Gutts and Ceska's Child..

[Absolutio]

Well, we all know that Gutts and Ceska had a boy that got affected by Ceska's raping by Femto. Femto's evilness affected the baby and that's why he was the way he was. Later on, at the World's Behelit arc (at the holy tower when griffith comes back to the world), the World's Behelit "swallowed" the baby after he was hurt, and then the boy was used more or less to become Griffith's essance. We can also see that when Griffith says that he saved Ceska because her boy his inside him.

So now my question is.. Since the kid shows up again, now older, and in normal looks, at volume 28. How is it possible?

 

[xi0]

This is another one of those unanswered questions from the story thus far. Was the little boy actually Guts and Caska's child is the ultimate question. The child bears a striking resemblance and immediately clung to Caska. It's one of those things that may or may not be answered.

 

[Silhouette]

It seems like I am the only one who thinks that the evil embryo wasn't used up in "giving birth" to Griffith as a human. Guts's child from Caska wasn't needed in the process and he just happened to be there by a coincidence...injured and weak after protecting his mom. After being swallowed by the perfect world egg, he was reborn as the Moon Child but his and Griffith's blood got mixed up.
As far as I remember there was nothing in the story suggestin that Guts' child was consumed, Griffith only said that the kid's blood runs in him.

 

[Absolutio]

Well.. it might be the case I guess.. But it's still weird.. Like, Griffith and the child got mixed somehow? O_o

And this kid HAS to be Gutts' and Ceska's.. You can clearly see a lil Gutt's face on him, not to mention exactly the same eyes. The Mangaka is so good so it can't be a coincidence.. He planned and painted it that way.

 

[xi0]

Well he could also have planned it as nothing more than a red herring. There at least isn't any reason for seeing the kid returning to the story now, so it'll be resolved later on if there is anything to it.

 

[Absolutio]

As far as it concerns the kid, there isnt much of a reason for the kid generally. Maybe except the fact that Griffith can't harm Ceska now. But generally the kid didnt have any important role so far. So there shouldn't be a "good" reason for the kid to show up, but you could say that thanks to him, Gutts didn't attack his friends?

 

[Rokudaime Hokage]

I think he has more like Griffith's eyes... dunno...

 

[mistah radical]

I get the feeling that kid was as someone said a red herring to tease us. Caska never seemed to deliver a real child, and the thing that came out of her was by all comparisons to other creatures in the story, a monster that resides in the ghost world. It might have gotten eaten by the egg guy, but he was going to give birth to Griffith either way, so I think ultimately the baby is just something that spawned of evil and tortured their minds. If a real person comes out of it that's going to take a lot of explaining.

 

[Kibagami]

bringing an old topic topic to life.... 2 (very long) subjects:

1) Griffith took over Guts' and Caska's baby. Theres no doubt about it. He refers specfically to his body when he and Zodd meets Guts at hill of swords, and Guts seems to have an affect on his kid's body even though Griffith, who is in control of the body, had rid himself of any hindering feelings towards Guts.

Remember, Caska gave birth to some kind of (evil) spirit - a sort of ghost - that can be categorized with the badies that haunts Guts and them every night. This spirit (I'll call it "Gutska" for now ~_~) followed and haunted Guts during the 2 years after the eclipse. He warned Guts about Caska's escape and even protected Caska in the tower. So regardless of how Guts feels about Gutska... the kid doesn't want to hurt his parents. I think this will affect the fight between Guts and Griffiths.

2) The kid on the beach is a huge mystery, and his likeness to Caska (and arguably Guts) is a big question mark, and this is all done on purpose to create more interest and argument.

One thing you guys didn't mention is that after Guts fought the crocodiles and the elepant sea monster for the first time, his Berserk-self was about to attack the group until a light spirit thingy stopped him, saying "not an enemy" (Vol 28 chap242-243). People generally think that's Schierk's work, but I'm SURE that the spirit figure was the kid and Schierk was only able to reach Guts after the kid broke a hole thru the darkness created by the Berserker armour.

Evidence that the kid on the beach is the spirit that stopped Guts:
->You'll notice that whenever Schierk does her "work" in the spiritual realm, she retains her physical form for the most part (hat, face, mantle, arms-> all intact). In fact, when her master, forgot her name, protected the group from Gurunberd, SHE also retains her humanly feature, whereas this light spirit thingy looked more like an elemental. Its form can be compared to the spirits in Serpico's sword or even the 'Angels' that Schierk calls upon for help, which leads me to believe that it is NOT Schierk but something completely different - a non human spirit that is GOOD.

-> Guts suspected the same thing (Vol 28 chap243 page156). Gut's was wondering what the hell that spirit was too, and he didn't automatically assume it was Schierk; his first thought was the kid.

The problem for everyone is that he resembles a manifestation of Caska's utmost desire - her baby, and fittingly so too, because she gave birth to Gutska 2-3 years ago and BAM a 2-3 year old kid that looks just like her pops out of the ocean. Coincidence? I'd also point out that Miura reveals him RIGHT as the skull knight was talking about what Caska's desires are.

The things that I would semi-confidently say about the kid on the beach is that A) he has special powers, explaining the strange OD that Schierk senses on him B) he saved Guts after the fight on the beach, and C) he's some kind of spirit that is probably good. Could he be related to the Elf king? Maybe he's a spirit of the sea?

 

[Aldrich]

I'm pretty much certain the moonlight child is actually Griffith. If you read vol 28 carefully, you'll notice that when the group is leaving after the child dissapeared, Guts feels a presence and turns back. Then you have a view of the hill where you can distinguish a silhouette that looks like Zodd. It means Zodd actually brought Griffith to the beach where Casca and Guts were, or more precisely he brought the child who took control of Griffith and wanted to see his parents.

This is just a theory of course, but I think it's a pretty credible one. And when you think about it, it has a load of potential for future plot twists. Miura really is a genius.

 

[baboysai]

I really thought the kid was griffith's.

 

[xi0]

I'm pretty much certain the moonlight child is actually Griffith. If you read vol 28 carefully, you'll notice that when the group is leaving after the child dissapeared, Guts feels a presence and turns back. Then you have a view of the hill where you can distinguish a silhouette that looks like Zodd. It means Zodd actually brought Griffith to the beach where Casca and Guts were, or more precisely he brought the child who took control of Griffith and wanted to see his parents.

This is just a theory of course, but I think it's a pretty credible one. And when you think about it, it has a load of potential for future plot twists. Miura really is a genius.

I just looked back in volume 28 to the part you described, and I can't make a silhouette of Zodd at all.

The part your referring to is when the group first happens upon Caska and the Child on the beach, Guts senses the presense of something, but there is nothing on the cliff when he looks, and I can't make out anything when he turns away either.

 

[Aldrich]

Here's the page:

http://groups.msn.com/BerserkManga/volumes.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=5778

And the panel I'm talking about:

See the wing and the distinctively shaped horn?

 

[xi0]

Yeah I saw that panel but I think it is sort of a stretch. Why would Zodd need to be in Demon form if he was just watching the group? I think it is just a coincidence.

Miura may have done it intentionally though, but I doubt it.

 

[Aldrich]

He needed to be in demon form because he brought Griffith/the child to the place like he always does, only his demon form allows him to fly. I find it more logical for him to stay in demon form than to turn back to human, then turn into a demon again to bring back Griffith to the Band of the Hawks camp.

We already know Griffith used Guts and Casca's child as a vessel to be reborn in a physical form in this world. We've also seen the child had some control over Griffith, when he saved Casca on the Hill of Swords. Of course you could say it was Griffith himself who did it and didn't want to show he still cared about his old companions but I don't buy it, doesn't fit with what Miura showed of the character for the past 15 volumes or so. And finally we know when the child was still in his demonic foetus form he was seeking his parents presence and wanted to help them.

So as I said, I'm almost sure this kid is Griffith, or at least one of the two souls in Griffith's physical body. Now it leaves a lot of questions; what is the extent of his control over Griffith, can he completely suppress his personality and evil nature or does he just influence him? Does he actually control Zodd, or does Zodd follow him because he knows the child is Griffith? What will Guts do if he discovers the man he wants to kill is also his son apparently rid of his evil nature? That'd fit with what Skullknight told Guts too: "what you wish for may not be what (Casca) wishes for".

All in all this theory explains the child powers and has incredible potential for the rest of the story, at least more then if he was just a random spirit or elf we've never seen before. That's why I'm hoping it is true.

 

[xi0]

Maybe so, but I still say you're making shapes out of shadows.

As far as Skullknight's statement goes, that is an interesting take on it, but for some reason I always thought it had more to do with Casca re-gaining her memory/sanity. What you're saying does make more sense, but if Casca returns to being normal, would she remember what happened to the fetus or the fact that she gave birth to it at all? Do you think she is irrational enough to go against Guts' ambition?

 

[Aldrich]

I'd like to have other opinions on this cause to me it's pretty clear it's Zodd we're seeing here. At first when I read this theory on a Berserk forum I also thought the guy was delusional, then I looked closely and it hit me; the wing, the shoulder/back, the neck, the horn and face; it's a side view of Zodd. Keep in mind too this page was added to volume 28, it wasn't in the Young Animal chapter. Why would Miura add such a page if it didn't have a crucial importance?

As for Casca coming back to "normal"... I suppose she wouldn't remember the eclipse, or else there's no reason why she wouldn't lose her mind again, but the events following it may stay with her somehow, including the birth of her child. And yes, I think she'd go against Guts ambition if that ambition was to kill her son, and that'd be extremely interesting to see how all parties involved would react: Casca, Guts, the child, and Griffith too.

 

[xi0]

Now that you mentioned to look at it as a side view, I suppose it has convinced me a little more that it might be the case. The only thing is that it is the right horn that Zodd is missing and it the horn looks like it is on the right. Zodd's horn curves up and forward. It just looks awkward to me. Maybe I am splitting hairs here, heh.

Also, I never knew that this page was absent from the Young Animal chapter, is that true? Do you have proof? I'd really like to see that...I might need to go hunting on winny for the original chapter.

 

[Aldrich]

I have no proof, I just trust the admin from Skullknight.net who brought it up the first time, seems like a pretty stupid thing to lie about.

 

[KaiserRyuujin]

I have no proof, I just trust the admin from Skullknight.net who brought it up the first time, seems like a pretty stupid thing to lie about.

Uhm....in what way gives him credibility about such a theory? He's just an admin for some internet forum. Whoopity freakin doo.

Sorry, but with that little theory proposed and with the picture. I dont see it, what so ever, its not like you fully pointed it out yourself. I mean, I can look at it and go, "Look! A sleeping person!" or, I can see a snake with its tongue sticking out into the night sky.

Its an imaginative theory.