Politics Hamas-Israel conflict

[Onomatopoeia]

Source is: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7800985.stm

Israeli F-16 bombers have launched a series of air strikes against key targets in the Gaza Strip, killing and injuring scores of people.

Medical staff and Hamas officials said at least 140 people were killed when missiles hit security compounds and militant bases across Gaza.

The strikes, the most intense Israeli attacks on Gaza in recent times, come after the expiry of a truce with Hamas.

Israel said it was responding to continued rocket attacks from Gaza.

Palestinian militants frequently fire rockets against Israeli towns from within the borders of Gaza.

In a statement, Israel's military said it targeted "Hamas terror operatives" as well as training camps and weaponry storage warehouses.

In the West Bank, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas - whose Fatah faction was ousted from Gaza by Hamas in 2007 - condemned the attacks and called for restraint.

But Hamas quickly vowed to carry out revenge attacks on Israel in response to the air strikes, firing Qassam rockets into Israeli territory as an immediate reply.

"Hamas will continue the resistance until the last drop of blood," spokesman Fawzi Barhoum was reported as saying.

Israel also stood firm, saying operations "will continue, will be expanded, and will deepen if necessary".

Rising toll

Reports of the casualties in Gaza mounted swiftly after news broke of the Israeli operation.



Palestinian militant group Hamas, which controls Gaza, initially said at least 40 people had been killed when a missile hit security headquarters in and around Gaza City.

That figure quickly rose until both Hamas and Palestinian doctors said at least 140 were killed and some 400 people injured.

Egypt opened its border crossing to the Gaza Strip at Rafah to absorb and treat some of those injured in the south of the territory.

Most of the dead and injured were said to be in Gaza City, where Hamas's main security compound was destroyed.

But casualties were also reported around Gaza, including in the southern town of Khan Younis, where Reuters news agency said at least 20 people were thought to have died.

Hamas said all of its security compounds in Gaza were destroyed by the Israeli air strikes, which Israel said hit some 40 targets across the territory.

The air strikes are the most intense Israel has launched against Gaza for some time, and come amid rumours that a ground operation is imminent.

Israeli security officials have been briefing about the possibility of a new offensive into Gaza for some days now, says the BBC's Paul Wood, in Jerusalem.

But most reports centred on the possibility of a ground offensive, and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert was not expected to authorise any operation until Sunday at the earliest.

I can't say I'm surprised because it was to be expected since the Truce between the two was ending and Hamas declared it over. They shouldn't have been surprised though after firing rockets into Israel. But the death toll is shocking with some estimates putting it at 300+ already.


Israel invades Gaza
Source:http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSLS69391620090103


Some other Sources on the clashes and some background info:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hGdOVX8wKfbGm3FAUNLxtM9TEPZw
http://uk.reuters.com/article/burningIssues/idUKTRE4BR24C20081229
http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/war_on_gaza/ Note this site will be biased but it's still got a lot of information

So then opinions?
Is Israel justified on the bombing?
Will the Egyptian mediators who hope to bring a ceasefire come to anything?
Is Israel overeacting?
Etc.?

 

[segua]

Real question, would a cease fire stop the bloodshed betwene these two group of people?

I'm not surprised but I do feel bad for the people though. Also, I can't help but think that someone is profiting from this conflict.

 

[redcometfm]

Someone always profits from conflict. Profit actually drives conflict. Just study all the past wars and follow the money.

Im kind of annoyed with this. Its like hearing two children take a break from fighting over a toy, then going back into it, on and off, over and over again. Its just stupid and pathetic and I really wish the UN would just send in their forces and tell them essentially "Cut the shit or we will fuck you both up." Not exactly that, but something to that effect, something to politically pressure them to get in line and quit this shit. Enough is enough. I understand both sides have lost numerous lives but their conflict is now fruitless because there's no stopping point or ultimate gain. Itd be better both Gaza and Israel could gtfo each others backs and focus on developing internally, especially for the people who claim to be suffering in Gaza.

 

[rabb]

Real question, would a cease fire stop the bloodshed betwene these two group of people?

no. they've tried that before.

i just dont understand why these countries keep attacking isreal. after the first few times they got their asses handed to them on a plater (six days war, anyone?) they shouldve been like "hey, this is a fsckin mini-america with superior firepower, backoff" but yet they've been loobin rockets or w/e consistantly at them for the last 50 years, and continously bombed and/or ran over by tanks in retaliation...

people should know when they are defeated

 

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

Israel went too far.

 

[Akainu]

I dunno if they went too far, but they should have considered the bad humanitarian situation in Gaza. Many of the dead could have been saved under other circumstances like having enough blood preservations and so on. Then again among the many victims there are relatively few confirmed civilians and the victims of the Hamas Qassam rockets always are civilians. Its a difficult and dangerous situation right now.

 

[redcometfm]

Dont suppose de-militarizing the entire Middle East (save for Israel) could solve the problem?
Its a fantasy idea but I bet it would stop alot of the modern day troubles coming from the region.

 

[rabb]

realisticly, thats a horrible idea. it would come of as racism or worse. it could start a very real anmd very wide scale holy war. plus gun runners would get weapons in there, and civil and border wars would break out, then UN would be stretched to its limits to stop them, and all kind of chaos insues.

 

[segua]

Demilitarizing the whole entire Middle East save for Israel is not a very good idea. It'll only worsen the situation globally. Both sides has claim to the land regardless of what anyone says.

The UN can't do jack. Seriously, what has the UN accomplished in the way of stopping wars? What has the UN accomplished in the way of helping humanity? Nil.

You can't solve the issue for Israel and Hamas. Even when one side is totally wiped off the face of this world, the other side will go and defile the graves of their enemies.

 

[redcometfm]

I dunno. I just had an emotional image of a de-weaponized Mid East which as a result would be too timid and financially constricted to smuggle in enough weapons to challenge Israel and theyd just keep to themselves and develop internally to improve their countries and use other global powers such as France, Britain, Japan, U.S., etc to keep all of them in check (via UN?), including Israel.

What a hopeless situation.

 

[segua]

Also, a move to demilitarized the entire Middle East save for Israel might not be such a great idea. The oil producing companies there might threaten to increase the prices of oil who knows how much. Or even worse, they might even restrict or even cut off oil shipments to those countries that were part of the call for demilitarization.

That whole area is fragile and should be dealt with properly. Well does anyone know how to deal with that area properly in the first place?

 

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

Why don't you demilitarized Europe while you're at it?

But seriously Israel have to demilitarize as well, you can't just expect other countries to and not others, it's a two sided conflict, both to blame.

 

[redcometfm]

Again it wasnt a serious idea, just...an emotional one if you could call it that?
The only reason I didnt think of demilitarizing Israel was so that they could defend themselves from future terror attacks.
But again Segua you bring many good points. Some are of the opinion to just let them fight it out but I dont think thatd work out too well either...aye.

 

[thsv]

I've stated this in other thread concerning other subjects but it still applies here;

Cooler heads on both sides need to prevail.

Unfortunately Israel will continue to elected hardliners as long as Hamas refuses to recognise Israel's right to exist and plan to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. You notice this isn't happening in the West Bank? I wonder why?[/rhetorical question]

 

[redcometfm]

Unfortunately Israel will continue to elected hardliners as long as Hamas refuses to recognise Israel's right to exist and plan to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. You notice this isn't happening in the West Bank? I wonder why?[/rhetorical question]

Could you explain why this isn't happening?

 

[Franckie]

Israel went too far.

From my understanding, since the Second Intifada began in 2000 Israel deaths have plummeted. It proves that Israel's military solution is largely working. Also, that Hamas's strike back has been very weak indeed, showing Israel's suffocating of it is working.

Although the suffering of the people in Gaza is horrible, they're not Israel's responsibility.

 

[thsv]

Could you explain why this isn't happening?

Because Fatah realises it can't fight its way to a solution. Ok, progress with Israel has stalled but at least Fatah aren't shelling Israel which is the original reason for the West Bank's occupation.

And whilst I wished the US might reel Israel back in sometimes let anyone who is pro-Gaza answer this for me; How do you work with someone who denies your right to exist?

 

[segua]

Realistically, there are no possible solutions between these two groups. Even if two prominent men try to establish peace, they will become targets for assassinations.

Yea, you can't let them fight it out nor could anyone stop them from fighting. Even using an arbiter to resolve their issues has only been a short-term solution.

---

Because Fatah realises it can't fight its way to a solution. Ok, progress with Israel has stalled but at least Fatah aren't shelling Israel which is the original reason for the West Bank's occupation.

And whilst I wished the US might reel Israel back in sometimes let anyone who is pro-Gaza answer this for me; How do you work with someone who denies your right to exist?

Fatah is being smart. I'm sure they would attack Israel, but why do it since Hamas will do it anyway? Those two parties are in opposition aren't they? So Fatah is playing it safe and smart.

 

[thsv]

Oh i admit that Fatah would fight Israel if they thought they'd gain anything from it.

At lunchtime a statement from the Arab League was released. When either CNN or the BBC put it up i'll post it. Although they hold Israel responsible they have told Hamas it must also accept responsibility for their actions.

As I said if Hamas weren't perceived (correctly) as a threat the hardliners in Israel would lose support for such actions.

 

[segua]

I don't trust CNN if CNN were to put out a translation. BBC has more credibility thought I would prefer a translation from an reliable, trustworthy source.