Discussion Grisha

[kannazuki]

Here it is sweet kannazuki

Ah ha.

He says it's inner (like I've mentioned before - suck translation in my own language), but even if those are inner walls it makes him even more suspicious, he must know RB and who knows if Anie (she didn't make an apperance in the first episode) so my guess is that he injecte the serum to them. RB mentioned (in the anime) that they are from Wall Maria which means they are from inside unless they were lying because they must have sneaked out somehow from the walls unnoticed.

Suspicious, yes. There are a lot of things he probably knows/knew. I'd need some direct hinting/evidence to believe he might have been acquainted with anyone from the Warrior faction though. As things are right now, it seems to me like he is/was an important person with the royal government, wall cult, and/or noble families.

also, another thing, someone mentioned in the previous comments of this thread that grisha could've warn the population for the attack but he didn't coz he would be arrested and erwin and the other could've not pull off something to save him because they didn't even know him, but i doubt that, since the trainer of the 104th (i don't know his name it was mentioned in the previous comments of his thread) said to himself something about eren's father so grisha knows erwin too.

The person you're thinking of would be Keith Shardis/Sadies (not sure of spelling), but I don't see why Keith knowing Grisha would mean Erwin also knows him. If he did, I would think Erwin would have shown some indication of recognizing Dr. Yeager's son by now. Just like Keith did while Eren was in training.

edit: maybe the outlook of RB in titan form is proof that grisha didn't inject them, coz if they trained their abilities (to harden skin i mean very much and loose skin in order to grow), it would've been many years of training. but yet, grisha might've injected completed and finished titan serum already containing the abilities in him.

I think it's more likely that just as it seems, an outside faction (the Warriors) has a near-monopoly on titan transformation technology. Maybe Grisha was trying to develop it for the people within the walls, and came up with something either too unstable (i.e. weak powers) or too taboo to make widespread use of.

 

[Slawek]

In my opinion Grisha was killed by the goverment

 

[PIXISSUUU]

I think alot of people are jumping to conclusions when they are so certain that eating a relative is what turn's people into a shifter. Does that mean Berik and Ymir were related? Is there any basis for that claim? Also, have we seen ANY instance when a titan turned into a human as a result of eating thier relatives? Its just a theory at this point based only on speculation and no canon facts backing it up.

Yes, it is a fact that Ymir obtained the ability to shift back to a human after eating Berik. Rather than assuming they were related, isn't it equally feasible that by consuming his body and his blood, she obtained some bio-tech that helps a human shifter retain focus and the ability to shift back? Since everyone from the "Warrior" crew seems to be pretty good at shifting, I think a logical assumption is that by consuming Berwick, Ymir gained the Warrior's "tech." I also think that the Warriors are after Eren's Titan "tech," which is why they've been trying to capture him.

It seems clear that Titan creation and shifting are designed technologies that are somehow activated by injection. With that being the case, why would the creators of the tech allow people to return to human form once they eat a relative? What would be the point of that? How would that drive the plot along?

There's no proof that Grisha's been eaten. I speculate that he's still alive, and he will probably play a part in the future story. I don't think he's helping the Warriors because the titan he created through Eren is very different than the skinless Warrior titans. My guess is that he's probably involved with Ymir's people somehow, since the titan-shifter he creates (Eren) is a lot more like Ymir than RBA.

 

[kannazuki]

I think alot of people are jumping to conclusions when they are so certain that eating a relative is what turn's people into a shifter. Does that mean Berik and Ymir were related? Is there any basis for that claim? Also, have we seen ANY instance when a titan turned into a human as a result of eating thier relatives? Its just a theory at this point based only on speculation and no canon facts backing it up.

There's a longstanding theory that (much like your "bio-tech" theory) eating a *shifter* (supposed of Berik) can make a mindless titan into a conscious shifter (like Ymir), but I don't recall anyone claiming it has to be about eating a relative. There simply exists a possibility that if indeed a mindless titan has to eat a shifter to regain humanity, Eren might have done so, and that shifter might then have happened to be his father.

---------- Post added at 06:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 AM ----------

Correction!
Actually I forgot there was talk about "inheriting" titan abilities in the ape titan thread. I don't think of shifters as starting out that way (as opposed to mindless), so I guess that's why my mind didn't connect the two conversations.

 

[PIXISSUUU]

There's a longstanding theory that (much like your "bio-tech" theory) eating a *shifter* (supposed of Berik) can make a mindless titan into a conscious shifter (like Ymir), but I don't recall anyone claiming it has to be about eating a relative. There simply exists a possibility that if indeed a mindless titan has to eat a shifter to regain humanity, Eren might have done so, and that shifter might then have happened to be his father.

My bad. I think I might have actually read that on another forum. Regardless some people think that eating relatives explains why Grisha is gone because "obviously Eren ate him." They back this up with the point that the titan that almost eats Armin kinda looks like his uncle.

I'm open to the possibility of mindless titans being able to return to human form by eating a shifter, but I'm not convinced yet. I think Ymir was only able to turn back to human form because she was a shifter to begin with. Mindless titans are doughy and oddly proportioned, and have terrible movements; they are like a crappy gen-1 titan version. Ymir and Eren's titans are super ripped and beastly. With so many differences in the original design of the titan types (which there are 3-4 types at least to date), I doubt a mindless titan would be able to shift back.

It also does mean that Ymir may have some type of hybrid Titan advantage because she has the tech from her original titan (which has skin and pointy ears) and maybe whatever tech Berwick had in his system when she ate him.

Point is, Grisha was not eaten by Eren. We'll see him again, and it will be the source of a lot of emotional turmoil for both father and son.

 

[kannazuki]

Well in order to make the mindless-to-shifter theory work, you take the logical next step of supposing that Grisha himself must have been a shifter. So that has nothing to do with him and Eren being related. That said, I'm not sure if you saw my *correction* above? In the "Ape Titan" thread, there are some people who were talking about characters "inheriting" the shifter-titan ability. (I'd forgotten about that discussion and didn't connect it with this thread at the time.)

The difference is that there doesn't appear to be much (if any) evidence for anything relative-related, while there IS discussion in 47 about going from mindless to shifter.

 

[220kz]

New idea about why Grisha left right before the attack:

Someone who has a secret basement
and knows about titan transformation might have a detector
that like earthquake measurment equipment (Seismograph)
is able to detect the volatile transformations of shifters and
was warned that way.
The idea is incomplete though since we still don't know
why he left his family without a clue about the incoming attack...

 

[lolnameless]

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Chapter 55 Discussion/Chapter 56 Predictions

part of me believes that. but another part of me believes he's still alive. but what i do believe 100% is that Grisha is liable to get killed off

Grisha is eaten by Eren.
Once that juice was injected into Eren, Eren becomes a pure titan(memory lost), Grisha was then eaten by Eren so he (for some reason) became human again.
That's why Grisha was crying, if Grisha gave him the power only without any side-effect, there is little to be sad about.

 

[ArtIristic]

Im kinda split on whether Grisha was killed by the MP, or is currently hiding with the Reiss family.
I do hope he is alive, but if he was, the basement would be completely useless, because Grisha could just tell Eren and the others the whole story.
Or maybe... his memory has been erased!
That might make sense in his whole disappearance act, and he might just have been wandering aimlessly ever since the Wall fell. But who could have done it?

I just can't imagine him having been eaten, because in the Anime, Eren still had his hands wounded from when he tried to save his mother, but that could easily just be a mistake overlooked by the animators.

 

[lolnameless]

New idea about why Grisha left right before the attack:

Someone who has a secret basement
and knows about titan transformation might have a detector
that like earthquake measurment equipment (Seismograph)
is able to detect the volatile transformations of shifters and
was warned that way.
The idea is incomplete though since we still don't know
why he left his family without a clue about the incoming attack...

But if Grisha did know that something is coming, he wouldn't have left his kids and wife alone, I think it is likely to be coincident.

 

[Hectorpops]

I'm thinking the reason titans barf is b/c they must eat family members/whatever Grisha was, to become a shifter
Since titans are too dumb to process peoples faces, they just eat whoever, but since i thnk eren ate grisha, Grisha must have something that reverts the titan effects, or maybe it's just because they are related

 

[220kz]

I'm thinking the reason titans barf is b/c they must eat family members/whatever Grisha was, to become a shifter

Even though i don't like the idea here some thoughts to this:

What if the Serum that Grisha gave Eren had this very function instead of
having to eat a family member he got it straight into the vein...

Now to what i originally wanted to talk about

Mikasa's and Levi's superior 3DMG abilities,
Eren's Titantransformation and his tempered memories...
we mainly think of Geographia as someone who has a memory-altering
ability but if we don't think of that as some kind of magic
but technology that may be the key to understand
the afore mentioned things.
Not just memories but the whole human physiologie could be
changed and considering how Eren, Mikasa and Levi are connected
that does kinda make sense. Grisha was (regulary?) visitig the Ackermans
who knows what kind of child-vaccinations Mikasa got
and Levi was trained by a special-ops Commander who leads a secret
anti-human 3DMG corps, who knows what kind of dope they get?
Then comes the whole titan creation thing. If some people have the
power to mess with something as complex as the human brain it's
believable that they can with enough genius/the right manual create titans.
and if humans are prepared with vaccation like those in Connie's village they
might even be turned into Titan's by a simple (telepatic) command or the roar
(right frequency) of the Ape-titan or something like that (coordinate) -
maybe even brought to form >100km wide circles transform and harden
to create the walls.

And "To You, 2000 Years From Now" might not be a reference to the story
being told in past tense but could instead refer to whatever information
Grisha found in the Basement. If we consider the story taking place
in the 15 - 16 th century that also ties everything together with
Germanic themes of Ice Giants and might be a hint that ~500BC Titans
were roaming and whoever rode to the future new that they would
awaken again...

Talking about telepathy and titans i might as well mention this:
what if titans live/are traped not just in a dream like Eren's dreams
and flashbacks from his transformations suggest but if the share it
considering that titans don't age that would make them the ideal
virtual reality gear.

 

[PIXISSUUU]

Given what we know now about factions outside the walls (There's at least 2, likely 3 factions. RBA Warrior Faction, Ymir Faction, and Apey Faction) does it seem likely that Grisha was a kind of Sleeper Agent working for a faction trying to conquer the King inside the walls? Would it make sense that he'd be aligned with Ymir's faction, since Eren's Titan and Ymir's have some superficial similarities?

I think its likely Grisha knows the secrets of Titan origins, and that of the walls as well. He was also capable of giving Eren a titan with a serum, so he has a great deal of practical knowledge of how to make titans (he knows more than just a general understanding of their origins).

He does seem to genuinely care about his family, so its likely he's not aligned with the RBA faction since he didn't have a warning as to thier arrival.

Since Apey doesn't know about 3DMG, it doesn't seem likely that Grisha's been reporting on recent events within the wall.

So the best bet seems to be that Grisha got his knowledge about Titans and the outside world by being aligned with Ymir's faction. This is how he got the bio-technology to turn Eren into a Titan.

Thoughts?

 

[RIplian]

So the best bet seems to be that Grisha got his knowledge about Titans and the outside world by being aligned with Ymir's faction. This is how he got the bio-technology to turn Eren into a Titan.

Thoughts?

An entire faction devoted to Ymir? Sounds stupendous! Also possibly hyper aggressive. I'm down.

As much as I like it, it would be a bit much if she was yet another "Princess/Queen" in exile. Although throughout history monarchs did marry family members in order to solidify alliances. Is it possible humanity can form a joint effort against Monkey Trouble and the Faction that Uses Children as an Expeditionary Force (UCEF for short)?

I'm going to assume you didn't mean that Y is some kind of royalty. If so, there are so many possibilities, particularly great ones that involve Grisha -like you mentioned.

Hopefully, he's actually has been incarcerated at MP HQ this entire time. For the bonus pain, and answers.

 

[TheOwl]

Hopefully, he's actually has been incarcerated at MP HQ this entire time. For the bonus pain, and answers.

Doubtful. We know that to gain control of your Titan form you need to eat a shifter. Grisha was probably a shifter and Eren ate Grisha.

My take on Grisha is that he, through shady ways created or stole the Titan serum through very shady ways and tried it on himself. Somehow he took control of his Titan form without having to eat a Shifter, but it was too small of a Titan (smaller than 6 meters). Thus he gave the serum to Eren, knowing that one needed to eat a shifter if he wanted to have a larger Titan form. So he gave the serum to Eren so he could eat him, and gain control of his 15-meter Titan.

 

[PIXISSUUU]

An entire faction devoted to Ymir? Sounds stupendous! Also possibly hyper aggressive. I'm down.

I'm going to assume you didn't mean that Y is some kind of royalty. If so, there are so many possibilities, particularly great ones that involve Grisha -like you mentioned.

No, I never said that the entire faction is devoted to Ymir. Ymir's faction isn't a term of ownership but more of an attribute since we don't know anything else about them other than the fact that Ymir is one member of this faction. She is definitely not part of the Warrior faction (Reiner, Bertholdt, Annie) and we also have no info she's aligned with the Monkey titan. Hence "Ymir's Faction" refers the unnamed faction outside the walls we have zero info about except that Ymir is one of them. Pretty simple I thought.

On the part about Ymir being royalty...Actually its not impossible. Only two titans to date have spoken. One was Apey and it seems he was talking in a language Mike didn't understand. The other was the deviant who talked to Ilse Langer, and addressed her as "Ymir-sama." This could hint that Ymir commands some sort of respect from the titans, and that perhaps she is of some high position outside the walls.

 

[RIplian]

That would be an interesting twist, if she indeed did command some sort of respect from the lot.

Here's to hoping the next few chapters finally give something more on the other factions outside the walls.