I've seen people who have defended this because she's Erza. I mean what is there to defend. It's pretty obvious mashima didn't care about the sixth sense explanation
Mashima don't care about everything related to power scaling.
If he writes a fight between Erza and Mira, it will end in a draw or extreme difficulty, while he has given Erza feats that place her well above Mira. The same goes for Laxus/Jellal, August/Eileen, Natsu/Gray. Mashima doesn't care about the feats, all that matters to him is the portrayal.
Yet she healed up nicely, she clearly said that she did it so she could get to their master. Suzaku is weaker simply because he is as powerful as the other DDKs who Wendy defeated and who Irene’s magic power is greater than Wendy’s and would harm ner if she uses it. Erza had Irene’s enchantment powering her up that she could hold her own, DS is anathema to Dragons, plus her already powered up state it would still affect Irene like any other dragon, but Irene still stood in the end. Erza had no durability when she fought Suzaku and could still react, and then she defeated Misaki who is Suzaku’s level. And Natsu survived the same attack that supposedly did Selene in. That alone would show that Selene played them for a fool. Irene managed to dodge even a serious human Acno as point blank right underneath her feet. Jellal could dodge Dragon Acno’s breath and Dragon Forms even when not serious are already a tier or more above their serious human states.
People who love and Erza both know that's was probably her most BS fight in the series. So using that fight as a power scaling for Irene doesn't make much sense. Unless all the BDSK including Laxus and Erza have surpassed Irene and August Suzaku isn't stronger than her. The strongest of the BDSK was compared to Gildarts who got whooped by August( even that fight was plot since the "Wizard King" mostly goes with hand to hand combat when fighting). August also tanked Gildars strongest attack.
Weakened Erza > Dragon Irene >>> Human Irene > Erza( amped). Let's not also forget Wendy was pulling asspulls left to right as well in that fight. Also what makes you think Human Selene > Irene anyway?
Yeah. She probably did the most significant magic power feat in the series but did that really help her in her fight with Suzaku. I mean Selene own admission Suzaku is above her human form, and Irene is stronger than that. Selene had no reason to lie at that point since she was already taking over their guild. And it's not like their human forms are 75% of their power, probably only like 5-15%.
Yeah. She probably did the most significant magic power feat in the series but did that really help her in her fight with Suzaku. I mean Selene own admission Suzaku is above her human form, and Irene is stronger than that. Selene had no reason to lie at that point since she was already taking over their guild. And it's not like their human forms are 75% of their power, probably only like 5-15%.
Ok, so where is the supporting evidence for Irene being stronger? Human Selene was also positive she could eliminate Irene while she was literally dying, and had absolutely no reason to lie. Sooo
Conclusion to all of this: If people say Selene lied about Suzaku being stronger than his human form then Selene lied about Irene having a big MP. If people love to take seriously the statement that Irene has a big MP then people have to admit that Suzaku defeated the human Selene.
Really funny how people take statements they want and ignore other statements or things that happen in the manga.
Especially when no statement supports that Irene is at DG level. Being stronger than fodder like Haku or Misaki won't put her at DG level.
Eileen is clearly not DG's level, nor Acnologia's level. The gap is real. Same for BDSK and all wizards for now.
Eileen still is top tier wizard in the verse.
Conclusion to all of this: If people say Selene lied about Suzaku being stronger than his human form then Selene lied about Irene having a big MP. If people love to take seriously the statement that Irene has a big MP then people have to admit that Suzaku defeated the human Selene.
Really funny how people take statements they want and ignore other statements or things that happen in the manga.
Especially when no statement supports that Irene is at DG level. Being stronger than fodder like Haku or Misaki won't put her at DG level.
"BDSK > Human Selene" make no sense because it was shown that the BDSK are weaker than Human Ignia (Selene equal) and weaker than a nerfed Human Dogra (weaker than human Selene)
Human Selene/Ignia > Human Dogra >> August/Eileen >> Gildarts = BDSK.
"BDSK > Human Selene" make no sense because it was shown that the BDSK are weaker than Human Ignia (Selene equal) and weaker than a nerfed Human Dogra (weaker than human Selene)
Human Selene/Ignia > Human Dogra >> August/Eileen >> Gildarts = BDSK.
This doesn't make sense to me. X793 gildarts is not the same gildarts back in Alvarez arc. Characters get stronger. Do you guys not even watch other anime . Characters get stronger after a timeskip. There's no reason to believe that x793 gildarts scales to his past self. Ignia was never equal to selene. Only selene thought the Dgs was equal. Aldoron after waking up said after he gathers his powers he was going to go after the remaining Dgs. Only selene thought they were equals and they are not. Ignia legit on another level. August and Eileen aren't stronger than bdsk well they're stronger than haku as for misaki suzaku and kirin there's argument to be made. Stop using Alvarez arc to scale x793 characters. Characters get stronger it's not a new thing every anime does this. Y'all be acting like this is the first time this stuff happens. Do you want mashima to be spoon-feeding you everytime?
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Ft fans be acting like power creep doesn't exist. It happens in every Shounen anime. Characters don't remain stagnant. Gildarts got stronger just like everyone else. Hell natsu and erza was one shot material for suzaku. Now they're more or less on his level. Eileen got fucked up pretty bad by Wendy and Erza. No version of Wendy and Erza s fucking human selene that bad before post elentear
Conclusion to all of this: If people say Selene lied about Suzaku being stronger than his human form then Selene lied about Irene having a big MP. If people love to take seriously the statement that Irene has a big MP then people have to admit that Suzaku defeated the human Selene.
Really funny how people take statements they want and ignore other statements or things that happen in the manga.
Especially when no statement supports that Irene is at DG level. Being stronger than fodder like Haku or Misaki won't put her at DG level.
My issue is if Suzaku defeated human Selene, that would not change either way that Irene is stronger, as her power is dangerous to Wendy and she defeated someone of his level, and even Wendy’s potential was smacking around Erza, Haku’s stats would scale to Suzaku’s as he would have to withstand his own MP.
Honestly i do not care either way as the scaling still exists.
For some reason, there’s a common belief that Gildarts didn’t get stronger between the Alvarez war and the 100YQ. There’s already been confirmation that they all got stronger in the past year. Aside from that, are we gonna ignore the fact that this is the same guy who is known for getting insane power ups? You couldn’t have read FT and the sequel and actually think this.
"BDSK > Human Selene" make no sense because it was shown that the BDSK are weaker than Human Ignia (Selene equal) and weaker than a nerfed Human Dogra (weaker than human Selene)
Human Selene/Ignia > Human Dogra >> August/Eileen >> Gildarts = BDSK.
Ignia has said he's stronger than them since his fucking debut. An feats support it. So show that Selene is equal.
Dogramag the Earth Dragon whose entire powerset it buffed towards defense yeah? Them having trouble with his defense, when Suzaku strugggled to beat Human Selene, somehow invalidates that victory?? Please, since the rest of your "Irene is the goddess" crew can't do it, make that bullshit make sense bro. I'll wait
My issue is if Suzaku defeated human Selene, that would not change either way that Irene is stronger, as her power is dangerous to Wendy and she defeated someone of his level, and even Wendy’s potential was smacking around Erza, Haku’s stats would scale to Suzaku’s as he would have to withstand his own MP.
Honestly i do not care either way as the scaling still exists.
That's only if you ignore that it literally took Irene and Wendy working together to win.
An if you ignore that we are blatantly told that Irene has her OWN FUCKING MAGIC, and has had this magic THE ENTIRE FUCKING TIME.
An if we ignore you once again, CHERRY PICKING the parts of Selene's statement that works for your argument. Either she was too strong for Wendy to handle bc of her magic like Selene said (and therefore had that magic the entire time for Selene to sense) or she has no magic of her own and it's simply Wendy's own power that is somehow a danger. Can't be both.
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It's literally the exact same group of guys for the past 100+ pages trying to Vulcan Mind Meld the rest of us into ignoring the actual story so their scaling can actually work.
Gildarts, once he got past August haxut him on his fucking ass and made him commit suicide. So the gap wasn't that big to begin with. It's was his ability to LITERALLY ignore damage.
Irene lost to Wendy and Erza. Wendy was able to counter this woman's best spells consistently. That happened.
Haku blitzed Irene, and no diffed her. She only was able to do anything because of her 400+ years of experience and the fact her magic is literally "Counter-Hax".
If she didn't have Wendy's help. Irene would be a doll still. Haku would have no reason to tank those attacks or play possum. (See how easy it is to make unfounded claims because it sounds good)
Irene's best feats put her below Suzaku. Compare his duel with a DG lvl dragon with hers. Compare her duel with Haku to his. Give him the same opening Haku got and she's dead. His Underworld slash, sends her a$$ to the underworld.
You can complain about how you would have written it, or what they should have done, but none of that shit is Germaine to the story
Ignia has said he's stronger than them since his fucking debut. An feats support it. So show that Selene is equal.
Dogramag the Earth Dragon whose entire powerset it buffed towards defense yeah? Them having trouble with his defense, when Suzaku strugggled to beat Human Selene, somehow invalidates that victory?? Please, since the rest of your "Irene is the goddess" crew can't do it, make that bullshit make sense bro. I'll wait
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That's only if you ignore that it literally took Irene and Wendy working together to win.
An if you ignore that we are blatantly told that Irene has her OWN FUCKING MAGIC, and has had this magic THE ENTIRE FUCKING TIME.
An if we ignore you once again, CHERRY PICKING the parts of Selene's statement that works for your argument. Either she was too strong for Wendy to handle bc of her magic like Selene said (and therefore had that magic the entire time for Selene to sense) or she has no magic of her own and it's simply Wendy's own power that is somehow a danger. Can't be both.
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It's literally the exact same group of guys for the past 100+ pages trying to Vulcan Mind Meld the rest of us into ignoring the actual story so their scaling can actually work.
Gildarts, once he got past August haxut him on his fucking ass and made him commit suicide. So the gap wasn't that big to begin with. It's was his ability to LITERALLY ignore damage.
Irene lost to Wendy and Erza. Wendy was able to counter this woman's best spells consistently. That happened.
Haku blitzed Irene, and no diffed her. She only was able to do anything because of her 400+ years of experience and the fact her magic is literally "Counter-Hax".
If she didn't have Wendy's help. Irene would be a doll still. Haku would have no reason to tank those attacks or play possum. (See how easy it is to make unfounded claims because it sounds good)
Irene's best feats put her below Suzaku. Compare his duel with a DG lvl dragon with hers. Compare her duel with Haku to his. Give him the same opening Haku got and she's dead. His Underworld slash, sends her a$$ to the underworld.
You can complain about how you would have written it, or what they should have done, but none of that shit is Germaine to the story
They be acting like they don't watch other anime and this shit happens. Characters don't remain stagnant. Every anime does this. Timeskip happens so characters can get stronger. Hell Ichigo wasn't even on aizen level until he came back from dangai and that was like three months or something I can't remember correctly. But the point I'm trying to make is that characters get stronger. Serena being gildarts level in Alvarez doesn't matter in the current setting except mashima states it. Gildarts got stronger just like the rest of the cast. It's crazy that people are saying current gildarts is going to scale to Alvarez gildarts. Gildarts went from bluenote/jura level to Serena level in one year. It's not hard to think. Fuck, I know mashima is trash in power scaling but y'all be acting as if you want him to spoonfeed you. Authors don't need to spell everything out, that's why feats exist. I swear if one piece was fairy tail some MFS would deadass argue that pika the guy Zoro fought in dressrosa is stronger than king or something like that. Characters don't remain stagnant. Mashima is too busy to give a fuck about explicitly stating that ddsk>s12
It's another reason why I'm excited for mashima's new series. I'm tired of dealing with this mfs. They be carrying their fanboyism over to pl discussion. I prefer Eileen to selene I've stated that many many times but I don't go around saying shit like Eileen scales to the dg or igneel.
Ignia has said he's stronger than them since his fucking debut. An feats support it. So show that Selene is equal.
Dogramag the Earth Dragon whose entire powerset it buffed towards defense yeah? Them having trouble with his defense, when Suzaku strugggled to beat Human Selene, somehow invalidates that victory?? Please, since the rest of your "Irene is the goddess" crew can't do it, make that bullshit make sense bro. I'll wait
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That's only if you ignore that it literally took Irene and Wendy working together to win.
An if you ignore that we are blatantly told that Irene has her OWN FUCKING MAGIC, and has had this magic THE ENTIRE FUCKING TIME.
An if we ignore you once again, CHERRY PICKING the parts of Selene's statement that works for your argument. Either she was too strong for Wendy to handle bc of her magic like Selene said (and therefore had that magic the entire time for Selene to sense) or she has no magic of her own and it's simply Wendy's own power that is somehow a danger. Can't be both.
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It's literally the exact same group of guys for the past 100+ pages trying to Vulcan Mind Meld the rest of us into ignoring the actual story so their scaling can actually work.
Gildarts, once he got past August haxut him on his fucking ass and made him commit suicide. So the gap wasn't that big to begin with. It's was his ability to LITERALLY ignore damage.
Irene lost to Wendy and Erza. Wendy was able to counter this woman's best spells consistently. That happened.
Haku blitzed Irene, and no diffed her. She only was able to do anything because of her 400+ years of experience and the fact her magic is literally "Counter-Hax".
If she didn't have Wendy's help. Irene would be a doll still. Haku would have no reason to tank those attacks or play possum. (See how easy it is to make unfounded claims because it sounds good)
Irene's best feats put her below Suzaku. Compare his duel with a DG lvl dragon with hers. Compare her duel with Haku to his. Give him the same opening Haku got and she's dead. His Underworld slash, sends her a$$ to the underworld.
You can complain about how you would have written it, or what they should have done, but none of that shit is Germaine to the story
Irene only gave Wendy strategies, she didn’t power up with any of her magic, it was all Wendy’s power, otherwise she would assume her Irene form. She said it was because the coexisted and Irene did not act as a parasite that Wendy was fine, read the chapter again. And Gildarts was already a wre from his own arm traumatizing his body, and August barely felt a thing, really August did not even need to do that, but the plot demanded that he have a crisis. Irene won despite killing herself, she only struggled because of Wendy as Irene gave Erza a power up that allowed her to fight for as long as she did. Haku did not blitz Irene as she would need to actively take Wendy’s magic to do that which would show that she has reaction timing, plus she reacted to Acnologia which shows consistency. But like you said, she had exper which made her skilled in combat and aid Wendy with knowledge, not power ups from herself. Haku was down and out as his spell was removed and that happens when they lose consciousness. Selene stated that Irene‘s magic is a danger to Wendy, meaning that her power is greater than Wendy’s who managed to defeat Haku who scales to Suzaku, by transitive properties, Irene scales above Suzaku. the same Suzaku who lost to human Ignia and human nerfed Dog Dude who is already weaker than the other DGs? You see how wrong his feat is?
DLwe just don’t go by any speculations that doesn’t confirm any information about character training that did or did not happen in the story. Like with Natsu after Tartaros, he fought briefly with Gildarts that he even drew blood from him. Ichigo could sense Aizen’s energy while others didn’t which he represents potential, he had the power but didn’t tap into it. They only get stronger if they confirm it. Gildarts in Aldoron was not considered a threat to Aldoron despite his power being unstable, and yet Nerfed Zeref was that killed the seed. Gildarts is likely stronger slightly than GS back in Alvarez but that does not confirm he did get stronger over time just because, remember Gildarts has a difficult time keeping his power under control. Not Hiro’s fault for making Spriggans still relevant.
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And if that is not enough then how about this compsrison, Dragon Selene verse Georg and dragon Acno vs Jellal, for the former, Georg was even given the statement that he was stronger than his own subordinate Suzaku who supposedly “defeated Selene” in human form, and it all happened effortlessly in on casual paw strike, ending Georg and causing Suzaku to not react in time.
while with Acno, Jellal was not only able to intercept intentionally killing Acno’s attack in human form, but even dodged dragon Acno’s breath attack at point blank range. And if that is not enough, Jellal managed to survive being crushed under Dragon Acno’s hand overtime, not only did he retain consciousness, he was still able to move and use magic.
now for arguments sake, we will give both of these Dragon characters the benefit of the doubt that they are as casual as possible, but even then, if we take Selene’s statement of being serious in human form against Suzaku seriously, that would put a tier or two different in strength against extremely casual Dragon form level. Meaning that Georg who is stronger than Suzaku stated by the latter was defeated effortlessly is massively stronger than her human form, and Jellal survived and dodged said attacks from a Acno dragon form who scales to Selene’s dragon form.
and not only that, the pressure difference between both situations is clear, as a sudden impact strike against a human body has less pressure than sustained pressure overtime for a human, meaning that Jellal survived worse than Georg did.
and to put this into perspective, Jellal was defeated soundly by August who scales to Irene was well, and if that is not enough, August even blocked an attack by Gildarts by surprise physically, so by comparison he would still react to Jellal anyway.
but hey, that is what Hiro puts in, this is just going with the flow.
but for the sake of discussion about Irene since that is what some people complain aboug, going by what Hiro likely intends, Irene is still stronger by statements and power lore, if not, Irene is still stronger by visual scaling comparisons.
For some reason, there’s a common belief that Gildarts didn’t get stronger between the Alvarez war and the 100YQ. There’s already being confirmation that they all got stronger in the past year? Aside from that, are we gonna ignore the fact that this is the same guy who is known for getting insane power ups? You couldn’t have read FT and the sequel and actually think this.
Did he? I don’t recall a statement like that, i mean if Gildarts was not a danger in the sequel against Aldoron, who Gildart’s is know to not really control his power, i doubt he had a massive power increase since then. And this is coming from Hiro who stated that Gildarts is too strong for the story.
I found out something crazy. Natsu was using dragon force against acnologia. Who was the people saying Erza beats DF natsu. He legit stronger than his whole guildmates. Lol I deadass wanna know who was saying Erza>>DF natsu
This doesn't make sense to me. X793 gildarts is not the same gildarts back in Alvarez arc. Characters get stronger. Do you guys not even watch other anime . Characters get stronger after a timeskip. There's no reason to believe that x793 gildarts scales to his past self. Ignia was never equal to selene. Only selene thought the Dgs was equal. Aldoron after waking up said after he gathers his powers he was going to go after the remaining Dgs. Only selene thought they were equals and they are not. Ignia legit on another level. August and Eileen aren't stronger than bdsk well they're stronger than haku as for misaki suzaku and kirin there's argument to be made. Stop using Alvarez arc to scale x793 characters. Characters get stronger it's not a new thing every anime does this. Y'all be acting like this is the first time this stuff happens. Do you want mashima to be spoon-feeding you everytime?
x793 Gildarts may have become stronger (which has never been shown), but we have no idea how strong he has become. He could be stronger than he was during the Alvarez arc, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is stronger than August. Unless x793 Gildarts shows us feats that place him above August/Eileen, he is still inferior to them. Saying the opposite is pure headcanon.
Both Ignia & Selene was equal in their human form as it was shown in the manga, and Ignia was the first to transform into a dragon during the fight. If you consider Suzaku stronger than Human Selene, then he is also stronger than Human Ignia.
Mashima himself stated that Eileen was not affected by power creep, but are we supposed to believe you rather than him?
Ignia has said he's stronger than them since his fucking debut. An feats support it. So show that Selene is equal.
Dogramag the Earth Dragon whose entire powerset it buffed towards defense yeah? Them having trouble with his defense, when Suzaku strugggled to beat Human Selene, somehow invalidates that victory?? Please, since the rest of your "Irene is the goddess" crew can't do it, make that bullshit make sense bro. I'll wait
It was literally shown in the manga that Selene and Ignia were equal in their human forms.
Ignia also said to be more powerful than Acnologia, despite having avoided him for years out of fear of being killed.
That totally invalidates Suzaku win. Selene is a liar, and she wanted to reach Georg just to kill him. Dogra wasn't just defending against Suzaku's attacks, he was actually dealing more damage to him than Selene did. Natsu and Suzaku had to team up and nerf Dogra even further just to beat him, you gotta realize how dumb it is to think that a nerfed Dogra is stronger than human Selene while she was already more powerful than him even before he got nerfed.
Some people are literally brain dead. The damage a dragon gets in human form goes bye when they transform to a dragon. Why does ignia transforming into a dragon first matters. Explain to me why it's matters?
Are you dumb or what. Ignia and selene was never equals. Ignia never considered himself on the level of any of the dragon god. He literally told selene not to compare her level to his own, he called natsu a loser for losing to merchphobia. Selene literally tried to blindside ignia and he reacted but what happened in the dragon form when ignia according to you guys try to blindside she got wrecked. It's not hard to piece information together. It was literally never shown. Aldoron doesn't even think they're equals, he said after gathering his powers he was going to go after the other dragon gods including ignia. Did you miss this part?
That totally invalidates Suzaku win. Selene is a liar, and she wanted to reach Georg just to kill him. Dogra wasn't just defending against Suzaku's attacks, he was actually dealing more damage to him than Selene did. Natsu and Suzaku had to team up and nerf Dogra even further just to beat him, you gotta realize how dumb it is to think that a nerfed Dogra is stronger than human Selene while she was already more powerful than him even before he got nerfed.
Bro you know absolutely nothing about power scaling . Have you not heard that some people have better defense than others. Dogramag has better defense than selene. Sure selene has higher magic power and attack power than him. Dogramag just has a better defense than human selene. Do you not know that some people are just have better durability than others even though they're stronger than them. Sigh
The guy literally doesn't even know what s currently going on in his manga. What more evidence do you want that mashima's words doesn't mean anything. What he shows in the manga is the real deal
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Eileen/Erza fanboys I guess since natsu made acnologia dodge that means natsu>>Eileen right or Natsu>>Erza right .
Some people are literally brain dead. The damage a dragon gets in human form goes bye when they transform to a dragon. Why does ignia transforming into a dragon first matters. Explain to me why it's matters?
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Are you dumb or what. Ignia and selene was never equals. Ignia never considered himself on the level of any of the dragon god. He literally told selene not to compare her level to his own, he called natsu a loser for losing to merchphobia. Selene literally tried to blindside ignia and he reacted but what happened in the dragon form when ignia according to you guys try to blindside she got wrecked. It's not hard to piece information together. It was literally never shown. Aldoron doesn't even think they're equals, he said after gathering his powers he was going to go after the other dragon gods including ignia. Did you miss this part?
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Bro you know absolutely nothing about power scaling . Have you not heard that some people have better defense than others. Dogramag has better defense than selene. Sure selene has higher magic power and attack power than him. Dogramag just has a better defense than human selene. Do you not know that some people are just have better durability than others even though they're stronger than them. Sigh
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The guy literally doesn't even know what s currently going on in his manga. What more evidence do you want that mashima's words doesn't mean anything. What he shows in the manga is the real deal
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Eileen/Erza fanboys I guess since natsu made acnologia dodge that means natsu>>Eileen right or Natsu>>Erza right .
The fact that he transforms into a dragon first leads us to believe that their human forms are equal in addition to their feats.
Dragon Ignia > Dragon Selene > Human Ignia = Human Selene. They was equal during their fight in human form.
You change your mind about power scales every week and you try to make me look like someone who knows nothing
You genuinely believe that a heavily nerfed human Dogra has better defense than an unnerfed Human Selene? Dogra also dealt more damage to Suzaku than Selene. In that case, why is Dogra considered less powerful than Selene if he has better attack and defense than her?
Your only argument to contradict Mashima is that he doesn't know anything about his own manga?
. Characters get stronger after a timeskip. There's no reason to believe that x793 gildarts scales to his past self. Ignia was never equal to selene. Only selene thought the Dgs was equal. Aldoron after waking up said after he gathers his powers he was going to go after the remaining Dgs. Only selene thought they were equals and they are not. Ignia legit on another level. August and Eileen aren't stronger than bdsk well they're stronger than haku as for misaki suzaku and kirin there's argument to be made. Stop using Alvarez arc to scale x793 characters. Characters get stronger it's not a new thing every anime does this. Y'all be acting like this is the first time this stuff happens. Do you want mashima to be spoon-feeding you everytime?
