Discussion How deep is your canon...

[Ninomiya]

Where in my post did I say that they were canon though? All I did was EQUATING fillers WITH all the films that aren't Strong World.

In the part where you said "OMG THIS ISN'T CANONNNNNN!!!!! " and the part where you said they are "doing a good job"
If you the fillers and non-strong world movies don't strike you as being strongly non-canon then I was just saying I'm pretty much shocked and was listing down examples.
I never even said that you said they were canon. I'm saying that I think the opposite and that the Non-Strong World Movies did a bad job excluding Film Z.

The bold and capital letters in your post is unnecessary. I pretty much replied to your post fairly.

 

[hoeru]

I don't consider myself an expert on One Piece, so whatever else that comes up (SBS, movies, etc.) I just see as extra information that doesn't have a big impact or influence on the actual main story.

Super-floating wood. And those special SBS about Merry's and Sunny's ship interior. And character ages. They're all canon and have been brought up by SBS.

Most of the stuff is only background information - but once Oda decides to reveal stuff in SBS, it is canon as it comes directly from him.

 

[Anduren]

Super-floating wood. And those special SBS about Merry's and Sunny's ship interior. And character ages. They're all canon and have been brought up by SBS.

Most of the stuff is only background information - but once Oda decides to reveal stuff in SBS, it is canon as it comes directly from him.

Its fine that it's canon.... I have no reason to refute it or debate over it. I'm just saying that if it was so important and pivotal to the main plot of the story it would probably also be explained in the manga directly.

For example, how knock up streams work and how the cumuloregalis cloud is able to support structures was explained directly in the story so even someone like me who isn't exposed to SBS and the like still know about it. Since those kinds of things don't exist in this world, suddenly being expected to believe that there's an island floating in the sky would be hard for a reader to believe without an explanation (which is why I believe it was explicitly explained in the manga as important to make the story believable). But since I don't keep up with stuff outside the manga and anime, I don't expect most people to know those details like the Super-floating wood.

But if a situation ever came up where people would debate over "why did the wood not sink when it should've?" then this little tidbit about the super-floating wood would be important and the fact that it's canon with regards to the story even though it wasn't stated in the manga would also be important.... until that happens though, (I think) it's not really that important for everybody who keeps up with the story to know.

EDIT: Actually, if you're talking about the floating wood the strawhats used to rise out into the new world, I was already satisfied (as a reader) with the explanation that Franky gave here in the manga.

 

[M3J]

Its fine that it's canon.... I have no reason to refute it or debate over it. I'm just saying that if it was so important and pivotal to the main plot of the story it would probably also be explained in the manga directly.

For example, how knock up streams work and how the cumuloregalis cloud is able to support structures was explained directly in the story so even someone like me who isn't exposed to SBS and the like still know about it. Since those kinds of things don't exist in this world, suddenly being expected to believe that there's an island floating in the sky would be hard for a reader to believe without an explanation (which is why I believe it was explicitly explained in the manga as important to make the story believable). But since I don't keep up with stuff outside the manga and anime, I don't expect most people to know those details like the Super-floating wood.

But if a situation ever came up where people would debate over "why did the wood not sink when it should've?" then this little tidbit about the super-floating wood would be important and the fact that it's canon with regards to the story even though it wasn't stated in the manga would also be important.... until that happens though, (I think) it's not really that important for everybody who keeps up with the story to know.

EDIT: Actually, if you're talking about the floating wood the strawhats used to rise out into the new world, I was already satisfied (as a reader) with the explanation that Franky gave here in the manga.

You can use SBS as extra info for the manga until Oda actually confirms it in the manga. Unless shown otherwise, I guess we can take stuff like the Shichibukai drawn as kids as canon. To be honest though, I wouldn't take it as 100% fact or canon until the manga proves it so. I mean, what stops Oda from drawing Crocodile as a guy in the SBS but actually drawing him as originally being a girl in the manga, which he always planned on doing?

 

[Razh]

Just to add, that picture of Crocodile in SBS could also be showing a tomboyish girl. Purposefully, most likely.

 

[winterwyrm]

In other words you're saying Oda contradicts himself and his own works.
SBS and Databooks are supposed to be Oda no different to the manga.

SBS is, but the databooks have been proven to have been written by people who only communicate with Oda, for reference see here: http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Marshall_D._Teach#Trivia

After his first appearance the databooks said that blackbeard was "cherry pie man" who lived in loguetown, ironically because that databook was written right between when blackbeard was shown there, and he was revealed, it came out about two-three chapters after blackbeard had been revealed, and honestly the conversation he had with luffy heavily implied that he was not a native of loguetown, honestly we could have made a better guess than that. The databooks are mostly just recap, with oda likely throwing them a bone or two here and there, since some critical information has been released in them.

In the anime marco was portrayed as a stock character when shanks met whitebeard as well, I doubt there is any communication there, we should just go by the manga and the additions to it that come with new volumes, that includes the SBS.

 

[Razh]

Not really important, but I think you meant Mock Town.

 

[Ninomiya]

@winterwyrm Thanks I didn't actually know that.
Since the Databooks involve middle men scribing things down for Oda as oppose to the Manga/SBS I'll only count Manga/SBS as canon then.
I guess Databooks can count as canon to a certain extent but not like Manga/SBS then.

 

[hoeru]

SBS is, but the databooks have been proven to have been written by people who only communicate with Oda, for reference see here: http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Marshall_D._Teach#Trivia

See, creating books is a ongoing process up to certain deadlines. If one is done collecting information, another one is starting his work on the final layout on how to present the collected data etc.

Up to that collecting deadline of One Piece Blue, Volume 24 was just released in Japan:

• Volume 24th 1st edition was published on Sep 9th, 2002
• One Piece Blue's 1st edition was published on Aug 7th, 2002
• Volume 25th 1st edition was published on Nov 9th, 2002

Those dates come directly from the RAW versions.

Add up the time to printing hundred thousands of copies, and you have your reason why Blackbeard is only listed as "Cherry-pie man" in One Piece Blue. Not having the name "Blackbeard" appearing next to the "Cherry-pie man"'s image is hardly proof that Oda does not work on databooks.

One Piece Databooks have always been actual up to the latest tankobon, not the latest Jump chapter. This hasn't changed much even though Oda lately provides character names in databooks - and this actually is evidence that Oda does have massive influence on the databooks.

After his first appearance the databooks said that blackbeard was "cherry pie man" who lived in loguetown

I don't know whatever "translation" you read on this entry. But what you're stating is wrong and completely made up.

The entry "Cherry-pie man" in the databook OPBlue doesn't say anything about him living in Loguetown (Which would the wrong town anyways btw: Did you mean "Mock Town" by any chance?), nor does it even mention a town at all. It just says that Luffy and he got into a quarrel about their different tastes on cherry-pies and the bar's drink.

Here's his entry:


There's nothing about either ローグタウン or モックタウン, so it can't mention him living in Loguetown (or Mock Town).

In the anime marco was portrayed as a stock character when shanks met whitebeard as well,

Wrong. That was when Rockstar came on board, and he just had the wrong hair color. In the manga, Marco wasn't actually that detailed with two lines of dialogue, either. So what is left there is some odd color pattern for both Marco and Jozu.

 

[winterwyrm]

@hoeru- Not true, it explicitly states that "cherry pie man" is his name, and that he is a "regular customer of the mock town pub" which is not possible, since ace's adventures tell that BB left whitebeard's crew not too long ago, and BB had been in drum kingdom recently, therefore due to him being obviously active, and just dropping by mock town, that could not be true. They obviously just guessed about him because they thought we would never see him again.

Well it is up for debate about marco, but he really looks like the anime writers didn't know he was supposed to be a significant character, if you watch the episode, he doesn't move much in the background, if they had known he would be a big deal, they typically show him looking up, or doing something to emphasize him, instead he is drawn as part of the background.

Yes, I did list the wrong town though, I read that some time ago.

 

[hoeru]

@hoeru- Not true, it explicitly states that "cherry pie man" is his name, and that he is a "regular customer of the mock town pub" which is not possible,

You seem to mistake "regular" as "habitual" instead of "ordinary" in that half sentence in the One Piece wiki. Appearing ordinary fits perfectly to Blackbeard and how he maintained a low profile. In that exerpt I posted, there's nothing about the Cherry Pie Man showing up in the bar repeatedly. He just met Luffy in that bar and almost got into a fight with him upon cherry pie, and the drink Luffy liked - translate yourself, please.

And why are you ignoring what I've told about the process of making books? OPBlue was released in between Volumes 24 and 25. Blackbeard's name and those of his crewmen Van Augur Doc Q and Jesus Burgess were revealed in Vol.25. And as databooks reflect the state of knowledge based on the tankobon - in this case Volumes 01 to 24 - it's overly clear that Blackbeard's name wasn't mentioned in the databook, as the name wasn't mentioned in the Summary of Vol.25, either. It's not an error in the databook. Oda just held the name back as it was about to be revealed.

There's clearly nothing to doubt about the canocity of databooks at this point, just because Oda's attitude has changed to reveal names in databooks some years later.

Well it is up for debate about marco, but he really looks like the anime writers didn't know he was supposed to be a significant character, if you watch the episode, he doesn't move much in the background, if they had known he would be a big deal, they typically show him looking up, or doing something to emphasize him, instead he is drawn as part of the background.

Rewatch epiosde 151, please. He had dialogue and was talking with Rockstar. And around 16:50, he's no longer in the background. They only changed his hair color and didn't draw him too detailed. That's the only thing.

That's basically the same error, the Anime creators have been done upon Robin's wrong eye color - because of an error of Oda where he simply forgot to color her eyes on the colored cover of chapter 160.

 

[M3J]

Well it is up for debate about marco, but he really looks like the anime writers didn't know he was supposed to be a significant character, if you watch the episode, he doesn't move much in the background, if they had known he would be a big deal, they typically show him looking up, or doing something to emphasize him, instead he is drawn as part of the background.

Yes, I did list the wrong town though, I read that some time ago.

Anime honestly should absolutely not be taken canon whatsoever, given that the animators tend take liberties or put in fillers or whatnot. Databooks shouldn't be taken as 100% proof or fact either, given that they're not always up to date with the latest chapters. As I've said, first source is always the best source, and in this case it's the manga. The SBS and databooks are secondary sources, and Oda can contradict them any time he wants to or mislead people if he chooses to.

 

[BetaRuler]

I BELIEVE WHATEVER ODA TELLS ME TO BELIEVE! THAT IS GOOD ENOUGH!

 

[Greasybuttsex]

i read the manga and watch the anime and if its not in the manga im like hey thats filler and think no more of it.

 

[k-dom]

I think the only grey zone is Strong World because the main character appeared in one panel of the manga but honestly making it canon would only weaken the story for me so I prefer to put it out of it. It does not seem like Oda will refer to it again anyway. The databooks added values are only some fodders names so there is very few arm considering them canon and I can't remember when was the last time a SBS said something really interesting.

 

[Asarii]

In the part where you said "OMG THIS ISN'T CANONNNNNN!!!!! " and the part where you said they are "doing a good job"
If you the fillers and non-strong world movies don't strike you as being strongly non-canon then I was just saying I'm pretty much shocked and was listing down examples.
I never even said that you said they were canon. I'm saying that I think the opposite and that the Non-Strong World Movies did a bad job excluding Film Z.

Let me clarify: the fillers and non-Strong World films (aside from the Alabasta and Drum Island remakes since I haven't watched those) are doing a good job at maintaing the elements of ONE PIECE. Obviously the fillers and non-Strong World are not canon: anything they do might be given an ok by Oda at first, but it is not up to him to decide what should be done. Considering the fact that Oda doesn't have the final say, I think OP is doing a fine job with fillers in comparison to other series.

Anyway, I don't look for quality in fillers; I only want to be entertained.

The bold and capital letters in your post is unnecessary. I pretty much replied to your post fairly.

The "Lol?" in your post was unnecessary too since it gives a mocking tone to your post. I apologize for the bold and capital though.

 

[7pac]

never watched an anime episode or a movie, just some fights that weren't as good as in the manga.

only manga 100%.

 

[TheLuffySmile]

What appears/is stated in the manga ftw!

 

[deleted]

Usually manga only (including SBS). Once there is anime involved it gets somewhat messy, so I usually stick to what is being written on paper. Databooks are an exception since I came to the quite shocking realization that in many mangas and animes the information in the databook is not absolute. Best OP example would be that in one databook they said that Cutty Flam was dead and *surprise surprise* it later was contradicted by the manga, saying that it was Franky all along.

So, in a nutshell, manga only for cannon, anything else (anime/ movies/ databooks) for headcanon.

 

[jaymizzo]

Manga only.

The anime I use as a way to see how an attack would look like in real time if I hadn't imagined it myself or to hear Robins voice. Actually, I mostly watch the Anime to hear and watch Robin (would be obsessed with it if Booney was more involved), that and a side of seeing cool attacks etc. Anything else like detours or passage of time I think of as filler (say an additional attack that was not in the Manga, Filler)