He said that along knov, and hours later they were shitting their pants because of how abysmal the difference between them and Pitou was.
What feats are you using to say Hisoka is in the TOP of nen users? Wins over kastro and gotoh? lol
He seems like a child compared to Netero's aura and hatsu caliber.
An old man who is less than 50% capable of what he was in his prime searching for a challenge his whole life didn't even look at him. That's how menacing he is to someone on the top
That saying from Morel is totally way misinterpreted by most people. He says you should approach a battle as if you're going to win 100% because going into a fight acting scared is just going to get yourself killed even sooner. It's not like Morel doesn't know Pufu or Yupi greatly outclasses him and that he has very little chance of defeating them. He's just not going to let these negative emotions get in the way because that'd further reduce whatever little chance he had of winning at all. It doesn't mean if you act like you're invincible then you'll totally win all your fights too, or that if you pretend the odds aren't what they appear to be then they don't matter.
I think part of the problem with HXH is that due to a lack of anything resembling consistent power level and relatively inaction from the top users it's actually pretty hard to tell how strong anyone is. Throughout most of HXH we pretty much only see guys in Gon's generation (teens) and Hisoka's generations (20s) doing significant fighting. The 30s and older guys participated very little until the Ants arc so we have nothing to gauge what their power is, and against the backdrop of the Ants, anybody looks quite ordinary so it's easy to say even the top users don't look like they can do much. There's also the notion that the Hunters, as an organization, likely has grown fat from all the years of their utter dominance in the world. Biscuit looks like quite strong for a Hunter, and she ran away from Palm when Palm threatened to kill her. And if she ran away from a threat from Palm, why would she ever agree for a fight to the death against someone like Hisoka? I think most of the top Hunters simply lost their edge due to their cushy job and worldwide level fame that they'd indeed be scared to risk all that glory in a fight to the death against a relatively unknown guy like Hisoka (amongst Hunters about all he is known for is being a murderer, so certainly he's not considered renowned amongst Hunters).
That saying from Morel is totally way misinterpreted by most people. He says you should approach a battle as if you're going to win 100% because going into a fight acting scared is just going to get yourself killed even sooner.
Then he contradicts himself, because there is a lot of scenarios where you don't have a freaking chance of doing something. "nothing is setled" isn't 100% true after all. Someone who is going to stomp you, just stomp you, it doesn't matter your mental state.
I think the whole palm situation where just funny scenes from Togashi. Palm is just a psycho, she can't fight IMO(before ant-palm). His ability is something unique like Lovely ghostwriter, she's way below compared to Biscuit
But you are right, it's super hard to stablish power levels in the HxH world, but we have seem people who are a lot of tiers ahead of the main/usual characters
Really, saying that Razor has more physical strength than Number 13 doesn't make sense. They are pure Aura, that's what they represent. Yes, having high physical strength is good, but simple physical strength is nothing compared to Aura, nothing at all, it's like saying that Netero's base striking strength is superior to that of his Hyakushiki Kannon. Even with a little Aura a physical attack becomes several times stronger, you can easily kill someone with his nodes closed, that's why hitting areas uncovered by Aura is so important. Razor's physical strength can't possibly rival that of Number 13.
Gon, albeit with his 13 years old body had more raw power(by this I mean Aura + striking strength) than Razor with his last Rock, does it mean that he is physically stronger? No way. His Aura was so powerful he overcame it. So, saying that Razor is evidently physically stronger and has more Aura volume because of this is not enough, and this is not all that matters in a fight. Hisoka also managed to repel his last throw despite his 2 broken fingers so this shows that their raw power can't be as different as you claim.
Guys, i just want to emphasize my opinion about Hisoka's power, seeing it is in discussion. As we all know Hisoka has just killed "weak" characters, and a comparison between him and razon, at least to me, cannot be done because they interacted only in the context of a game with rules set by someone who's specially good in those conditions. And i argue that his lost against Chrollo was only because the last had planned veeery ahead, and even had to upgrade his abilities; to me that's and indicator that he recognices Hisoka as stronger: "I cant win without a perfect strategy and a perfect scenario". You can disagree with the last statement, but at least it must mean that Hisoka would have done muuuuuch more than he showed then, so it is still not a good scenario to calculate Hisoka's power.
I say all of this because i think that Togashi is going to show us RIGHT NOW, in his frenzy against the whole spider, the real and full extent of Hisoka's power and wits. Now he will secure his advantage, he wont let the enemy decide the best scenario. So i think we should wait before putting Hisoka any category or ranking of nen users. I should say, anyway, that he probably is on Illumi's level and also slightly above your regular zodiac.
I agree with that, but it only implies that he is stronger because of Chrollo's mentality, he did admit that he never used so many abilities to kill someone before so that's another praise. He and Chrollo have a similar level and I am pretty sure he could have beaten Hisoka without this plan, he just didn't want to take risks.
I believe Hisoka is stronger, but I could be wrong.
Then he contradicts himself, because there is a lot of scenarios where you don't have a freaking chance of doing something. "nothing is setled" isn't 100% true after all. Someone who is going to stomp you, just stomp you, it doesn't matter your mental state.
I think the whole palm situation where just funny scenes from Togashi. Palm is just a psycho, she can't fight IMO(before ant-palm). His ability is something unique like Lovely ghostwriter, she's way below compared to Biscuit
But you are right, it's super hard to stablish power levels in the HxH world, but we have seem people who are a lot of tiers ahead of the main/usual characters
He says to fight as if you're going to win because crying about power levels isn't going to save you. He knew he started the palace attack in a very diminished state (about 30% compared to his norm) but he never complained about it. Surely he knew Yupi was going to kill him even if he went bankrupt because Morel was completely spent in the fight, but that didn't stop him from carrying out his mission. His point is that your resolve should be as unwavering as if you have 100% chance to win even if you know the truth is otherwise because nobody is going to bail you out in a fight to the death. However it seems like the popular interpretation is that nothing is settled before combat because you never know when Togashi will bail you out even if your chance to win is 0%. Of course, that works well if your name is Gon or Hisoka, but it should not be assumed as a universal truth even for those two let alone any generic hypothetical situation.
Biscuit's case is obvious meant to be funny but I think it highlights the general weakness of Hunters. I get the feeling that most of them are unwilling to risk their life in a fight against a nobody even if they're heavily favored, because they care about their fame/fortune/ideals too much and too little for everything else. That's probably human nature, but on the other hand the Hunters are supposed to be the protector of all that is good, so it's quite shameful too. When Hisoka and Ilumi was killing the random Hunters in the Election Arc, not a single Hunter stepped up and say 'we need to kill the murderer that just killed Teradin'. Surely it's not because Ging or the Zodiac are afraid of how powerful they are, but that they just don't care about others (Morel flat out calls the guys who died weak) and that they aren't willing to put their life on the line for something as trivial as justice.
I say all of this because i think that Togashi is going to show us RIGHT NOW, in his frenzy against the whole spider, the real and full extent of Hisoka's power and wits. Now he will secure his advantage, he wont let the enemy decide the best scenario. So i think we should wait before putting Hisoka any category or ranking of nen users. I should say, anyway, that he probably is on Illumi's level and also slightly above your regular zodiac.
People way overrate Spiders. Spiders are said to be a group of people even an experienced Hunter doesn't go after. Well, that's because there are 13 Spiders and we know strong Hunters operate in very small units if not solo. So yeah, 1 on 13 is going to be pretty hard for even the strongest Hunter. Back in the Yorknew arc, after Kurapika captured Chrollo, Nobunaga told everyone to wait for reinforcements because the Chain Assassin had a 'Pro level Hunter ally' and this conclusion was readily accepted by the group and the reinforcements themselves. Now, this is a guy who thinks Kurapika killed Ubogin with dirty tricks, so let's be generous and say he considers Kurapika equal to a Spider, so we get:
Kurapika (1 Spider) + pro level Hunter versus 5 Spiders (Kuratopi, Nobunaga, Shizuku, Pakunoda, Machi).
So from this, we get that Nobunaga thinks pro level Hunter = 4 Spiders. Okay 2 of them were hurt, and they also have to watch 2 hostages, so let's call that 3 Spiders. Well, Hisoka is certainly > pro level Hunter. So the fact that he completely bulldozed 3 Spiders is actually quite consistent. Now I know people are going to say how on earth can the average pro level Hunter beat 3 Spiders? Well, feel free to ask Nobunaga and the rest of the Spiders why they immediately agreed that it's too dangerous to chase after Kurapika with only 5 Spiders just because he has a pro level Hunter ally. So the fact that Hisoka isn't necessarily top tier amongst Hunters has no effect on whether he can dominate Spiders, because an average Hunter is supposed to be much stronger than an average Spider. In the Hunter Exam, Kurapika's opponent claims he's one of the 4 legendary Spiders, and he's also obviously a prisoner captured by a Hunter. While of course that guy was a con artist, the fact that he makes such a lie means in the world of HXH it is reasonable for this kind of outcome to occur, or the lie would have been completely pointless.
But you're calculating under the assumption that all spiders have equal power. That's wrong i think. To me was very clear from the beginning that the likes of Shizuku, Shalnark, Kurotopi and Pakunoda were a lot weaker in terms of combat ability. They have incredibly useful abilities for stealing and intelligence, and that's their value for the spider, not their strength. Anyway, they're highly capable nen users. The tanks of the troupe, in terms of strength and destructive power, are Phinks, Feitang, Uvogin, and maybe Franklin. The overrating occurs over certain members of the troupe, or when you consider them all equally strong. I would emphasize that feitang is really, really dangerous.
But you're calculating under the assumption that all spiders have equal power. That's wrong i think. To me was very clear from the beginning that the likes of Shizuku, Shalnark, Kurotopi and Pakunoda were a lot weaker in terms of combat ability. They have incredibly useful abilities for stealing and intelligence, and that's their value for the spider, not their strength. Anyway, they're highly capable nen users. The tanks of the troupe, in terms of strength and destructive power, are Phinks, Feitang, Uvogin, and maybe Franklin. The overrating occurs over certain members of the troupe, or when you consider them all equally strong. I would emphasize that feitang is really, really dangerous.
If anything, it should be that teamwork with powerful support abilities that makes them powerful. That is, if 1 Ubogin can defeat X, then 3 Ubogins can only defeat 3X because their abilities would not synergize in any meaningful way. With the 5 Spiders present, there is a solid mix of fighters and support abilities, and maybe it's not the ideal mix of powers (the crew they had likely leaned heavier on the support side), I sure don't see why those 5 Spiders should be considered below the strength of an average Spider X 5. When the group had its own internal split, after Nobunaga was knocked out by Shizuku, Machi and Kuratopi was still willing to make a stand against Phinx and Feitan, and then Franklin stepped in and Phinx backed off and agree to let Pakunoda go. From this we can infer that Machi and Kuratopi at least believe they can hold Phinx and Feitan off, and even though the two is almost certainly weaker at combat, if they just add Franklin to their side that tilts the favor back. After all, Franklin then asked why Phinx didn't go after Pakunoda and Phinx said that if he did Franklin would just stop him, so we get that it is not the case any particular member not counting Hisoka/Chrollo can go 1on2 outside of contrived cases (e.g. a fighter vs Pakunoda + Shizuku). Just because a lot of Spiders have support abilities doesn't mean they're somehow weak compared to the combat oriented members.
If anything, it should be that teamwork with powerful support abilities that makes them powerful. That is, if 1 Ubogin can defeat X, then 3 Ubogins can only defeat 3X because their abilities would not synergize in any meaningful way. With the 5 Spiders present, there is a solid mix of fighters and support abilities, and maybe it's not the ideal mix of powers (the crew they had likely leaned heavier on the support side), I sure don't see why those 5 Spiders should be considered below the strength of an average Spider X 5. When the group had its own internal split, after Nobunaga was knocked out by Shizuku, Machi and Kuratopi was still willing to make a stand against Phinx and Feitan, and then Franklin stepped in and Phinx backed off and agree to let Pakunoda go. From this we can infer that Machi and Kuratopi at least believe they can hold Phinx and Feitan off, and even though the two is almost certainly weaker at combat, if they just add Franklin to their side that tilts the favor back. After all, Franklin then asked why Phinx didn't go after Pakunoda and Phinx said that if he did Franklin would just stop him, so we get that it is not the case any particular member not counting Hisoka/Chrollo can go 1on2 outside of contrived cases (e.g. a fighter vs Pakunoda + Shizuku). Just because a lot of Spiders have support abilities doesn't mean they're somehow weak compared to the combat oriented members.
The situation you're referring to doesn't prove anything at all about the powers of the spiders. It's been shown many times in HxH that you can confront stronger enemies without much problem, even more when you have an specific goal, like restraining. Actual combat is decent evidence. Shizuku had problems with a regular ant, Shalnark too, Kalluto felt overhwelmed by other members strength, pakunoda is surely a capable fighter but she just read minds, etc. All those things, and other ones, prove that members have different levels of power/combat ability. Would you use Uvogin as an intelligence gatherer? Would you send shalnark to perform and strength based task? Clearly no. It must be remembered also, that being a great nen user doesn't necessarily equals being a great fighter. In that sense, yes, the spider, considered in a homogeneous fashion, is overrated in terms of power.
I also would add that there is a much deep reason why hunters, and the hunter association also, don't mess with the troupe, and that's their connection with meteor city, wich is starting to appear as a much more complicated and pivotal issue in the story. You know the "We accept everything, so dont take anything from us" stuff and how dangerous it can be. And it seems that the troupe is their finest exportation to civilization.
Hisoka is a great combatant and a very skilled nen user and that's about it. He's not actually shown to be a powerful character as I tend to observe people make him out to be, the same can be said to Kuroro. They both win by smarts, if they take atleast one shot from razor or uvon or silva they're dead. But a match up between any of them is to be considered 50/50 because of combat wisdom. They have different styles so it could go either way depending on the circumstances, that's why it was important for kuroro to choose the heavens arena because it was highly advantageous for him and we all know hisoka is smart as hell he prolly didn't care as long as he could fight, prolly thought he could outsmart his way out of the fight too since he's overly confident with himself. He also had good use of psychology during the fight with silva and zeno because he knew his ability would make his attackers wary of him.
So in short they're both the poster boys of HxH fighters, win by smarts and not by brawns alone.
I'd say tho that hisoka is one of the physically strongest nenusers we know.
He is close to enhancement and when he has to, he can counter physically.
For example, when he was able to reflect the ball in the dodgeball game against razor, that showed his immense strength.
Or the human sledgehammer.
The armwrestle contest with the spider also showed him as one of the physically strongest.
Hisoka simply chooses to rely on tricks which amuse him most of the time.
But if hisoka was to duke it out with an enhancemen tuser in a fistfight, i'd be confident in him holding his own quite well.
I must disagree shio, Hisoka might be listed as 3rd strongest in the Ryodans in terms of physical strength that doesn't mean he is near Uvon's level, that goes for phinx as well.
None of them can catch a bullet without nen enhancement, that speaks levels of Uvons physical superiority. They are both 3rd and 2nd because there was nobody else, now if Silva was a part of ryodan then he'd be 2nd... even illumi or Zeno is far superior in physical str IMO because of his training regimen but that's just speculation.
I must disagree shio, Hisoka might be listed as 3rd strongest in the Ryodans in terms of physical strength that doesn't mean he is near Uvon's level, that goes for phinx as well.
None of them can catch a bullet without nen enhancement, that speaks levels of Uvons physical superiority. They are both 3rd and 2nd because there was nobody else, now if Silva was a part of ryodan then he'd be 2nd... even illumi or Zeno is far superior in physical str IMO because of his training regimen but that's just speculation.
Not saying he is as strong as ubo, but one of the strongest we know.
He is stronger than the enhancer nobunaga, at least. I wouldnt say he is much weaker than phinks.
Emitters and transmuters can get insanely strong.
Razor and Biske would be examples of that, i bet those two could hold their own in a physical fight against uborgin.
Not by pure muscle power, but still in a rather raw fist to fist match.
I don't think Hisoka could do that, but he could give most enhancers a run for their money.
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