How did I do cleaning? (Tsurebito)

Mana Light

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The pattern looks fine for me. There are other digitals that look even sharper. Of course, sharp is not good.

Cleans look fine for me. I even can't see it with my screen, had to make another layer and level 0.1 to see. If you don't want it, just use use pencil (+ select erea) then erase it
 

Gradonil_Ral

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I even can't see it with my screen
Clearly, you should get a better monitor. Or at least re-calibrate the one you have.
I can see about 50 dots of dirt with a naked eye. Way more if I turn on adjustment layers.
Did you mean Lasso?

Besides, Dodge will be faster then selecting all these white areas and filling it with white (which I hope is what you meant, because "erasing" the selection will make holes in the page).
 

Mana Light

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I wonder if I should do it. I use PC and laptop. Dust can be seen with laptop but still not that matter to me. be easy > more works.

If dust is too big to the point I can't endure, just make another adjustment layer (level 0.1) and use pencil with small diameter then "erase" it (brush it out).
Eraser will make hole but pencil won't.

To me, I rather use pencil or select area then fill white than dodging. To me, dodge tool is slower. I made action to fill white/black faster. I don't use lasso as other cleaners. I use pen tool.

Dust is hard to see in my screen but this screen is great to see pattern. That will be hard to see in laptop or other PC I used. If I don't use this PC (screen), i doubt i can clean as i am now.
Anyways, other cleaners usually use dodge to dodge dusts but I don't think it is good so I don't use. It is each person's choice.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Anyways, here is another way to help get rid of dust but only mall dust. It is called soften pattern. yeah another thing was developed by me.

After leveling at high size, you can do soften pattern, don't do recover step at 3000 px high.
Resize to final size then level 3 1 250 to get rid of small dust. The remain is only big dust that you can remove by hand.
___________________
Mana Light said:
Resize to 8312 px high. Then Denoise Strength 0.4
(Use Select Color range to recover details in black matter)

Resize to 4156 px high. Then Denoise Strength 0.2
(Use Select Color range to recover details in black matter)

Resize to 8312 px high. Then Denoise Strength 0.4
(Use Select Color range to recover details in black matter)

Resize to 3000 px high. Then Denoise Strength 0.15
(Don't don't Select Color range to recover detail in black matter or this denoise will be in vain = Don't have effect denoise for dots that are in black matter)

(Recover at size 3000 px high: Recover dots/details, which near white matter or in white matter that are lost because of denoise, by Select Color range) << Don't do this step

Resize to final size.
http://choco-vani.blogspot.com/2016/09/chocolat-vanilla-cleaning-guide-how-to.html
 

Gradonil_Ral

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Well... getting a new monitor doesn't mean you need to get rid of the old one. I know plenty of cleaners that run multiple screens.

Oh, so you brush with Pencil instead of Brush? I never use pencil, so it confused me.

IDK how you dodge/burn, but I am way faster than the speed you showed with pen+fill. On the other hand filling selection on a new layer is better since you can make corrections to said layer any time you want.
And I see you're also using RHS' Bubble Fill method. And yes, I also adjusted it for other uses.
Though, I suggest you should assign keys to fill black and fill white actions (e.g Shit+F6 and Ctrl+F6) and you should really assign a key to show/hide layers. I use Ctrl+Q myself (having it as Quit PS is really a waste of prime button + you can quit with alt+f4 anyway).


Your Soften Pattern video is to confusing :P You really should edit your videos before uploading them.
Then again, I don't have the patience to watch long vids on youtube. Downloading tutorial vids is better since you can easily go back a few frames, while yt skips by large parts.
Besides, we have different screen resolutions so I can't even see your vids in proper size 720p is too small, fullscreen enlarges everything. :|
 

Mana Light

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Video is for seeing how it should be done. Then mimic the steps. If someone don't want to watch video, just read how to do it. I wrote it. I just made video because I supposed others can't understand.
"Resize to 8312 px high. Then Denoise Strength 0.4
(Use Select Color range to recover details in black matter)

Resize to 4156 px high. Then Denoise Strength 0.2
(Use Select Color range to recover details in black matter)

Resize to 8312 px high. Then Denoise Strength 0.4
(Use Select Color range to recover details in black matter)

Resize to 3000 px high. Then Denoise Strength 0.15"

Video is not for ppl to see how cleans should be looked. It will be bettter if I upload original videos - 1920x1440). Youtube encoded video again and lower quality.
Anyways, I can use megui and avisynth to edit video (make denoise process faster) since I am in fansub before in manga but I won't. If someone don't have enough patience, it is not my matter. I don't have duty to guide them in the first place. If they really want to be cleaner, they should know how hard to learn how to clean alone. This "much" trouble for me is not considerable.

I set F4 as playing action and F3 as hide/show layer. F2 to see at actual pixel. Shit+F6 or Ctrl+F6 mean you have to push 2 button. And yeah I make another layer that I will fill white or black. In video, its name is BB (mean bubble).
 

Gradonil_Ral

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Well, the video has way more steps than what you wrote here. Which is my point exactly.

And sure, it's not your duty to guide anyone, but since you're making tutorials, videos, etc., they should be clear and to the point. Otherwise, what's the point?
I've been a cleaner for over 8 years now (though, not too active recently), have used Photoshop for about 12, and yet I find this video confusing (some of the other ones you made, too, actually). Then again, I don't feel like watching carefully, multiple times and trying to recreate what you do there myself, since I don't really need that.

As for the keys, I wrote that based on the video. There were no keys assigned to those actions in it. And you were hiding/showing layers manually.
 

Mana Light

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In video soften pattern, you will see I played action. I just stop in middle to show what I did and what will better after process.This mean just do what I did in the action. Soften pattern doesn't need any hide or show layer. Even if it needs, it is just action.

As I said, it was developed by me. Other cleans don't know it. They will just denoise one time at 3000 px high that will not bring much effects as mine. There is a lot that probably other cleaners can't know what it is in my guide but they can still clean it with their own ways.

You need to know what is select color range first.
I used select > color range. that appears a lot in my guide. To fix gradient and to recover details.

What in video itself is a action. just play action without stop.
In my videos, for some video, i don't use shortcut, if i use shortcut, newbie can't understand.
You can see I used shortcut here.

(On other hands, you need to select layer that need to hide then press shortcut (F3), after using for a long time, I see it annoyed and just click to hide it by hand without select any layer so that I can remain select in a certain layer. For example, if i am in layer bubble now, and want to show/hide layer cleans, just click by hand, if i used shortcut, i had to select layer cleans and press F3 then select layer bubbles again. this will have more steps.)

Anyways, this is supposed for newbie to learn, not for other cleaners to check what I did quickly. I tried my best to write my guide. The method itself is complicated. They need to practice to understand. If they still don't understand, they can ask.
 
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mwsmws22

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Alright so I'm back guys.

I put out the latest chapter following the suggestions from ManaLight.
Chapter 20: http://bato.to/reader#8d34f3a5bbc0da8b

I didn't do much with the dust because it wasn't that noticeable.
How'd I do otherwise? Redraws and cleaning.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, I'm really curious, how does chapter 20 compare to chapter 18 in terms of cleaning?
Chapter 18: http://bato.to/reader#cecaecc3fa0c467d

Chapter 18 is the original way I tried.
It's super high res and detailed, which I like.
But the reason I took issue is because the streaks in the screentone are annoying.

At this point, though, I can't decide which cleaning process I like better.

Which do you guys prefer, chapter 20 or chapter 18?

Thanks for the input as always,
- mwsmws22
 

Gradonil_Ral

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Looks to me that you overleveled whites. Quite a bit of lighters patterns (with and without gradients) is damaged (from what I can tell).
Redraws look really nice, though.

In all honesty, I prefer ch18 version. But that might be just case I'm not a huge fan of 1600px high releases. I'd rather have at least 1800.

Hmm... How about you try to use your ch18's method with a little less denoise?

BTW. Could you also upload raw for page 18?
 

mwsmws22

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Raws:

I will try chapter 18's method with less denoise and post it when I'm done
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Okay, I lowered the denoise on the chapter 18 technique, but I don't think it made much difference. Also the levels were changed as well, which was necessary to reduce the leftover noise.

My main issue with this cleaning process, and the chapter 20 process as well, is the diagonal streaks that show up in the screentone. In this example it is very obvious. Any tips for fixing this?
 

Mana Light

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Yeah, 1800 px high is better for these tones. With this cleaning way to other manga, it can be 1400, 1600, 1800 or none of them.

Btw, I tried another way to clean that I've noticed recently in cleaning mag raws. It seems it needs more modifications to use with tank raws. More details in black matter were lost. But I won't spend more time in tank raws. The current topaz way is good.


Anyways you can use topaz way you used in chap 19 but sharp with radius ~1 + use topaz clean.
____
Oh, it seems 1300 px looks better.
____
So soften pattern has errors. Lol, what I create but don't know how to use.
Here is fix.

 
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mwsmws22

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I appreciate the videos! I will definitely use them to fix my mistakes!

For the example you included along with page 27, is it because of the original scans that it looks so good?
Is there anything I can change in my scanner settings to improve the quality of my raws? Can I get them to look this good, or is it just not possible...

Thanks,
- mwsmws22
 

Mana Light

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The example I included along is what i mean that the final size depends on manga, 1400 px looks better for that manga. It is mag raws and actually raws were a bit sharped so it is not too good. It is because it is mag raws (was printed with bolder color) and the dots mangaka used are different, so that manga can look better.
Your raws are good. Don't need to change anything.
 

mwsmws22

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I've been working on it, following the video, but I can't seem to get it the same.

Everything looks good until after you first resize it, then it starts to look slightly different on my end. Is there anyway I could see what exactly those two actions specifically do? RESIZE BIGGER TO LEVEL and SHARPEN WITH RADIUS~1.

That's where i think i might have messed up, but i really don't know.

Here is the final copy I ended up with. Maybe you can tell what went wrong.
Obviously this isn't close to what it should be, so I will keep working on it.

Thanks,
- mwsmws22
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Okay, so I tried it again, but still no dice.

It looks a bit better, but the streaks are still obvious. Maybe oversharpened?

Also here are the actions I used, mimicked as closely as i could from your video.
http://www106.zippyshare.com/v/oUdLah0W/file.html

I hope it's not an obvious mistake, lol.

Thanks,
- mwsmws22
--- Double Post Merged, ---
I figured it out, and its a bit weird.
When I do the final resize, at 1800, it messes it up some how. Beats me.
But, if I don't resize, and just save it at 1800 via save for web, then it works fine.

Here is the final (without applying the fix).
how close did I get?

thanks,
- mwsmws22
 
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Mana Light

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It is almost the same. You should use the fix. Soften pattern has a critical weakness. It makes cleans blur but it is very hard to notice.
In cleaning, it will take long time to realize your own mistake after doing and observing more and more. Compare to other errors, it took me longer to notice soften patten's weakness.
Purpose of soften pattern method is to make pattern slightly better without losing much details.
Recover step at size 3k also recovers dusts so don't use recover. If we don't recover, it means we don't recover dusts. So the soften pattern can also to be used to remove small dusts. (after long time, i realized it). We don't need that much details :v. Get rid of dust >

Problem is although soften pattern seems to make pattern a bit better, the patterns were blurry. use the fix to a void it.
Purpose of soften pattern is no longer as it was in the beginning. Now it is to make small dusts disappear (and make pattern very slightly better).
 

mwsmws22

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Alright, I'll use the fix going forward.

For now...

Is there any trick for cleaning pages with heavy black screentones. I got quite a few like this one that lose detail due to leveling.
I mean, it looks fine as is in my opinion, but I was curious if there was any specific way to clean these parts.

Thanks,
- mwsmws22
 

Mana Light

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You shouldn't level too black. Small dusts in black matter can disappread after resizing to final size. I don't know any ways to do those parts.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

UPDATE
Fix 2 for soften pattern: after step select color range: highlight, use smooth with 1 px 3 times then continue.
Also need to use select color range: shadow, then use smooth with 1 px 4 times after using complements to make light dots and lines keep their own original states. (hypothesis from the fact,so not sure, need to do to see what it will become with this raw)
So in the end, soften pattern has its effect to make light pattern slightly better and complement will lose its effect as matter dots better and remain effect that makes black matter better.
Will update with image later.
 

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