Fantasy Gray vs Mirajane

[IamtherealMirajane]

Gray still wins. Gray never acknowledged or admitted that Mirajane is superior to him.

Spoiler

This just displays Gray acknowledging the fact he can take Mirajane, Elfman, Skullion and Madmole altogether. Not that he can't take Mirajane alone.

Spoiler

This is meant to be more of a comic relief, but this also doesn't mean he can't take Mirajane at full health.

Spoiler

Erza fighting off Laxus after he wrecked Kyria kinda shows that the stronger members of Team Natsu weren't at their best against the Diabolos members. Especially if you consider the fact that Elfman was able to take on Madmole, lol. This either means they were strengthened by the White Wizard, the Diabolos members were holding back or that the Diabolos members were just not as strong as they were initially presented to be. Take your pick, I guess.

He was easily beaten by Skullion. How did he expect that he can solo the 4 mages? The last time i check he use his best effort to defeat Skullion. And he was only saved by Brandish. And among the four it was Mira who they are afraid to deal with and only her siblings can be use against her. And like what Gray said the perfect opportunity to deal with Mira is while she still injured because he was afraid to face her with full power which Juvia replied to him that he was a coward.

I dont think Gray can able to use the form he used when he fought END and Invel, because he thought that Juvia was dead. there was a Massive POF involved there. unless Juvia will put her life on the line.

People are just underestimating Elfman when in fact it clearly shows that he was the one took care on Ajeel ( with lissana as support) the one who Erza struggled with.

Erza was able to do damage against Laxus, because of the enchantment swords/ Dragon seal a new power up from her

We have yet to see any power up from Gray.

And Mira only use her weakest form w/o any new abilities but still made a draw against Skullion and give him bruises despite of his intagibility which DES Gray failed to do so.

BSS was able to knock out Jacob in 1 strike. And Jacob was durable enough to take multiple direct hits from Natsu, Lucy, Leo and Makarov but was only beaten by FDKM.

So far manga is consistent on the power of BSS. And the hype that Mira is getting.

Then there is halphas > Sitri>Limit Release Seilah>> Alegria. Each form is stronger than BSS. And we have to seen a new power from Mira on this arc.

You have yet to prove if WW strengthen the whited out fairy tail or if Diabolos are holding back because the last i check Skullion and Madmole were afraid that BK Slayers are now joining the fight. And they admitted that Strauss siblings are Stronger than they thought.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 2, 2020 ---

You don't need devil slaying magic to slay demons either, and Mirajane's best takeovers are etherious.

What im trying to say is devil slaying is a demon's curse/magic against a demon. And demon take over mage can take over this magic/curse. Tartarus Mira already did it although she struggled at first. And 2 years has passed to master it.

 

[Vis]

I won't vote for now but saying that my boy Gray can take out Skullion, Mirajane, Elfman and Madmole altogether is a huge BS.

I expected more from you @Vis

but remember this guys

Spoiler

no one is gonna low diff anyone when it comes to in-guild fights, especially when it comes to top tiers.

besides, Gray has a huge advantage. even if he wins with high diff, he would still be weaker.

That was a mistake, lol. I meant to say acknowledged that he can't, not the other way around.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 2, 2020 ---

He was easily beaten by Skullion. How did he expect that he can solo the 4 mages? The last time i check he use his best effort to defeat Skullion. And he was only saved by Brandish. And among the four it was Mira who they are afraid to deal with and only her siblings can be use against her. And like what Gray said the perfect opportunity to deal with Mira is while she still injured because he was afraid to face her with full power which Juvia replied to him that he was a coward.

Not once was it mentioned that Gray was scared to fight off Mirajane. I don't know where you're getting that from. He only ever gave off the impression that he doesn't think he can fight off Mirajane, Elfman, Madmole and Skullion altogether at the same time with nothing but Lucy and Cana as support, both of who would be out of their depth against such opponents. Which would be a fair deduction in all fairness.

I dont think Gray can able to use the form he used when he fought END and Invel, because he thought that Juvia was dead. there was a Massive POF involved there. unless Juvia will put her life on the line.

Adversely, that's like saying Mirajane's feats against Skullion shouldn't count either because that fight was with Mirajane under the impression that they did something to Lisanna. So no, their POF feats don't just go away.

People are just underestimating Elfman when in fact it clearly shows that he was the one took care on Ajeel ( with lissana as support) the one who Erza struggled with.

They dealt with Ajeel without having to worry about his intangibility. Ajeel's durability otherwise isn't the best, definitely not good enough to shrug off an FDK attack from Natsu.

Erza was able to do damage against Laxus, because of the enchantment swords/ Dragon seal a new power up from her

Erza was able to damage Laxus before the enchanted swords came into play and Dragon Seal hasn't been proven to be that much of an effective weapon against dragon slayers.

We have yet to see any power up from Gray.

I don't think we need to see one yet to go up against Mirajane if I'm being honest.

Only thing that's changed from before is that Mirajane has shown that she could tango with Skullion, whose entire team kind of lost standing this arc after their first battle in the previous one.

And Mira only use her weakest form w/o any new abilities but still made a draw against Skullion and give him bruises despite of his intagibility which DES Gray failed to do so.

And Natsu failed to even scratch Madmole with all his attacks before FDK while Elfman managed to do so. Unless you're claiming that Elfman is that much more superior to Base Natsu, then Skullion should also lose whatever credibility he had from any of the previous fights, or at least consider other possibilities, such as what I've mentioned from the post you quoted.

BSS was able to knock out Jacob in 1 strike. And Jacob was durable enough to take multiple direct hits from Natsu, Lucy, Leo and Makarov but was only beaten by FDKM.

This argument is way too overused that I honestly don't even care about rebutting it at this point. If this is the foundation of your argument, then agree to disagree to everything else.

So far manga is consistent on the power of BSS. And the hype that Mira is getting.

Then there is halphas > Sitri>Limit Release Seilah>> Alegria. Each form is stronger than BSS. And we have to seen a new power from Mira on this arc.

As far as I'm concerned, all Alegria does is use up all her magic power at once, BSS is what she uses to be able to fight longer. None of them are necessarily stronger because it's all the same character using it. There's no external power source there, just forms that allow her to use up her magical power in greater abundance.

You have yet to prove if WW strengthen the whited out fairy tail or if Diabolos are holding back because the last i check Skullion and Madmole were afraid that BK Slayers are now joining the fight. And they admitted that Strauss siblings are Stronger than they thought.

I don't need to prove it because I didn't claim it's what happened, it was a hypothetical I presented to make sense of the situation along with two other possibilities. If you can present me with something else that could explain why this situation, feel free to do so.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 2, 2020 ---

We don't actually know who did the damage to Madmole. The attack would've only had only been stronger than demolition fist. FDK Purgatory is still stronger. Even then it's a bit iffy, because attacks like demolition fist get stronger with emotions.

I feel like it would be a fair induction to assume it was Elfman given the fact that the earlier panels showed Mirajane focusing on Skullion. Same goes with Elfman on Madmole.

 

[Livinbreathineatin]

Gray has literally been hyping Mira up for the whole arc. Not only that, she currently has better feats than him. She fought on par with Skullion and had her strength acknowledged while Gray never replicated this. Gray didn’t stalemate Skullion, he lost.

We’re gonna see what happens in the next few weeks anyway. We’ll see.

 

[AmitDS]

Gray still wins. Gray never acknowledged or admitted that Mirajane is superior to him.

Spoiler

This just displays Gray acknowledging the fact he can take Mirajane, Elfman, Skullion and Madmole altogether. Not that he can't take Mirajane alone.

Spoiler

This is meant to be more of a comic relief, but this also doesn't mean he can't take Mirajane at full health.

Spoiler

Erza fighting off Laxus after he wrecked Kyria kinda shows that the stronger members of Team Natsu weren't at their best against the Diabolos members. Especially if you consider the fact that Elfman was able to take on Madmole, lol. This either means they were strengthened by the White Wizard, the Diabolos members were holding back or that the Diabolos members were just not as strong as they were initially presented to be. Take your pick, I guess.

Gray doesn't think that he can freeze Mirajane. He thinks it would be like when he froze Skullion. If Gray was stronger than Mirajane like you all say AND had an OP kryptonite advantage over her like you all say then this would not be the case and he wouldn't have to wait for her to be injured to take her down after saying and agreeing with Cana that he can't do any better against her than he did Skullion.

Cana tells asks him if he thinks freezing Mira would work as it didn't work on Skullion and he gets stumped as he realizes she is right. There is no way for people to spin this, well at least I thought, other than Mirajane is strong enough to resist DeS magic enough to not get beaten as easily as people presume. Gray also admits that Mirajane would be a pain to fight, he was wary of having to deal with not only Skullion, but Mirajane, he agreed that he couldn't freeze Mirajane just like he failed to freeze Skullion and then he agreed that Mirajane would be able to beat Skullion. Skullion beat Gray easily after Gray went all out. There is no reason to believe that Gray is lying. There is also no reason to deny that something is up with Mirajane and DeS magic since Gray is the one who put this out there in the first place. Gray is the one who said that Mirajane has no weakness, Mirajane and Skullion can't be frozen and stopped, he expected to take Mirajane when she was injured, he expects Mirajane to be able to beat Skullion.

DeS could be very effective against Mirajane, it could be effective but not OP or it could not be effective at all. Gray's statements give credence to the latter 2 possibilities and I don't understand why it's being ignored because people favor Gray or think he should be stronger because he got more fights earlier in the series and has DeS magic which he himself is apparently ignoring vs Mira.

Even if Gray beats her now, he already admitted that he waited for this moment to take her on and we see and know that she is injured as he says so it would still fail to prove that Gray > Mirajane in the present arc.

So yes Gray did acknowledge that Mirajane is superior to him when he said he can't freeze her, he thought she would be a pain to deal with, he lamented having to deal with her and Skullion while ignoring Elfman and Madmole and he now admits that he expected from the start that he'd have to wait to be injured before he took her on. He just didn't literally say, "Mirajane is superior to me."

 

[Seven777]

I don’t see why DeS advantage wouldn’t be a thing. At worst it doesn’t do extra damage and only partially undos takeovers like with Dimaria.

Gray hasn’t acknowledged Miras superiority, just that she is a threat. Insta freezing only works on fodders, when has Gray ever froze someone on par with him? In any case, we’ll see soon how Gray does, maybe Mira will beat him regardless of his injuries, who knows? He’s definitely beating Skullion in their next round though, I doubt Skullions hax besting Gray is vastly different from Kyrias hax doing in Erza. Skullion probably isn’t stronger than Gray, especially now that we know he isn’t the strongest member of Diablos

 

[AmitDS]

I don’t see why DeS advantage wouldn’t be a thing. At worst it doesn’t do extra damage and only partially undos takeovers like with Dimaria.

Gray hasn’t acknowledged Miras superiority, just that she is a threat. Insta freezing only works on fodders, when has Gray ever froze someone on par with him? In any case, we’ll see soon how Gray does, maybe Mira will beat him regardless of his injuries, who knows? He’s definitely beating Skullion in their next round though, I doubt Skullions hax besting Gray is vastly different from Kyrias hax doing in Erza. Skullion probably isn’t stronger than Gray, especially now that we know he isn’t the strongest member of Diablos

The reason it isn't considered'a thing' i.e. speculated to likely not be kryptonite to her, is because people on this forum claim that Gray low diffs Mira because of is DeS power YET Gray himself, who they claim is tiers above her, in addition to having DeS power, thinks freezing her would be like freezing Skullion, he thinks she'd be a pain like Laxus, Jellal and Gajeel, he didn't want to fight her until she was injured after fighting Skullion and he had said earlier that she has no weaknesses after the magics of him and Juvia were exploited.

If Gray was the only one with her exact weakness and it's to the extent that people claim i.e. he wins because of DeS, then why has the man himself said that she has no weakness, his freezing would work on her like it worked on Skullion (who is not a demon and was as powerful as Mirajane in her BSS) and why would he say he expected to have to take her when she's injured? There's more than enough clues that point to Gray's devil slaying power not working on Mira, at least to the extent that people wish, yet people on here just shrug it off as not true because he's a demon slayer and she turns into demons. If it were that simple then it wouldn't be stated that she performs as well as a non demon who she drew with vs his DeS magic and he would say she would be a pain and lumping her with said non demon.

He already admitted that she could beat Skullion when he couldn't so that's that when it comes to current power levels but in terms of the match up, his statements since Alvarez invaded and the fact that we never actually saw Mira vs DeS Gray hint at it not being effective or as effective as it would have been on other demons in the past. The reason is unknown BUT the general point is brought up by Gray himself.

Even if Gray doesn't think his DeS would be ineffective to her and it would be like him vs other demons in the past, the fact that he ranked her with Skullion in terms of how his DeS would work shows us that she could have an ability or a high enough power level, beyond his, to shrug it off as other characters have done vs their respective slayers.

Skullion is stronger than Gray. He beat him fair and square, without POF helping Gray, and countered all of his moves BEFORE he used his black ash to teleport him away. Everything Gray threw at him, he countered and we saw Gray counter him in between too so it wasn't like he had hax that gave him the win like Kyria vs Erza. They went back and forth, ice to ash, ash being frozen until Skullion used his strongest move, after dealing with Gray's. Skullion is also seemingly stronger than Madmole and Kyria since he beat Gray, drew with Mira while Kyria was handled by Erza in flame empress the 2nd time and Madmole drew with Elfman. He also is their leader, further showing that he's stronger than Kyria, who Erza thought was formidable and Madmole, who was standing up to base Natsu.

If this were any other pair, people wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it but since it's Gray and Mira, suddenly it's dismissed before the fight actually happens and after Gray has talked about how strong she is, how she wouldn't be frozen despite her supposed weakness and how she could beat the guy who beat him and who he thought was strong and an issue. If Lucy said that Lisanna wouldn't be affected much by her moves, Lisanna, Juvia and Erza would be a pain to deal with, Lisanna would beat a character who mid diffed her and she expected to wait for Lisanna to get injured by Juvia before she would take her then everyone would believe that Lucy < Lisanna and that Lisanna, though the method is unknown, can counter Lucy and her spirits powers. Everyone would wait for the chapters but agree that it's likely not in Lucy's favor. Why? Because of what Lucy would have said with regards to Lisanna's strength.

 

[Seven777]

The reason it isn't considered'a thing' i.e. speculated to likely not be kryptonite to her, is because people on this forum claim that Gray low diffs Mira because of is DeS power YET Gray himself, who they claim is tiers above her, in addition to having DeS power, thinks freezing her would be like freezing Skullion, he thinks she'd be a pain like Laxus, Jellal and Gajeel, he didn't want to fight her until she was injured after fighting Skullion and he had said earlier that she has no weaknesses after the magics of him and Juvia were exploited.

If Gray was the only one with her exact weakness and it's to the extent that people claim i.e. he wins because of DeS, then why has the man himself said that she has no weakness, his freezing would work on her like it worked on Skullion (who is not a demon and was as powerful as Mirajane in her BSS) and why would he say he expected to have to take her when she's injured? There's more than enough clues that point to Gray's devil slaying power not working on Mira, at least to the extent that people wish, yet people on here just shrug it off as not true because he's a demon slayer and she turns into demons. If it were that simple then it wouldn't be stated that she performs as well as a non demon who she drew with vs his DeS magic and he would say she would be a pain and lumping her with said non demon.

He already admitted that she could beat Skullion when he couldn't so that's that when it comes to current power levels but in terms of the match up, his statements since Alvarez invaded and the fact that we never actually saw Mira vs DeS Gray hint at it not being effective or as effective as it would have been on other demons in the past. The reason is unknown BUT the general point is brought up by Gray himself.

Even if Gray doesn't think his DeS would be ineffective to her and it would be like him vs other demons in the past, the fact that he ranked her with Skullion in terms of how his DeS would work shows us that she could have an ability or a high enough power level, beyond his, to shrug it off as other characters have done vs their respective slayers.

Skullion is stronger than Gray. He beat him fair and square, without POF helping Gray, and countered all of his moves BEFORE he used his black ash to teleport him away. Everything Gray threw at him, he countered and we saw Gray counter him in between too so it wasn't like he had hax that gave him the win like Kyria vs Erza. They went back and forth, ice to ash, ash being frozen until Skullion used his strongest move, after dealing with Gray's. Skullion is also seemingly stronger than Madmole and Kyria since he beat Gray, drew with Mira while Kyria was handled by Erza in flame empress the 2nd time and Madmole drew with Elfman. He also is their leader, further showing that he's stronger than Kyria, who Erza thought was formidable and Madmole, who was standing up to base Natsu.

If this were any other pair, people wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it but since it's Gray and Mira, suddenly it's dismissed before the fight actually happens and after Gray has talked about how strong she is, how she wouldn't be frozen despite her supposed weakness and how she could beat the guy who beat him and who he thought was strong and an issue. If Lucy said that Lisanna wouldn't be affected much by her moves, Lisanna, Juvia and Erza would be a pain to deal with, Lisanna would beat a character who mid diffed her and she expected to wait for Lisanna to get injured by Juvia before she would take her then everyone would believe that Lucy < Lisanna and that Lisanna, though the method is unknown, can counter Lucy and her spirits powers. Everyone would wait for the chapters but agree that it's likely not in Lucy's favor. Why? Because of what Lucy would have said with regards to Lisanna's strength.

The no weaknesses thing was comedy, like Brandish getting oneshot by Cana, and even if I were to take it seriously, Gray was wrong and likely didn’t consider Wahl creating lost magic.

As for freezing, it wouldn’t work on either of them because they’re not fodder. And Gray was willing to fight, the rest just talked him down because there were too many of them, which is smart

It may not work to the extent as normal demons, but it should at least work to the extent Cherries worked on Dims, perhaps partly undoing her takeovers.

Doubt it, Kyria beat Erza fair and square too. Kyria and Erza had a back and forth going as well, clashing blades, Kyria even busted Benizakura which is easily on the level of Skullion breaking out of Grays ice. Grays rematch with Skullion will likely go the route of Erzas rematch with Kyria, with Gray winning. Skullion might be closer in power to Skullion compared to Erza and Kyria, but I doubt Skullion is stronger.

Don’t really get the whole Lisanna section, but you seem to be implying there is some sort of bias against Mira. There isnt, Mira is near universally loved, people are just hesitant to give her the benefit of the doubt due to how often Mashima shafts her.

 

[Jko]

Lol, just bcs he has DeS doesn't make him equal to Mira. He needed DF Natsu's help to land a clean hit on Mard Geer to win.

Gray at this point has admitted through actions and implications that Mira is outright stronger than him. To him she doesn't have a weakness, someone who's capable of breaking through his DeS ice and not someone he can just take without them being injured.

He literally tries to say he can freeze them all and literally everyone shut it down and he himself didn't fight back against it.

Mira > Gray. Her performance and hype are above Gray's lol.

 

[AmitDS]

The no weaknesses thing was comedy, like Brandish getting oneshot by Cana, and even if I were to take it seriously, Gray was wrong and likely didn’t consider Wahl creating lost magic.

As for freezing, it wouldn’t work on either of them because they’re not fodder. And Gray was willing to fight, the rest just talked him down because there were too many of them, which is smart

It may not work to the extent as normal demons, but it should at least work to the extent Cherries worked on Dims, perhaps partly undoing her takeovers.

Doubt it, Kyria beat Erza fair and square too. Kyria and Erza had a back and forth going as well, clashing blades, Kyria even busted Benizakura which is easily on the level of Skullion breaking out of Grays ice. Grays rematch with Skullion will likely go the route of Erzas rematch with Kyria, with Gray winning. Skullion might be closer in power to Skullion compared to Erza and Kyria, but I doubt Skullion is stronger.

Don’t really get the whole Lisanna section, but you seem to be implying there is some sort of bias against Mira. There isnt, Mira is near universally loved, people are just hesitant to give her the benefit of the doubt due to how often Mashima shafts her.

Comic relief and it's a blatant lie and he's the man with the power which is her weakness? Less likely. Wouldn't he have just said "But Mira has no weakness except my power?!"

If the argument is that Gray > Mira because he's a DeS then how can his ice work on her in her weakest form in the same way it works on Skullion who is not a demon? And why are people saying his insta freeze was a move to use on fodders? He can freeze people in different ways and against Skullion he used his, as people say, 'named attack,' Ice Devil's Zeroth Long Sword. It wasn't just him freezing someone like he did Gomon or Avatar fodder.

Spoiler

Sheria needed Ultear to magnify her power many times over for her to fight and beat Dimaria with her slayer advantage, if I recall correctly.

Kyria's ability vs Erza is more akin to hax than Skullion's ash vs Gray. It didn't represent her overall power vs Erza's as she was being handled once that one ability was overcome. Gray, conversely, countered Skullion's powers at times then Skullion used other moves in a back and forth until he won.

Skullion has beaten Gray and tied with Mirajane with his abilities and without 'hax'. Kyria without her ability that only could work once on Erza was countered in a fight and then lost to Laxus easily when Erza barely lost to him. Gray could have or not but unlike Erza and Natsu he didn't win a rematch with his DE opponent so one can't say that he would surely have overwhelmed him had he fought him now, after his strongest moves failed.

And again Skullion is the leader and he tied with Mira while Madmole tied with Elfman and we both know Mira > Elfman.

There has to be a bias if Gray has been saying all these things and people are vehemently denying that Mira is somehow different from other demons. It's just a repetition of Gray is a devil slayer and Mira turns into a demon so he wins, as if we have never seen slayers have issues or even fail against characters the have the advantage over before.

I don't doubt that his powers are effective against her or could be revealed to be at some point, however what is being shown right now by Gray himself is that the effect isn't as great as people on here believe. Again, if Mira and Skullion are around the same level, Gray lost to Skullion and he thinks his DeS Ice would work on Mira in the same way it worked on Skullion who is not a demon, then that points to Mira being stronger than he is right now and having a higher resistance to his power than previously thought or enough to threaten him.

 

[Seven777]

Comic relief and it's a blatant lie and he's the man with the power which is her weakness? Less likely. Wouldn't he have just said "But Mira has no weakness except my power?!"

If the argument is that Gray > Mira because he's a DeS then how can his ice work on her in her weakest form in the same way it works on Skullion who is not a demon? And why are people saying his insta freeze was a move to use on fodders? He can freeze people in different ways and against Skullion he used his, as people say, 'named attack,' Ice Devil's Zeroth Long Sword. It wasn't just him freezing someone like he did Gomon or Avatar fodder.

Spoiler

Sheria needed Ultear to magnify her power many times over for her to fight and beat Dimaria with her slayer advantage, if I recall correctly.

Kyria's ability vs Erza is more akin to hax than Skullion's ash vs Gray. It didn't represent her overall power vs Erza's as she was being handled once that one ability was overcome. Gray, conversely, countered Skullion's powers at times then Skullion used other moves in a back and forth until he won.

Skullion has beaten Gray and tied with Mirajane with his abilities and without 'hax'. Kyria without her ability that only could work once on Erza was countered in a fight and then lost to Laxus easily when Erza barely lost to him. Gray could have or not but unlike Erza and Natsu he didn't win a rematch with his DE opponent so one can't say that he would surely have overwhelmed him had he fought him now, after his strongest moves failed.

And again Skullion is the leader and he tied with Mira while Madmole tied with Elfman and we both know Mira > Elfman.

There has to be a bias if Gray has been saying all these things and people are vehemently denying that Mira is somehow different from other demons. It's just a repetition of Gray is a devil slayer and Mira turns into a demon so he wins, as if we have never seen slayers have issues or even fail against characters the have the advantage over before.

I don't doubt that his powers are effective against her or could be revealed to be at some point, however what is being shown right now by Gray himself is that the effect isn't as great as people on here believe. Again, if Mira and Skullion are around the same level, Gray lost to Skullion and he thinks his DeS Ice would work on Mira in the same way it worked on Skullion who is not a demon, then that points to Mira being stronger than he is right now and having a higher resistance to his power than previously thought or enough to threaten him.

‘Her having no weaknesses except my power’ wouldn’t be as funny. It would also undermine the comedy of the next scene.

Because it is a move that only beats fodders. Everyone and their mothers can break out of ice.

Sure, but slayer advantage was still present in their fight. I don’t see why it wouldn’t be for Miras.

Not really, it was the same. Kyria used hax to win, Skullion used hax to win. Outside his hax Skullion demonstrates nothing beyond Grays strength, only equal.

One can say that, and I will. You can call it speculation, because it is. But I’m near certain Gray beats Skullion in a rematch.

No, Grays statements simply dont suggest Mira is stronger. No bias. He doesn’t want to fight the Strauss and the DEs at the same time, and he does want to fight Mira while she’s injured. Thats all the statements suggest.

DeS might not be as effective against Mira as normal demons, I can buy that, but it should be as effective as it was against Dim. Gray also didn’t say his ice affects Skullion the same as Mira, just that neither are likely to get frozen, which is obvious since freezing never works.

 

[Ramen]

Either way I'm going to say it's going to be a very tough fight. While on the inside I feel like there could be a shocker in this sequel and Mira wins this but I wouldn't be surprised if Gray takes in the end since they have to break the WW's control one way or another. Although, they could somehow break the control without a fight and then team Lucy along with Mira and Elfman take on the elite DES squad together.

Looking forward to seeing what happens.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 3, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 3, 2020 ---

‘Her having no weaknesses except my power’ wouldn’t be as funny. It would also undermine the comedy of the next scene.

Because it is a move that only beats fodders. Everyone and their mothers can break out of ice.

Sure, but slayer advantage was still present in their fight. I don’t see why it wouldn’t be for Miras.

Not really, it was the same. Kyria used hax to win, Skullion used hax to win. Outside his hax Skullion demonstrates nothing beyond Grays strength, only equal.

One can say that, and I will. You can call it speculation, because it is. But I’m near certain Gray beats Skullion in a rematch.

No, Grays statements simply dont suggest Mira is stronger. No bias. He doesn’t want to fight the Strauss and the DEs at the same time, and he does want to fight Mira while she’s injured. Thats all the statements suggest.

DeS might not be as effective against Mira as normal demons, I can buy that, but it should be as effective as it was against Dim. Gray also didn’t say his ice affects Skullion the same as Mira, just that neither are likely to get frozen, which is obvious since freezing never works.

Is Black Ash hax? I though turning everything into ash was the hax but the two spells he used were his own.

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

Is Black Ash hax? I though turning everything into ash was the hax but the two spells he used were his own.

It's another spell with maybe higher power(Turning things to ash is his ability). Natsu uses different fire techniques but they all burn.

 

[AmitDS]

‘Her having no weaknesses except my power’ wouldn’t be as funny. It would also undermine the comedy of the next scene.

Because it is a move that only beats fodders. Everyone and their mothers can break out of ice.

Sure, but slayer advantage was still present in their fight. I don’t see why it wouldn’t be for Miras.

Not really, it was the same. Kyria used hax to win, Skullion used hax to win. Outside his hax Skullion demonstrates nothing beyond Grays strength, only equal.

One can say that, and I will. You can call it speculation, because it is. But I’m near certain Gray beats Skullion in a rematch.

No, Grays statements simply dont suggest Mira is stronger. No bias. He doesn’t want to fight the Strauss and the DEs at the same time, and he does want to fight Mira while she’s injured. Thats all the statements suggest.

DeS might not be as effective against Mira as normal demons, I can buy that, but it should be as effective as it was against Dim. Gray also didn’t say his ice affects Skullion the same as Mira, just that neither are likely to get frozen, which is obvious since freezing never works.

The reason Cana and Gray gave for his ice not working on Mira is because it didn't work on Skullion. If freezing never works then why did he use it on Skullion after activating his DeS mark? According to Cana and Gray, Mirajane, who changes into Demons, would break out of this DeS named move, because Skullion did so easily. That's not some fodder ice everyone breaks out of. It's one of Gray's best moves 1 of his 4 DeS spells and it involves slashing the opponent with a sword made of DeS Ice before freezing them AND it was used to kill Tempesta.

And if she can easily resist one of his 4 shown DeS spells, according to Gray and Cana, then the DeS advantage is not as great as people on here think it is, which is my point.

Spoiler

So according to Gray and Cana, this would not work on Mirajane, who uses demon takeovers.
Skullion countered Gray's strongest moves without any sign of fatigue like after his fight with Mira and then proceeded to beat him with another move.

Gray thinking that Mira can beat someone who beat him and Gray saying he was waiting for Mira to be injured before he attacked her which resulted in a comic relief scene where Cana and Juvia thought it was cowardly actually does hint at Mira, not only being stronger, but also less susceptible than other demons were to his magic before.

He mentioned Skullion and Mirajane in particular so they are above Madmole and Elfman and are more of a threat than those 2. He then says Mira is capable of beating Skullion which also puts them on the same level.

And again Sherria needed 3rd origin to beat Dimaria. She couldn't do it on her own. Gray couldn't beat Mard Geer on his own either. A slayer advantage doesn't guarantee a win a shown so many times before.

The manga is pointing to Mira being more resistant to Gray's powers than previously thought and enough to have Gray wary of her and choose to wait for her to be injured to attack her.

Gray might have beaten Skullion in a rematch in this arc. Okay. Meanwhile Mira tied with him in her weakest form on her first try.

It's not that Gray cannot beat her but that right now she's generally stronger based on feats and hype and his DeS powers are not as effective as people here claim and don't guarantee him a win. He could very well beat her like he did Invel but that remains to be seen. Right now, however, the manga is pointing to Mirajane being stronger and being a serious threat to him and that would not be the case if his DeS guaranteed him a win.

 

[Ramen]

It's another spell with maybe higher power(Turning things to ash is his ability). Natsu uses different fire techniques but they all burn.

But burning this isn't a hax

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

But burning this isn't a hax

Natsu's fire can hax sometimes. He burned through Zeref's magic in the first round. Igneel's powerup can be taken as a hax. Don't know about the final clash he used against Zeref.

 

[Seven777]

The reason Cana and Gray gave for his ice not working on Mira is because it didn't work on Skullion. If freezing never works then why did he use it on Skullion after activating his DeS mark? According to Cana and Gray, Mirajane, who changes into Demons, would break out of this DeS named move, because Skullion did so easily. That's not some fodder ice everyone breaks out of. It's one of Gray's best moves 1 of his 4 DeS spells and it involves slashing the opponent with a sword made of DeS Ice before freezing them AND it was used to kill Tempesta.

Spoiler

So according to Gray and Cana, this would not work on Mirajane, who uses demon takeovers.
Skullion countered Gray's strongest moves without any sign of fatigue like after his fight with Mira and then proceeded to beat him with another move.

Gray thinking that Mira can beat someone who beat him and Gray saying he was waiting for Mira to be injured before he attacked her which resulted in a comic relief scene where Cana and Juvia thought it was cowardly actually does hint at Mira, not only being stronger, but also less susceptible than other demons were to his magic before.

He mentioned Skullion and Mirajane in particular so they are above Madmole and Elfman and are more of a threat than those 2. He then says Mira is capable of beating Skullion which also puts them on the same level.

And again Sherria needed 3rd origin to beat Dimaria. She couldn't do it on her own. Gray couldn't beat Mard Geer on his own either. A slayer advantage doesn't guarantee a win a shown so many times before.

The manga is pointing to Mira being more resistant to Gray's powers than previously thought and enough to have Gray wary of her and choose to wait for her to be injured to attack her.

Gray might have beaten Skullion in a rematch in this arc. Okay. Meanwhile Mira tied with him in her weakest form on her first try.

It's not that Gray cannot beat her but that right now she's generally stronger based on feats and hype and his DeS powers are not as effective as people here claim and don't guarantee him a win. He could very well beat her like he did Invel but that remains to be seen. Right now, however, the manga is pointing to Mirajane being stronger and being a serious threat to him and that would not be the case if his DeS guaranteed him a win.

Being one of Gray's best moves doesn't mean he oneshots Skullion and Mira with it. He also wasn't talking about Zeroth Longsword since he intended to freeze everyone at once. Ice Make Silver and Geyser are the only spells as far as I've seen that'd freeze them all.

Gray thinking Mira could beat someone who beat him would only mean Gray thinks she's stronger if Gray thought he couldn't take Skullion. I think it's pretty clear that he's itching for a rematch

Sure, Mira and Skullion are above Elfman and Madmole.

And again, Sherria needing 3rd origin doesn't change the fact that slaying advantage is a thing. It might not be as great, and it doesn't guarantee victory, but it's there.

Mira getting a tie with Skullion on her first try is better than losing I agree, but when Gray beats Skullion that'll be even better(assuming it happens).

I'd say Mira is generally stronger, given her new feats and renewed hype, but not by much. Slaying advantage(even if it's less effective than on real demons) should tip the scale in Gray's favor.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 3, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 3, 2020 ---

Either way I'm going to say it's going to be a very tough fight. While on the inside I feel like there could be a shocker in this sequel and Mira wins this but I wouldn't be surprised if Gray takes in the end since they have to break the WW's control one way or another. Although, they could somehow break the control without a fight and then team Lucy along with Mira and Elfman take on the elite DES squad together.

Looking forward to seeing what happens.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 3, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 3, 2020 ---

Is Black Ash hax? I though turning everything into ash was the hax but the two spells he used were his own.

Turning someone to ash sounds hax to me. Though hax is just a made up word, not an actual category of magic in the manga. Anyway, I just liken it to Kyria's ability because it turned a relatively even fight into a straight loss, just like with Kyria vs Erza. We'll see how Gray fairs in his rematch, though I'd bet money on Gray winning.

 

[Karna]

Nostradamus said Gray will redeem himself and be greater than Mira and Skullion.

 

[AmitDS]

Being one of Gray's best moves doesn't mean he oneshots Skullion and Mira with it. He also wasn't talking about Zeroth Longsword since he intended to freeze everyone at once. Ice Make Silver and Geyser are the only spells as far as I've seen that'd freeze them all.

Cana told him he couldn't freeze Mira if he couldn't freeze Skullion. He used that move on Skullion. He agreed with Cana. If Gray knew he could freeze her with one of his strongest moves, and not what he'd use on Elfman and Madmole, acc. to you, he would not agree that he couldn't freeze her because he couldn't freeze Skullion. The take away from that entire convo is that what he used on Skullion to freeze him would work no better on Mirajane.

And he uses Ice Make Silver with DeS so any way you slice it the end result would be Gray thinking that Mira, a demon, would be as unaffected as Skullion, not a demon, who beat him.

Gray thinking Mira could beat someone who beat him would only mean Gray thinks she's stronger if Gray thought he couldn't take Skullion. I think it's pretty clear that he's itching for a rematch

Not really since he went all out and lost and was wary of Skullion when he said Mira would beat him. That at least puts Mira above Gray when he lost which was what? A few day ago?

Sure, Mira and Skullion are above Elfman and Madmole.

Yeah so Skullion is stronger than Madmole and him and Mira are who Gray is wary of.

And again, Sherria needing 3rd origin doesn't change the fact that slaying advantage is a thing. It might not be as great, and it doesn't guarantee victory, but it's there.

No one ever denied that a slaying advantage exists. However what people are ignoring is that Sherria needed a massive boost in power + a slaying advantage to beat Dimaria. She didn't win because she has an advantage only. And I never denied that it exists. I just said, as Gray is hinting, that it is not as pronounced, effective or as powerful as people on here are saying it is.

Mira getting a tie with Skullion on her first try is better than losing I agree, but when Gray beats Skullion that'll be even better(assuming it happens).

Mira and Skullion are in their weakest forms. Gray used his strongest to lose. Mira tied with Skullion and Gray lost. For now she has better feats and hype (I thought feats ONLY counted on this forum?)

I'd say Mira is generally stronger, given her new feats and renewed hype, but not by much. Slaying advantage(even if it's less effective than on real demons) should tip the scale in Gray's favor.

Well I agree she's stronger however the extent to which the slayer advantage would help him is actually implied to be less than fans expected, by Gray himself. Again, him waiting for her to be injured and weak, him admitting his DeS magic would work on her as well as it did Skullion and him saying she'd be tough along with Laxus, Jellal and Gajeel all support that it could very well be like Gray vs Mard Geer and he'd have to work for his win against her, if he can get one.

Either way if he gets it, he already admitted that she's injured and that's what he was waiting for so it would be an empty win, proving nothing in terms of Gray vs Mira currently.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 3, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 3, 2020 ---

What if Gray insta freeze Mirajane, would she be able to escape?

Apparently, yes.

Spoiler

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 3, 2020 ---

Lol, just bcs he has DeS doesn't make him equal to Mira. He needed DF Natsu's help to land a clean hit on Mard Geer to win.

Gray at this point has admitted through actions and implications that Mira is outright stronger than him. To him she doesn't have a weakness, someone who's capable of breaking through his DeS ice and not someone he can just take without them being injured.

He literally tries to say he can freeze them all and literally everyone shut it down and he himself didn't fight back against it.

Mira > Gray. Her performance and hype are above Gray's lol.

I'm laughing at the damage control i.e. Mira tied with him because Skullion for no apparent reason didn't use the moves he used on Gray. And because it's off panel it's proof.

Meanwhile, unlike with Gray, he admitted that he couldn't beat her. Does Skullion look like he was going all out against Gray here? Idk how people can say that feats and hype are against Mira in this. She's clearly stronger than Gray.

Spoiler

What is really funny to me is how people are ignoring that Mirajane in her weakest form tied with Skullion who was not in DF while Gray in his most powerful form lost to him. Gray was at full power, the other 2 were not.

 

[Seven777]

Cana told him he couldn't freeze Mira if he couldn't freeze Skullion. He used that move on Skullion. He agreed with Cana. If Gray knew he could freeze her with one of his strongest moves, and not what he'd use on Elfman and Madmole, acc. to you, he would not agree that he couldn't freeze her because he couldn't freeze Skullion. The take away from that entire convo is that what he used on Skullion to freeze him would work no better on Mirajane.

And he uses Ice Make Silver with DeS so any way you slice it the end result would be Gray thinking that Mira, a demon, would be as unaffected as Skullion, not a demon, who beat him.

Not really since he went all out and lost and was wary of Skullion when he said Mira would beat him. That at least puts Mira above Gray when he lost which was what? A few day ago?



Yeah so Skullion is stronger than Madmole and him and Mira are who Gray is wary of.



No one ever denied that a slaying advantage exists. However what people are ignoring is that Sherria needed a massive boost in power + a slaying advantage to beat Dimaria. She didn't win because she has an advantage only. And I never denied that it exists. I just said, as Gray is hinting, that it is not as pronounced, effective or as powerful as people on here are saying it is.



Mira and Skullion are in their weakest forms. Gray used his strongest to lose. Mira tied with Skullion and Gray lost. For now she has better feats and hype (I thought feats ONLY counted on this forum?)



Well I agree she's stronger however the extent to which the slayer advantage would help him is actually implied to be less than fans expected, by Gray himself. Again, him waiting for her to be injured and weak, him admitting his DeS magic would work on her as well as it did Skullion and him saying she'd be tough along with Laxus, Jellal and Gajeel all support that it could very well be like Gray vs Mard Geer and he'd have to work for his win against her, if he can get one.

Either way if he gets it, he already admitted that she's injured and that's what he was waiting for so it would be an empty win, proving nothing in terms of Gray vs Mira currently.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 3, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 3, 2020 ---

Apparently, yes.

Spoiler

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 3, 2020 ---

I'm laughing at the damage control i.e. Mira tied with him because Skullion for no apparent reason didn't use the moves he used on Gray. And because it's off panel it's proof.

Meanwhile, unlike with Gray, he admitted that he couldn't beat her. Does Skullion look like he was going all out against Gray here? Idk how people can say that feats and hype are against Mira in this. She's clearly stronger than Gray.

Spoiler

What is really funny to me is how people are ignoring that Mirajane in her weakest form tied with Skullion who was not in DF while Gray in his most powerful form lost to him. Gray was at full power, the other 2 were not.

Of course it wouldn’t work, it working would mean Gray could oneshot them. Mira being as non-oneshottable as Skullion doesn't mean DeS advantage isn't there. Even Ajeel busted out of Ice Make Silver, effortlessly too. Like I said, freezing people doesnt work.

Sure, but Gray clearly doesn't consider himself weaker than Skullion despite his loss.

Sure, I never said Skullion and Mira weren't who Gray was wary of.

Pretty sure people have denied that the slaying advantage exists, but if you're not one of them thats fine. Haven't seen anyone ignoring that Chelia needed 3rd origin with her advantage, it's pretty obvious that slaying advantage alone couldn't make up the difference.

Yes, for now she does have better feats. Why would feats "ONLY" count on this forum? This isn't an official discussion or anything, just a bunch of fans rambling about how strong we think each character is. You can call my argument speculation, because it is, but I'm still gonna say I think Gray is stronger than Skullion because im near certain he's gonna beat Skullion.

Highly doubt Mira is as far above Gray as Mard was back in the day, or anywhere remotely close to it. But since she's not an actual demon, sure, Gray will probably have to work for it.

It might not be an empty win, and it may yet prove something. If Gray beats Mira extreme diff like Laxus and Erza, then sure, proves nothing, if Gray beats her mid diff though, then Gray probably beats healthy Mira too.

 

[AmitDS]

Of course it wouldn’t work, it working would mean Gray could oneshot them. Mira being as non-oneshottable as Skullion doesn't mean DeS advantage isn't there. Even Ajeel busted out of Ice Make Silver, effortlessly too. Like I said, freezing people doesnt work.

Sure, but Gray clearly doesn't consider himself weaker than Skullion despite his loss.

Sure, I never said Skullion and Mira weren't who Gray was wary of.

Pretty sure people have denied that the slaying advantage exists, but if you're not one of them thats fine. Haven't seen anyone ignoring that Chelia needed 3rd origin with her advantage, it's pretty obvious that slaying advantage alone couldn't make up the difference.

Yes, for now she does have better feats. Why would feats "ONLY" count on this forum? This isn't an official discussion or anything, just a bunch of fans rambling about how strong we think each character is. You can call my argument speculation, because it is, but I'm still gonna say I think Gray is stronger than Skullion because im near certain he's gonna beat Skullion.

Highly doubt Mira is as far above Gray as Mard was back in the day, or anywhere remotely close to it. But since she's not an actual demon, sure, Gray will probably have to work for it.

It might not be an empty win, and it may yet prove something. If Gray beats Mira extreme diff like Laxus and Erza, then sure, proves nothing, if Gray beats her mid diff though, then Gray probably beats healthy Mira too.

It actually does mean that she would resist it as Skullion would. If DeS is supper effective on demons, Skullion is not a demon, Mira is one in her Takeover, BSS Mira = Skullion and Gray and Cana think it wouldn't work on her as it didn't work on him then so far the manga hints that DeS isn't as effective on her as people on here think.

A non demon on her BSS level would resist it as well as her? The only explanation that would work for this to make sense is if one of her stronger forms resists it like Skullion did and BSS is not who Gray is refering to

If you're arguing that Mira would lose because she uses demon takeovers and he uses DeS magic then why are you also saying that DeS spells like ice make silver and his ice devil's zeroth long sword are fodder moves and/or countered by Ajeel. That's like half of the DeS spells he knows.

I was being sarcastic. Many on this forum say stuff like hype and statements don't count, especially when it comes to Mira, so I am questioning how suddenly when there's a feat ie her drawing with someone in her weakest form while Gray lost in his strongest, in addition to so much hype that this is still being discussed. Forget the vs and the DeS vs Mira, the fact that people are still debating if she's stronger is funny.

It would prove nothing. If Gray who is nearly fresh has to wait for Mira to get out of two battles, the last one being with someone stronger than him, and he has to wait until she's injured and low on power before he beats her, it would just prove that he can't do it on his own. If it's high, mid or even low diff he already admitted he was waiting for this to strike. It's not like Laxus low diffing Kyria before fighting Erza. Mira is actually injured and tired from fighting Skullion to a draw.