, lowering the damage output of the attack, possibly 2-3 cuts instead.
Yes, Jellal's spell is a complex/combo attack. However, an opponent can avoid some of the blasts so the damage that combo attack causes varies based on how it connects to its target. In the scene @Jko showed, Laxus didn't react to the move, and Erza got five blows/completed her move. If he did react, he could've blocked/evaded the slashes, lowering the damage output of the attack, possibly 2-3 cuts instead.
It's a combo attack dude, it's likely one of her abilities. You're confusing real world logic, where you need to slash separately to slash. Let me ask you a question. How can someone cut 5 times at around same spot, while moving forward at a good speed, with a single sword? Think about it, it's practically impossible. That's why I call that attack a single attack, it's a combo move.
And again, I agree Erza > Laxus in pure CQC
Let me ask you this. Who is better in overall combat speed? Laxus, or Erza?
If your answer is: Erza, why was it the case that Laxus was pretty much mostly on the attack and overwhelming her the entire chapter? Don't tell me "it's cause he has higher attack power", that's one thing, but attack power alone won't allow you to be mostly on the offensive, speed plays a bigger factor here. It wasn't just that Laxus was tanking through Erza's attacks and overwhelming her, that would be pure power. It's more that Laxus was dodging and countering attacks from her, and overwhelming her by his own attacks.
There are many other examples illustrating this point (that to overwhelm, at least within same tier, speed is more important than attack power). The most prominent would be Racer, the guy barely had any attack power, but he was constantly on the offensive against Gray and Lyon because of massive speed advantage. Of course Laxus isn't that much faster than Erza, but I hope the point is illustrated.
This ability Mashima has given Erza can make her as much as OP as Wendy if she can do it on her own which is not good for others. Her poor guildmates will lose their originality like poor Gray. DES was so unique. Imagine Erza running around the world with swords enchanted with Mira's takeover powers, RL, Natsu's flame(very soon Erza might be able to burn magic as well). She might well start a new guild. For Gildarts own good let's hope he stay away from Giletina.
Completely agreed. Enchantment is a fucking disgrace. I've been telling this for a long time, Wendy (enchantment) is the worst thing that happened to Fairy Tail
Dude what are you saying, lol. I'm the first one to bring up that it was combo move and just explained to you about Jellals combo. A Combo attack is a sequence of attacks or hits that string into each other, ie Ezra's cuts or Jellals seven stars combining in grand chariot or those other spells. And again these types of attacks can cause varying amounts of damage based on how they connect. It's not always they cause -100 damage or so.
Let me ask you a question. How can someone cut 5 times at around same spot, while moving forward at a good speed, with a single sword? Think about it, it's practically impossible. That's why I call that attack a single attack, it's a combo move.
Now you're the one bringing real world logic, lol. It's a manga, lol. We see many things that should be impossible, become possible. I could list thousands of examples of swordsman moving at high speeds and doing several cuts around an area in anime/manga, lol.
Dude what are you saying, lol. I'm the first one to bring up that it was combo move and just explained to you about Jellals combo. A Combo attack is a sequence of attacks or hits that string into each other, ie Ezra's cuts or Jellals seven stars combining in grand chariot or those other spells. And again these types of attacks can cause varying amounts of damage based on how they connect. It's not always they cause -100 damage or so.
Now you're the one bringing real world logic, lol. It's a manga, lol. We see many things that should be impossible, become possible. I could list thousands of examples of swordsman moving at high speeds and doing several cuts around an area in anime/manga, lol.
Yea sure, you bought it up. So what? It's a single move, that's my point. Sure, damage is based on how it connects, that doesn't contradict anything I said.
Sure. So what? There is no explanation for it other than "it's their ability". Because those who do it always have some super-power. In no anime does 'regular' swordsmen (who're portrayed as prodigies, but still human) do these.
Erza is one of those who have super-powers. She has magic and shit. So, this is her ability. IT's a move, that's all I'm saying. And if you wanna argue that this ability makes her superior to Laxus in CQC, I already agree.
Let me ask you this. Who is better in overall combat speed? Laxus, or Erza?
If your answer is: Erza, why was it the case that Laxus was pretty much mostly on the attack and overwhelming her the entire chapter? Don't tell me "it's cause he has higher attack power", that's one thing, but attack power alone won't allow you to be mostly on the offensive, speed plays a bigger factor here. It wasn't just that Laxus was tanking through Erza's attacks and overwhelming her, that would be pure power. It's more that Laxus was dodging and countering attacks from her, and overwhelming her by his own attacks.
There are many other examples illustrating this point (that to overwhelm, at least within same tier, speed is more important than attack power). The most prominent would be Racer, the guy barely had any attack power, but he was constantly on the offensive against Gray and Lyon because of massive speed advantage. Of course Laxus isn't that much faster than Erza, but I hope the point is illustrated.
Yea sure, you bought it up. So what? It's a single move, that's my point. Sure, damage is based on how it connects, that doesn't contradict anything I said.
Sure. So what? There is no explanation for it other than "it's their ability". Because those who do it always have some super-power. In no anime does 'regular' swordsmen (who're portrayed as prodigies, but still human) do these.
Erza is one of those who have super-powers. She has magic and shit. So, this is her ability. IT's a move, that's all I'm saying. And if you wanna argue that this ability makes her superior to Laxus in CQC, I already agree.
Let's recap:
Me: Erza did a combo move, landing five blows/cuts
You: Tell me this, is this Jellal attack a combo move?
Me: Yes it's a combo move like Erzas. Here's some info on combo moves
You: Dude, erza's was a combo move. How could she do five slashes with one sword at that speed.
Me: Like I said, Erza did a combo move, here's a definition of a combo move. Also, in manga/anime you see swordsman able to do such feats. Here's a small list, Hiei, Meliodas, Trunks, Levi, Zeldris, Brain Unglas.
You: Sure. But no "human" could do such feats. People like Erza can.
Lol that's the point
Conclusion: Both your and Jkos interpretation are right in their own way. You're counting combo moves/ instance of attack, and Jko is counting how many times a person got tagged.
My bad, wasn't really debating this, but since you want my opinion, sure.
If we're talking in terms of combat speed/reaction time. They're on the same tier, you see both at times surprised by the others moves. Laxus with a slight edge.
Arguing that Erza & human swordsman in fiction don't posses superhuman speed. Allowing them to slash multiple times in an instant. I think I've seen it all in terms of debating FT & fictional characters lmao
Let's recap:
Me: Erza did a combo move, landing five blows/cuts
You: Tell me this, is this Jellal attack a combo move?
Me: Yes it's a combo move like Erzas. Here's some info on combo moves
You: Dude, erza's was a combo move. How could she do five slashes with one sword at that speed.
Me: Like I said, Erza did a combo move, here's a definition of a combo move. Also, in manga/anime you see swordsman able to do such feats. Here's a small list, Hiei, Meliodas, Trunks, Levi, Zeldris, Brain Unglas.
You: Sure. But no "human" could do such feats. People like Erza can.
Lol that's the point
Conclusion: Both your and Jkos interpretation are right in their own way. You're counting combo moves/ instance of attack, and Jko is counting how many times a person got tagged.
Almost, but my point anyway is that I count that as a single move, which you don't seem to disagree.
I count moves, because IMO that's what is relevant for comparing combat speed. Because it indicates how many times X was able to make a move on Y.
Laxus was able to make 7 moves on Erza, while Erza was able to make 2 oe 3 moves on Laxsu that chapter.
Laxus was able to dodge/counter multiple moves from Erza, while Erza could dodge/counter only one or two moves
For me, this implies Laxus is better in terms of combat speed.
My bad, wasn't really debating this, but since you want my opinion, sure.
If we're talking in terms of combat speed/reaction time. They're on the same tier, you see both at times surprised by the others moves. Laxus with a slight edge.
That's what this entire discussion was about lol. Overall, who's faster? What I was saying was that Laxus is faster. Yes they are in the same tier, but if Laxus is 100 in speed, Erza is 90.
Arguing that Erza & human swordsman in fiction don't posses superhuman speed. Allowing them to slash multiple times in an instant. I think I've seen it all in terms of debating FT & fictional characters lmao
I came in after Jko illustrated the battle, lol, which was well done and deserves props. Right after the post, Nova just dismissed it. As I said in my last post, I see both sides.
It's fair to count multiple cuts with one blade, because each cut must be done one after another.
It's unfair to count cutting with 2 swords at once, because both cuts land at the same time.
Erza and Laxus are close enough to each other's speed for it not to matter. Speed is very rarely the deciding factor in fights anymore.
Separate slash marks means she landed multiple attacks. You don't count different hits as 1 just bcs it happened in the same time frame as each other. Like you guys are blantantly ignoring she had to attack 5 different times in order slash him in 5 different places. You guys clearly ignore panels so I'm not going to waste my time further.
I’m not ignoring anything. I’m calling bullshit. There are 3 lines for 3 slashes. An you counted that shit as 7 different attacks. That’s bullshit. It wasn’t fucking 5 slashes
I came in after Jko illustrated the battle, lol, which was well done and deserves props. Right after the post, Nova just dismissed it. As I said in my last post, I see both sides.
I’m not ignoring anything. I’m calling bullshit. There are 3 lines for 3 slashes. An you counted that shit as 7 different attacks. That’s bullshit. It wasn’t fucking 5 slashes
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I dismissed it because there’s no kind of magic that makes 3 strikes into 7 attacks
Almost, but my point anyway is that I count that as a single move, which you don't seem to disagree.
I count moves, because IMO that's what is relevant for comparing combat speed. Because it indicates how many times X was able to make a move on Y.
Laxus was able to make 7 moves on Erza, while Erza was able to make 2 oe 3 moves on Laxsu that chapter.
Laxus was able to dodge/counter multiple moves from Erza, while Erza could dodge/counter only one or two moves
For me, this implies Laxus is better in terms of combat speed.
That's what this entire discussion was about lol. Overall, who's faster? What I was saying was that Laxus is faster. Yes they are in the same tier, but if Laxus is 100 in speed, Erza is 90.
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You didn't really get what I was pointing towards, but whatever.
We can add even more complexity in this by taking into consideration that all these speed feats happened while Erza was holding back. Laxus words, not mine
How big was the boost? I don't know about swords alone, but combined boost (seal + swords) took this from high diff to extreme diff.
Well, there is no way she's getting crash this spin off, since Gildarts isn't around to give her swords his magic. Red lighting is very much possible, but it wouldn't change much, it would be similar to Natsu and Gray swords, and now there will be a Laxus sword.
So you reckon that without Erza buffs (meaning no enchantment what so ever), she would have lost to red lightning laxus with additional blood lost boost at high diff?
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