Discussion How strong is Doflamingo?

[desin24]

Now that the fight against DD finally started and I saw widely diverging ideas about how strong Doflamingo I thought about starting this thread. There are people who say that both Law and Luffy are needed to beat DD since he is so powerful while others say that once DD stops using clones and puppets and fights himself that Luffy will be suffice. So how strong is he looking at what we know already?

He is a Shishibukai.
Out of all 7 of the Shishibukai in the Marinefordwar only him and Mihawk and Hancock stayed unscathed, which kinda puts him on the higher end of the shishibukai. We saw him jump over!! Oars Jr and easily cut off a leg or arm can't remember^^. He stopped Diamond Jozu with his strings which given Jozu's impressive strength it's quite a feat.
We know he beat the living shit out of an already wounded Smoker and escaped Kuzan's ice with a fat grin on his face. Which kinda implies that if he had to, he could engage Kuzan in combat not necessarily winning or owning Kuzan( which is not possible with fighters on such a level) but definitely giving him a good fight. We have DD' s Over Heat which was aimed to cut Sanji in half. He missed and that string reached all the way to Dresrosa, a mile or 2 maybe more and sliced up a building!!

He has all 3 forms of haki and is proficient enough in Armament Haki to use the black hardening.

Now all his feats together with the hype that he is the first real threat since the time skip definitely show that Luffy will go all out.
He just has to be more powerful than anyone Luffy ever faced so Luffy can grow through the fight. Ever since the timeskip I don't think Luffy grew because of the fight with Hody or CC(which was pwnage and no real fight)!
So at the end of this now very cohesive text(sorry for that), IMO DD is near the Admiral tier.
In my eyes tier means that in that tier people can go head to head,all out and both could possibly win.
IMO Luffy alone should barely be able to beat DD and that's why for the first hit and later on he will have slight help from others.
Since I see DD as an immensely powerful guy it doesn't diminish Luffy's training in the slightest, but shows that he can go straight for top tier combatants.

Sooo what do you guys think?

 

[HereNThere]

Well...it's not like I can argue with any of your assertions. The proof is all there. He is one of the strongest people in the series and will be the opponent to make Luffy finally get serious since the end of Part 1. Both he and Zoro have done nothing but glide through there opponents, their only issues being circumstances, such as Hodi being underwater and Ceasar being capable of robbing the air in his immediate vicinity.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

Well he's prolly the strongest character the SHs had to face up to this point, I'm curious how he'll react to the red hawk, will he be diminished, or will he recover like nothing happened? If it's the latter then obviously Luffy will have to resort to stronger techniques, maybe a red hawk gatling?

 

[desin24]

Well he's prolly the strongest character the SHs had to face up to this point, I'm curious how he'll react to the red hawk, will he be diminished, or will he recover like nothing happened? If it's the latter then obviously Luffy will have to resort to stronger techniques, maybe a red hawk gatling?

Well we have seen him spit blood and make a not so happy face. He will probably comment on what a mistake they made to make him angry aaaaand cut to another fight . Storytellingwise I don't think DD should show any kind fighting impairment since it builds drama to eat one of luffy's most powerful attacks and then act like it didn't affect him at all even though it obviously did as we have seen.

I saw a theory somewhere that luffy's aftertimeskip attacks are named after the animals on rusukaina? since a red hawk was shown to live there

 

[jamarTheDem]

Tbh if I had to say Luffy and Dolfamingo could actually be evenly matched . From Haki ability , to fight skills and devil fruit ability . When Dolfamingo used Bellamy as a shield Luffy couldn't get mad I seen countless times he used pirates and marines as shields . It's like if Luffy could use clones they would be a spitting image . Mentality wise they are slightly different but the way they care for their crews Is different . Luffy has nine crew members right ? Well I'm pretty sure like Luffy Doflamingo only cares about his exclusives , remember most of these actual underlings could be from the Dressrosa kingdom . When Bellamy was talking about he want to be one of chosen few who gets to sail with Dolfamingo on his ship doesn't that mean that's only his trustworthy crew members could come along . I don't know if it cause they posses the King Haki but their leadership skills are naturally .

So I can't say whose going to win (I lie Luffy of course) but I can say Doflamingo isn't a pushover at all . He will draw out any abilities Luffy's been keeping the bag . Hopefully mean see Gear 4

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

Well we have seen him spit blood and make a not so happy face. He will probably comment on what a mistake they made to make him angry aaaaand cut to another fight . Storytellingwise I don't think DD should show any kind fighting impairment since it builds drama to eat one of luffy's most powerful attacks and then act like it didn't affect him at all even though it obviously did as we have seen.

I saw a theory somewhere that luffy's aftertimeskip attacks are named after the animals on rusukaina? since a red hawk was shown to live there

Coughing up blood is only natural after he got hit in the stomach, but I hope he will recover fast, and you know not fall to the ground. Red Hawk is what Luffy used against Hody right? Well I don't consider Hody to be strong, Zoro was stronger than him, DD should be able to take a hit like red hawk and not be too impaired from it. And yes it seems that Luffy's new attacks are based on animals from rusaikana, or animals in general, other than red hawk there's elephant gun, and grizzly magnum if I'm not mistaken.

 

[desin24]

Coughing up blood is only natural after he got hit in the stomach, but I hope he will recover fast, and you know not fall to the ground. Red Hawk is what Luffy used against Hody right? Well I don't consider Hody to be strong, Zoro was stronger than him, DD should be able to take a hit like red hawk and not be too impaired from it. And yes it seems that Luffy's new attacks are based on animals from rusaikana, or animals in general, other than red hawk there's elephant gun, and grizzly magnum if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah, I think everybody wants DD to shrug it off and say let the games begin. He definitely is leagues above Hody so the Red Hawk is in no way a near one hit like with Hody. It would be extremely disapointing to see this fight progres like the others of the NW and Oda knows this.
If you would have to give DD a powerlevel where would you see him?

 

[VAArmOOs]

Pretty strong!

 

[diavolo]

Hody was on steroids and luffy said he was pretty sturdy. so I think that red hawk has left some damage. DD is haki-wise above luffy I think but maybe Luffy will get better in this fight.

Nonetheless after this Ark maybe we will lose one good enemy for the SH crew. I did not see them fall so soon.
Big mom is next.

 

[desin24]

Hody was on steroids and luffy said he was pretty sturdy. so I think that red hawk has left some damage. DD is haki-wise above luffy I think but maybe Luffy will get better in this fight.

Nonetheless after this Ark maybe we will lose one good enemy for the SH crew. I did not see them fall so soon.
Big mom is next.

Hody was definitely quite sturdy since he was a fishman and on steroids. It's just that Red Hawk was then used as a flashy new technique to pretty much end it. Hody had to take more steroids to recover IIRC.
In this case the fight just got started and DD is the most hyped main arc villain as of yet so even though it may have left damage it will be insignificant.

Who knows if Big Mom even is next. Everything depends on the situation with the thousand sunny. May they coup de bursted away from her and sanji stayed behind to distract or they made peace, so many theories. We still have Zou as next destination where Law's crew is and where the Samurai wanted to initially go and they reacted to Kaido's name which might mean something too. There are just so many possibilities. We have the 7th shishibukai as possible villain and the cp0 it must not be a yonkou already.

 

[Sproumfch]

I think Doflamingo is strong wih his legs and that's why he could block Sanji's attack, but not that much with his fists (that's why Luffy was not punched that hard).
Let me explain :
Doffy always uses his fingers to control his strings. THey must not be broken and that's why he prefers his leg in order to block.

He also seems to have mastered the Combat Haki.

But I really don't think he is stronger that Luffy in term of physical strenght (as few would be).
We saw in Amazon Lily that a tought fist without Haki can break a Haki defense imbued. At last if that Haki is not strong.

But now, Luffy has Haki. So it will be his trendemous strenght against Doffy's Haki and defenses.
I really don't think that he can hurt Luffy that bad. Luffy should be too fast for a lot of people now. But maybe Oda restained this. We will see.

 

[desin24]

I think Doflamingo is strong wih his legs and that's why he could block Sanji's attack, but not that much with his fists (that's why Luffy was not punched that hard).
Let me explain :
Doffy always uses his fingers to control his strings. THey must not be broken and that's why he prefers his leg in order to block.

He also seems to have mastered the Combat Haki.

But I really don't think he is stronger that Luffy in term of physical strenght (as few would be).
We saw in Amazon Lily that a tought fist without Haki can break a Haki defense imbued. At last if that Haki is not strong.

But now, Luffy has Haki. So it will be his trendemous strenght against Doffy's Haki and defenses.
I really don't think that he can hurt Luffy that bad. Luffy should be too fast for a lot of people now. But maybe Oda restained this. We will see.

Nice observation abouz blocking with his legs so his fingers stay unbroken and unharmed.
Since Luffy is a purely physical combatant and he is a D he very probably has ebormous physical strentgh. Speedwise with Gear 2 and Soru he is definitely extremely fast. The thing is Observation Haki which can counteract that speed to a certain extent and Doflamingo's strings whih are extremely sharp. We saw what that D's over heat did to buildings that were a few miles away at point blank range they are definitely fatal even if lufy uses haki since DD can too.
One mistake from Luffy and he is done since DD can hurt Luffy very very bad with his strings. Physicaly he jumpef over Oars jr which is quite a feat too. I don't think Luffy has to be nerfed against somebody like DD

 

[Syphin]

Well given the build up of Doflamingo this arc and the antagonist shine that has been glossed over him so thickly over the course of the series, Oda definitely does seem to have set up this fight to become a truly immense one.

Law, while not directly taking on Doflamingo, will be completely relevant and key in Doflamingo's downfall. Unlike Luffy, Law knows Doflamingo really well and what he is capable of. Luffy alone may not stand a good chance given the deadliness of Doflamingo when his opponent is unprepared for what he dishes out, but now with Law alongside Luffy, the advantage of surprise Doflamingo had over Luffy is diminished. The fact that Law knows exactly what Doflamingo is capable of doing will benefit the Straw Hats and prevent from happening what happened to the Donquixote Pirates when they grossly underestimated the Straw Hat Pirates.

Anyway, Doflamingo is a powerful opponent, and just as Law did in the latest chapter, more of Doflamingo's weaknesses will need to be exploited in order for Luffy to reign victorious. And for that reason, I am looking forward to seeing Law take advantage of Doflamingo's overconfidence more and ultimately allow Luffy opportunities to land hits on Doflamingo.

 

[S-H-I-G-U-R-E]

I believe Doflamingo has only one real advantage over Luffy (aside from being a cunning asshole), and that advantage is his fruit: The Ito Ito no Mi is an incredibly versatile fruit, and Doflamingo trained it to the extremes. Haki-wise, I would say Luffy and DD are about the same level, but unless Luffy shows us something new (like a new Gear or something) I doubt he could overcome DD's hax Devil Fruit. Unless Law keeps on helping, of course.

P.S. I want to see a Gear 4th so badly! XDDD

 

[jamarTheDem]

Doflamingo needs to go all out ,

Luffy needs to go all out .

THEN we'll have a good calculation .

Doflamingo only showed three abilities that actually stood out .

How do we know Bird Cage isn't sucking up Jokers DF ?

So it's impossible to join unless you uses , Fighting Skills/Haki/DF abilities .

Which we can't even join yet .

 

[catagon87]

Really, really strong. I imagine the fight is going to be drawn out a bit. I can foresee Luffy needing to overcome himself in this fight a bit as he lets his temper get the best of him often and Doflamingo is one of the few opponents that knows exactly how to tilt that into his favor (usually it seems to of benefit Luffy when he loses his cool. Not so much here).

I'm hoping for some form of badass Luffy surpassing scene. I guess in my mind I picture Luffy grabbing Doffy's strings with his bare hands and breaking them. Doubt it will be that but it'd be really cool.

We are dealing with a seriously screwed up enemy too. I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in the fight he started using his Bird Cage strings to start killing innocent civilians.

 

[FetherMan]

He's strong enough to survive "Red Hawk" head on by Monkey D. Luffy. That's how strong that mofo is.

 

[DutchPhoenix]

He's strong enough to survive "Red Hawk" head on by Monkey D. Luffy. That's how strong that mofo is.

so as strong as hodi?

 

[-Ken-]

This fight is going to take forever to finish. None of Luffy crewmate finished their fight yet. Heck, not even all of them have even started the fight.

 

[desin24]

This fight is going to take forever to finish. None of Luffy crewmate finished their fight yet. Heck, not even all of them have even started the fight.

Would you prefer a fight like luvvy vs lucci where he had bits in every chapter but had the chapters show the bustercall or just have all of it at the end of the other fights?

---------- Post added at 01:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:13 PM ----------

I believe Doflamingo has only one real advantage over Luffy (aside from being a cunning asshole), and that advantage is his fruit: The Ito Ito no Mi is an incredibly versatile fruit, and Doflamingo trained it to the extremes. Haki-wise, I would say Luffy and DD are about the same level, but unless Luffy shows us something new (like a new Gear or something) I doubt he could overcome DD's hax Devil Fruit. Unless Law keeps on helping, of course.

P.S. I want to see a Gear 4th so badly! XDDD

In versatility DD rivals luffy which is an amazing feat.

The great thing about gear 2 and 3 are that they can be explained with physics kinda and show luffy's battle genius. I can't imagine what else could be used as gear 4th?

---------- Post added at 01:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:17 PM ----------

Really, really strong. I imagine the fight is going to be drawn out a bit. I can foresee Luffy needing to overcome himself in this fight a bit as he lets his temper get the best of him often and Doflamingo is one of the few opponents that knows exactly how to tilt that into his favor (usually it seems to of benefit Luffy when he loses his cool. Not so much here).

I'm hoping for some form of badass Luffy surpassing scene. I guess in my mind I picture Luffy grabbing Doffy's strings with his bare hands and breaking them. Doubt it will be that but it'd be really cool.

We are dealing with a seriously screwed up enemy too. I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in the fight he started using his Bird Cage strings to start killing innocent civilians.

Maybe luffy uses his CoC Haki. Shanks damaged Whitebeards ship with his sheer presence. Maybe we see luffy escaping DD's net through a wave of CoC?

DD could enrage luffy by telling him that people kill their families ever since the birdcage started and luffy is just waisting time or something similar true villain style