Mishma needed what?
Mishma can literally produce a aconologia tier plus to entertain laxus. Don't put constraints on the author. He could literally have a springgam lackey one shot laxus and it wouldn't make sh!t of a difference to the story
Look natsu and gray shat themselves looking at brandish. That is a fact. Now you are saying their own had more mp than brandish, but was not mentioned in the story. Yeah that doesn't make sense.
Laxus and gray might be superior to an average springgan. But not in mp
No jellal mp is nowhere near nienhart either
Laxus fight is not that clean. Laxus could have been shown outright superior to an springgan,but instead we got this weird fight which ended with wahl laughing his head off for tye last attack
I am just asking to take that in consideration nothing more
Yea, he wants to have entertaining fights for Laxus.
Acno tiers will just one shot him, nothing entertaining about that. Eileen is reserved for Erza. Larcade already stomped him. August would give him Jellal treatment. This is the nest best he can do. Laxus destroys average Spriggans without a handicap, so give him some and lets have an entertaining fight. You're ignoring the obvious portrayal here. There is a reason August saved Ajeel's ass, and Laxus got nerfed against Wahl
END by feats has more MP than Dimaria. Darkness Gray scales to END, so he has as well.
DF Natsu powered out of base Zeref's incapacitation spell, don't tell me it won't be able to overpower hax of someone fodder to Zeref lmao.
Brandish's MP could be >> base Natsu's and Gray's, this says nothing about Laxus' since Laxus >> base Natsu and Gray too
By your own standards, Jellal's MP >> Neinhart's, since Neinhart shat his pants seeing Jellal flex his MP. But to acknowledge that, you need to not have double standards.
In before "it was because he was scared of GC", this was before he started casting or preping for any spell, but merely by doing nothing but power up.
I already acknowledged Wahl had CIS.
But what did this CIS accomplish? Railgun somewhat made up for Laxus' nerf from sickness. Nullifying MBP cured Laxus' sickness.
Literally all of Wahl's CIS was to make up for Laxus' disadvantage, after which he one shot him. This would've basically been Wahl if:
1. Laxus wasn't sick
2. Wahl wasn't immune to Laxus' magic
All the CIS did was neutralize Laxus' nerfs, it literally did nothing else.
First thing's first: Ultear's glass orb didn't die. Non-living objects cannot die. It cracked under the pressure of Zeref's death wave, which does exert a certain level of physical force. Ultear then reversed time for the orb, putting it back together and got rid of the curse still inside the orb. Btw Ultear absorbing the curse into her orb isn't arc of time.
Ankhseram's curse does not trigger unless Zeref values life. This is something that was explicitly explained many times. Zeref making the trees die around him isn't Ankhseram's curse, because it did not kill his minion standing right beside him. The minion was standing taller than some of the flowers around them. The flowers died, but the minion did not. The only way Zeref can fight effectively is by not valuing life, and the curse no longer fires off death waves when he thinks like that. In order for Zeref to hurt Aldoron, he must care about life....and doing so nerfs his magic to the point where mages like Ultear can beat him. Either way, Aldoron stomps. No matter which version of Zeref he faces, he'll just dispatch Wolfen to clone whoever can beat Zeref, and/or rain thicket from the skies until Zeref is forced to run away. The death wave, if it even triggers, is too slow to kill Aldoron before his seeds beat Zeref.
Ignia's fire was never said to have a special property that let's it burn Natsu. It's just really hot. Hot enough to overcome Natsu's dragon slayer resistance to fire. Speaking of which Zancrow's flames doesn't have any special property that lets it burn Natsu either, nor was it hot enough to overcome Natsu's resistance to fire. It didn't burn Natsu anywhere near Ignia's flames did. What makes Zancrow's flames special, and god slayer elements in general, was the fact that you couldn't eat it without emptying your magic reserves. "Savage flames" isn't even it's own type of fire. It's just Natsu FDK with flames of emotion. The term used was 荒ぶる感情の炎. 荒ぶる means wild/uncontrolled/rough. 感情の炎 is flames of emotion. Zeref's monologue basically went "Is this some type of sacred fire? Nope. It's wild flames of emotions". Which is to say "Savage Flames" is just Natsu using his emotions to make FDK destruction fist as hot as he can make it. It's just the upper limits of FDK.
Wall didn't have any disadvantage fighting Laxus. He used to have a weakness to lightning, but he changed his body to absorb lightning. Red Lightning was different enough from regular lightning that Wall couldn't absorb it. And let's take a step back here. Machines are vulnerable to malfunction from circuits being fried, but it's not like that matters here. Laxus' attack smashed Wall's face off. Whether or not the circuitry was vulnerable to getting fried is irrelevant at that point. You can argue that Wall's logic programs were malfunctioning, but that's only because he couldn't finish Laxus off and then Laxus tricked him. Having a nervous breakdown because your opponent is too tough and tricked you is just....well, just that. It's simply not comparable to having your organs failing from having inhaled poison.
We don't know if Brandish and Dimaria's magic can work on Laxus. They worked on Erza, so they should work on base Laxus. Red lightning is one a different level though, so we can't be certain how it works. None of this actually matters though, because Dimaria lacks the attack power to put down Laxus. She's not doing anything with that knife that Erza's enchanted katanas can't. Brandish can organ bust, but if she doesn't make Laxus' head explode or something....Laxus would just nuke her in retaliation. And of course, if Laxus is quicker on the draw, this isn't an issue to begin with.
On bold part
When did it work on Erza? In the hot spring? That worked on a powered down Erza in non-combat mode. We don't even know if it would work on serious Erza looking for a fight
Brandish also doesn't have feats of organ bursting anyone in combat. She did it to powered down off-guard Natsu who thought her an ally. Saying she can organ burst is like saying Jellal can insta no diff everyone in his tier using bind snake, since it worked on off guard Erza
O and the way ajeel lost to erza. Ajeel could easily think that erza was most likely the strongest mage the good guys had and even she couldn't win clean
Did aconologia also shat himself when Eileen threw him in the ocean. The expression kinda seems similar
Then what was the point of that character description. Why did machina have to be weak to lightning. Wouldn't it have been simpler if machina were just immune to lightning. What was the Wahl overcoming lightning weakness thing
Erm,I dont know. All I know Wahl was laughing his head off when laxus was charging for the final pof attack. He didn't even bother to block or something
No. Laxus got stalemated by erza in the very next arc. How is that living up to the hype. And Suzaku will most likely fall to the good guys as well. So he also won't
Wahl did a complete analysis of laxus in the start.
-What do you mean?
-Not really, he was pretty casual about the whole thing, looked like it didn't even really matter to him.
-No, because that wouldn't fit Wahl's theme of "weakness". If it came back into play against Laxus, it wouldve been mentioned.
-Block? How? Laxus blitzed him multiple times while simultaneously forming a Jutsu Shiki, while he was dying. Now that he's cured? Wahl had no chance.
-So? That's the next arc. You're not seriously going to tell me you think Laxus of all characters failed to live up to his hype in Alvarez are you?
-And? DId he state Laxus's strengths? He didn't even know how Laxus could survive the MBPs, which means he either doesn't know he's a Dragon Slayer, or he doesn't understand Dragon Slayers. Either way, Wahl knowing peoples strength is something you've made up entirely and the reason you're doing it is stupid too, PiS affects all fights, trying to use it to discredit Laxus's feats is pointless. It's like saying Natsu isn't above Jacob because Jacob didn't try to use Transport every second of the fight. No, Natsu shits on Jacob, Laxus shits on Wahl. Spriggans are literally dirt to them.
-What do you mean?
-Not really, he was pretty casual about the whole thing, looked like it didn't even really matter to him.
-No, because that wouldn't fit Wahl's theme of "weakness". If it came back into play against Laxus, it wouldve been mentioned.
-Block? How? Laxus blitzed him multiple times while simultaneously forming a Jutsu Shiki, while he was dying. Now that he's cured? Wahl had no chance.
-So? That's the next arc. You're not seriously going to tell me you think Laxus of all characters failed to live up to his hype in Alvarez are you?
-And? DId he state Laxus's strengths? He didn't even know how Laxus could survive the MBPs, which means he either doesn't know he's a Dragon Slayer, or he doesn't understand Dragon Slayers. Either way, Wahl knowing peoples strength is something you've made up entirely and the reason you're doing it is stupid too, PiS affects all fights, trying to use it to discredit Laxus's feats is pointless. It's like saying Natsu isn't above Jacob because Jacob didn't try to use Transport every second of the fight. No, Natsu shits on Jacob, Laxus shits on Wahl. Spriggans are literally dirt to them.
This from previous post. You said ajeel god complex wasn't effected after losing.
No he wasn't. Aconologia expression was kind of suprised or shock. Like ajeel expression was
It was mentioned. Wahl AI mentioned about not recognizing it.
Why wouldnt wahl have a chance, laxus still had no moves that could hurt him. Laxus had to Asspull to win here
Yes, especially that one shotting nonsense one. Laxus can't even one shot alverzec Mirajane, gajeel or gray
I am not discrediting anything. You are expert in that. I am simply saying laxus wasn't shown completely superior to Wahl because of those things. Those things kinda made the fight unclean
Springgan might be dirt to natsu. But not to laxus.
Yea, he wants to have entertaining fights for Laxus.
Acno tiers will just one shot him, nothing entertaining about that. Eileen is reserved for Erza. Larcade already stomped him. August would give him Jellal treatment. This is the nest best he can do. Laxus destroys average Spriggans without a handicap, so give him some and lets have an entertaining fight. You're ignoring the obvious portrayal here. There is a reason August saved Ajeel's ass, and Laxus got nerfed against Wahl
END by feats has more MP than Dimaria. Darkness Gray scales to END, so he has as well.
DF Natsu powered out of base Zeref's incapacitation spell, don't tell me it won't be able to overpower hax of someone fodder to Zeref lmao.
Brandish's MP could be >> base Natsu's and Gray's, this says nothing about Laxus' since Laxus >> base Natsu and Gray too
By your own standards, Jellal's MP >> Neinhart's, since Neinhart shat his pants seeing Jellal flex his MP. But to acknowledge that, you need to not have double standards.
In before "it was because he was scared of GC", this was before he started casting or preping for any spell, but merely by doing nothing but power up.
I already acknowledged Wahl had CIS.
But what did this CIS accomplish? Railgun somewhat made up for Laxus' nerf from sickness. Nullifying MBP cured Laxus' sickness.
Literally all of Wahl's CIS was to make up for Laxus' disadvantage, after which he one shot him. This would've basically been Wahl if:
1. Laxus wasn't sick
2. Wahl wasn't immune to Laxus' magic
All the CIS did was neutralize Laxus' nerfs, it literally did nothing else.
You are just producing constraints out of nowhere. You believe serena was somehow above average springgan. Have him fight laxus. Or his equal. You are seriously reaching here
And Eileen will give him same treatment as august would
Portrayal. You are ignoring the portrayal of springgan mp. And how laxus punch was completely matched by Wahl punch. And how laxus had to use pof to beat wahl
End doesn't have mp. Its a demon
Gray didn't mention wow laxus has even more mp than them
Dude you are the one with double standard. I still haven't seen anything from you comparing dragon Eileen to erza and dragon selene to suzaku.
Jellal wasn't flexing his mp. He was literally putting everything he had against Neinhart, whose historia magic has just gone whoop by erza. Nienhart is a summoning type.
Laxus used pof to.one shot him. Against an unguarded Wahl. Something you don't even want to mention and nor will you mention anything about not recognizing red lightning or Wahl weakness. Double standard lol
You are just producing constraints out of nowhere. You believe serena was somehow above average springgan. Have him fight laxus. Or his equal. You are seriously reaching here
And Eileen will give him same treatment as august would
Portrayal. You are ignoring the portrayal of springgan mp. And how laxus punch was completely matched by Wahl punch. And how laxus had to use pof to beat wahl
End doesn't have mp. Its a demon
Gray didn't mention wow laxus has even more mp than them
Dude you are the one with double standard. I still haven't seen anything from you comparing dragon Eileen to erza and dragon selene to suzaku.
Jellal wasn't flexing his mp. He was literally putting everything he had against Neinhart, whose historia magic has just gone whoop by erza. Nienhart is a summoning type.
Laxus used pof to.one shot him. Against an unguarded Wahl. Something you don't even want to mention and nor will you mention anything about not recognizing red lightning or Wahl weakness. Double standard lol
Well, considering Serena was used as hype tool for Acno, no. Mashima doesn't write with solely Laxus on the mind you know? The dude is a secondary character.
If you want to ignore the obvious portrayal of Laxus almost one shotting Ajeel, and him being double nerfed against Wahl, you do you lmao. It's not like your mind is going to change from anyone.
Actually no, Eileen wouldn't give Laxus the same treatment. Laxus would perform better than Erza, against both human and dragon form. The only reason he'd get no diff'd by August is because of magic immunity.
Portrayal of Spriggan MP relative to Makarov and base Gray/Natsu.
Yea, Wahl matched a punch whose magical aspect was rendered useless. Am I supposed to be impressed?
END has curse power, which is substitute of MP. Same shit, if you're strong enough, you resist hax.
Why would Gray mention Laxus when he hasn't even met Laxus until that point since timeskip?
?? Where did dragon Eileen/Erza/Suzaku/dragon Selene came out of? WTF? Not sure what you're trying to prove here.
Yea, Jellal flexed his MP. If you don't like "flex", Jellal powered up and scared Neinhart, happy? And then used GC. Just like gray got scared at Brandish's MP, Neinhart got scared at Jellal's MP. Not really hard dude
Unguarded? How? The dude was in combat mode. At best you could treat it as off guard attack/blitz. Since Wahl didn't bother countering the attack.
What weakness to lightning? I keep hearing this a lot, but not sure where the idea that Wahl is weak to lightning came from. If you can provide me a scan for it, I'll agree that this isn't as impressive as I claim it to be.
This from previous post. You said ajeel god complex wasn't effected after losing.
No he wasn't. Aconologia expression was kind of suprised or shock. Like ajeel expression was
It was mentioned. Wahl AI mentioned about not recognizing it.
Why wouldnt wahl have a chance, laxus still had no moves that could hurt him. Laxus had to Asspull to win here
Yes, especially that one shotting nonsense one. Laxus can't even one shot alverzec Mirajane, gajeel or gray
I am not discrediting anything. You are expert in that. I am simply saying laxus wasn't shown completely superior to Wahl because of those things. Those things kinda made the fight unclean
Springgan might be dirt to natsu. But not to laxus.
-Alright
-Was he shocked? Not really? He didn't really have any reaction. He just slowly.... talked... and asked what the magic was, he didn't really mind being hit by it.
-So? None of us recognized it either. Didnt mention being weak to lightning, quite the opposite.
-Because hes not strong enough. Laxus can fly circles around him while dying and simultaneously making runes.
-Why would Laxus having no moves to hurt him mean Wahl had the chance to block? Asspulling doesn't matter, still Laxus's strength.
-Except he literally did oneshot a spriggan, just like Jellal, just like Natsu, they were hyped as dirt to Laxus and they were proven as dirt to Laxus.
-You are, and you have to invent bullshit like Wahl being able to see strengths to do so.
-No, they are dirt to Laxus, and the funny thing is, you know this. I remember you going on a whole rant at how Mashima made spriggans look like trash because of Laxus's fight, how bullshit it was that while dying he could still beat Wahl. Spriggans are dirt to Laxus, dirt to Jellal, dirt to Natsu and we both know it.
Ok, Laxus casually almost killed Ajeel. As explained by the leader and strongest Spriggan August. Prove August wrong.
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Gray hasn’t seen Laxus for over a year. So how does this contradict any of what’s been mentioned in any way? Especially when he immediately showed up and almost murders one of the mages she expressly stated is just as powerful as her.
Nothing was reinvented. You people just like to ignore things that don't hype laxus to the level you want him to be.
Wahl was never empowered. Wahl can't keep lightning in his body. He redirects it to attack laxus. That is how he is immune to lightning.
And laxus was fed lightning and Wahl did miss an attack on laxus, even though Wahl could hit the guild from how many miles away. And yes, Wahl was completely unguarded when Laxus a$$pulled his red lightning thing
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Yes there was alot of suggestions that laxus improved alot to match erza. Literally mentioned in the manga. But alas
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Not like wahl.
Machines have error, when they come into a scenario which they are not programmed for.
Something else was also in the manga. That runes take time to make. And they can be rewrite. Laxus shouldn't have time to write rune, and wahl should have seen him do it. And rewrite the rune himself. Instead of using negation thing on it
Nobody has ignored anything at all. You continue to argue your own headcannon of events as facts, and there are currently 3-4 other dedicated fans calling you on it. Ok, so now let’s play the provide it game. Show me him redirecting the lightning as opposed to absorbing it to power himself directly as he himself described in the manga.
Now show me where in this battle he redirects lightning to do something else?
Yes, Laxus had a regular shounen hero, power of emotion, unlock new ability moment. After a solid year of training and growing stronger, he unlocked a new ability in response to his situation in the middle of battle, the moment his body was healed of the affliction that had been killing him. We’ve already acknowledged that. Yet you keep trying to argue that Wahl was just unguarded, as though he wasn’t having a mental breakdown because he miscalculated how strong Laxus was and got completely played by him. The mans last ditch effort, based on how the fight was going was to use Etherion. Which the afterword and anime both make clear was a full powered version of the spell.
Please also provide an example of them saying he caught up to Erza, or an example of anyone implying Erza is stronger than him, other than Erza. I mean even the master was doubtful of their chances against him back during the original BOFT. Cause you’ve been provided with several instances In series that make it clear he’s stronger than she is in several different consecutive arcs. With statements and feats to match. So if you could provide those objective moments, instead of using the same panels to argue Erza’s wrong assumptions as truth.
Wall is no different, yet Freed managed to write runes on a boat in a short amount of time, Laxus should be able to do the same thing, Wall was focused on killing Laxus, and Laxus was moving around everywhere, nothing was stated that Wall can rewrite runes like Level or the Thunder Legion can, it would be much simpler to cancel it out in that situation.
Well since BoF both Makarov and Mystogen have said that Erza could challenge Laxus, and with her able to trade blows and react to his lightning at point blank range it is a rather given, even Erza was not at full power too when she went up against Hades and Yet Laxus was, both have gotten Stronger since then, not really sure about Jura or even Tartaros, even Natsu was pretty much Hades level at that point.
What put Erza at Hades level. Natsu wasn’t that level until he received literally all of Laxus magic, to the point he still has the form to use. So what puts Erza on that tier?
They all had a reaction to how easily Laxus dealt with Ajeel. It just wasn’t surprised because it’s what they expect of Laxus. It’s right there in the conversation. Why would they be afraid of their big brother coming to save them? Would you shit your pants if your family showed Up to fight on your behalf?
Dimaria and Brandish are more likely to win against Laxus or Jellal than otherwise. Even if Laxus Red Lighting Mode surpasses their PM, he needs to activate it, Dimaria can stop time before that. She can use Take Over God Cronos and cast Age Scratching on him a lot of times before makes the time flow again or use her beam to rip through his head. Brandish just by looking can enlarge organs...
I'm 100% sure that Jellal and Laxus can fight well and win against most of the Spriggans, but the user of hax, except Jacob, has advantaged because they can win with few movements.
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About Diabolos X Spriggans: the Spriggans are stronger right now, but with Dragon Force Diabolos may be stronger. Suzaku can be a high-level Spriggan even in his base, but Madmole, Skullrion, and Kyria aren't as strong as Dimaria, Invel, God Serena, Brandish. The problem with Suzaku X Selene is to know how much the Dragon Slaying factor helped Suzaku. I mean, Erza with DS magic could cut through Irene's dragon skin, isn't it better than defeat human Selene? Human Selene is stronger than dragon Irene?
If Jellal had being enchanted with DS factor, would have this attack damaged Acnologia?
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We all can agree that even if Laxus was at a very disadvantage against Wall Eehto, Wall did miss the attack that burned the sky, Wall did use lighting against Laxus, recovering him, and Laxues needed to create red lighting from the ass to win. If Laxus wasn't poisoned by anti-etherano, the fight would still be hard for him because Wall showed that can tank his physical force and lighting overall doesn't hurt the Spriggan so...
Dimaria and Brandish are more likely to win against Laxus or Jellal than otherwise. Even if Laxus Red Lighting Mode surpasses their PM, he needs to activate it, Dimaria can stop time before that. She can use Take Over God Cronos and cast Age Scratching on him a lot of times before makes the time flow again or use her beam to rip through his head. Brandish just by looking can enlarge organs...
I'm 100% sure that Jellal and Laxus can fight well and win against most of the Spriggans, but the user of hax, except Jacob, has advantaged because they can win with few movements.
About Diabolos X Spriggans: the Spriggans are stronger right now, but with Dragon Force Diabolos may be stronger. Suzaku can be a high-level Spriggan even in his base, but Madmole, Skullrion, and Kyria aren't as strong as Dimaria, Invel, God Serena, Brandish. The problem with Suzaku X Selene is to know how much the Dragon Slaying factor helped Suzaku. I mean, Erza with DS magic could cut through Irene's dragon skin, isn't it better than defeat human Selene? Human Selene is stronger than dragon Irene?
If Jellal had being enchanted with DS factor, would have this attack damaged Acnologia?
DS magic doesn't have the same advantage it has against dragon forms, against human forms. Or else Natsu and Gajeel would be one shotting each other lmao. I suppose it is better than normal magic against DS/dragons in human form, but Selene would have the same advantage against Suzaku too.
Even human Selene outright stated that Suzaku is stronger than her. Anyway you look at it, unless there is some retcon later on, Suzaku is human Selene tier, which is close to human Acno level. He destroys the Spriggans.
One shotting a much stronger Natsu and Erza than what Spriggans faced in x792 already puts him far superior to any Spriggan. None of the Spriggans have the means to deal with his speed and attack power
No it wouldn't. It would be as effective as Laxus' attack was to Zirconis in GMG, which is nothing. Jellal is an insect to Acno even with DS magic
We all can agree that even if Laxus was at a very disadvantage against Wall Eehto, Wall did miss the attack that burned the sky, Wall did use lighting against Laxus, recovering him, and Laxues needed to create red lighting from the ass to win. If Laxus wasn't poisoned by anti-etherano, the fight would still be hard for him because Wall showed that can tank his physical force and lighting overall doesn't hurt the Spriggan so...
Funny how you make excuses for Neinhart doing the same when Jellal powered up.
Also, like @GL_Nova said, why would they get scared at their allies' magic power? That makes no sense. They didn't even get scared at Gildarts' magic power, cause the dude is an ally.
Also, Gray got scared at Brandish's magic because it's the first time he sensed that much MP. He didn't get scared at Ajeel's or Invel's MP, which are comparable.
Age Scratch doesn't deal damage. What it does is make you feel the pain of all the damage you've ever taken. It's actually completely useless when you combo it with age seal, because the target is stuck in time and won't feel anything until time moves for them again.
Diabolos, as a guild, is stronger with or without Dragon Force. They have 4 Suzaku level mages, each of which are stronger than Selene's human form.
The real reason why people think Laxus can oneshot Ajeel is because August thought Laxus' attack would kill Ajeel. It has nothing to do with Ajeel being shocked or whatever. Being surprised by an attack means nothing.
Wall absorbs lightning and uses it for power. He explained it against the Raijinshu. Wall doesn't have a weakness to lightning anymore. Even if he did, it wouldn't matter. Machines are only vulnerable to electricity in the sense that they have circuitry and wires that is vulnerable to getting fried. Laxus' attack is physically smashing Wall to pieces. Whether or not Wall's circuits are getting fried is largely irrelevant. He's simply not tanking that attack.
I don't agree with that. Mirajane is praised by her MP and Brandish easily used her magic on her. When Brandish showed up for the first that, Gray's statement indicated that Brandish's MP >> Erza's. Even so, Neinhart praised Erza's MP during their fight, so Neinhart praising (or being surprised by) someone's MP doesn't indicate that the person has a higher MP than Dimaria or Brandish. Anyway, If it wasn't stated that Jellal and Laxus' MP became much stronger during 1 year, Brandish and Dimaria's magic still working on them.
DS magic doesn't have the same advantage it has against dragon forms, against human forms. Or else Natsu and Gajeel would be one shotting each other lmao. I suppose it is better than normal magic against DS/dragons in human form, but Selene would have the same advantage against Suzaku too.
Even human Selene outright stated that Suzaku is stronger than her. Anyway you look at it, unless there is some retcon later on, Suzaku is human Selene tier, which is close to human Acno level. He destroys the Spriggans.
One shotting a much stronger Natsu and Erza than what Spriggans faced in x792 already puts him far superior to any Spriggan. None of the Spriggans have the means to deal with his speed and attack power
But a dragon in human form is still at more disadvantage against Dragon Slayer magic than a Dragon Slayer, right? I mean, a dragon in human form is a complete dragon just changing its form, it doesn't make sense that they're treated just like DS mages who never became a complete dragon.
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I don't see that way because the dragon form is stronger than the human form, so If Erza can damage a dragon to the extent of undoing the dragon form, she can damage pretty bad the human form too. Neither do I see a much stronger Erza or Natsu either because Natsu was in base, and Erza destroying Deus Sema and cutting Irene's dragon skin still better than anything that she did in this 100 YQ mission, she wasn't fighting in this way when she was defeated by Suzaku. We didn't see Irene really trying to fight against Acnologia, and she is the only one that could have the same/similar compatibility as/with Suzaku to fight a dragon. Human Acnologia said that Irene's "magic power is impressive".
Acnologia is a worse threat than Selene too, he eats magics, nullifying it. I can't see even the dragon gods being a good match for him. I think their level of destruction and power overall are matched, but I don't see how they would be a threat to him if Acnologia can eat/nullify their magic and the opposite doesn't happen. So I put Suzaku close to Irene and August for now, but since Irene could oneshot Nebaru in his initial dragon form, I don't know if Suzaku is stronger than her. I mean, Suzaku even without DF is stronger than Nebaru with DF?
And the thing with Suzaku that I see is: when the enemy is faster (a little fast or much fast) is common for the subject to be pressed by his speed, which doesn't mean that the subject will not be able to keep with it as the fight is kept in progress or when met the same enemy one second time. For instance, I can say that Kagura blitzed Erza with different armors, but, at the end of the fight, Erza was able to put a speed higher than Kagura's speed and defeat her. Makarov said that he couldn't see "with the eyes" Erzas's movements. Since August was able to fight back even when he had a hole in his body, I don't think that be cut by Suzaku because he is ''too fast" would stop him to fight. The same for Irene. So even if they begun pressed by Suzaku speed, they could adapt to the fight, they can use magic to increase their speed, for example, etc. Thus I don't see Suzaku superiority related to August and Irene.
No it wouldn't. It would be as effective as Laxus' attack was to Zirconis in GMG, which is nothing. Jellal is an insect to Acno even with DS magic
Nope, considering just that Laxus wasn't sick. The fight would be hard.
And Wall has his merits of endurance, because he could be immune to light but not be capable to endure Laxus physical attacks (and so he would be defeated soon), but he is capable of enduring. This kind of attack only uses lighting to improve the speed and help the physical performance, Laxus kicked Wall, and the strength of the kick destroyed 3 floors:
Wall endure it easily, and it's not easy to find an enemy who hits harder than Laxus.
Age Scratch doesn't deal damage. What it does is make you feel the pain of all the damage you've ever taken. It's actually completely useless when you combo it with age seal, because the target is stuck in time and won't feel anything until time moves for them again.
Diabolos, as a guild, is stronger with or without Dragon Force. They have 4 Suzaku level mages, each of which are stronger than Selene's human form.
Okay about Age Scratch, but Dimaria has her beams to pierce Laxus' head.
I will wait until seeing the other 3 Suzaku level mages and their abilities first because they can be proper fights as Suzaku or hax-magic users and if they use hax, it will depend on how the hax works to measure them against Irene and August.
Well, considering Serena was used as hype tool for Acno, no. Mashima doesn't write with solely Laxus on the mind you know? The dude is a secondary character.
If you want to ignore the obvious portrayal of Laxus almost one shotting Ajeel, and him being double nerfed against Wahl, you do you lmao. It's not like your mind is going to change from anyone.
you are putting constraints on mishma ability to handle laxus.
i have no problem changing my mind. that is why i have repeated said you are ignoring stuffs in silly projections. i never said wahl>laxus
Actually no, Eileen wouldn't give Laxus the same treatment. Laxus would perform better than Erza, against both human and dragon form. The only reason he'd get no diff'd by August is because of magic immunity.
END has curse power, which is substitute of MP. Same shit, if you're strong enough, you resist hax.
Why would Gray mention Laxus when he hasn't even met Laxus until that point since timeskip?
gray could have mentioned it like right on the ship after laxus nuke.
you mean to say, in future we might have portrayal where gray gets shocked and say 'wow that guy hits harder than lucy'
they compared the mp with the highest mp they have ever wittness a human has. anyone above that mp caused the same reaction. laxus was not included.
i am talking about your double standard and your inablity to see when you are wrong.
you think
erza=human eileen
thus ds erza one shots dragon eileen
predicting from here
if suzaku>=<selene
suzakua should one dragon selene too.
Yea, Jellal flexed his MP. If you don't like "flex", Jellal powered up and scared Neinhart, happy? And then used GC. Just like gray got scared at Brandish's MP, Neinhart got scared at Jellal's MP. Not really hard dude
Unguarded? How? The dude was in combat mode. At best you could treat it as off guard attack/blitz. Since Wahl didn't bother countering the attack.
What weakness to lightning? I keep hearing this a lot, but not sure where the idea that Wahl is weak to lightning came from. If you can provide me a scan for it, I'll agree that this isn't as impressive as I claim it to be.
he was laughing his ass off. his hands were wide open. eve levy would blitz him.
sigh!
machina are weak to lightning. that was mentioned when freed ichiya faught fake wahl. we later found out that wahl overcame it by redirecting lightning. wahl couldnt recognize red lightning and thus couldnt redirect it. indeed his AI mentioned not recognizing red lightning instead of power overload or something.
overloading would indeed had made pof laxus clear superior to wahl
but that wasnt a fight. runes are super strong. but they have a weakness, they cant be used in mid fight. that was established long ago. with runes freed can even handle prime markarov
-Alright
-Was he shocked? Not really? He didn't really have any reaction. He just slowly.... talked... and asked what the magic was, he didn't really mind being hit by it.
-So? None of us recognized it either. Didnt mention being weak to lightning, quite the opposite.
-Because hes not strong enough. Laxus can fly circles around him while dying and simultaneously making runes.
-Why would Laxus having no moves to hurt him mean Wahl had the chance to block? Asspulling doesn't matter, still Laxus's strength.
-Except he literally did oneshot a spriggan, just like Jellal, just like Natsu, they were hyped as dirt to Laxus and they were proven as dirt to Laxus.
-You are, and you have to invent bullshit like Wahl being able to see strengths to do so.
-No, they are dirt to Laxus, and the funny thing is, you know this. I remember you going on a whole rant at how Mashima made spriggans look like trash because of Laxus's fight, how bullshit it was that while dying he could still beat Wahl. Spriggans are dirt to Laxus, dirt to Jellal, dirt to Natsu and we both know it.
-he was. his expression was like ajeel. and he started asking her name.
-erm machina are weak to lightning. its something in the manga. not made up, like you make weaknesses. wahl immunity works as long as he can redirect lightning. if he cant, he goes boom
-no he cant, what you are refering to is an asspull. did even freed manage to put runes around the battle field so gray cant even punch back.
-that strength wasnt putting wahl down. wahl was still immune to laxus powers. you yourself are saying with pof laxus one shot wahl. in other words, you thing laxus punches did nothing significant to wahl
-he didnt.
-dude wahl did a full analysis on laxus, including his mp. if you want to see invented bs, look at your old posts, you will find many
-not like that. when we got their huge mp hype. i wanted them to show that by showing a single average springgan destroying markarov+gildarts togther. to create suspense. my problem is both erza and laxus end up fighting springgans who were immune to their magic. it should have been the other way around. for me springgans not living up to the hype is that they are around laxus tier.
how is that bs. how bs is that erza without any senses can beat enhanced koyoka. mard is dirt to tartarus erza. how bs is that azuma with all the powres of fairy tail lost to erza, no doubt bluenote is dirt to tenrou erza
Nobody has ignored anything at all. You continue to argue your own headcannon of events as facts, and there are currently 3-4 other dedicated fans calling you on it. Ok, so now let’s play the provide it game. Show me him redirecting the lightning as opposed to absorbing it to power himself directly as he himself described in the manga.
Now show me where in this battle he redirects lightning to do something else?
Yes, Laxus had a regular shounen hero, power of emotion, unlock new ability moment. After a solid year of training and growing stronger, he unlocked a new ability in response to his situation in the middle of battle, the moment his body was healed of the affliction that had been killing him. We’ve already acknowledged that. Yet you keep trying to argue that Wahl was just unguarded, as though he wasn’t having a mental breakdown because he miscalculated how strong Laxus was and got completely played by him. The mans last ditch effort, based on how the fight was going was to use Etherion. Which the afterword and anime both make clear was a full powered version of the spell.
Please also provide an example of them saying he caught up to Erza, or an example of anyone implying Erza is stronger than him, other than Erza. I mean even the master was doubtful of their chances against him back during the original BOFT. Cause you’ve been provided with several instances In series that make it clear he’s stronger than she is in several different consecutive arcs. With statements and feats to match. So if you could provide those objective moments, instead of using the same panels to argue Erza’s wrong assumptions as truth.
i dont understand what you are saying
your panel and one before that says, that machina are weak to lightning. wahl overcame it by converting lightning. how is wahl converting something he has never encountered, aka red lightning.
redirect or convert. my point is, wahl has to do something with lightning or he will be super weak to it.
irrevant. can laxus one shot springgan having a mental breakdown, yes. and lucy can also one shot august having a mental breakdown. this good example surprise attack.
so you are saying you know more than erza?
yes markarov did not know who would win erza or laxus so obviously he was doubtful.
no there hasnt been.
hades is one example. but a horrible. basically you want fresh person to be compared to wrecked person and say the fresh one is more powerful. and gray statement one, but erza was literally shown doing what gray said.
other than that, there has been no portrayal of laxus above erza. with such a weak proof, one can easily say difference between laxus and erza might be very little, with laxus with slight edge.
but erza statement in the recent chapters clearly show laxus improved alot. this left wankers to say look even ds seal is a significant powerup
Wall absorbs lightning and uses it for power. He explained it against the Raijinshu. Wall doesn't have a weakness to lightning anymore. Even if he did, it wouldn't matter. Machines are only vulnerable to electricity in the sense that they have circuitry and wires that is vulnerable to getting fried. Laxus' attack is physically smashing Wall to pieces. Whether or not Wall's circuits are getting fried is largely irrelevant. He's simply not tanking that attack.
yes wahl is, if he cant convert it.
that is basically the difference between normal machina and wahl (other than the huge mp) that he converts lightning and thus becomes immune to it. if he cant covert it, then he is super weak to it. red lightning
Okay about Age Scratch, but Dimaria has her beams to pierce Laxus' head.
I will wait until seeing the other 3 Suzaku level mages and their abilities first because they can be proper fights as Suzaku or hax-magic users and if they use hax, it will depend on how the hax works to measure them against Irene and August.
-he was. his expression was like ajeel. and he started asking her name.
-erm machina are weak to lightning. its something in the manga. not made up, like you make weaknesses. wahl immunity works as long as he can redirect lightning. if he cant, he goes boom
-no he cant, what you are refering to is an asspull. did even freed manage to put runes around the battle field so gray cant even punch back.
-that strength wasnt putting wahl down. wahl was still immune to laxus powers. you yourself are saying with pof laxus one shot wahl. in other words, you thing laxus punches did nothing significant to wahl
-he didnt.
-dude wahl did a full analysis on laxus, including his mp. if you want to see invented bs, look at your old posts, you will find many
-not like that. when we got their huge mp hype. i wanted them to show that by showing a single average springgan destroying markarov+gildarts togther. to create suspense. my problem is both erza and laxus end up fighting springgans who were immune to their magic. it should have been the other way around. for me springgans not living up to the hype is that they are around laxus tier.
how is that bs. how bs is that erza without any senses can beat enhanced koyoka. mard is dirt to tartarus erza. how bs is that azuma with all the powres of fairy tail lost to erza, no doubt bluenote is dirt to tenrou erza
-No. Mashima gave a huge panel showing Ajeel's terror and had August tell us he was an inch away from death. Acno showed pretty much no emotion
-Not Wahl, this is specifically stated over and over again, it was designed to make Laxus's fight harder, just like the MBPs and that's what it did.
-Yes... he can... he literally did it in the fight. As for Freed, he's not as fast or powerful as Laxus or Gray, nowhere close.
-It was with Red Lightning.
-So? Everyone and their mother can scan MP lmao, this doesn't mean Wahl knows Laxus is a DS. Show a single panel of Wahl seeing strengths. Do it.
-No, you called Erza's fight with Ajeel good and you said Laxus's fight was BS because "No one should be trashing a villain like that"
-You still going on with that Kyoka>Mard thing lmao? Erza beating Kyoka extreme diff doesn't mean Mard is trash to her, that's retarded. Same with the Bluenote thing.
sigh!
machina are weak to lightning. that was mentioned when freed ichiya faught fake wahl. we later found out that wahl overcame it by redirecting lightning. wahl couldnt recognize red lightning and thus couldnt redirect it. indeed his AI mentioned not recognizing red lightning instead of power overload or something.
overloading would indeed had made pof laxus clear superior to wahl
This is also something you invented, nowhere is it said that Wahl couldn't redirect Red Lightning, him not recognizing it doesn't implicate that at all, and no callback to Machia's being weak to lightning happened in the chapter. The explanation was simple, lightning beyond even lightning, Laxus overpowered it and Wahl all in one go.
But even if we went by your explanation, if Laxus's Red Lightning is so different to regular lightning that Wahl can't absorb it, why wouldn't it be so different that Wahl is not weak to it? You're trying to have your cake and eat it too, that's not how it works. If Wahl took extra damage from Red Lightning, Mashima would have mentioned it in the chapter. Laxus oneshot him, he either oneshot Wahl through his immunity to lightning, overpowering it, or just oneshot him normally with an attack too different to lightning for it's normal affects to apply to Wahl. Either way, it lines up with August's statement, Laxus oneshotting spriggans is canon.
-No. Mashima gave a huge panel showing Ajeel's terror and had August tell us he was an inch away from death. Acno showed pretty much no emotion
-Not Wahl, this is specifically stated over and over again, it was designed to make Laxus's fight harder, just like the MBPs and that's what it did.
-Yes... he can... he literally did it in the fight. As for Freed, he's not as fast or powerful as Laxus or Gray, nowhere close.
-It was with Red Lightning.
-So? Everyone and their mother can scan MP lmao, this doesn't mean Wahl knows Laxus is a DS. Show a single panel of Wahl seeing strengths. Do it.
-No, you called Erza's fight with Ajeel good and you said Laxus's fight was BS because "No one should be trashing a villain like that"
-You still going on with that Kyoka>Mard thing lmao? Erza beating Kyoka extreme diff doesn't mean Mard is trash to her, that's retarded. Same with the Bluenote thing.
-their expression are similiar. august wasnt near acnologia, so august didnt tell aconologia he was dieing. aconologia showed his shock by asking her name
-wahl overcame lightning by converting it. if he cant recognize it he cant convert it
-he asspulled. freed had two people to distract iceless gray to write one god damn rune. lol
-red lightning is asspull. this argument was, wahl after curing laxus had a mental breakdown. you claimed because he was scared sh!tless. i said why was wahl scared, if wahl nor laxus knew about red lightning
-simple extrapolation from my part. wahl can see inside lungs, can say laxus mp is top tier.
-erza vs ajeel is better than laxus vs wahl. huh did i say that? i generally always meant this
-yes it does. erza beat koyoka senseless. with senses she is easily superior to mard. well if follow your logic that is. laxus beat wahl while dieing. springgan dirt to him. erza beat koyoka without senses, mard is dirt to her. same for bluenote
This is also something you invented, nowhere is it said that Wahl couldn't redirect Red Lightning, him not recognizing it doesn't implicate that at all, and no callback to Machia's being weak to lightning happened in the chapter. The explanation was simple, lightning beyond even lightning, Laxus overpowered it and Wahl all in one go.
if he overpowered it, why didnt Ai mention anything about overloading. how would wahl convert lightning he cant recognize. why did mishma even use recognize.
But even if we went by your explanation, if Laxus's Red Lightning is so different to regular lightning that Wahl can't absorb it, why wouldn't it be so different that Wahl is not weak to it? You're trying to have your cake and eat it too, that's not how it works. If Wahl took extra damage from Red Lightning, Mashima would have mentioned it in the chapter. Laxus oneshot him, he either oneshot Wahl through his immunity to lightning, overpowering it, or just oneshot him normally with an attack too different to lightning for it's normal affects to apply to Wahl. Either way, it lines up with August's statement, Laxus oneshotting spriggans is canon.
because its still lightning. if laxus had said red crap i would have agreed with you.
no its not.
1. wahl weakness is being ignored
2. pof is being ignored
3. wahl having mental breakdown is being ignored
give all this to erza and she one shots aconologia
-their expression are similiar. august wasnt near acnologia, so august didnt tell aconologia he was dieing. aconologia showed his shock by asking her name
-wahl overcame lightning by converting it. if he cant recognize it he cant convert it
-he asspulled. freed had two people to distract iceless gray to write one god damn rune. lol
-red lightning is asspull. this argument was, wahl after curing laxus had a mental breakdown. you claimed because he was scared sh!tless. i said why was wahl scared, if wahl nor laxus knew about red lightning
-simple extrapolation from my part. wahl can see inside lungs, can say laxus mp is top tier.
-erza vs ajeel is better than laxus vs wahl. huh did i say that? i generally always meant this
-yes it does. erza beat koyoka senseless. with senses she is easily superior to mard. well if follow your logic that is. laxus beat wahl while dieing. springgan dirt to him. erza beat koyoka without senses, mard is dirt to her. same for bluenote
-Not at all. The shading alone clearly distinguishes the two scenes. Eileen was there, she could've said Acno would die
-Who says him not recognizing it means he can't convert it?
-Sure, and Laxus is stronger and faster than those three combined, times ten.
-So? And I didn't say he was scared shitless, though he certainly should've been.
-Why would that mean he can see strengths? Cause he has Xray vision lmao? No. He can't do it, he has no feats for it. You're just giving him the ability.
-You said it was good, yes and I agree.
-Kyoka took Erza's senses lmao, the fact that she couldn't prevent that doesn't mean she was handicapped, it means Kyoka was too powerful for Erza to stop, thus the fight ended high diff.
Laxus on the other hand was dying when he went into the battle, and Mashima specifically went out of his way not only to set this up earlier, but also rant about it over and over during the fight. So yeah, spriggans are dirt to Laxus, he can beat them while on his death bed. Erza on the other hand? Went into the fight with her senses, then lost them due to how powerful the enemy was.
if he overpowered it, why didnt Ai mention anything about overloading. how would wahl convert lightning he cant recognize. why did mishma even use recognize.
because its still lightning. if laxus had said red crap i would have agreed with you.
The narration took care of it for him. Lightning beyond lightning. Not lightning too difficult to absorb, not lightning too hard to redirect, lightning that is beyond lightning. It's beyond Wahl, that's why it killed him.
If it's still lightning then Wahl is still immune to it, because Wahl is immune to lightning. There's no way around this, if it's different enough to lightning that Wahl isnt immune to it, then there's no reason for him to be weak to it either, nothing about it was mentioned.
no its not.
1. wahl weakness is being ignored
2. pof is being ignored
3. wahl having mental breakdown is being ignored
give all this to erza and she one shots aconologia
It is. This is from the manga, not me.
1. Yes, because it canonically doesn't exist, he is immune to lightning.
2. Why would PoF matter? Every fight has PoF. Laxus vs Jura had PoF, Erza vs Minerva had PoF, Gray vs Rufus had PoF. This is the Fairy Tail way.
3. As it should be, PiS happens in every fight in the manga. You think Jacob couldn't have clapped his hands when Natsu was flying at him?
No, she doesn't. She can't even oneshot Eileen and she had all of this and more.
@sharkai it doesn matter, Freed was fast enough to create them when the test started, correction, not good when it comes to “sudden” battles, it is good for laying traps which is what Laxus did.
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@GL_Nova Erza was not at peak condition or magic power since her battle with Azuma, it wasn’t about Natsu at all, I am talking about after the time skip, even Laxus was not at Hades tier then either.
@sharkai it doesn matter, Freed was fast enough to create them when the test started, correction, not good when it comes to “sudden” battles, it is good for laying traps which is what Laxus did.
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@GL_Nova Erza was not at peak condition or magic power since her battle with Azuma, it wasn’t about Natsu at all, I am talking about after the time skip, even Laxus was not at Hades tier then either.
Erza and the rest had time to regroup, and as has been shown throughout it doesn’t take days or hours to recoup magic power. In addition to Wendy using her regular spells on them to amp them during the fight. So what suggests she was also on the same tier as Bluenote and the rest when she struggled with Azuma?
An Laxus had enough power to force Hades to rely on his makeshift heart during the Tenrou Island. Hades already established that it took someone of Bluenotes caliber to make him exert himself.
Erza and the rest had time to regroup, and as has been shown throughout it doesn’t take days or hours to recoup magic power. In addition to Wendy using her regular spells on them to amp them during the fight. So what suggests she was also on the same tier as Bluenote and the rest when she struggled with Azuma?
An Laxus had enough power to force Hades to rely on his makeshift heart during the Tenrou Island. Hades already established that it took someone of Bluenotes caliber to make him exert himself.
It does take hours or so to recoup one's magic, such as with Lucy used up almost all of her magic power and had taken hours to recover most of it, they have little time between points to rest after Erza's battle and before their fight with Hades, that is the thing, amping doesn't really mean it compensates for one's own tired physical condition, Azuma had the power of Tenrou Island which really sets him apart from most of Grimoire Heart. Laxus did not even make Hades use his make shift heart until Natsu got both Laxus' magic and his own. Do not recall him saying that, he simply said that it's been a long time since someone hit him that hard.
