Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

Which side are you on?

  • Team Spriggan 12

    Votes: 48 51.6%
  • Team Diabolos/Dragon Eaters

    Votes: 45 48.4%

  • Total voters
    93

Darklord#10

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Merchphobia wasn't even at full power but he survived a full on assault from team natsu. Dogramag isn't full power and yet selene concluded that he's unbeatable. Seriously saying a dragon god was weakened is a very flawed logic. A weakened dragon god can destroy any character bar dragon god tier characters. This is absolutely insane. This is the exact reason why Hiro shouldn't be answering questions like this some people start getting very flawed ideas
 

Raven

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Ill logic is ignoring canonical portrayal and making up fantasy situations that aren't in line with how the plot works. Anytime Natsu gets stronger, other members of FT get stronger as well.
There is no such thing called canonical portrayal in power scaling, Characters scales with feats and only feats not portrayal, Thats how power scaling works, If nothing changes then the whole power scaling is pointless since it would be constant.
 

Raven

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That's not how story's work. Author intention decides where the characters sit in power, especially in a series where the majority of characters aren't even getting screentime in most arcs. This is the same kind of backwards logic that led some people to believe that Erza was significantly stronger than Laxus before their fight in Draseel. "Well we haven't seen Laxus do anything for a while and Erza got a new ability so she's obviously stronger". The series doesn't work like that. This is why there's such a huge disconnect between how you guys view the series and what the author actually says. You ignore trends in the series and even direct statements from Mashima and then start scratching your head when a character does something that doesn't fit your made up power scale. Real power scaling only works in the framework of the canonical portrayals in the series. If feats were the only thing that mattered then Ikusatsunagi would stronger than Zeref lol.
You obviously don't know what you are typing or you are just a gray fanboy who can't be reasoned with. Natsu vs Bluenote 2 ended up in one shot, Bluenote was dominating him before and things changed. No one believed that Erza was significantly stronger than Laxus, It was the other way around, Regardless Laxus always had feats that made him maintain his position in power ranking.

What is Ikusatsunagi feats to begin with? He is just another fodder that got oneshotted by Natsu in base, and Zeref at least didn't get oneshotted, And actually absorbed DF attacks from Natsu.
 

Raven

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You're willfully ignoring the point lol. Author intention decides these things. It was Mashima's intention for Natsu to surpass Bluenote and that's why he became stronger. Mashima intention for Gray is to be as strong as Natsu. And there were multiple people that believed Erza was stronger because she appeared more. Same with Natsu vs Gajeel. People thought Natsu would wash him in base but in truth they were portrayed as nearly equal in their dual element modes. Same way people so many people here think the Spriggans have been eclipsed in power and Gildarts has been surpassed even though the Author himself says repeatedly that the power balance hasn't changed much since the original series.

Ikusatsunagi's multi mountain cut is feat wise better than any attack that that Zeref has produced. Zeref also was obliterated by an attack that was only 3 times stronger than the attack that beat Ikusatsunagi (though I'm sure he let that happen). The only reason Zeref is seen as so much stronger than him is because of his portrayal that says he is. Natsu with Igneels mark doesn't have any feats above what he did to Ikusatsunagi or even what he did against the soldiers. But the story tells us that he was stronger at the time so Zeref taking those attacks means he's stronger than Ikusatsunagi. Statements and portrayal do the Lionshare of work in power scaling most of the time. And the direct statement about Gray's power is that he's equal to Natsu. Ignoring author statements and even in series statements because they aren't in line with your feelings isn't how scaling should be done.
It is backed up by feats thats how we know he is stronger than bluenote not just holding to unproved statements, I don't question his intention, I question his writing which goes against his intention. Gray didn't pull any feats that even make him close to Natsu, Its simple as that. You can pull Mashima's statement anytime you want but its unproved in the manga. Dance around it as you wish, You still won't prove it.

Absolutely not, Pretty much everyone who ain't Erza fanboy had Laxus wining it, but the fact still remains that he always had feats making him updated in the power ranking, unlike Gray who don't have those feats to back up any statements.

AOE attacks isn't everything, Power and durability are also included. Natsu could only use the mark onetime and he used it against Zeref not Ikusatsunagi or the soldiers.
 

Raven

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There is no canon, since there is no feats.

Believe what makes you happy, Not interested in talking more to unreasonable fanboys.
 

Darklord#10

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What would have been interesting is if we had natsu vs gray in the fight tournament. We would have absolutely debated this topic. I myself will argue tirelessly. Honestly this is simple scaling it's not really hard. Gray got wasted by skullion and had a high diff fight with worn-out Mira who stalemated skullion. Skullion did not consider gray a threat at all, skullion and madmolle absolutely got destroyed by laxus like it was a no diff fight. Let's not forget according to gray nothing can work on Mira but skullion stalemated her meaning somehow he was able to damage her Mira was even uncertain how the fight would have gone if they continued. Gray considered suzaku as someone who they couldn't beat when he blitz natsu and erza, Erza considers suzaku as someone powerful beyond reason. All the dark dragon knights scale to suzaku. Wendy laxus Erza and natsu had an extreme diff fight with the ddsk. From all of this I just can't see anything putting gray on ddsk level. Let's say gray fought suzaku and we gave environmental advantage would he be able to tie with suzaku? That's my question
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Imagine thinking the author can't decide the canon facts of the series they write.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



Dogramag and Aldoron were both slightly weakened from their long slumber. But it wasn't until they got nerfed further that Natsu could actually match them. Your contention that Dragon Gods are always "dragon god tier" regardless of how nerfed they are is pretty silly considering that Dogramag is now nerfed so much that base Natsu is doing damage to him. The only flawed idea is you thinking Natsu in any capacity is DG tier when up to this point he's only been able to fight them when they are nerfed to his level.
If nerfed dragon god can be handled by high tier why couldn't they do anything to merchphobia. Merchphobia wasn't even using half of his power and he was pulling shit. Dog is the weakest god dragon and he's nerfed but selene said no human can possibly beat him.
 

Darklord#10

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I'm seriously in the mood for this debate. I can stand for Erza and laxus being stronger than natsu but as for gray that's no
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Because Merphobia wasn't nerfed as much. Do you have it your head that all nerfs are equal? Current dogramag is getting whopped by base Natsu when before him and Suzaku couldn't even scratch him.
Merchphobia wasn't even using his powers, what are you even saying if anything aldoron was the one with a little nerf he himself said he was somewhat weakened but merchphobia wasn't even using 50% of his power and team natsu got their ass whooped
 

LaGOAT

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Aldoron was nerfed so hard that he couldn't even do much damage to base Natsu with his punches. Most of the high tiers in the guild would have been able to beat Aldoron in that state.
Lol what natsu needed df to beat him even when aldron is nerf what r u talking a about bro lol
 

Darklord#10

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Honestly I'm surprised people will go to any lengths to debunk natsu 😂😂😂😂 this is absolutely absurd
 

Darklord#10

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That's nice. Base Natsu still tanked attacks from him.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---


Aldoron wasn't at full power from jump since he had just woken up but he got nerfed even further. Aldoron's statement just meant that even though he lost power it was still enough to beat Natsu. He then got nerfed again by Giant Gajeel beating down Big Aldoron.
No aldoron said he was somewhat weakened meaning. Merchphobia also wasn't at full power from the beginning he wasn't even using close to fifty percent.
 

LaGOAT

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That's nice. Base Natsu still tanked attacks from him.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---


Aldoron wasn't at full power from jump since he had just woken up but he got nerfed even further. Aldoron's statement just meant that even though he lost power it was still enough to beat Natsu. He then got nerfed again by Giant Gajeel beating down Big Aldoron.
That’s doesn’t the fact he needed df natsu to beat him lol and ur saying that gray=df natsu
 

Shoutmon

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Ok and? The opponent he was fighting was still nerfed to the point that he could keep up in base mode. Natsu only needed DF when forest of swords came out as that couldn't be burned with normal fire. And I've been saying for a while that people massively over rate the boost in power he gets with DF. Zeref letting Natsu blow him up and the assumption that nerfed dragon gods are still dg tier caused people to think that dragon force puts Natsu in some upper echelon of power that nobody else can reach. In actuality his dragon force gives him about the same boost in stats as it did against mard geer and the only difference with Aldoron is he had a new secret art. Any high tier at their strongest could replicate Natsu's victory.
Didn't all the high-tiers (excluding Gildarts) stand there in total awe and shock/surprise at Natsu's victory? Natsu with his franken-flames was even strong enough to get someone like Aldoron to start wanking him as a potential world ending calamity. Do you think that Erza or Laxus would be strong enough to get something like that out of him?

Speaking of Erza, isn't she portrayed to be equal to Mirajane in the same way that Gray is portrayed to be Natsu's equal? The same Erza who's close in power with Laxus, who casually neg-diffed the opponents who were giving Mirajane a hard time?

I get that Mashima stated that Gray = Natsu, and I understand your position that portrayal plays a huge part in powerscaling (which it does), but when portrayal goes against what's happening in the manga, then it should imo be disregarded until further notice.

Take Natsu vs Gray for example. They are supposedly 'equal' with Gray's Demon mode being his equivalent to Natsu's FDK mode (which, correct me if I'm wrong, was your assertion the last time we had this argument). The problem is that Natsu has DF (which he can enter at will) and his merged dragon flames (which caused Aldoron to start wanking him), both stronger than FDKM, while Gray's highest form is only equivalent to FDKM, ergo, Gray can't be Natsu's equal purely because he doesn't have a powerup past his Demon mode.

Mashima's statement goes against what we see + the logic/powerscale (or what's left of it) established in the actual manga, and it makes people (or at least myself) not take the powerscaling seriously at all.
 

LaGOAT

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Ok and? The opponent he was fighting was still nerfed to the point that he could keep up in base mode. Natsu only needed DF when forest of swords came out as that couldn't be burned with normal fire. And I've been saying for a while that people massively over rate the boost in power he gets with DF. Zeref letting Natsu blow him up and the assumption that nerfed dragon gods are still dg tier caused people to think that dragon force puts Natsu in some upper echelon of power that nobody else can reach. In actuality his dragon force gives him about the same boost in stats as it did against mard geer and the only difference with Aldoron is he had a new secret art. Any high tier at their strongest could replicate Natsu's victory.
And? u missing the point natsu needed df to even compete with a nerf aldoron. gray doesn’t have any power that is Equivalent to that. Lol I don’t know why u brought zeref lol but natsu feats against zeref is way better than gray ever did anyways. df natsu>gray at this strongest unless u think gray= Df natsu then idk what to say at this point

@Shoutmon said it perfectly if the protayal contradictions with feats then it doesn’t matter how gray is portray to equal natsu his feats doesn’t support that
 
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sharkai

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Speaking of Erza, isn't she portrayed to be equal to Mirajane in the same way that Gray is portrayed to be Natsu's equal?
no. thats fan made. it was made so that fans can make separate tier for laxus and jellal/mystogan.
kid erza was equal to kid mira. after that, mira was never erza rival.
 

Shoutmon

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They were shocked because the giant dragon suddenly started exploding magic power from all sides. If the others had been in a position to deliver the killing blow to him then yes he'd say they were strong. He was even surprised at how strong the people who defeated the other god seeds were so it goes without saying that'd he'd hold the one who kills him in high regard.


Mirajane was portrayed to rival Erza at her strongest. Mirajane fought Skullion in BSS. Nothing in the manga suggests that Mirajane actually using her full power wouldn't rival Erza using full power. If Erza was struggling or Natsu was struggling with someone in base, we wouldn't dismiss them because we know they have stronger attacks. Not that strength really affected the Skullion thing as everyone that's had trouble with him (Natsu included) has been because of his intangibility and ash hax.

I honestly don't remember you as I rarely pay attention to names on here. But my stance is that magic wise devil slaying magic is equal to fdk and transformation wise demonization is equivalent to dragon force. But forms are only one part of the equation. There's a difference in level of power used in those forms. Natsu is always going all out trying to kill his enemy when he uses DF (since mard geer). It's a last ditch effort for him so he pulls out all the stops and it's usually accompanied with Flame of emotion. Characters that use their transformations more frequently like Erza, Gray, and Wendy don't always use it to the max capability. That's why I said Natsu's feats could be replicated at their strongest. Erza can pull out new fire and ice swords but against a friend she holds back and Laxus could sense this. When she poured all of her magic into an attack, heaven's wheel could match red lightning. And even when comparing to Natsu's new secret art, Gray has recently showcased a move that's stronger than his previous moves. The destruction bow was casually stopped by Hakune but she couldn't do anything about the heavy knights. If Gray or Erza or Laxus were put into situations like Natsu vs Aldoron, we'd see them going all out with their abilities as they'd be trying to kill their opponents.

Nothing really goes against Gray and Natsu being equal to each other in series. It's just bad interpretations of Natsu's overall power and overestimations of his feats. Same with the whole "Spriggans being eclipsed" thing. People just highly overestimate every increase in power we see so they can fling around statements like "X soloes Y", or "Y oneshots X". But going by all his statements, Mashima doesn't view these increases so exponentially. And this should be immediately evident when you realize he setup the series to have multiple arcs where the main antagonists have more or less the same level of power. It's a gradual climb. Even when he setup a potential for exponential increases in power, he shut it down by having Selene be a liar and Suzaku and Natsu getting pwnd by human DG level. Although I suspect that next arc or whatever happens after that (maybe another timeskip) is going to be where we start to see exponential growth again like with the first 2 timeskips.
This isn't a case of him just saying Natsu was strong, though. When Aldoron delivered his famous wank line, there was an air of terror surrounding it. Do you think that Laxus or Erza can strike that fear in Aldoron, the fear that makes him think that they can end the world? I certainly don't, because they had an all out fight in one of his cities and he didn't even make note of their power (with Laxus especially brainwashed to go for the kill).

Yeah, there's no way that Demon Gray is equal to DF Natsu. First, it doesn't make sense. Dragons are >>> Demons in the power hierarchy, so why would a demon force grant an equivalent boost to Dragon Force? Second, Gray really doesn't have any feats to suggest that he's that powerful. Darkness Gary, which was portrayed as the pinnacle of Gray's Demon Powers at the time, curbstomped Invel. He stopped restraining himself as he was furious that the latter seemingly killed Juvia, but all he could manage was a stompfest. DF Natsu, on the other hand, vaporized FH Zeref with one attack. Yes, FH Zeref let him land that demo fist, but the fact still remains that the singular attack in question was strong enough to override FH Zeref's passive defenses and vaporize him (with FH Zeref's passive defenses being > Base Zeref's, which were good enough to easily tank IgNatsu's assault).

The problem is that the story is trying to elevate Natsu to God Tier level, and keep him around his standard level at the same time. Remember that ominous monologue about IgniaNatsu burning the skies, earth and oceans while he was stomping Merc? The monologue that sounded eerily similar to Aldoron's statement about him burning the world? We also have Dogramag ominously foreshadowing Natsu's true power as well (before apparently backtracking on that), not to mention Ignia's desire to have Natsu grow to his level so that they can have a 1v1. The entire 100 year quest seems to try and elevate Natsu to God Tier level, but Mashima's seemingly getting cold feet regarding that. He wants to hype Natsu up as a potential world ender, but he doesn't want everyone from team Natsu to be at that level (or else they'd have gotten that type of hype as well), and because being as strong as/stronger than Natsu is a part of Gray and Erza's characters, he probably doesn't want Natsu to to reach that level on his own or it would be out of character for them.

I have no idea what's gonna happen to the powerscaling when we hit the new arc, but this one in particular has crushed my enthusiasm for it.

no. thats fan made. it was made so that fans can make separate tier for laxus and jellal/mystogan.
kid erza was equal to kid mira. after that, mira was never erza rival.
Weren't there multiple statements in the original manga comparing those 2, though?
 
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Shoutmon

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Aldoron was literally shaking when he realized his seeds were getting killed. Not sure how it doesn't click that the one that directly kills him would strike the most fear in him. Erza and Laxus never even attacked Aldoron so why would he comment on their power?

Not necessarily true as neither is becoming a full demon or dragon and Silver's power was already strong enough to freeze a dragon when Gray inherited it. And what do you mean Gray wasn't restraining? Gray: I could keep punching you but that wouldn't bring Juvia back. He was angry but he wasn't trying to kill Invel (if he was he would just stab him with a blade). And matching END which is much stronger than FDK Natsu is the real feat he had in that state. Gray wasn't even demonized when he beat Invel. Also there is no "passive defense" involved when someone is letting your attack pass. Zeref completely dropped his guard because he wanted to show off his time powers. That's why when Natsu did the soul burning attack that burned much hotter than the previous attack, Only Zeref's arms were burnt.

Those statements are just talking about his potential in the future. The clear indication through all of his encounters, even the ones where he beats the dragon gods is that he's nowhere near god tier. Against Mercphobia he needed a powerup from another dragon god, and his opponent wasn't at full power. Against Aldoron, his opponent had to get nerfed several times in order for Natsu to be able to do anything. Even Ignia's desire for Natsu to grow stronger means that current Natsu is not up to snuff. None of this suggests that the story in anyway is trying to say current Natsu is god level, just that the intention is for him to become that strong later on. Don't confuse the future for the present. Just because the main development isn't happening instantly doesn't mean Mashima is not going to do it. It just hasn't happened yet. If Natsu were to already be God tier, then we'd already be at the end of the series which seems to be a while away.
The point isn't just that Aldoron feared Natsu as he was getting killed. The point is that he saw Natsu as a world-ending threat, and if Erza and Laxus could generate the same level of power, you'd think that Aldoron would be able to sense it or something, or there would be some sort of indication that their power levels were so extreme, but there wasn't. He had a reaction to the other God Seed's deaths because he thought highly of them and was genuinely shocked that they were killed, but as for himself, he had absolutely zero fear for his own life (which makes sense cause he was incomparably more powerful than all of them combined). Heck, it seemed like he was about to make his way to the surface of his own back to go confront everyone after he thought that he had killed Natsu.

Silver froze Atlas' soul, not the actual Atlas flame. We have nothing to concretely suggest that the boost from demon mode is greater relative to DF, especially for how easily/casually it can be activated + how little hype there is around it. Gray wasn't restraining in that he stopped caring for Invel's well being. He wanted to really hurt Invel, yet couldn't end him in one attack (and had calmed down by the time he gave that line). Darkness Gray (which is a powerup that he most likely lost, due to its nature) was touted as the pinnacle of his demon powers, ergo, it would be stronger than normal Gray's demon form (which you believe is = DF Natsu), yet he couldn't down a much weaker opponent than DF Natsu with one attack and with the same level of lethality as what DF Natsu did. There most definitely is a passive defense. Zeref completely dropped his guard when IgNatsu hit him with his semi-final attack, yet he only got scuffed up from that. DF Natsu destroyed the stronger FH Zeref when the latter did the same. Natsu's Savage Flames could just be weaker than his DF flames in terms of raw attack power, but could also be more exotic in nature, which is why it could burn Zeref's time magic to begin with.

I understand that, but the issue is that Natsu isn't progressing at a reasonable pace towards that potential future power. Most Dragon Gods are out of commission, and the latest one (who was way weaker than the rest already) was so far out of Natsu's league that it's not even funny. It seems like Mashima is about to make progress towards elevating Natsu to his potential future power level, but then he just backtracks (the perfect example being what's happening to Dogramag).
 
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LaGOAT

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@Jintohaku bro the fact that gray in his demon slayer mode and lost to skullion also means df natsu would also lose to skullion is mind boggling to me

basically ur saying gray demon Slayer mode=DF natsu lol
 
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Darklord#10

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This is why authors don't go around and start gauging the MC's power. I've said it before Hiro doesn't really know what to do with natsu power wise. In aldoron arc alone natsu scaled to different characters. Gajeel, madmolle who scales to elfman (this doesn't even make sense to begin with). It seems mashima is skeptical of putting natsu on that level which I seriously don't understand, you can put your MC at god tier level and Still have side characters do relevant stuff. Gray with his own mouth said he can't handle a healthy Mira that nothing will work on her but skullion handled her and did something to her, gray got his ass whooped by skullion and needed to be saved by brandish. Natsu fought with suzaku and was able to compete. Gray considers suzaku as someone unbeatable. If you think gray and natsu are equals then that means he should be ddsk tier, Which gray hasn't proved. He's had terrible results against skullion tier characters fucking joke 🤣🤣
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Well as for me once natsu destroys the labyrinth, I think that should settle all this argument.
 

Nie Li

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Well as for me once natsu destroys the labyrinth, I think that should settle all this argument.
It won't. It would if Dogra hadn't been nerfed to oblivion already.
 
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