Discussion Fairy Tail vs Spriggan Twelve

WoWfan

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No reason to believe he was wrong, he knows more about it than anyone in the manga.
Pheonix failed too.
There is without actual proof it works, this is the first time anyone has seen it, even he was surprised, if it takes a dead power to kill Zeref, Gray would have been up to the job, or even Keyes with his necromancy. failure is not the same as unable to
 
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Seven777

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There is without actual proof it works, this is the first time anyone has seen it, even he was surprised, if it takes a dead power to kill Zeref, Gray would have been up to the job, or even Keyes with his necromancy. failure is not the same as unable to
Yes, and the reason he was suprised was because he thought it would kill him, so I'm just going to go ahead and say it would. Gray doesnt have the power of the dead. As for Keyes, Zeref knows about Keyes and still thought Natsu could do it, why is it different? Ask Zeref, or Mashima.
Sure, and Zeref could have ended the world, just a few more steps and he would have done so. Too bad he's so stupid and so weak.
 

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Yes, and the reason he was suprised was because he thought it would kill him, so I'm just going to go ahead and say it would. Gray doesnt have the power of the dead. As for Keyes, Zeref knows about Keyes and still thought Natsu could do it, why is it different? Ask Zeref, or Mashima.
Sure, and Zeref could have ended the world, just a few more steps and he would have done so. Too bad he's so stupid and so weak.
That is a big assumption to make with no evidence backing it, yes he does since his Father gave him that power, there go, if power of the dead from Keyes cannot kill Zeref, then Natsu’s power of Igneel would not be enough, now E.N.D. power is more compatible to defeat Zeref, yet he would get back up regardless, he was heading towards the portal, he was stopped by Natsu, and is “shocked” as well.
 

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That is a big assumption to make with no evidence backing it, yes he does since his Father gave him that power, there go, if power of the dead from Keyes cannot kill Zeref, then Natsu’s power of Igneel would not be enough, now E.N.D. power is more compatible to defeat Zeref, yet he would get back up regardless, he was heading towards the portal, he was stopped by Natsu, and is “shocked” as well.
Zeref's done centuries worth of research trying to kill himself, he can make those kinds of assumptions. That aside, it's simply what the manga portrayed. Natsu would've killed Zeref, without much doubt.
No. Zeref knew about both Keyes and Gray, didn't acknowledge them, but he did acknowledge Igneel's power, which means Zeref thought Igneel's power could do what those two could not. Yep, and the fact that he was stopped is what's so hilarious.
 

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Zeref's done centuries worth of research trying to kill himself, he can make those kinds of assumptions. That aside, it's simply what the manga portrayed. Natsu would've killed Zeref, without much doubt.
No. Zeref knew about both Keyes and Gray, didn't acknowledge them, but he did acknowledge Igneel's power, which means Zeref thought Igneel's power could do what those two could not. Yep, and the fact that he was stopped is what's so hilarious.
and assumptions are just that, assumptions without any evidence to back them up, if he knew about it then he would have done it a long time ago, again, power of the dead is not really any evidence to help kill him considering other examples. If Igneel's power could do the job then he would have had Igneel kill him centuries ago when they first met. there are too many plot holes for this so called power of the dead to be an actual way to kill him, considering that he heals right away.
 

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and assumptions are just that, assumptions without any evidence to back them up, if he knew about it then he would have done it a long time ago, again, power of the dead is not really any evidence to help kill him considering other examples. If Igneel's power could do the job then he would have had Igneel kill him centuries ago when they first met. there are too many plot holes for this so called power of the dead to be an actual way to kill him, considering that he heals right away.
It's portrayal from the manga, so it's fine by me, otherwise Happy's whole emotional speech was for nothing. As for why Zeref didn't do it, he didn't know how... that is, until Natsu gave him the answer. Igneel also wasn't dead centuries ago
 

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It's portrayal from the manga, so it's fine by me, otherwise Happy's whole emotional speech was for nothing. As for why Zeref didn't do it, he didn't know how... that is, until Natsu gave him the answer. Igneel also wasn't dead centuries ago
It wasn't for nothing, nothing about that situation if it worked or not was not okay, you just don't let your friend die for nothing, that doesn't mean anything, there was no answer to give, that was assumption on Zeref's part, END's power was more capable of such a task, Igneel's power was not special then either,
 

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It wasn't for nothing, nothing about that situation if it worked or not was not okay, you just don't let your friend die for nothing, that doesn't mean anything, there was no answer to give, that was assumption on Zeref's part, END's power was more capable of such a task, Igneel's power was not special then either,
It is, Mashima presented a method of killing Zeref, and in the end forced Happy to stop it to progress the plot. If it wouldn't have worked, Mashima could've just let Natsu hit him and fail.
As for there being an answer to give, Zeref disagrees with you. Igneels power, Fairy Heart, Mavis' curse, END, Fairy Tail had all these weapons to kill Zeref, and they could've done it very early on, Zeref just had a bit of plot armor protecting him, that's all, no big deal.
 

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It is, Mashima presented a method of killing Zeref, and in the end forced Happy to stop it to progress the plot. If it wouldn't have worked, Mashima could've just let Natsu hit him and fail.
As for there being an answer to give, Zeref disagrees with you. Igneels power, Fairy Heart, Mavis' curse, END, Fairy Tail had all these weapons to kill Zeref, and they could've done it very early on, Zeref just had a bit of plot armor protecting him, that's all, no big deal.
It is a matter of chance, which is not what you do with friends, to gamble something that would cause them suffering like that, and Happy saved his friends whether it would work or not. And the method is flawed by continuity standards. Igneel’s power doesn’t work as there are several other powers similar to that which I presented, END would work but Natsu can’t control it well and didn’t really awakened it till Zeref punched a hole in the book, FH would not work as it is just infinite energy and they would not risk it for the cost involved, Mavis’ Curse would only work if she loves him enough. So really two which only one is viable to use.
 

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It is a matter of chance, which is not what you do with friends, to gamble something that would cause them suffering like that, and Happy saved his friends whether it would work or not. And the method is flawed by continuity standards. Igneel’s power doesn’t work as there are several other powers similar to that which I presented, END would work but Natsu can’t control it well and didn’t really awakened it till Zeref punched a hole in the book, FH would not work as it is just infinite energy and they would not risk it for the cost involved, Mavis’ Curse would only work if she loves him enough. So really two which only one is viable to use.
Except you don't know that they're similar, you're guessing that they're similar. Zeref knows though, he knows about each other power, and still determined that Igneel's was the way to go. So, on the one hand, I have Zeref. Centuries of research gone into his curse, as well as Natsu, as well as Happy, all believing Zeref dies to Natsu in that moment. On the other hand.... I have you, the guy who thinks Jacob has country busting punches. Hmmm, who do I believe...? Sorry friend, I have no love for Zeref, but I think I'm gonna have to take his word, as well as the word of both Natsu and Happy, as well as the general portrayal from the manga, over yours.
 

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Except you don't know that they're similar, you're guessing that they're similar. Zeref knows though, he knows about each other power, and still determined that Igneel's was the way to go. So, on the one hand, I have Zeref. Centuries of research gone into his curse, as well as Natsu, as well as Happy, all believing Zeref dies to Natsu in that moment. On the other hand.... I have you, the guy who thinks Jacob has country busting punches. Hmmm, who do I believe...? Sorry friend, I have no love for Zeref, but I think I'm gonna have to take his word, as well as the word of both Natsu and Happy, as well as the general portrayal from the manga, over yours.
He does not know, he said “maybe“, they are powers relating to dead things, powers from the dead, Igneel’s is not any better, it is just his guess.
Even Zeref was having doubts about it as still only a maybe
Jacob’s strength is more believable since it is stated multiple times that he was on the same level of strength as he other Spriggan, even Brandish makes the comparison, and even her strength scales to Gajeel’s who could stagger a Dragon God (disregarding his Dragon durabillity)
How can Natsu even know it works when he never used it before because once using it means it’s gone, that doesn’t make any sense unless Igneel told him it would which he didn’t.
The logic of Igneel’s power being special has too many plot holes to even be believable, it maybe strong but not special.
 

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S12 lost the way they did coz of the author's inability at the time to write competent antagonists , as simple as that. I have no idea why this constitutes a discussion devolving into "what would happen if they used their ability correctly" scenario , because it's pointless. We're not assuming a particular person can do something unless they have shown the ability to do it. Wanna blame something ? Blame the trash writing , not coming up with speculations of your own about something never shown in the story. Spriggans were done bad by the bad writing ; it's unfortunate but we can't do anything about it. Their arc is completed and they're history at this point.

Either way , considering the question at hand , out of all the Spriggans Brandish , Dimaria , Neinhart , Jacob and Serena are featless. Wahl had a fight with unhealthy Laxus , he got overwhelmed once Laxus cured himself. Invel had a brief exchange with Gray but not enough to warrant giving him any feats. Leaving top 3 the only ones relevant enough to hold a discussion are Ajeel and Bloodman , Ajeel because of his fight with Elfman when he himself was injured and Bloodman coz of his intangibility and suicide attack.

I don't see any scenario in which Fairy Tail doesn't win this , Gildarts alone takes on August , Irene gets handled by Erza and Wendy , Larcade gets taken care of by Natsu as Natsu is a virgin and won't fall to Larcade's strongest and most threatening spell. If in case we assume Natsu is affected by RIP like he was in manga , then substitute Natsu with Laxus who has got long distance nukes in his arsenal , so he can remain out of his range. The rest of FT can take on the remaining 2 Spriggans.

/closed
 
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He used his negative feelings for his final attack, Natsu’s flames were burning him, that by definition is losing control via exceeding heat limit, warping space time is just as dangerous as that, the movie would disagree as the power of the Phoenix which would have destroyed the world scales to Zeref as stated by the MC. Zeref said that FH alone would end the world, Neo Eclipse was need to recreate reality.
And also Fairy Heart.

No, burning yourself doesn't mean you're losing control of your magic. It just means the flames were so hot that his resistance to fire couldn't protect him. Losing control would mean that Natsu could not creating fire, and he clearly could. He could have extinguished his flames at any time.

Zeref never said that Fairy Heart could destroy the world. He said that Fairy Heart was a power fitting for the end of the world, and he was planning on ending the world with Neo Eclipse. But whatever, I'm not arguing against someone who thinks base Zeref can planet bust.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Even Natsu can’t beat Zeref as he was going to get back up moments later
Natsu burned Zeref's magic away. His curse would undo his injuries, sure. But Zeref would have been been reduced to the power level of a regular human for the foreseeable future, like Mercphobia was.
 

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And also Fairy Heart.

No, burning yourself doesn't mean you're losing control of your magic. It just means the flames were so hot that his resistance to fire couldn't protect him. Losing control would mean that Natsu could not creating fire, and he clearly could. He could have extinguished his flames at any time.

Zeref never said that Fairy Heart could destroy the world. He said that Fairy Heart was a power fitting for the end of the world, and he was planning on ending the world with Neo Eclipse. But whatever, I'm not arguing against someone who thinks base Zeref can planet bust.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



Natsu burned Zeref's magic away. His curse would undo his injuries, sure. But Zeref would have been been reduced to the power level of a regular human for the foreseeable future, like Mercphobia was.
FH just gives the user the energy for spells for how many times it uses. Yes it does, losing control does mean having something you use negatively afflict you as well. Not being able to create fire means his powers were either canceled or he ran Out of energy, his flames do not burn out conventionally as Zancrow stated. Yes he did, when he stabbed Natsu, nope, he was planning to recreate reality with NE, not simply ending it. It doesn’t matter if he can or not, he scales to Phoenix’s power which can destroy the world.

He just burned away FH, not his regular magic, it was just the Time Magic he got, Merc was more because of what happened with White Out Iirc
 
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Axiomus

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FH just gives the user the energy for spells for how many times it uses. Yes it does, losing control does mean having something you use negatively afflict you as well. Not being able to create fire means his powers were either canceled or he ran Out of energy, his flames do not burn out conventionally as Zancrow stated. Yes he did, when he stabbed Natsu, nope, he was planning to recreate reality with NE, not simply ending it. It doesn’t matter if he can or not, he scales to Phoenix’s power which can destroy the world.

He just burned away FH, not his regular magic, it was just the Time Magic he got, Merc was more because of what happened with White Out Iirc
Doesn't matter. Zeref literally had Fairy Heart's power glowing in his hands when he stabbed Natsu. He also went all out with everything, including FH's power, in his final exchange against Natsu. After Natsu and Zeref clashed fists, Zeref tried to use Fairy Heart to reverse time again. It didn't work because Natsu was burning it away.

No, Natsu never lost control of his powers. Natsu burned himself because his flames were hotter than what his body can handle, but he could still fully control his flames and stop them at any time. Losing control does not mean using something that negatively affects you. Iced shell negatively affects Gray, but using it doesn't mean he loses control over his powers. Losing control simply means that, get this, you can't control your powers. That simply never happened to either Natsu or Zeref. They had full control over their powers throughout their entire fight.

Natsu burned away all of Zeref's magic, including Fairy Heart. Natsu didn't selectively burn Fairy Heart. He burned all the magic that Zeref had. Ankhseram's curse might have healed his wounds, but Zeref would be a regular human being for the foreseeable future. Natsu's on the other hand, still had enough power to go at Acnologia a few minutes later. He may have been down an arm, but he'd still be in better fighting shape than Zeref because he would still be able to use magic.

Mercphobia losing his powers had absolutely nothing to do with white out. Faris was planning on using Mercphobia's power to fight Ignia. The fact that Mercphobia lost his power fighting Natsu is something she explicitly didn't want to happen.

Zeref can't destroy the world lol. Acnologia is stronger than the entire Alvarez Empire (Zeref included) and he can't destroy the world. Zeref's best attacks are based Natsu level. Even when Zeref had Fairy Heart, his best attack and Natsu's best attack combined were nowhere near planet busting.
 

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That could be just magic power, and FH has Space Time properties, not a regular magic powered attack, Going all out for Zeref with FH means his attack would not lose any fire as it would just be replenished endlessly. Which is warping space time with Natsu‘s flame, and that is beyond his control to not be burned himself by it and his soul, it actually does, it is the lack of the ability to provide conscious limitation of impulses and behavior as a result of overwhelming emotion, just like Natsu not putting a limit on his fire, which has been the case as Prolyusica stated had he developed a Magic tumor. Iced Shell is a cost, not a exceeding limit, not the same, Natsu could not control his powers in the sense of controlling the heat of his flames. Not really as Zeref was going to be fine in a bit as he said he underestimated him so all of his magic was not burned away, just FH, Natsu has the combined power of Seven DS, Acno was motion sick, paralyzed and lost his magic immunity. Zeref scales to Phoenix, simple as that, it doesn’t matter what he shows or not, appearance does not matter, it would be much worse with space time warping had they gone any further with heat at that temperature which would create a black hole. Well considering that he was still a dragon after he was defeated makes it clear that Natsu did not have anything to do with the Merc losing his power would still likely have something to do with Whiteout since he still has no magic power and considering the Girl with Glasses and Merc talked the results afterward, but now that I think about it, if not, It could be because of his flames that are from Ignia which is stated to burn anything, where as with Zeref it was right away at the point of his defeat that FH was burned away, since Savage flames is basically reality warping.
 
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S12 lost the way they did coz of the author's inability at the time to write competent antagonists , as simple as that. I have no idea why this constitutes a discussion devolving into "what would happen if they used their ability correctly" scenario , because it's pointless. We're not assuming a particular person can do something unless they have shown the ability to do it. Wanna blame something ? Blame the trash writing , not coming up with speculations of your own about something never shown in the story. Spriggans were done bad by the bad writing ; it's unfortunate but we can't do anything about it. Their arc is completed and they're history at this point.

Either way , considering the question at hand , out of all the Spriggans Brandish , Dimaria , Neinhart , Jacob and Serena are featless. Wahl had a fight with unhealthy Laxus , he got overwhelmed once Laxus cured himself. Invel had a brief exchange with Gray but not enough to warrant giving him any feats. Leaving top 3 the only ones relevant enough to hold a discussion are Ajeel and Bloodman , Ajeel because of his fight with Elfman when he himself was injured and Bloodman coz of his intangibility and suicide attack.

I don't see any scenario in which Fairy Tail doesn't win this , Gildarts alone takes on August , Irene gets handled by Erza and Wendy , Larcade gets taken care of by Natsu as Natsu is a virgin and won't fall to Larcade's strongest and most threatening spell. If in case we assume Natsu is affected by RIP like he was in manga , then substitute Natsu with Laxus who has got long distance nukes in his arsenal , so he can remain out of his range. The rest of FT can take on the remaining 2 Spriggans.

/closed
You are right one of the problems with the Spriggan was the bad writing. The Spriggans were supposed to be one of the most powerful enemies Ft has faced but Hiro made a lot of the good guy characters way stronger so they didn’t do as well as others villains in the pass.

I would say it depends on who’s fighting who because Wendy is needed to counter Irene spells, only two people were seen to resist Dimaria time magic, it’ll most likely be very hard to beat Serena if they’re an element magic type, and only holder type mages(or just someone using an objec) can hurt August.
so if they fight anyone else they’ll have a higher chance of winning
 

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You are right one of the problems with the Spriggan was the bad writing. The Spriggans were supposed to be one of the most powerful enemies Ft has faced but Hiro made a lot of the good guy characters way stronger so they didn’t do as well as others villains in the pass.

I would say it depends on who’s fighting who because Wendy is needed to counter Irene spells, only two people were seen to resist Dimaria time magic, it’ll most likely be very hard to beat Serena if they’re an element magic type, and only holder type mages(or just someone using an objec) can hurt August.
so if they fight anyone else they’ll have a higher chance of winning
well it is mostly because they had counters to that other non-FT characters had and contributed to the fight. It is more if the Spriggans were out of character or not in a compromising position they would have a better chance.
 

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I really comes down to who is writing the story and what they would do or not do.
  • Does Mavis use Fairy Heart to boost the Guilds magic?
  • Do Lucy summon the CSK? Does he appear on his own?
  • Do we see Silver keys stardress?
  • Does Erza use Nakagami?
  • Does Dragon Force boost Wendy Enchantment ability?
  • Does Natsu take into Atlas flames? Flames of Savage emotion?
  • Does Gray use her DeS ability to eat Ice?
The list goes on and on.

There are scenarios in which Fairy Tail even without the help of other guilds could still win against Alveraz though.

Let's put out a few scenarios battle wise in FT favor:
  • Lucy vs Jacob: Could have easily written it as Lucy goes into Horologium Stardress, by definition Stardress is the ability to incorparate the spirits power into Lucy not specific to any group of keys, and protects herself from Transport and summons Leo to negate Jacobs Stealth magic. Urano Metria one shots Jacob. Multiple scenarios on how this battle could go.
  • Erza vs Nienheart: Had Erza requip Nakagami from the beginning and slice the magical historia negating them before one shotting Nienheart with a Nagami slice.
  • Gray vs Invel: Gray actually use his DeS ability to eat Ice combined with his Ice molding Ice immunity power and his ability to mold Invel ice to defeat him from the get go. Should have been able to eat Ice lock as it is made of Ice. Invel should have been at a severe disadvantage against Gray.
  • Mirajane vs Bloodman: Takeover should have let her absorb his power and win against him. What difficulty I have Zero idea.
  • Wendy vs Ajeel: Wendy body anomaly magic combined with Wind should have allowed her to negate Ajeel sand and his dehydration ability.
  • Makarov vs Brandish: Makarov Titan magic which allows him to manipulate the size of his body combined with his trnasformation magic should have allowed her to somewhat Negate Brandish Mass manipulation. At least the being used on him. Makarov Light spells should have one shot her. Since light has no mass Brandish magic should have no effect on it.
Those are the solo battles and didn't even use Fairy Heart, yet.
  • Gajeel/Erza vs Whal: Whal is a machine made of metal that Gajeel should be able to eat and power up from. Erza is versatile enough to counteract most of Whal attacks.
  • Mirajane/Gray vs Larcade: Devil slayers magic combined with Takeover weakens Larcade enough to be taken out. As an Etherious both should have significant effects on him.
  • Gildarts/Makarov/Laxus vs Serena: Gildarts crash magic overwhelms Serena Dragon slayer magic. Of course high difficulty battle for Gildarts.
  • Lucy/CSK vs Dimaria: CSK feels a disturbance in the flow of time and summons himself to earth(Done it before) and unfreezes Lucy. CSk transfers all the Zodiac powers into Lucy and Lucy uses Human Subordination to weaken the human part of Dimaria but merges with the god soul as that is what happens when Human subordination is used on something non human. regardless if it was Zoldeo or Capricorns original magic as they were bound for 18 years together and both Leo and Capricorn knew of the workings of the magic it should be able to be performed by Capricorn.
  • Entire Guild vs Irene/August: Mavis uses Fairy Heart to boost the guilds power to fight against the duo. Natsu demon seed grows and he begins to demonify. August can't copy Natsu Demon ability because he doesn't have curse energy and Natsu begins to burn away at August magic and body. Wendy enchants Erza sword with Wind/Lightning/Fire/Metal Dragon Slayer magic. Mavis cast Fairy Law drastically weakening the duo power and they are taken out.
  • Natsu vs Zeref; Flames of Savage emotions destroy Zeref.
These are just scenarios in which Hiro could have wrote the Fairy Tail guild alone facing off and defeating the Spriggan 12.
 

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The only scenario in which FT wins (other than with plot armor) is the one where Mavis knows how to use FH (not having it be uncontrollable and killing everyone with infinite Etherion blasts) and uses it to defeat Alvarez. Otherwise the Spriggans slaughter FT.
 
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