I'm gonna be like you bro, if the author himself doesn't respect the series power scaling I'm not going to bother myself lol. It's crazy how Hiro thinks lightning flame natsu=iron shadow gajeel means natsu=gajeel. Gildarts feats looks like child play when you look at what natsu and erza were doing in Alvarez. Natsu and erza shouldn't even be below gildarts level after Alvarez. I'm gonna be like you bro the power scaling is really atrocious
Yeah, Mashima does what he wants lol. As for Erza, ehh she struggled against Ajeel and Neinhart, wouldn't put her above Gildarts in feats. Natsu however consistently is leagues above anyone once he uses DF
Quite honestly, powerscaling in Alverass wasn't really bad, except that one instance where Natsu rolled FH Zeref with infinite magic, that shit made zero sense.
What was bad was the plot itself (for both Zeref and Acno), death fake outs, Spriggans collectively being trash, and fights being just straight boring.
Powerscaling itself became a clown show only by the spinoff itself.
The embodiment of powerscaling clown show is Diobolos trio went from:
One shotting Lucy & Wendy (Kyria), matching Erza in combat (Kyria), beating Gray (Skillion), no selling FDKM demo fist (Madmole) -> getting low diff by Laxus (Kyria), stalemating Mira and Elfman (Skillion and Madmole) -> getting no diff in 2v1 against Laxus (Skillion and Madmole), losing to Lucy (Kyria)
There is ZERO way to logically explain this dogshit.
Also, Spriggans are somehow still relevant after the good guys grew in power for 1 year.
True, also it doesn’t seem to affect him that much MP wise, of course there’s not many cases (maybe once) where he has to fight another enemy right after using it
People say Misaki is stronger than kirin, but I've seen nothing that indicates that. I don't know how people are putting her above kirin, I need statements that says she's the strongest Diabolos guild member. How do we know kirin wasn't even serious against her. I see know reason why kirin will just state he's the strongest if he isn't the strongest. It doesn't make sense
People say Misaki is stronger than kirin, but I've seen nothing that indicates that. I don't know how people are putting her above kirin, I need statements that says she's the strongest Diabolos guild member. How do we know kirin wasn't even serious against her. I see know reason why kirin will just state he's the strongest if he isn't the strongest. It doesn't make sense
As I said before, she's a ridiculously OP adversary with a "world" + magic with hours of torture all invented to give an achievement to Erza the torture specialist and the only one who can bypass her magic. I guess Kirin may have moved to her dimension to trick her into getting serious but there's no claim that he defeated her like Erza did. So that makes her stronger than Kirin the guy who gets ONE SHOT by his own magic (same bullshit as Dragon Irene who gets One Shot by DS magic when she is the mother of DS).
Sometimes I wonder if the concept of equality is lost on people here. We don't know who won the duel between Misaki and Kirin. So maybe instead of saying one is stronger than the other, we can just use the information given to us prior that told us they were equal to each other. And Kirin didn't get oneshot by just his own magic. Laxus fused it with red lightning to make something stronger.
People say Misaki is stronger than kirin, but I've seen nothing that indicates that. I don't know how people are putting her above kirin, I need statements that says she's the strongest Diabolos guild member. How do we know kirin wasn't even serious against her. I see know reason why kirin will just state he's the strongest if he isn't the strongest. It doesn't make sense
Well it's clear Erza was holding back in that fight. Miskai and Kirin are about equal and yet Erza didn't hold back in her fight with Misaki.
All Kirin ragdolling laxus mean Erza was stronger than Laxus before his power up.
Misaki was compared to Gildarts right off the bat while causal while Kirin had to get serious to be compared to Gildarts.
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Well it's clear Erza was holding back in that fight. Miskai and Kirin are about equal and yet Erza didn't hold back in her fight with Misaki.
All Kirin ragdolling laxus mean Erza was stronger than Laxus before his power up.
It was shown he woke up first because of the white wizard. Everyone who was knocked out woke up at the same time when the white wizard powers unaffected them.
It was shown he woke up first because of the white wizard. Everyone who was knocked out woke up at the same time when the white wizard powers unaffected them.
That's perfect, my friend. Icy on the cake. I am glad I have found one people who read the manga, understanding all the circumstances.
I thank you, bro .
Suzaku losing to Dogra only confirms that human Selene lied, Dogra having better defense is bullshit.
Human Ignia = Human Selene and Suzaku shit in his pants in front of him.
Prove that. Show us that Dogra having better defense is BS. Then provide evidence that Selene is equal to Ignia in human form because nothing suggests they are.
No, having better durability is not relevant to actual dragon gods who a human one can destroy his stones with heat alone. Selene basically let him win as to get to his master. Or simply she didn’t go All out even in that form, he was still afraid even in human form afterward. Ignia cheap shot her when they were ceasing battle..
prove this assertion. Selene directly contradicts what you're saying and you have nothing to offer to suggest that she's lying.
Her beating Georg is clearly because shes that much stronger than her human form. An if she can transform fast enough to 1 shot Georg, why wouldn't Suzaku expect similar treatment? Also, are we going to ignore that Suzaku still wanted to fight her??? SKullion had to talk him down.
She lost to Ignia, and was taking damage from all of his attacks throughout the match. An regardless of the itnerruption he was still preparred to use that attack.
Just like Mashima retconned Laxus' lacrima because without it, he couldn't rival and beat Kirin. The Lacrima nerfed his magic ? Seriously ?
It has been stated in Fantasia Arc that it was given by his father to enhance his Magic Power (Dragon Slayer's ability) because he was too weak without it when he was younger.
I like Power Up but not when it reconned a character's identity (removing his Magic Source), especially when this character was chapters ago stated to have improved by great mergin in all stats (Erza's statement : "how much stronger have you become, Laxus ?"
Mashima could choose another way for Laxus' victory. For me, this is a poor writting. It's just like saying "Devil Slayer's Magic nerfed Grey's Ice Make. So, Grey has to remove it to double his MP. It's not even laughable.
This entire series of statments is wrong...and i'm confused on why @Ronin31.
We are clearly told that while Laxus had inherited his bloodlines magic power, his body was exceptionally weak. The lacrima was to overcome that weakness. Since it would be giving him Dragon characteristics, makes sense he needed it. Also makes perfect sense he relied on it too much. I mean hell, Laxus went from using all kinds of Lightning magic and treating DS magic as a mode, to using almost exclusively DS magic in his confrontations.
It was never his magic source though..and you're ignoring him devouring Elexion's soul. his MP should be greater.
Natsu is definitely weaker than Erza and Laxus with fire dragon king since they fought the strongest BDSK. Also Hiro claimed Natsu\Grey/Gajeel on the same tier while Erza laxus and Gildarts are above.
This is what we mean by the sliding power scale. He intends to keep his established power rankings until we jump to their adulthood. REgardless of what he actually writes, this is his actual intent lol.
Misaki was compared to Gildarts right off the bat while causal while Kirin had to get serious to be compared to Gildarts.
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Well it's clear Erza was holding back in that fight. Miskai and Kirin are about equal and yet Erza didn't hold back in her fight with Misaki.
All Kirin ragdolling laxus mean Erza was stronger than Laxus before his power up.
Misaki and Erza were compared to Gildarts and Laxus respectively, because they reminded Gray of them. It has no bearing on their actual strength. Gray couldn't differentiate between the Spriggan either. Laxus, who is one of the people actually one this tier, didn't compare Kiring to Gilarts until he powered up because before he powered up they had similar MPs.
Erza had to go all out to match and beat Misaki, as previously mentioned we know her to be weaker than Kirin. Kirin was clear that he was the guilds ace, and her strongest attack's bragging point was that she used it on Kirin. Laxus was comparable to Kirin with his RL already. He damaged him just find with regular lightning, and then put him on his ass with RL. He was able to power through his hax and do some real damage. It was just the coffin he struggles with. An since the only spell we've seen that looks similar is Faris' drain, which dropped the entire guild, it's effectiveness should be evident. He then overcomes that by eating the soul. He can now stack Thunder Dragon King mode on top of everything else, and it became a one shot. Since RL put him on his ass, adding another mode on top and getting a KO makes sense. An since Erza needed amps to keep up with RL Laxus. An needed amps to beat Misaki. I miss the arugment.
GL_Nova, She literally said that she wouldn’t mind losing to Suzaku. Why didn’t Suzaku one shot her while she is in human form? that was his best chance. that was while in human form. Diabolos master wasn’t even that strong as Selene stated, that he wasn’t worthy of someone of Suzaku’s strength. Why would Kyria attack even though Selene defeated her master? She lost because of a sucker punch move, and Ignia was taking similar damage as well, they were relative to each other. And Selene wasn’t prepared, thus sneak attack.
I've seen an interesting point of discussion in the Erza vs Suzaku thread but it's a little off topic so I want to expand on it here. Do you guys think that Base Natsu in Alvarez arc is significantly stronger than any version of Natsu that came before. Because a lot of people (myself included) seem to have fallen into the idea that every increase in power is astronomical. But in reality FT is a series where a 2-3 x power boost is all it takes for you to go from getting stomped, to matching your opponent or even stomping them. Dragon force was stated to be a 2-3x boost when Natsu used it pre time skip and each time it significantly closed the gap between him and his opponent. Second origin just doubled his magic and Natsu went from struggling against Max to casually oneshotting him. So did Natsu and the rest of FT really need to get that much stronger to perform the feats they did in Alvarez? For example, would the roar Natsu used to beat Bluenote be all that different from the lfd roar he used against Hades? I can't really see Bluenote getting back up from that.
With regards to the Tenrou LFD Roar vs Bluenote, you have to remember that Bluenote had 8 years since then to grow stronger. I think he'd be able to tank it.
As for your overall question, base Natsu did feel significantly stronger in Alverez compared to his previous base. He felt a decent amount stronger than his pre-TS LFD mode self, and felt roughly on par with his Tartaros DF.
The way he dispatched those Avatar goons (who would usually be the equivalent of the more serious threats in previous arcs), as well as the emphasis that all his base fire ds attacks had, conveyed his huge growth.
If you count his FDK spells as part of his base like I do, then yeah he definitely grew astronomically, with his FDK mode taking him to even crazier heights.
Of course, that was how he felt in the Alverass Arc. Now he feels like fodder in his base (excluding his FDK stuff)
GL_Nova, She literally said that she wouldn’t mind losing to Suzaku. Why didn’t Suzaku one shot her while she is in human form? that was his best chance. that was while in human form. Diabolos master wasn’t even that strong as Selene stated, that he wasn’t worthy of someone of Suzaku’s strength. Why would Kyria attack even though Selene defeated her master? She lost because of a sucker punch move, and Ignia was taking similar damage as well, they were relative to each other. And Selene wasn’t prepared, thus sneak attack.
I say I wouldn’t mind losing to my lil brother before I stomp him on MK or Soulcal all the time. That isn’t an argument. An if it is, the burden is on you to prove how it means anything past not simply transforming into a dragon and stomping him like she did Georg? Cause she also, as you just referenced, restated they were no match for her as a dragon, but followed that up with reiterating that her human form was no match for Suzaku. Why would it mean she was lying about the l she took? Why do you cherry pick which of Selene’s statements are true to fit your narrative? Why are you so comfortable doing so?
No. She just lost. Ignia tanked the strongest spell she threw and kept talking shit. She had to run from his basic flame attacks. Why are we ignoring things to pretend this is an argument?? Ignia has never once stated the other DG’s are a threat to him. Ignia played Suzaku and Natsu together. Then casually handled Selene. This fear of mutual destruction is only from Selene. An it makes more sense Ignia is just stronger than her, as opposed to she was hiding all this power and lying because she’s so devious. (Which not one iteration of her personality has shown, chaotic yea, evil genius no.)
None of which changes that Suzaku showed himself stronger than the Human Selene in that battle. He gets those feats and that scaling. Nobody downplays Irene by pointing out Acno didn’t take her serious at first. An just as he was about to she teleported him away. If Selene stepped to Athena in todays chapter and showed off another level of power as a human. Wouldn’t get rid of Suzaku slashing the casually serious Selene with the best passive MP Feat in the verse. I don’t get why folks still even arguing about that point. The Erza Vs Laxus debate makes more sense than this lol.
I say I wouldn’t mind losing to my lil brother before I stomp him on MK or Soulcal all the time. That isn’t an argument. An if it is, the burden is on you to prove how it means anything past not simply transforming into a dragon and stomping him like she did Georg? Cause she also, as you just referenced, restated they were no match for her as a dragon, but followed that up with reiterating that her human form was no match for Suzaku. Why would it mean she was lying about the l she took? Why do you cherry pick which of Selene’s statements are true to fit your narrative? Why are you so comfortable doing so?
No. She just lost. Ignia tanked the strongest spell she threw and kept talking shit. She had to run from his basic flame attacks. Why are we ignoring things to pretend this is an argument?? Ignia has never once stated the other DG’s are a threat to him. Ignia played Suzaku and Natsu together. Then casually handled Selene. This fear of mutual destruction is only from Selene. An it makes more sense Ignia is just stronger than her, as opposed to she was hiding all this power and lying because she’s so devious. (Which not one iteration of her personality has shown, chaotic yea, evil genius no.)
None of which changes that Suzaku showed himself stronger than the Human Selene in that battle. He gets those feats and that scaling. Nobody downplays Irene by pointing out Acno didn’t take her serious at first. An just as he was about to she teleported him away. If Selene stepped to Athena in todays chapter and showed off another level of power as a human. Wouldn’t get rid of Suzaku slashing the casually serious Selene with the best passive MP Feat in the verse. I don’t get why folks still even arguing about that point. The Erza Vs Laxus debate makes more sense than this lol.
Kurugi is not Selene's brother, but her son, it is as she said it is a distortion, and she values those above anything else. transforming to break free of those chains since she is bound there. And yet Suzaku coward before Ignia who was in dragon form who could destroy something he could not, and Ignia had to transform into a dragon before she could when they faced off. which Selene's human form would be akin in power compared to human form Ignia. So she could get to that master dude and avenge her son. Nothing about it is cherry picking, especially to someone who is so inconsistent with how she operates since her entire presence in the story. And Selene tanked said attacks that Ignia threw at her with relative ease, and even countered his roar. She used her portal to put out his flames, and yet he was coughing blood and in pain, you are overlooking those facts as well, but considering that Law dude said they are on the same level, that trumps whatever he claims cuz he is arrogant. causally? he was in no better shape than Selene was before Natsu interrupted them. and only won via in a cease fire to take advantage, he is a war criminal. She just wants to twist things as that is her thing, and saying that she wouldn't mind losing is one of them. Supposedly as Selene wanted to. that would mean that Wendy is stronger than Human Selene considering she defeated Haku who is on Suzaku's level. But Acno goes all out against those he talks to only when he doesn't consider them insects, that matches up to his personality. So Irene would hold her own against Acno going all out and he acknowledged her strength. That feat would just scale to more than jus said two.
Interesting. In my opinion I don't think the 8 years was enough to put Bluenote that much higher. Even Hades would have taken considerable damage from that blast had it not been for his heart supplying him endless magic power. And Hades' power was respected even by members of Tartaros as according to Franmalth, Grimoire Heart was the strongest dark guild when Hades was leading it. I doubt that much would change in 1 year if 7 years wasn't enough for Hades' power to become fodder.
I wonder what makes you make the comparison to his tartaros DF. Not that I disagree with you as I think his base in alvarez should definitely be 2-3x stronger than before, but the only thing he did in dragon force was attack Mard Geer.
Eh the avatar people didn't really feel like they would have been big threats even in other arcs. To me they seemed similar to that knight group that appeared in during the GMG.
Yeah his FDK spells are definitely better than his regular attacks, by how much I wonder. Going back to the Max example, a 2x increase in strength was enough for Natsu to go from struggling to casually beating him. I thought before that the Ikusatsunagi case made it clear that there was an astronomical difference between the iron fist and the destruction fist but looking back at previous examples, that doesn't have to be the case. And it's funny you mention his portrayal in 100 years quest since the feat he performed in the latest chapter is pretty much the same thing he did during GMG (expcept this time it's a "sneeze" instead of a punch). And even the portrayal of his FDK attacks seem to be different now. During the fight against Mercphobia, it seemed like his secret art in base was supposed to be stronger than his FDK attacks. Granted I don't remember him using secret arts during Alvarez, but my assumption was that FDK was better than everything so there was no point.
Kurugi is not Selene's brother, but her son, it is as she said it is a distortion, and she values those above anything else. transforming to break free of those chains since she is bound there. And yet Suzaku coward before Ignia who was in dragon form who could destroy something he could not, and Ignia had to transform into a dragon before she could when they faced off. which Selene's human form would be akin in power compared to human form Ignia. So she could get to that master dude and avenge her son. Nothing about it is cherry picking, especially to someone who is so inconsistent with how she operates since her entire presence in the story. And Selene tanked said attacks that Ignia threw at her with relative ease, and even countered his roar. She used her portal to put out his flames, and yet he was coughing blood and in pain, you are overlooking those facts as well, but considering that Law dude said they are on the same level, that trumps whatever he claims cuz he is arrogant. causally? he was in no better shape than Selene was before Natsu interrupted them. and only won via in a cease fire to take advantage, he is a war criminal. She just wants to twist things as that is her thing, and saying that she wouldn't mind losing is one of them. Supposedly as Selene wanted to. that would mean that Wendy is stronger than Human Selene considering she defeated Haku who is on Suzaku's level. But Acno goes all out against those he talks to only when he doesn't consider them insects, that matches up to his personality. So Irene would hold her own against Acno going all out and he acknowledged her strength. That feat would just scale to more than jus said two.
What? Where did I say anything about Kurnugi?? What does this have to do with anything?
This was already addressed. Ignia has better feats than Selene. Even without the blow that put her down. An Ignia tanked Selene’s big attack. Selene didn’t tank anything. She literally ran through the portal to use the water to douse the flames bc she was burning what you mean? You’d have been better off mentioning that tail whip. She did, using a larger roar. What am I overlooking? Ignia took every attack she had and came back and his confidence was unshaken. He’s not majorly injured. That’s what actually happened.
He said they are all a certain level. He also said Dogramag is on their level but obviously the weakest. So they aren’t all the exact same level of strength are they. An Irene wasn’t strong enough to keep from being affected by Haku. So that comparison stands fine.
No she wouldn’t. Irene dodged one casual attack then teleported him away. She didn’t dodge a GS style blitz, she didn’t tank the blow or block it. An then she lost to Wendy and Erza. Oh my bad, was suicide inspired. So Wendy and her beating Haku isn’t that far fetched. She was able to counter Irene and beat her a year ago, by frustrating her to death. Now she can beat that level mage outright after a year plus of growth. Let’s see if she faces another High enchanter how she does.
What? Where did I say anything about Kurnugi?? What does this have to do with anything?
This was already addressed. Ignia has better feats than Selene. Even without the blow that put her down. An Ignia tanked Selene’s big attack. Selene didn’t tank anything. She literally ran through the portal to use the water to douse the flames bc she was burning what you mean? You’d have been better off mentioning that tail whip. She did, using a larger roar. What am I overlooking? Ignia took every attack she had and came back and his confidence was unshaken. He’s not majorly injured. That’s what actually happened.
He said they are all a certain level. He also said Dogramag is on their level but obviously the weakest. So they aren’t all the exact same level of strength are they. An Irene wasn’t strong enough to keep from being affected by Haku. So that comparison stands fine.
No she wouldn’t. Irene dodged one casual attack then teleported him away. She didn’t dodge a GS style blitz, she didn’t tank the blow or block it. An then she lost to Wendy and Erza. Oh my bad, was suicide inspired. So Wendy and her beating Haku isn’t that far fetched. She was able to counter Irene and beat her a year ago, by frustrating her to death. Now she can beat that level mage outright after a year plus of growth. Let’s see if she faces another High enchanter how she does.
you said something about lil brother which I would assume you were referring to what Selene said to Suzaku. And yet it required Ignia to transform first into a Dragon to fight her. Selene's guard was down, which does not automatically mean better feats when She could take his attacks while fighting. Selene even tanked his big attack too. So? fire just persists, doesn't mean there is any external force behind it after said attack. so of course she would wash the flames. If that were the case then Lucy would scale to Natsu as she survived the heat of his flames too. what larger roar? their attacks were relevant, if anything, Ignia blasted a hole through her with a smaller breath than before, which showed that he did not use the same power as before. Even a paw could draw blood from Ignia, he was the only one to show blood from a simple paw attack, confidence through arrogance. That only means that Dog Dude is not relative to them unlike the others. Irene was not using her own magic power, but Wendy's and she was still fast enough to take some of Wendy's so she could use magic to help. Incorrect, the story stated that Acno goes all out against those he doesn't consider insects and those he don't consider insects he talks to, so you are saying that GS is stronger than Irene? Jellal tanked and dodged blows from Acno both in human and in dragon form and he got stomped by August. Irene would have won if she didn't kill herself against Erza and Wendy who the former had Irene's power up. Wendy can't counter if said power is greater than her own as Wendy proved when she was in Irene's body, so difference in power still matters even with hax, that only goes to show that before Irene was not even going all out against Erza and Wendy who the former could bring down acno with RoT while she was still tired from her previous fights, even MPF proves that as level of power is applied.
Interesting. In my opinion I don't think the 8 years was enough to put Bluenote that much higher. Even Hades would have taken considerable damage from that blast had it not been for his heart supplying him endless magic power. And Hades' power was respected even by members of Tartaros as according to Franmalth, Grimoire Heart was the strongest dark guild when Hades was leading it. I doubt that much would change in 1 year if 7 years wasn't enough for Hades' power to become fodder.
I wonder what makes you make the comparison to his tartaros DF. Not that I disagree with you as I think his base in alvarez should definitely be 2-3x stronger than before, but the only thing he did in dragon force was attack Mard Geer.
Eh the avatar people didn't really feel like they would have been big threats even in other arcs. To me they seemed similar to that knight group that appeared in during the GMG.
Yeah his FDK spells are definitely better than his regular attacks, by how much I wonder. Going back to the Max example, a 2x increase in strength was enough for Natsu to go from struggling to casually beating him. I thought before that the Ikusatsunagi case made it clear that there was an astronomical difference between the iron fist and the destruction fist but looking back at previous examples, that doesn't have to be the case. And it's funny you mention his portrayal in 100 years quest since the feat he performed in the latest chapter is pretty much the same thing he did during GMG (expcept this time it's a "sneeze" instead of a punch). And even the portrayal of his FDK attacks seem to be different now. During the fight against Mercphobia, it seemed like his secret art in base was supposed to be stronger than his FDK attacks. Granted I don't remember him using secret arts during Alvarez, but my assumption was that FDK was better than everything so there was no point.
It largely comes down to portrayal for me. Bluenote was portrayed as the Gildarts equivalent from Grimoire Heart (although a bit weaker), and taking into account how much someone like Max (who isn't exactly power-hungry or anything) grew in that timespan, it seems logical that someone like Bluenote should've grown a lot in that timeframe + 1 extra year. I could easily see him being quite a bit stronger than Hades, especially since his re-introduction had a fair bit of hype behind it (what with him teleporting past his henchman like that)
For the Tartaros DF Natsu comparison, true, we didn't see too much from him. I would actually rate him weaker than base Alverez Natsu, but I'm cutting him some slack. Base Natsu's fire ds attacks from that saga were portrayed to be very impactful with minimum strain. His iron fist made a sizeable explosion when he one-shotted the Avatar leader and pushed the titanic Ikusatsunagi into the ground, while his fd talon attack was shown to spread across the landscape when he used it against Ajeel's army. The Bluenote roar was massive, as well as casually thrown, he could rush through 100 000 mobs without tiring and he showed that when he stopped jobbing, he could easily punch the scarf guy from Ajeel's army high into the sky and through Ajeel's ship, causing Gajeel to have an expression that felt like he was pissed off for being surpassed by this much (this is important for later). He felt like he could mid-diff Mard at best and oneshot him at worst, but I'll scale the Tartaros DF a bit closer him cause of DF hype and Natsu already being exhausted at that point.
Despite the secret arts being saved as the "finishers", the FDK attacks still feel stronger to me for a bunch of reasons. Their massive size that causes the panel to frequently zoom out when he uses them, Ignia Natsu spammed them instead of secret arts when he wanted to destroy Merc, and Igneel hype. They feel a bit weaker currently though, and base Natsu in general feels way weaker.
Him jobbing to Madmole and Mercphobia I can understand, but when he got overpowered by base Gajeel when they headbutted eachother, it already felt like his strength was regressed (especially since Gajeel went on to give him an extreme-diff fight).
Second instance was when he jobbed to Nure Onna Lucy. Sure, she got a powerup, but imo it wasn't an impressive one because:
Lucy's power development was mainly through her star-dresses, which is power borrowed from her spirits. The snake form would've only been a boost to her base and
It couldn't have been that big of a power-up, 'cause it came from a henchman that should be on-par with Mimi, who's <= Virgo SD Lucy
Finally, him being overpowered by Sting without his FDK.
Stuff like that sneeze is cool, but it's not quite enough to fix his base portrayal for me
Alvarez base Natsu is "stronger" than Tartaros DF Natsu because he has more MP. In terms of how hard they hit, there's probably not a huge difference. Tartaros DF would probably beaten Bluenote too. It just woulda taken all his power.
I think there's a big misconception of what constitutes base and FDK. There is no such thing as "base FDK". FDK is a type of fire. It has no consistent power level. When Natsu is casual, FDK can be no sold by Madmole. When Natsu is more serious, FDK can overpower Madmole. When Natsu triggers DF, FDK can obliterate Zeref's body or burn Aldoron's thorns. When Natsu is at peak emotional state, FDK can burn infinite MP of Fairy Heart and becomes too hot for Natsu's slayer resistance. That's the maximum potential of FDK. Eating Ignia's flames allowed FDK to reach max potential too. It burned away Mercphobia's MP and his own hands.
Base Natsu's flames has a maximum potential too. It's just much lower than FDK's. I dont think it gets much stronger than Tartaros DF. You can think of Tartaros arc Natsu needing DF to use base flames max potential, but current can reach that same max potential much easier.
Alvarez base Natsu is "stronger" than Tartaros DF Natsu because he has more MP. In terms of how hard they hit, there's probably not a huge difference. Tartaros DF would probably beaten Bluenote too. It just woulda taken all his power.
I think there's a big misconception of what constitutes base and FDK. There is no such thing as "base FDK". FDK is a type of fire. It has no consistent power level. When Natsu is casual, FDK can be no sold by Madmole. When Natsu is more serious, FDK can overpower Madmole. When Natsu triggers DF, FDK can obliterate Zeref's body or burn Aldoron's thorns. When Natsu is at peak emotional state, FDK can burn infinite MP of Fairy Heart and becomes too hot for Natsu's slayer resistance. That's the maximum potential of FDK. Eating Ignia's flames allowed FDK to reach max potential too. It burned away Mercphobia's MP and his own hands.
Base Natsu's flames has a maximum potential too. It's just much lower than FDK's. I dont think it gets much stronger than Tartaros DF. You can think of Tartaros arc Natsu needing DF to use base flames max potential, but current can reach that same max potential much easier.
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