Labyrinth walls can't be destroyed by non DG characters
The Labyrinth is an extension of his being, and his being has been weakened x 72 times or so. He himself compared his body to the Labyrinth's walls when he appeared, but now Natsu can easily damage his body, so the Labyrinth is old news.
No, you acting like they stopped being rivals is all you. Mashima has taken each oppurtunity he's had to reiterate them as rivals. It's only the hardcore Erza fans who have an issue with Mira being her rival. Conversely they are the group who had issue with Laxus and Jellal being above her. This is an issue for that portion of the fandom but only them. Kind of like only some of the fans care that Freed is wasting his time pining for Laxus, and the rest get the joke.
I agree that gray and natsu was relative equal at the Tartarus arc
At this point, don't take the Skullion L too seriously. Team Natsu as a whole jobbed Skullion, Madmole and Kiria when they first appeared.
I didn’t say having ignia flames is comparable to ignia flames himself im saying he has that as an additional with his flames and Alta flames. Similar to LFD mode.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I don’t take fairy tail power scaling seriously anymore it terrible honestly for all I care df natsu=Macao at this point lol
Alright then. Your right that Aldoron never interacted with those 2, which mean that they don't get to scale above him alongside Natsu, because DF Natsu also never interacted with them. Aldoron is an arrogant asshole who not only feared Natsu's new power, but considered it potentially world-ending. That's a feat for DF Natsu. Erza and Laxus don't get to automatically scale on that feat, as they aren't even so much as portrayed to be relative to DF Natsu. Their only "feat" regarding all this is having a full force fight and it not being noticed by Aldoron at all, in a series where sensing huge amounts of magic power has been established already.This is the kind of analysis that Injects plot points that simply aren't there. Aldoron had zero interaction with the other people out there and the statements were just used to hint at the power Natsu would have in the future.
His presence remained behind even after his death and Silver froze that .It was Wendy that summoned his soul again through Milky Way. It being casually used means nothing as DF can be casually used as well. Natsu just doesn't because for him it's a last resort type of things. And he did hurt him but like I said he could have done a lot more damage just by using a bladed weapon and we saw that from earlier in the fight. He wasn't even demonized and was just wildly swinging to get his anger out. Invel was defeated after the first attack and the rest was just bullying but the intention there wasn't that he was going to kill him. And the metric you're using doesn't make much sense either. Ice doesn't vape people so why would his ice punches do the same thing that happened to Zeref? And no, at the time Natsu was fighting Zeref in round 1, Zeref still had to tell Natsu about his origin. He only bet everything on the last hit. And there's no way savage flame is weaker at burning when it's literally hotter than his previous flames. He used the same exact attack, but with different level of flames. When his opponent is actually trying, his arms only get burned by the flames. When he's not trying, his entire body gets blown away, but he immediately comes back and explains his power. He clearly let it happen and he even says that DF Natsu never had the power to obliterate him. How would that work if just five seconds ago, Natsu could have blown him to pieces when he didn't have FH. And why would base Zeref be able to keep DF Natsu at bay with just a glare if DF Natsu was so much stronger than him?
FT's progression right now is more like X784. It's either like X784 where they make small improvements mainly centered around new abilities that they may or may not have known (and maybe one or two one time powerups sprinkled in), or like the post ts arcs where power is gained rapidly through timeskips, inherited power, or unlocking origins. And narratively it doesn't really make sense for Natsu to be approaching a decent amount of power of the DGs just yet, He's not only fighting dragon gods but other wizards (and alchemist next). If may seem like "there are only 2 DGs left" but there are most likely going to be a lot of other plot points aside from the DGs and he really only needs to be dragon god level by the time he fights Ignia. That can easily be done in a timeskip or him gaining some kind of powerup.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Dragon force alone has never been able to overcome hax. The most he could do is initially blitz his opponent and get in some hits before he's overwhelmed. It's always when he uses flame of emotion that he's able to burn through hax. If he used dragon force like Gray used demonization, he punches harder, but is still unable to do anything about Skullions ash body or prevent himself from turning to ash. Same thing for Hakune and Haku and most other hax based characters. Without flame of emotions, he's not getting through powernull or transmutations like that.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
Or Natsu just has different levels of power due to difference types of attacks. He was compared to Madmole while in base. He fought Gajeel in LFD. You want Natsu to be god tier which is why you see a problem but nothing in the manga has ever indicated him being on par with the dragon gods. And Gray's never asserted that nothing would work on Mira, Cana just said that his basic freeze probably wouldn't hold her since it didn't work on Skullion. When it came down to actually fighting, he was able to take her down with strength to spare and Mira described it as "Gray beating me up". And why are you skipping around arcs? You do realize that at the same time Gray lost to Skullion, Natsu lost to Madmole and wasn't even able to solidly put him down in round 2 right? Gray lost to a haxed attack in the beginning of the series while trying to protect a city. He's already shown that he can nullify a much stronger hax against Hakune so I don't see why you people keep bringing up stuff from the first arc, Erza considered Suzaku to be abnormally strong but when it came down to it, she could take 5 hours of damage from someone as strong as him. Mashima saying Gray is as strong as Natsu (and it being said in story just last arc), is all the proof needed to say that Gray could handle a ddsk.
prove this claim please. Cause Aldoron doesnt seem to agree.
Natsu was unable to burn the wood before copying those flames, so while the argument that Natsu isn't as strong as Ignia doesn't really need to be argued, the point of weather or not Natsu's flames are as strong as Ignia's (Natsu's couldn't use fire underwater, big bro claims his flames burn water then showed us). Natsu's sudden ability to burn Aldoron and comment about how to burn things differently disagree.
I’m using the Equivalency that why I brought it up My point is he has both Ignia flames and Alta flames plus he df which is basically similar when natsu uses lfd techniques it’s his flames plus laxus lighting.
Ok sure whatever but u didnt answer my question is df natsu equal to gray but weaker than gildartz laxus and erza?Natsu no longer uses Laxus' powers for lfd.
Most people believe that he's above any human mage because of misconceptions mainly sprouting from the Zeref fight. No one was saying nonsense like this back when Natsu went DF against Mard Geer but the fact that Alvarez was the last arc of the original series made people desperate for high end interpretations of everything. His DF isn't any different now than back then, he just has better techniques, which everyone else has also gained. And then there's the Aldoron thing. Aldoron was nerfed to the point that base Natsu was relative to him but he was still stronger. DF and his new technique was just the boost needed to surpass the nerfed state. how does that somehow turn around to mean that nerfed aldoron was astronomically stronger than base Natsu and none of the high tiers would be able to handle him? You have this preconceived notion of DF Natsu's stat boost that isn't really rooted in anything. Here's base Natsu taking hits from Aldoron.
He's hurt, but he can still go back for another attack. Now here's DF Natsu taking hits from Aldoron.
looks less painful for him, but he's still taking damage. If DF was as big of a stat boost as you say, he'd be no selling these attacks in the form.
But honestly at this point I'm tired of the discussion. Believe what you want but this is why you guys look like headless chickens whenever something happens in the manga. You ignore author intention and then when something that shows that intention comes up you can only scratch your head and say "Mashima doesn't know what he's doing". If it was up to the scaling you guys do here, All the BDSK would be stronger than human Acno level because so many people refused to believe that a character could lie. Same with the spriggans. The clear intention was them still being very strong in the powerscale with Brandish and Irene's feats, but so many people wanted to twist those things to say their feats didn't matter or my favorite "Brandish's magic power doesn't scale to her magic power" and called the spriggans fodder to the current enemies. Mashima shuts that down with a spriggan stomping someone who stalemated Natsu and even a direct statement saying the power scale hasn't changed much since the og series. And now we have Gray who so many people here seem to think is fodder simply because he lost to hax in the beginning of the series and Mashima never had time to fit in a round 2 against his opponent. But mashima included multiple statements in the aldoron arc indicating Natsu and Gray rivaling each other and even represented it in Erza's new power up.
Then he had a character who witnessed the moment Natsu beat Aldoron say Gray's power rivaled Natsu's.
. And then he himself says that Gray is equal to Natsu. But sure, all these characters and the author himself has no idea what they're talking about and Gray is actually fodder who gets oneshot by Natsu...... Absolutely ridiculous. See you in the next chapter thread.
Is gray ddsk level?Natsu no longer uses Laxus' powers for lfd.
Most people believe that he's above any human mage because of misconceptions mainly sprouting from the Zeref fight. No one was saying nonsense like this back when Natsu went DF against Mard Geer but the fact that Alvarez was the last arc of the original series made people desperate for high end interpretations of everything. His DF isn't any different now than back then, he just has better techniques, which everyone else has also gained. And then there's the Aldoron thing. Aldoron was nerfed to the point that base Natsu was relative to him but he was still stronger. DF and his new technique was just the boost needed to surpass the nerfed state. how does that somehow turn around to mean that nerfed aldoron was astronomically stronger than base Natsu and none of the high tiers would be able to handle him? You have this preconceived notion of DF Natsu's stat boost that isn't really rooted in anything. Here's base Natsu taking hits from Aldoron.He's hurt, but he can still go back for another attack. Now here's DF Natsu taking hits from Aldoron.looks less painful for him, but he's still taking damage. If DF was as big of a stat boost as you say, he'd be no selling these attacks in the form.
But honestly at this point I'm tired of the discussion. Believe what you want but this is why you guys look like headless chickens whenever something happens in the manga. You ignore author intention and then when something that shows that intention comes up you can only scratch your head and say "Mashima doesn't know what he's doing". If it was up to the scaling you guys do here, All the BDSK would be stronger than human Acno level because so many people refused to believe that a character could lie. Same with the spriggans. The clear intention was them still being very strong in the powerscale with Brandish and Irene's feats, but so many people wanted to twist those things to say their feats didn't matter or my favorite "Brandish's magic power doesn't scale to her magic power" and called the spriggans fodder to the current enemies. Mashima shuts that down with a spriggan stomping someone who stalemated Natsu and even a direct statement saying the power scale hasn't changed much since the og series. And now we have Gray who so many people here seem to think is fodder simply because he lost to hax in the beginning of the series and Mashima never had time to fit in a round 2 against his opponent. But mashima included multiple statements in the aldoron arc indicating Natsu and Gray rivaling each other and even represented it in Erza's new power up.
Then he had a character who witnessed the moment Natsu beat Aldoron say Gray's power rivaled Natsu's.. And then he himself says that Gray is equal to Natsu. But sure, all these characters and the author himself has no idea what they're talking about and Gray is actually fodder who gets oneshot by Natsu...... Absolutely ridiculous. See you in the next chapter thread.
Of course they stopped being rival when one couldn't even do fuking magic and became the sweetest thing possible (remember how.mira was as a teen).
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
why are erza and laxus separate?Natsu is a main character. Of course he gets much more time to be daddy than other characters. Laxus is still stronger than Natsu. Yes. But Natsu will be getting much more stronger opponents. There is no matter how strong bad guy in front of Natsu is. It is status of a main character.
But Guild has her own power ranking.
1. Gildarts
2. Laxus
3. Erza/Mira
4. Natsu/Gray
Others
Because there is another status. Status quo.
This is my thoughts
Gray will get power up in battle with skullion. It is obvious. But right now Gray is a side character. That's why fandom see him so weak. He doesn't get time he deserves. Author sees him only like Juvia's boyfriend. And there is no matter that Gray was the best character of ft. Right now Gray is a poor boy.
If we ignore what he said, sure we could make that argument. Except he literally makes a point about needing a different way to burn it, and this is followed by the reveal that he can incoporate past flames into his flames when necessary. We are blatantly told he used Ignia's flame and the other's. It's not followed by an announcement, "thank goodness your flames are so much weaker." He doesn't have as much power, but he can use those flames.
Bruh, i think it's genuinely funny how often you say headcannon, and then proceeed to type absolute bullshit that contradicts what the manga literally tells us happened. She gives a loss speech. She needed amps (dragon seal, enchanted blades of natsu and gray). Lets ignore the reveal that she also trained over the TS to get stronger, even though she reveals it herself lol. She had done literally nothing beforehand, and you still need to make a big deal about his response to her trying to claim victory to undo the speech Mashima wrote her giving acknowledging the difference. Let's pretend the manga said that Laxus improved, and not that Erza has thought herself a challenge to Laxus since his rebellion and literally every time they clash she must admit she was wrong about how strong he is. Go off though.
are you serious? Misaki did lose to POF Erza, as she used yet another spell amp to use Jellal's magic. She's also weaker than Kirin by her own admission. Kirin who by Selene's confirmed statement is the strongest member. Laxus was able to damage Kirin just fine with RL and put him on his ass. He simply couldn't counter the coffin in conjunction with his other attacks. Laxus getting that new mode was dope, and it let him do Kirin the same way he did with Kiria, so i'll take it. --- Double Post Merged, ---
I didn't though, that's a sematical argument there you are welcome to make though. Probably should have better worded your OP if this was your original assertion and not a pivot.
what does the manga tells us?
when did erza used pof against miskai.Wait, wait, wait
misaki is only slightly weaker than kirin, provided of course he has that coffin.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
my headcannon, sorry mate. i normally give benefit of doubt to the other guy.Lol @sharkai ur funny u said not too long ago laxus is slightly above erza but now she not pick one dude
