Game Fan League Discussion Thread

[Kaoz]

Think about it, there isn't really a reason for Golden Pair to not be able to Synchro for almost an entire match. At the same time, it's a good contrast with Bestial Synchro -which is usually just better in the Fan League. After all, Chitose and Tachibana had to stop using it IIRC, but we never heard of anything like that from a regular Synchro pair.

That used to be my thought process too at some point, but the "odd" thing about it is that the Bestial Aura is actually supposed to increase the user's Stamina. This increase is already incorporated in Tachibana's base stats, but Chitose got Stamina +1 in the team shuffle and that's probably from the new aura. So pretty much the only conclusion you can draw from that is that synchronizing drains stamina quicker than usual. Regarding Oishi and Kikumaru, they've never synchronized for long periods of time. The most was 5 games in the nationals finals and it seemed like they kinda steamrolled their opponents during that time. 5 games only corresponds to about 2 of our points though.

I think what you say about Synchronization is more of an issue that characters with 3 or less Stamina face in general. Since you need to win 4/7 points, you're forced to win at least 1 of them without relying on your Specials. That's why e.g. Chitose by himself isn't as good as, say, Tachibana in this game. If they were only playing the equivalent of a 1 set match, Chitose would be better, but in this format he's more likely to lose.

Also, going back to my "characters learning Muga through the season" idea, maybe the same could be done with Tachibana's Beast Aura -maybe Muga's reeplacement if the player is in his team?. Characters that learn it would have to use stamina -as Kamio and Tetsu did- but Tachibana could have an auto that makes him immune -or it could at least have a lower cost- to stamina use from moves with "bestial" on it -yes, it would include Bestial Synchro, I'm trying to make that one worth it as well

If someone achieves an S support with Tachibana, they actually gain Bestial Synchronization and not the regular one already. Could be extended to the base version too, we'll see.

 

[Hardy]

But Synchro using stamina goes against what both of the Mutsu's profiles say regarding their endurance, doesn't it?

"He always plays at the same pace and usually consumes stamina quickly. However, when playing with his brother any physical and psychological burden is decreased and as a result the impact on his overall durability doesn't seem to be significant."

"He and Yuuma can grasp each others fatigue and cover for each other as necessary."

Yeah, I saw Tachibana's part in Bestial Synchro, wanted him in my team to test that actually ^^ Maybe whoever gets that synchro with him can learn Bestial Aura, yeah.

 

[Kaoz]

I thought that's specifically because they're twins (hence their Auto), not because of Synchro. It's hard to tell without having the Stamina descriptions of all Synchro users I suppose.

 

[Hardy]

I thought that's specifically because they're twins (hence their Auto), not because of Synchro. It's hard to tell without having the Stamina descriptions of all Synchro users I suppose.

Yeah I noticed you had it in their auto, but I think it's the following:

They are twins -> played and spent a lot of time together -> can synchro due to that -> coordinated moves and understanding each other make them spend less stamina. I think any pair that is able to synchro should be coordinated enough -and know each other- to make the last part happen.

On the other hand, you could consider it's that magical thing twins have in fiction that allows them to feel things together.

But, for example, if the Kisarazus were in the league, I doubt they would use less stamina if paired together just cause they are twins.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 21, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 21, 2017 ---

This is super rough but:

Spoiler: Beast stuff

Pairs that have reached support level S are able to use the Special Synchronization. If one of the characters in the pair is Tachibana, the pair gains access to Bestial Synchronization and Bestial State instead.

Bestial State [Auto]:
Negated if Stamina is 0. Only activates during decisive points. Speed increases by 1, Power increases by 1. At the end of the Extra step, ACE if every opponent's combined Speed and Power is less than 7.

Golden Lion [Auto]:
Bestial State cannot be negated and activates every point.

Spoiler: Muga

Players with a total <26 that have participated in 3 matches against players with a higher base total -both rivals if doubles- are able to use the State of Self Actualization.

State of Self Actualization [Auto]:
Negated if Stamina is 0 and mental <5. Copy up to one character that your team played against and its Counters each point (if trigger conditions are fulfilled). Copy up to one of that character's Formations and up to one of that character's Serves/Specials with Lv < Technique. At the end of each point a character was copied this way, Stamina decreases by 0.5.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 21, 2017 ---

The <26 was a place holder to avoid top players copying everything.

 

[Kaoz]

On the other hand, you could consider it's that magical thing twins have in fiction that allows them to feel things together.

And float. Don't forget about the floating.

But, for example, if the Kisarazus were in the league, I doubt they would use less stamina if paired together just cause they are twins.

Well, maybe? I can't say I've given it much thought in recent years. The thing is that the most solid and straight-forward piece of information we have on Synchro is that it drains stamina quicker than playing normally does. So I'm having a hard time convincing myself that reducing its cost is the way to go when the more vague stuff we have on it can be attributed to other things without making any outrageous claims.

Regarding Muga, don't mind the effect, but the condition is too lax. It's a state only a select few people even have the potential to achieve, so I think it should be treated as such.

 

[Hardy]

I WOULD NEVER FORGET THE FLOATING.

Don't get this the wrong way - ;-; -, but would you mind mentioning the sources of the following? I rather read/make my own interpretations myself. You don't have to link anything, just mentioning the source is fine:
-Bestial Aura improving stamina.
-Chitose's stamina buff. (I assume this is from Konomi's pages about in-match buffs?)
-Synchro stated/linked to stamina loss.

If I got you right, this all comes from those pages I mentioned, correct? Your interpretation of those is that Bestial Aura gave them a stamina buff that allowed them to endure Synchroing -and all of it combined made the Bestial Synchro-?

Well, it got lax because of the <26 thing, but I dont think it's so bad though -how many players at around <26 total can consistently get to 5 mental? Not counting doubles, just in case.

Alternativly, lower it to <= 20 '-'

 

[Kaoz]

-Bestial Aura improving stamina.

Tachibana's Stamina description:
"Due to the excessive power gained from Moujuu, even his stamina is increased. So even in a long match, he can continue to play his own tennis style without breaking it. He definitely has a lot of stamina."

-Chitose's stamina buff. (I assume this is from Konomi's pages about in-match buffs?)

Left one is Chitose's, right one is Tachibana's. From top to bottom: Speed, Power, Stamina, Mental, Technique.

-Synchro stated/linked to stamina loss.

Chat log from May 14, 2014:
Sai: apparently tsuge thinks that tachibana and chitose wouldve won had they not used synchro
Sai: since it drained their stamina

Your interpretation of those is that Bestial Aura gave them a stamina buff that allowed them to endure Synchroing -and all of it combined made the Bestial Synchro-?

Yes. If BS drains Stamina and BA increases it, the only logical conclusion is that Synchro has a stamina draining effect.

Well, it got lax because of the <26 thing, but I dont think it's so bad though -how many players at around <26 total can consistently get to 5 mental? Not counting doubles, just in case.

No, what I meant is that someone like, I dunno, Kenya, could never hope to achieve Muga. Only special players even have a chance of unlocking it.

 

[Hardy]

Crap I made you check ancient chat logs, sowy. I do recall you mentioning that quote in the past.

Uhm, well, another way to read it is that Bestial Aura/Bestial Synchro does drain stamina, but Tachibana mastered it to the point that it also empowers his endurance -similar-ish to Goku and Gohan mastering SS1 in the Cell Saga in DB. Chitose showed he could keep up with it, so he gained stamina to reflect that -just a tiny bit, though, as he ended up giving up later.

I like that Bestial Synchro is BS

But Kenya can't get to 5 mental, he wouldn't be able to achieve that Muga D: Sengoku does, tho '-'

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 21, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 21, 2017 ---

Chitose by himself isn't as good as, say, Tachibana in this game. If they were only playing the equivalent of a 1 set match, Chitose would be better, but in this format he's more likely to lose.

Btw I think this fits the characters nicely, but I'm biased because I rly like Tachibana.

 

[Kaoz]

But Kenya can't get to 5 mental, he wouldn't be able to achieve that Muga D: Sengoku does, tho '-'

Oishi then, same difference. The other issue is that some people that do have the capacity to get Muga won't fit the requirements anymore, Shiraishi to name the most prominent example. The easiest way to go about this would probably be to just make a list of people that could use it if certain conditions are fulfilled.

Regarding Synchro, there's merit to your interpretation, but I can't say I'm really convinced.

 

[Hardy]

Oishi then, same difference. The other issue is that some people that do have the capacity to get Muga won't fit the requirements anymore, Shiraishi to name the most prominent example. The easiest way to go about this would probably be to just make a list of people that could use it if certain conditions are fulfilled.

Regarding Synchro, there's merit to your interpretation, but I can't say I'm really convinced.

But Muga! Oishi only works in doubles, which I asked you to ignore '-' -does it make sense if Muga is Singles only?

I do agree though, I'll think of something better than it just being Mental based. I saw that players like Hara, Taira and Miyako could get it which sounds too weird. Is the general idea somewhat fine though? I thought someone like Siegfried -for example- could achieve it, it would fit his character -mental 5! Siegfried that worked hard because of Tezuka.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 22, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 21, 2017 ---

Sorry, was bored, you can completely ignore this if you wanna ^^'

Spoiler: Muga

MSers that have participated in 3 matches against players with a higher base total -if doubles, both opponents- are able to use the State of Self Actualization.

State of Self Actualization [Auto]:
Only activates in Singles. Negated if Stamina is 0 and Mental <= 4.5 -without Reserve's effects. Mental cannot decrease. Copy up to one character that your team played against and its Counters each point (if trigger conditions are fulfilled). Copy up to one of that character's Formations and up to one of that character's Serves/Specials with Lv < Technique. At the end of each point a character was copied this way, Stamina decreases by 0.5.

Spoiler: List of characters that could achieve it and techniques they can copy

Excitable! Jiro Akutagawa: Level 4 Specials.

Monster! Jin Akutsu: Level 3 Specials.

Keigo Atobe: Level 6 Specials.

Evolution! Keigo Atobe: All Specials.

Ryoma Echizen: Level 5 Specials.

Super Rookie of the East! Ryoma Echizen: Level 6 Specials.

Prodigy! Shusuke Fuji: Level 4 Specials.

Overthrow the Top! Next Generation! Wakashi Hiyoshi: Level 3 Specials.

Data Warrior! Sadaharu Inui: Level 3 Specials.

Gin Ishida: Level 2 Specials.

Right! Munehiro Kabaji during the first point: Level 2 Specials.

Devil Mode! Akaya Kirihara: Level 1 Specials.

Iceman! Liliadent Krauser: Level 2 Specials.

Perfect Scenario! Hajime Mizuki: Level 3 Specials.

Ruffian! Takeshi Momoshiro: Level 2 Specials.

Masaharu Nio: Level 4 Specials.

Genichiro Sanada: Level 5 Specials.

Kiyosumi Sengoku: Level 3 Specials.

Kuranosuke Shiraishi: Level 4 Specials.

Rivalry! Emil Siegfried: Level 4 Specials.

Max Rivalry! Emil Siegfried: Level 5 Specials.

Kippei Tachibana: Level 2 Specials.

Kunimitsu Tezuka: Level 6 Specials.

Super Rookie of the West! Kintaro Toyama: Level 3 Specials.

Max Super Rookie of the West! Kintaro Toyama: Level 4 Specials.

Master! Renji Yanagi: Level 4 Specials.

Seiichi Yukimura: Level 5 Specials.

10 base characters can achieve it. 13 more with Autos and Counters.

Edit: One every 10 characters doesn't sound so bad, but with Autos and Counters it changes to less than 1 every 5, not really the best I guess.

Second Edit: Dammit Chitose

Third Edit: Well, looking at the names, the list is pretty decent if only base stats + stat buffs from the league -Kintarou and Siegfried- are considered.

 

[Kaoz]

Sorry, was bored, you can completely ignore this if you wanna ^^'

Well, looking at your list there are still a number of issues. For instance, Devil Akaya and Muga Akaya are mutually exclusive paths, he couldn't use both at the same time. In his case, Devil Mode basically replaced Muga as a personal pinch power-up. I would also argue that Fuji's Closed Eyes is a personalized Muga variant.

I think it'd be much simpler to just compile a list of characters that can do it based on our judgement rather than any specific stats, the latter already didn't work well for multi-ball strikes. For the activation condition, I'd have it be a counter for the first time that activates when Stamina is 0 against an opponent with higher total, then it automatically copies a move from the previous opponent or something. After that it can be used normally. For BA anyone who has a Lv 3 support with Tachibana could be considered.

Now for the list itself, going by the pair puri, "'Muga no Kyouchi' can only be attained by a small handful of players" and the basis for determining whether or not someone can attain it is "their high abilities and their ability to concentrate." Confirmed are:

Akutagawa: TnK Path (Excited basically emulates this already though)
Inui: SnK Path
Shiraishi: HnK Path
(Toyama: TnK Path)
Yanagi: SnK Path

Out of the remaining MSers, I think Akutsu (TnK Path), Kaidou (regular) and Siegfried (regular) might be able to get it. From the HSers, probably only Tokugawa, but he already has Asura and I don't think the two can co-exist in which case he'd probably rather use Asura than Muga.

 

[Hardy]

I guess a list would be the best -actually my first idea was having it only for the Next Generation bunch + some others.

I recall reading that pair puri and getting hyped for TnK Jirou, lol. My problem with it is that Konomi had little space and used it in some important-ish characters that would make sense, but:
-If it's no coincidence that both SnK potential players listed are Data Players, why would Mizuki -and Mitsuya for that matter- not be considered?
-If I were to take the name of Hyakuren literal, why would hard workers like Kaidou -that you actually mentioned with Siegfried- and Momoshiro -and even Shishido- be left out?
-I was thinking the same about Tokugawa, that Muga was fitting but that Asura would get in the way. But what would stop Oni -hard work- Irie -reads opponents like a book- and even Dorgias from getting it?

You meant that after two matches against people with a higher total, in the third one they'd activate it during decisive points -and after that it would be unlocked-? I still think Mental should have a small part in it, for example Kaidou can somewhat consistently get to 4 Mental, wouldn't it be fitting that this in-match buff would be the catalyst for Muga?

Yeah I recall that Devil Mode is Kirihara's own branch in the Modes tree, separating him from Muga -I think you did a huge analysis of this back in the day actually- it was just that he needed +3 mental in my concept and the bastard turns into Devil Mode immediatly after activating Desire for Victory thrice -maybe if he were to unlock Muga it would have priority over DM, or is it too out of character nowadays?

Offtopic but I recall Zatono saying that the day Akutsu gets TnK in the manga, he would drop it for sure '-'

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 22, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 22, 2017 ---

Oh btw, why Stamina 0 for Muga's first activation?

 

[Kaoz]

-If it's no coincidence that both SnK potential players listed are Data Players, why would Mizuki -and Mitsuya for that matter- not be considered?
-If I were to take the name of Hyakuren literal, why would hard workers like Kaidou -that you actually mentioned with Siegfried- and Momoshiro -and even Shishido- be left out?

Because Konomi said otherwise. That's not a very satisfying answer, but it's the only one I have. I'm sure he could've added in an extra name or two if he had wanted to (especially considering that they take up less space in Japanese), but he was pretty clear that as far as the doors are concerned, those five are the only options among the MSers. The only reason I even consider Akutsu a possibility despite that is that his attitude change was only revealed much later, but he's an exception in that regard.

Mitsuya and the other HSers are possibilities, I just personally feel they aren't special enough.

-I was thinking the same about Tokugawa, that Muga was fitting but that Asura would get in the way. But what would stop Oni -hard work- Irie -reads opponents like a book- and even Dorgias from getting it?

I think Oni and Irie's other abilities are superior to the first two doors. So even if they were to unlock them, it would be a downgrade. Dorgias might be possible.

You meant that after two matches against people with a higher total, in the third one they'd activate it during decisive points -and after that it would be unlocked-? I still think Mental should have a small part in it, for example Kaidou can somewhat consistently get to 4 Mental, wouldn't it be fitting that this in-match buff would be the catalyst for Muga?

I was briefly considering that Mental would have to be higher than base Mental, but some characters we are entertaining here don't actually have abilities to boost their Mental, so that's a bit of a problem.

maybe if he were to unlock Muga it would have priority over DM, or is it too out of character nowadays?

Devil Mode should take priority. It's also supposed to be stronger I'm pretty sure, otherwise Rikkai would've focused on getting Akaya to the level that he can control Muga instead of forcing him into a position in which he gains an entirely new move.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 22, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 22, 2017 ---

Oh btw, why Stamina 0 for Muga's first activation?

Because (1) that's when you're in a true pinch and (2) it'd suck if it overwrote an ability that would've won you the match and made you lose instead.

 

[Hardy]

How about this, I think I nailed it.

Spoiler: Muga

If any of the following players have participated in 2 matches against players with a higher base total -if doubles, both opponents- they are able to use the [Counter] Awakening.

Spoiler: Player list

Jiro Akutagawa

Jin Akutsu

Senri Chitose

Shinji Ibu

Sadaharu Inui

Kaoru Kaido

Akira Kamio

Kuranosuke Shiraishi

Emil Siegfried

Renji Yanagi

Awakening [Counter]: Cannot be copied. Cannot be negated. Triggers only once in the season. Triggers only during decisive points if Stamina is 0 and Mental >=4 against a player with a higher base total -if doubles, both opponents. Activates State of Self Actualization- Pinnacle of Brillance if the player has the [Auto] Data Tennis, Bestial State if the player has a Support Level >=3 with Tachibana- which cannot be negated and becomes available for the rest of the season. The character copied is the player's last opponent, and the Special copied from this character is the one with the highest level used that the player can copy.

State of Self Actualization [Auto]:
Negated if Stamina is 0. Mental cannot decrease. Copy up to one character that your team played against and its Counters each point (if trigger conditions are fulfilled). Copy up to one of that character's Formations and up to one of that character's Serves/Specials with Lv < Technique. At the end of each point a character was copied this way, Stamina decreases by 0.5.

Bestial State [Auto]:
Speed increases by 1, Power increases by 1. At the end of the Extra step, ACE if every opponent's combined Speed and Power is less than 7.

Pinnacle of Brilliance [Special ‒ Lv 4]:
Activation: Only activates in Singles. If opponent's Mental is less than 7, opponent's Serves/Specials with Lv <= 5 are negated.
Data: Mental increases by 2. If Mental is equal to or exceeds opponent's Mental, Speed increases by 2, Technique increases by 2.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 22, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 22, 2017 ---

Devil Mode should take priority. It's also supposed to be stronger I'm pretty sure, otherwise Rikkai would've focused on getting Akaya to the level that he can control Muga instead of forcing him into a position in which he gains an entirely new move.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 22, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 22, 2017 ---

Because (1) that's when you're in a true pinch and (2) it'd suck if it overwrote an ability that would've won you the match and made you lose instead.

LOL at getting trolled by Muga and losing due to it.

Rikkai knows shit btw, that's why they lost.

 

[Kaoz]

Pretty close. Kamio, Ibu and Chitose shouldn't be on the list though; I meant anyone with a Lv 3 Tachibana support should be able to unlock BA under those conditions. Also, if Inui and Yanagi go straight to SnK, why wouldn't the others that can get one of the doors activate those straight away too?

Rikkai knows shit btw, that's why they lost.

How so? Akaya would've lost either way.

 

[Hardy]

Because TnK is too strong to just give it like that and I don't even remember Hyakuren being a thing in the fan league atm ^^'

I found odd that Washio and Sengoku could potentially get the Bestial State -and wording it without a list sounded complex.

Akaya won with Devil Mode in the finals actually D: thing is, while Rikkai was teaching their ace DM, Seigaku let Ryoma do wtv which ended up in him mastering Muga, all of its doors, and winning against them.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 22, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 22, 2017 ---

Oh, found it, I think only Niou is currently able to use it:

Pinnacle of Mastery [Special ‒ Lv 4]:
Data: Power increases by 2. If Power exceeds an opponent's Power and that opponent's Power and/or Technique increases through a Serve/Special with Lv <= 5, Power/Technique increases by double that increase.
Extra: At the end of the Extra step, if Power/Technique increased based on an opponent's Serve/Special, copy that Serve/Special's Extra.

Tbh Shiraishi going straight into it doesnt't sound bad at all, even more considering the PPs said no one is nearly as close as him to Hyakuren.

Edit: wouldn't it super suck in Shiraishi considering he can easily yet accidentally negate those specials?

 

[Kaoz]

Because TnK is too strong to just give it like that and I don't even remember Hyakuren being a thing in the fan league atm ^^'

I dunno, Jiro and Akutsu aren't exactly the cream of the crop. And how would they progress from one to the other?

Regarding Hyakuren, Niou has it:

Pinnacle of Mastery [Special ‒ Lv 4]:
Data: Power increases by 2. If Power exceeds an opponent's Power and that opponent's Power and/or Technique increases through a Serve/Special with Lv <= 5, Power/Technique increases by double that increase.
Extra: At the end of the Extra step, if Power/Technique increased based on an opponent's Serve/Special, copy that Serve/Special's Extra.

I found odd that Washio and Sengoku could potentially get the Bestial State -and wording it without a list sounded complex.

-Awakening of the Beast [Reserve/Auto]:
Lv 3 Support partners' Speed increases by 1, their Power increases by 1 and their Stamina increases by 1.

The only thing that Chitose, Kamio and Tetsu have in common is that they share a strong bond with Tachibana, so anyone who meets that requirement should be affected, no? Could just decrease his base Support Lv with Washio and Suzuki to 1, then it's not as fast.

Akaya won with Devil Mode in the finals actually D: thing is, while Rikkai was teaching their ace DM, Seigaku let Ryoma do wtv which ended up in him mastering Muga, all of its doors, and winning against them.

Well, I guess. But Akaya still won his match and chances are he wouldn't have unlocked the doors like Ryoma did either. Maybe the first two, but most certainly not TnK.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 22, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 22, 2017 ---

And that's what happens when you don't refresh before posting.

Tbh Shiraishi going straight into it doesnt't sound bad at all, even more considering the PPs said no one is nearly as close as him to Hyakuren.

Edit: wouldn't it super suck in Shiraishi considering he can easily yet accidentally negate those specials?

Well, there's different solutions to that:

• During points Hyakuren is activated, Bible of Naniwa is negated. (Probably the better one.)
• The opponent's moves are negated and Shiraishi copies the boosts anyway.

 

[Hardy]

I dunno, Jiro and Akutsu aren't exactly the cream of the crop. And how would they progress from one to the other?

Not really a need to progress... Maybe they could go straight to TnK, it needs more thought though. What was your idea for a general TnK?

Spoiler: Random

Perfect Magic Volley [Special ‒ Lv 6]:
Activation: Cannot be copied. After activation, Stamina decreases by 0.5 instead of 1.
Data: Speed increases by 1. Power increases by 1. Technique increases by 5. SB increases by 1.
Extra: ACE if every opponent's Mental is less than 6.

Perfect Fighting [Special ‒ Lv 6]:
Activation: Requires Formless Tennis. After activation, Stamina decreases by 0.5 instead of 1. All opponents' Serves/Specials with Lv <= 5 are negated.
Data: Speed increases by 6, Power increases by 2. SB increases by 1.

Or

Perfect 10 Ball Strike [Special ‒ Lv 6]:
Data: Speed increases by 4, Power increases by 1, Technique increases by 3. SB increases by 1.
Extra: ACE if every opponent's Speed is less than 5, their Mental is less than 5 or their Technique is less than 5. If ACE, all opponents' HP decreases by the difference between 10 and that opponent's Mental.

-Awakening of the Beast [Reserve/Auto]:
Lv 3 Support partners' Speed increases by 1, their Power increases by 1 and their Stamina increases by 1.

The only thing that Chitose, Kamio and Tetsu have in common is that they share a strong bond with Tachibana, so anyone who meets that requirement should be affected, no? Could just decrease his base Support Lv with Washio and Suzuki to 1, then it's not as fast.

I like the idea of Awakening of the Beast, but how would you word that considering the players need to play 3 matches against people with a higher total?

Decreasing the supports could work.

Well, I guess. But Akaya still won his match and chances are he wouldn't have unlocked the doors like Ryoma did either. Maybe the first two, but most certainly not TnK.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 22, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 22, 2017 ---

And that's what happens when you don't refresh before posting.



Well, there's different solutions to that:

• During points Hyakuren is activated, Bible of Naniwa is negated. (Probably the better one.)
• The opponent's moves are negated and Shiraishi copies the boosts anyway.

But, in the end, it doesn't matter how you look at it: Rikkai severely underrated Muga. Neither Sanada nor Yukimura were interested in learning it due to it's drawbacks and because they knew how to counter it -until it was too late, then in NPoT we have Yukimura trying to have fun and stuff- and even Yanagi admitted that they were wrong when they chose to direct Kirihara towards DM. I think they were underrating Muga, and instructed Kirihara following this, but in the end they were proven wrong in several ways. That's just my opinion though.

Dw, it happens, I just kinda regret not posting it all together cause I made you go back and check on Niou.

Hyakuren could have an "Opponent's Specials that increase Power or Technique cannot be negated" clause, but idk how good would that be.

 

[Kaoz]

What was your idea for a general TnK?

For Data, it's always the attributes of the base move plus 2 SPE, 2 POW and 1 SB. Activation and Extra numbers are adjusted according to the Special's new Lv.

I like the idea of Awakening of the Beast, but how would you word that considering the players need to play 3 matches against people with a higher total?

"Only affects Lv 3 or higher Support partners. Negated if that partner uses [list of moves]. Triggers for the first time... For the rest of the season..."

Something like that probably. The moves would be Muga and the doors as well as the Spirits.

Rikkai severely underrated Muga. Neither Sanada nor Yukimura were interested in learning it due to it's drawbacks and because they knew how to counter it -until it was too late, then in NPoT we have Yukimura trying to have fun and stuff- and even Yanagi admitted that they were wrong when they chose to direct Kirihara towards DM. I think they were underrating Muga, and instructed Kirihara following this, but in the end they were proven wrong in several ways. That's just my opinion though.

Hard to say. It's not like they didn't know about the doors since they were aware of Tezuka's Hyakuren, maybe they didn't know how to open them though? It doesn't seem to be common knowledge and Chitose presumably did quite a bit of research. So if they didn't know it seems reasonable they'd look for other options. Also, I think Yanagi meant pushing Akaya towards DM was bad because of the negative side-effects, not that it's ineffective as an ability.

Hyakuren could have an "Opponent's Specials that increase Power or Technique cannot be negated" clause, but idk how good would that be.

I don't think it makes that much sense. Take Hadokyuu for instance. If he had to return one, Shiraishi would probably cancel it like Gin did, but once it's cancelled returning it with double the power doesn't sound like it should be possible.

 

[Hardy]

For Data, it's always the attributes of the base move plus 2 SPE, 2 POW and 1 SB. Activation and Extra numbers are adjusted according to the Special's new Lv.

Ah, I meant if you would make TnK its own general move or if Jirou and Akutsu would have their own versions -like the ones I did but properly following the bonuses, as I fucked up and changed it for Magic Volley, otw it would look like a clone of Tezuka.

Spoiler: Fixed

Perfect Magic Volley [Special ‒ Lv 6]:
Activation: Cannot be copied. After activation, Stamina decreases by 0.5 instead of 1.
Data: Speed increases by 2. Power increases by 2. Technique increases by 4. SB increases by 1.
Extra: ACE if every opponent's Mental is less than 6.

Perfect Fighting [Special ‒ Lv 6]:
Activation: Requires Formless Tennis. After activation, Stamina decreases by 0.5 instead of 1. All opponents' Serves/Specials with Lv <= 5 are negated.
Data: Speed increases by 6, Power increases by 2. SB increases by 1.

"Only affects Lv 3 or higher Support partners. Negated if that partner uses [list of moves]. Triggers for the first time... For the rest of the season..."

Something like that probably. The moves would be Muga and the doors as well as the Spirits.

Wait, I'm kinda lost, sorry. How would a partner of Tachibana's activate a Spirit or a Door? And how would it force Tachibana's partner to had played against 3 strong opponents?

Hard to say. It's not like they didn't know about the doors since they were aware of Tezuka's Hyakuren, maybe they didn't know how to open them though? It doesn't seem to be common knowledge and Chitose presumably did quite a bit of research. So if they didn't know it seems reasonable they'd look for other options. Also, I think Yanagi meant pushing Akaya towards DM was bad because of the negative side-effects, not that it's ineffective as an ability.

Ah, they didn't know for sure, but their stance against it -specially Sanada's- was that Muga was a waste of time and not worth the effort. Now they know better.

I'm not saying DM is bad or for sure worse than Muga, I just think that Rikkai did a decision in a topic they were actually quite ignorant back in the day. Later they ended up learning about it and its potential, and even learnt that DM had drawbacks they hadn't considered. So, their idea that DM > Muga seems outdated, and if they were to start coaching Kirihara from 0 NOW they would probably change routes.

I don't think it makes that much sense. Take Hadokyuu for instance. If he had to return one, Shiraishi would probably cancel it like Gin did, but once it's cancelled returning it with double the power doesn't sound like it should be possible.

Hmm, dunno if I explained myself properly -or if I just didn't get you now. I meant that Hyakuren could force moves not to be negated, so that the player can exploit them. It would be more like Shiraishi letting Gin hit his move to counter it, instead of negating it.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 22, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 22, 2017 ---

Uhm, if that Akutsu and that Jirou are too strong, maybe they could unlock Muga first then their TnK only if their team plays in the Finals? Plot power ftw