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I'll post this on Mangafox too...
I was reading a couple of the older chapters and thinking about the recent developments and I must ask, what is it that determines a Claymores power? Is their strength based on the strength of the yoma whose DNA is in their bodies? Is their power based on training? Does the power of a Claymore stem from their mindset before becoming a Claymore or afterwards? Are all these questions a waste of time because Yagi forget about these holes?
A few things, I was reading the Endless Gravestones which is volumes six through seven I believe. It's the chapters where Clare meets and later fights Ophelia. After Clare tries to regenerate the arm Ophelia cut off, Ophelia tells her that it's impossible for her to do it because she's an offensive type. Ophelia claims that "after" one becomes a Claymore do they think about defending themselves or killing their enemies? From there, they develop accordingly. Many chapters later, this is more or less confirmed and maybe even contradicted by Deneve depending on how one interprets things. Deneve tells us that she hid under the bed as a yoma devoured her sister. I remember her telling Butch, I mean Undine that all she could think about after the fact was protecting herself. As time went on Deneve became a defensive type. The issue here is that Ophelia claims that one’s mindset determines what type of Claymore they are after they take yoma flesh into themselves. According to Deneve this entire process starts before. Of course that's a smaller issue here. The question is does mindset even matter or is there some other factor that is more important?
Exhibit A is Priscilla. Priscilla is a defensive type, presumably because no offensive type can regenerate unless we're talking about an Abyssal One and even they can't begin to regenerate at a fraction of Priscilla's speed. So she seems to be a defensive type. However, as a child Priscilla killed her father who had become a yoma. It seems that she should technically be an offensive type but she isn't. Now you might say that perhaps she killed her father so as to defend herself. Kill daddy yoma before he knows you're in the room and get a chance to kill you. Self-defense = defensive type. I would argue against that angle because there are too many inconsistencies in how this works. When Ophelia escaped from Priscilla and fled her village this was no doubt a defensive act of self-preservation. From a genetic standpoint, Priscilla's danger stimulated a flight response in Ophelia rather than a fight response. Ophelia should technically be an defensive type yet she is an offensive type. You might argue that perhaps she was thinking about killing Priscilla the entire time and thus was undergoing the mental transformation to become an offensive type. This is further proven by Clare's condition who, while fleeing the carnage of battle could probably only think of killing Priscilla and thus became and offensive type. So if mindset does determine ones type we are left with a question of what came first the chicken or the egg? Does the transformation start before yoma DNA is implanted into the body or afterwards. Of course there is another issue to consider as well. The Black Ones.
Correct me if I'm wrong but in "developing" the Black Ones the organization destroyed their sense of self. The twins were raised to be robots more or less so as to better develop the soul link. Both twins ended up being offensive types which leads me to wonder if the organization has a way to determine how a Claymore develops. Come and take a walk with me. If Alicia and Beth had no sense of self, if they were robots more or less then how would their mindset determine whether or not they would be offensive or defensive? They have no mind to serve as a compass for their development. I'm not saying they're brainless, oh goodness no. Rather, given that the organization destroyed their autonomy and with that their sense of self, it shouldn't have been possible for the twins to develop in either direction (offensive or defensive) unless there was an outside variable controlling how the MIB develop Claymores.
This is further complicated by outliers in the ranks such as Miata. Miata is mentally unstable which, from what I can tell is something that goes deeper than perhaps losing her family to yoma. I haven't researched her extensively but Miata's mental illness seems like it was inherited rather than acquired. How does a crazy Claymore develop? Sorry for being politically incorrect (then again not really) but how would a Claymore with a pre-existing mental conditions develop? They wouldn't develop normally that's for certain. In Ophelia's case the crazies didn't set in until after her brother was killed. With regards to Miata though, her illness seems to have been long-standing. It would be impossible for her to develop like other offensive types so again, the MIB must have some other means to determine how their Claymore become defensive or offensive.
Finally, the biggest concern here is Roxanne of Love and Hate. I really don't feel like looking for my old posts so to summarize, Roxanne has proven to possess an ability to copy the other techniques used by Claymores. Due to her own mental instability, she obsesses over Claymore she finds interesting and she undergoes her own mental conditioning to "become" the Claymore of her desires. We have seen this at least three times where Roxanne sees a Claymore who interests her and in trying to become like them, she gets closer to them, trains with them, and so forth until eventually she becomes them. After that happens she kills the Claymore in question (there can be only one). As I explained at length before, some people have that kind of obsession. When trying to become like the person they admire most, some mentally unstable people in the real world will actually do things like change the way they dress, the way they talk, and in extreme cases they will actually eat the hair and nails of the person who they're trying to become and at some point they will try and kill that same person they admire so. With the exception of the hair and nail thing (which probably happened off-panel) Roxanne seems to fit the profile. What is curious about Roxanne is that not only does she seem to change her fighting style but she appears to be a Claymore who can actually switch from being offensive or defensive.
Roxanne and Uranus both had a style called the Blade of Evil which is almost assuredly offensive. After Roxane "became" Uranus she killed her. Neideen then caught Roxanne's eye and in trying to become more like Neideen, Roxanne either gouged out her own eye or let herself be injured in a battle. Of course the wound is too clean to be battle related which leads me to conclude that Roxanne did it to herself. After Roxanne learned Neideen's fighting style she "became" Neideen and killed her during a hunt for an awakened being. According to our nameless narrator, Roxanne's eye healed the very instant Neideen died in battle. Roxanne later killed Elizabeth after stealing her style as well. It seems to me that based on the techniques she's been able to acquire, how she changes up her styles, and her healing rate, Roxanne may be able to actually change her "type" based on the Claymore she copied last. If the Claymore was an offensive type and she copies them she becomes an offensive type. If the Claymore was a defensive type and she copies them then she becomes a defensive type.
Of course everything I said here could be entirely wrong but these are some items that doth truly plague my mind.
I was reading a couple of the older chapters and thinking about the recent developments and I must ask, what is it that determines a Claymores power? Is their strength based on the strength of the yoma whose DNA is in their bodies? Is their power based on training? Does the power of a Claymore stem from their mindset before becoming a Claymore or afterwards? Are all these questions a waste of time because Yagi forget about these holes?
A few things, I was reading the Endless Gravestones which is volumes six through seven I believe. It's the chapters where Clare meets and later fights Ophelia. After Clare tries to regenerate the arm Ophelia cut off, Ophelia tells her that it's impossible for her to do it because she's an offensive type. Ophelia claims that "after" one becomes a Claymore do they think about defending themselves or killing their enemies? From there, they develop accordingly. Many chapters later, this is more or less confirmed and maybe even contradicted by Deneve depending on how one interprets things. Deneve tells us that she hid under the bed as a yoma devoured her sister. I remember her telling Butch, I mean Undine that all she could think about after the fact was protecting herself. As time went on Deneve became a defensive type. The issue here is that Ophelia claims that one’s mindset determines what type of Claymore they are after they take yoma flesh into themselves. According to Deneve this entire process starts before. Of course that's a smaller issue here. The question is does mindset even matter or is there some other factor that is more important?
Exhibit A is Priscilla. Priscilla is a defensive type, presumably because no offensive type can regenerate unless we're talking about an Abyssal One and even they can't begin to regenerate at a fraction of Priscilla's speed. So she seems to be a defensive type. However, as a child Priscilla killed her father who had become a yoma. It seems that she should technically be an offensive type but she isn't. Now you might say that perhaps she killed her father so as to defend herself. Kill daddy yoma before he knows you're in the room and get a chance to kill you. Self-defense = defensive type. I would argue against that angle because there are too many inconsistencies in how this works. When Ophelia escaped from Priscilla and fled her village this was no doubt a defensive act of self-preservation. From a genetic standpoint, Priscilla's danger stimulated a flight response in Ophelia rather than a fight response. Ophelia should technically be an defensive type yet she is an offensive type. You might argue that perhaps she was thinking about killing Priscilla the entire time and thus was undergoing the mental transformation to become an offensive type. This is further proven by Clare's condition who, while fleeing the carnage of battle could probably only think of killing Priscilla and thus became and offensive type. So if mindset does determine ones type we are left with a question of what came first the chicken or the egg? Does the transformation start before yoma DNA is implanted into the body or afterwards. Of course there is another issue to consider as well. The Black Ones.
Correct me if I'm wrong but in "developing" the Black Ones the organization destroyed their sense of self. The twins were raised to be robots more or less so as to better develop the soul link. Both twins ended up being offensive types which leads me to wonder if the organization has a way to determine how a Claymore develops. Come and take a walk with me. If Alicia and Beth had no sense of self, if they were robots more or less then how would their mindset determine whether or not they would be offensive or defensive? They have no mind to serve as a compass for their development. I'm not saying they're brainless, oh goodness no. Rather, given that the organization destroyed their autonomy and with that their sense of self, it shouldn't have been possible for the twins to develop in either direction (offensive or defensive) unless there was an outside variable controlling how the MIB develop Claymores.
This is further complicated by outliers in the ranks such as Miata. Miata is mentally unstable which, from what I can tell is something that goes deeper than perhaps losing her family to yoma. I haven't researched her extensively but Miata's mental illness seems like it was inherited rather than acquired. How does a crazy Claymore develop? Sorry for being politically incorrect (then again not really) but how would a Claymore with a pre-existing mental conditions develop? They wouldn't develop normally that's for certain. In Ophelia's case the crazies didn't set in until after her brother was killed. With regards to Miata though, her illness seems to have been long-standing. It would be impossible for her to develop like other offensive types so again, the MIB must have some other means to determine how their Claymore become defensive or offensive.
Finally, the biggest concern here is Roxanne of Love and Hate. I really don't feel like looking for my old posts so to summarize, Roxanne has proven to possess an ability to copy the other techniques used by Claymores. Due to her own mental instability, she obsesses over Claymore she finds interesting and she undergoes her own mental conditioning to "become" the Claymore of her desires. We have seen this at least three times where Roxanne sees a Claymore who interests her and in trying to become like them, she gets closer to them, trains with them, and so forth until eventually she becomes them. After that happens she kills the Claymore in question (there can be only one). As I explained at length before, some people have that kind of obsession. When trying to become like the person they admire most, some mentally unstable people in the real world will actually do things like change the way they dress, the way they talk, and in extreme cases they will actually eat the hair and nails of the person who they're trying to become and at some point they will try and kill that same person they admire so. With the exception of the hair and nail thing (which probably happened off-panel) Roxanne seems to fit the profile. What is curious about Roxanne is that not only does she seem to change her fighting style but she appears to be a Claymore who can actually switch from being offensive or defensive.
Roxanne and Uranus both had a style called the Blade of Evil which is almost assuredly offensive. After Roxane "became" Uranus she killed her. Neideen then caught Roxanne's eye and in trying to become more like Neideen, Roxanne either gouged out her own eye or let herself be injured in a battle. Of course the wound is too clean to be battle related which leads me to conclude that Roxanne did it to herself. After Roxanne learned Neideen's fighting style she "became" Neideen and killed her during a hunt for an awakened being. According to our nameless narrator, Roxanne's eye healed the very instant Neideen died in battle. Roxanne later killed Elizabeth after stealing her style as well. It seems to me that based on the techniques she's been able to acquire, how she changes up her styles, and her healing rate, Roxanne may be able to actually change her "type" based on the Claymore she copied last. If the Claymore was an offensive type and she copies them she becomes an offensive type. If the Claymore was a defensive type and she copies them then she becomes a defensive type.
Of course everything I said here could be entirely wrong but these are some items that doth truly plague my mind.
