Discussion Hunter x Hunter = Naruto

[Phantron]

Bisuke and Tsunade aren't just women with mega strength. They're both old but hide their appearance to make themselves look younger. That's a little TOO specific xD

But yeah, I know what you mean.

Because people sure don't want to look younger in a world that allows you to easily pull it off?

One of the biggest selling point of aura is that it allows you to shave about 10 to 20 years off your apparent age (Netero looks a lot older when he used up all his aura), and of course when you have people working on nijitsus that makes you live forever or bring back the dead, you'd naturally assume people would also do stuff that makes them look younger too.

You migh as well say anyone who wishes to live forever copied from Dragonball because clearly nobody else would ever have that as a primary motivation in fiction otherwise.

 

[leiatte]

Yeah, hunterXHunter come out before naruto, and their story more thrilling and More dramatic than Naruto, when newbie manga readers will love naruto, But anyone who have manny manga will thing Naruto story not developing very well
I like Naruto, But i prefer read HXH than Naruto, Thats my opinion..

---------- Post added at 09:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 AM ----------



Nay, u read GINTAMA? why u so serius dude, just admit it.
NARUTO just thrilling for elementary manga fans, the story just to easy to predict, and that "Power of Friendship" of Naruto just to much for fellow manga fans
anyone who think Naruto was master piece thats True, but that view of Manga FANS, not Manga Reader, they just dont know any other manga thats good
Naruto fans is just PLAIN FANS, they like thats another people like, they just dont have their own TASTE

Please, can you be quiet, geez. I have read plenty of manga, and I'm still a fan of Naruto. Get over yourself, yeah Im not criticizing your taste but stop trying to dictate other peoples taste. If they like Naruto, they may have their own reasons to enjoy it, I like it because of its story can be really intense and it has a sense of seriousness, I also like the characters, especially the goofy ones like Rock Lee, and i like how his personality contrasts against someone like Gaara and Sasuke.

I have read plenty of manga, and I may not be caught up in Hunter X Hunter (following the new anime), but I did that on purpose because of Togashi's constant Hiatus'.

P.S. also I love Yu Yu Hakusho, but Hunter X Hunter has had more time to be crafted with care, while Naruto has been moving on schedule, I even thing Kishi should take a break to help craft his story, so It can be the best it can be.

But for you to try and tell the fans that they don't have their own taste, just think that their is a reason it sells as much as it does, even if they're are other people who are just caught up in the hype, there are fans who genuinely like the series, hell I still love it, the pain arc was amazing to me.

P.S. whats wrong with liking Gintama, I haven't read/watched it yet but I'm interested in it and I will check it out later. People have different tastes, and I respect your opinion, but Im kind of getting angry reading your comment.

 

[GingFuriksu]

Because people sure don't want to look younger in a world that allows you to easily pull it off?

One of the biggest selling point of aura is that it allows you to shave about 10 to 20 years off your apparent age (Netero looks a lot older when he used up all his aura), and of course when you have people working on nijitsus that makes you live forever or bring back the dead, you'd naturally assume people would also do stuff that makes them look younger too.

You migh as well say anyone who wishes to live forever copied from Dragonball because clearly nobody else would ever have that as a primary motivation in fiction otherwise.

Its just a coincidence that they're both BEAST, but look far younger and both grow old when they use their power. Netero doesn't look younger because he used the same technique as Bisuke. If you practice your Ten a lot, your aging slows down. Also, in the Naruto world if everyone wanted to look young or w/e like you said, why is Tsunade the only one with that ability... lol

 

[Phantron]

I always find it rather ironic that HXH has been more or less toe to toe with Naruto in terms of volume sales but if you like Naruto you're just one of the unwashed masses while if you like HXH you're super special. I guess that might be true outside of Asia but in Asia, HXH is pretty much the masses, and if not for the ridiculous hiatus HXH should be ahead of Naruto in sales. The biggest Chinese site for manga is called GreedLand.

I don't even like Naruto, but HXH is not any less mainstream than Naruto in its country of origin. The 'XYZ stole from HXH' seems to assume HXH has a trademark on stuff like "Hero with a dark past" or "Magical energy that empowers you" or "Fights that require a brain" or "Charactere slightly more in depth than 1D" and similar stuff (and of course the real hardcore guys claimed Jojo's Adventures trademarked "Fights that require a brain"). Beyond the fact that you can't copyright say the elemental chakra system because the 5 elements existed way before Togashi was even born, Naruto uses the elemental system in such a haphazard way that it's basically meaningless (wind beats lighting, except when lightning beats wind). And if you say 'wel that's because Naruto stole the system poorly' I'd point out the Ant arc where the schools of aura become completely meaningless because every Royal Guard surpasses the highest level any human can achieve even in their weakest schools (Pitou's worst school is Reinforcement, but his normal physical strength is stronger than any human's normal physical strength).

---------- Post added at 01:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 AM ----------

Its just a coincidence that they're both BEAST, but look far younger and both grow old when they use their power. Netero doesn't look younger because he used the same technique as Bisuke. If you practice your Ten a lot, your aging slows down. Also, in the Naruto world if everyone wanted to look young or w/e like you said, why is Tsunade the only one with that ability... lol

Tsunade is directly based on the main characters from Tengai Makyou (Jiraiya, Tsunade, and Orochimaru) who also possesses unbelievable strength in the game. This game is on an obscure platform about 20 years ago, but clearly Togashi has 'girl with unbelieveable strength' copyrighted so a game that existed long before HXH started serialization must have stole that from HXH.

Tsunade's physique does not change as a result of her technique, while Biscuit's physique does. In the real world we have people trying all kinds of crazy stuff to look young and whatnot, but apparently if you tried that in a fictional universe where you can do nijitsus you obviously stole that from HXH. Biscuit's ability is basically just really advanced plastic surgery, while Tsunade's ability reverses aging, at least temporarily. If you want to say 'Naruto stole from HXH', Tsunade has more in common with Uber Gon as both of their ability temporarily affects aging itself to achieve the desired effect, while Biscuit's effect has absolutely no effect on aging. It's just a really awesome set of plastic surgery that can make you look as young as you want but her physical body is always at her real age, as shown when the guy with scissors analyzed Biscuit's hair.

 

[GingFuriksu]

I always find it rather ironic that HXH has been more or less toe to toe with Naruto in terms of volume sales but if you like Naruto you're just one of the unwashed masses while if you like HXH you're super special. I guess that might be true outside of Asia but in Asia, HXH is pretty much the masses, and if not for the ridiculous hiatus HXH should be ahead of Naruto in sales. The biggest Chinese site for manga is called GreedLand.

I don't even like Naruto, but HXH is not any less mainstream than Naruto in its country of origin. The 'XYZ stole from HXH' seems to assume HXH has a trademark on stuff like "Hero with a dark past" or "Magical energy that empowers you" or "Fights that require a brain" or "Charactere slightly more in depth than 1D" and similar stuff (and of course the real hardcore guys claimed Jojo's Adventures trademarked "Fights that require a brain"). Beyond the fact that you can't copyright say the elemental chakra system because the 5 elements existed way before Togashi was even born, Naruto uses the elemental system in such a haphazard way that it's basically meaningless (wind beats lighting, except when lightning beats wind). And if you say 'wel that's because Naruto stole the system poorly' I'd point out the Ant arc where the schools of aura become completely meaningless because every Royal Guard surpasses the highest level any human can achieve even in their weakest schools (Pitou's worst school is Reinforcement, but his normal physical strength is stronger than any human's normal physical strength).

---------- Post added at 01:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 AM ----------



Tsunade is directly based on the main characters from Tengai Makyou (Jiraiya, Tsunade, and Orochimaru) who also possesses unbelievable strength in the game. This game is on an obscure platform about 20 years ago, but clearly Togashi has 'girl with unbelieveable strength' copyrighted so a game that existed long before HXH started serialization must have stole that from HXH.

Tsunade's physique is roughly the same, only her apparent age. Biscuit's physique is not. In the real world we have people trying all kinds of crazy stuff to look young and whatnot, but apparently if you tried that in a fictional universe where you can do nijitsus you obviously stole that from HXH. Biscuit's ability is basically just really advanced plastic surgery, while Tsunade's ability reverses aging, at least temporarily.

You should have just wrote it was from a game in the first place -_-

 

[Uriel]

LOL at this point of the thread I've to confess that I read everything that cross my eye. Not only manga, but every book I can. Believe me, all what we think is original is just a remix of something else. And that something else is also a remix of something older.

I like Naruto. I read it before HxH and when I found HxH I just couldn't even dare to say that they were similar. Probably because the story is driven differently and the elements (That are almost in every manga) were handled differently as well.

 

[Phantron]

LOL at this point of the thread I've to confess that I read everything that cross my eye. Not only manga, but every book I can. Believe me, all what we think is original is just a remix of something else. And that something else is also a remix of something older.

I like Naruto. I read it before HxH and when I found HxH I just couldn't even dare to say that they were similar. Probably because the story is driven differently and the elements (That are almost in every manga) were handled differently as well.

The exam is a pretty blatant ripoff from HXH but beyond that, Naruto is so genericly shonen it wouldn't even be a very good idea to steal wholesale from HXH even if it was possible. And the exam itself is probably just a variant of the 'main character(s) find out they're still nothing compared to the powerhouse characters of the world' arc.

I remember seeing people say One Piece's new combat system rips off of HXH, and other than the both systems are powered by mysterious life energy there's literally nothing similar to these two. HXH's aura is basically the combat system. OP's system is literally magic sauce to deal with out of control fruit abilities, as prior to its introduction you might as well just roll over and die if you fight someone with an elemental fruit power if you don't happen to possess a similar caliber ability.

 

[leiatte]

Phantron, I don't see how the Chuunin exams are a rip off of Hunter X Hunter, inspired by it maybe, but they seem really different to me, The most similar is probably the forest of death, but I can see how different they are.

i agree with Uriel, I don't see Naruto as a generic shounen manga either, Naruto himself does say some generic things from time to time, but the manga as a whole isn't generic at all.

 

[Phantron]

Phantron, I don't see how the Chuunin exams are a rip off of Hunter X Hunter, inspired by it maybe, but they seem really different to me, The most similar is probably the forest of death, but I can see how different they are.

i agree with Uriel, I don't see Naruto as a generic shounen manga either, Naruto himself does say some generic things from time to time, but the manga as a whole isn't generic at all.

The exam is a ripoff because of the first round. While HXH doesn't have a monopoly on the concept of exam, you really would expect any exam to more or less involve being better at beating people/throwing fireballs/whatever. The oral exam of the Chuunin test is very unlike the typical Shonen (and unlike rest of the Naruto) in that it's something that could've conceiveably stomped characters who are extremely strong (e.g. Garaa), the same way Hisoka could not have passed the exam that requires you making sushi. The exam beyond that point is just your generic survival/fighting stuff which HXH definitely has no monopoly on. It's a test on the ability to observe which is rarely done in the Shonen, and it's a reasonable genuine effort at that, not 'the author told me about these things that nobody could possibly know so I magically observe them', like anything that deals with the 'smart' guys in Naruto.

But the sushi round was a good idea in HXH and its variant in Naruto is still reasonably clever so there's no particular reason why this is a bad thing.

 

[Tombadgerlock]

You might as well say Meryem is a copy of Perfect Cell. At least they actually look alike.

Meyrem/Cell was SHOWN by the author, and it went in a totally different direction once the hommage was made.

Outside of the obvious copying of the Hunter Exam, there's really not much copying either way just because Togashi's work ethics makes it pretty much impossible for anyone to copy from HXH once you start hitting the GI arc. "Woman with mega strength" is a relatively common subtype and that's about the only thing Biscuit has in common wiht Tsunade.

Biscuit is a Healer with beast strength that hides her age and mentors our heroes. Moreover, in her introduction arc Tsunade was described as sometimes using loli appearances.

Anyway, yes, Togashi took Biscuit/G.I in directions that made it impossible to copy him. However, that doesn't change the fact that Kishimoto, for a couple of years, was constantly copying Togashi's manga, but just "one week later".

Of course, he isn't the only one (see Ichigo's "true attack" that went out a few weeks after Gon's sacrifice against Pitou).

 

[Yuyunarutoballz]

I didn't know Biscuit was secretly an old lady but thanks for the heads up anyway guys -___-
Anywaaaay:

One of the big reasons for Togashi making the G.I arc was because Kishimoto kept copying his work and so he went out of his way to do something completely different.

Anyway:
Kurapika has eyes that make him able to do any techniques, and he wants revenge on someone who killed his whole clan and possess a technique to steal other techniques. (Itachi = Kuroro)

Hisoka's whole goal in being a G.R was to fight Kuroro and he then became a semi-mentor for Kurapika during the Y.S arc. (Hisoka = Orochimaru). His intro and the whole forest scene are very similar to Orochimaru's intro too.

I don't have to talk about how Biscuit was flat out copied by Tsunade i hope.

Anyway, Togashi's hiatus as well as G.I and so on meant that Kishomoto had to stop his week-by-week copy of HxH (he was also getting dissed a lot by the japanese public for it), so later on the similarities get rarer, though they do resurface every so often.

Really? REALLY?! How ignorant can you get? You know why Togashi made the Greed Island arc? Because Togashi is a notorious huge RPG fan, to be more exact a huge Dragon Quest fan. His love for video games drove him to incorporate it into his manga series. He didn't go "OHMAHGAWD, Stop copying me Kishimoto!!! Ughhh, this is so annoying. Oh! I know! I'll make a Video Game arc that's impossible for Kishimoto to incorporate into his NARUTO series!! That'll teach him!!!" No. Plus, if Kishimoto REALLY wanted too, a Video Game arc wouldn't stop him from copying it (not saying he ever copied anything in the first place) it's a ninja world full of magic, jutsu, and special skills. Itachi could put Naruto and the gang into a Genjutsu that is similar to Greed Island. Naruto and the gang could stumble upon an ancient video game platform that snatches them into the game. There are plenty of ways Kishimoto could go with in the story if he wanted to do something like Greed Island, so stop being ignorant and trying to elevate HxH to some God like heights and pushing Naruto down to some irrelevant heights in the process. Also, yeah, because in a media where you draw your story and anything can happen, special powers like a change in eye color and wanting revenge for murdered family are TOTALLY original and have NEVER been done before. Your argument is invalid

Phantron, I don't see how the Chuunin exams are a rip off of Hunter X Hunter, inspired by it maybe, but they seem really different to me, The most similar is probably the forest of death, but I can see how different they are.

i agree with Uriel, I don't see Naruto as a generic shounen manga either, Naruto himself does say some generic things from time to time, but the manga as a whole isn't generic at all.

Yeah, hunterXHunter come out before naruto, and their story more thrilling and More dramatic than Naruto, when newbie manga readers will love naruto, But anyone who have manny manga will thing Naruto story not developing very well
I like Naruto, But i prefer read HXH than Naruto, Thats my opinion..

---------- Post added at 09:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 AM ----------



Nay, u read GINTAMA? why u so serius dude, just admit it.
NARUTO just thrilling for elementary manga fans, the story just to easy to predict, and that "Power of Friendship" of Naruto just to much for fellow manga fans
anyone who think Naruto was master piece thats True, but that view of Manga FANS, not Manga Reader, they just dont know any other manga thats good
Naruto fans is just PLAIN FANS, they like thats another people like, they just dont have their own TASTE

Okay, this one seems more stupid to me than ignorant. Naruto is for newbie manga readers? HxH is for people who have read manyy manga? Hmm, that's funny, because last time i checked manga was restricted to how long you've been a fan or how many different series you have read. That's like saying "Ohhh, Harry Potter is for newbie fantasy readers! Lord Of The Rings is for people who are experienced!!!" Plus, should you really brag about having seen many many series and wear the honor like a badge? I'm a busy guy but Anime is only a hobby for me, i prefer it to the smut on TV so due to that i've seen a large quality of anime. Too dedicate your whole life to anime though and then proclaim your better than other individuals or are in a higher class than them just because you've seen more is ridiculous. If you claim Naruto is for "newbie" manga fans just because more people watch/read it than HxH, wouldn't that mean that Naruto just have a more captivating and attention grabbing story since you classify it as "newbie" manga? Both Naruto and HxH are in JUMP, and guess what JUMP is? A magazine for pre-teen and teens. Therefore, it's target audience is kids, teens, and young adults. Too claim your some "veteran" anime watcher just because you might prefer HxH and some other person might prefer Naruto is insanity. JUMP as a whole pushes for lesson of "Friendship is power" and "Protect your friends" and "Never give up" Hell, look at Gon and Killua. So, in that respect i guess HxH is easy to predict too? I don't see how Naruto is for "plain fans." Like i said, i've seen plenty of anime. My favorites happen to be mainstream, number 1 being DBZ, number 2 being Naruto, and number 3 being Yu Yu Hakusho. Does that make me any less knowledgeable? No. I also enjoy Case Closed, School Rumble, Samurai Champloo, Welcome To The NHK, Magi, Jojo, Another, Berserk, Claymore, Higurashi, Kaiji, Oriemo, Prince Of Tennis, SKET Dance, the list goes on and on, but those are the ones of the top of my head. I guess i too am a "newbie" fan, or an "plain fan" since Naruto is one of my favorites.
Also, i LOOOOVE HxH, like, i really love it. It is my favorite ongoing shounen right now, but i do believe the Chinun Exams was more interesting than the Hunter Exams. People still claim its a rip off though? Gee, i guess Togashi copy righted Test Taking to prove your abilities in the entire manga and anime world. I'm a fighting junkie so i guess i enjoyed Chinun Exams more than Hunter Exams cause the fights in Chinun Exams were more kick ass, but they're still completely different. So much so that when i started watching Hunter x Hunter i didn't even THINK of the Chinun Exams till die hard butt hurt fans started pointing them out. Once again, THEY'RE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!


Okay, i'm done my rant. Now, i just want to say that i was in no way trying to put down Hunter x Hunter. As i stated it's my favorite ongoing shounen, i was just trying to make even playing ground and pointing out both sides to the coin. HxH is great. Togashi is great. Kishimoto is great. Naruto is great. I'm just sick and tired of people bashing and calling Naruto a copy. Why is it such a big deal in the first place? Are fans angry that Naruto is more popular world wide? I don't see where the beef is. There are a point and time where people called the creator of 666 Satan a rip off of Naruto. Uhhh, news flash. THEY'RE BOTH KISHIMOTO! They're Twins! They grew up under the same conditions, were inspired by the same stuff, etc. Of course they're going to be similar. Is it because Naruto's Kishimoto is more popular than people bashed on 666 Satan calling it a rip off? It was to the point where Naruto's Kishimoto had to tell the fans "stop" because his brother did not copy him. Likewise, 666 Satan fans say it's a much better series than Naruto. Fans of anything are just so stupid sometimes, i'm sorry. They always want the thing they want on top. Again, sorry for the rant but this is getting out of control.

 

[Phantron]

Tsunade has loli appearance because the original Tsunade in Tengai Makyou is a loli too. I find this argument about as ridiculous as if the main characters of Naruto are named Goku, Gohan, and Vegata and we're arguing whether Naruto stole these ideas of HXH. Just because you've never heard of the origin of Jiraiya/Tsuande/Orochimaru doesn't make the connection any less obvious.

Is HXH supposed to have a monopoly on 'self-sacrifice moves' now? If Bleach had 10 blank white pages I'd consider that a ripoff of HXH (that'd actually be pretty cool).

It'd be pretty darn trivial to copy GI in Naruto. The ninjas always have this ability to pull items out of nowhere (e.g. GAIN). It's a world that naturally has a lot of powerful artifacts (Itachi has quite a few of those), so they could always go to some random place that needs to collect a bunch of legendary artifacts. In fact the island Killerbee trained at fits the GI description rather well.

 

[Doraku]

The amount of biases on this thread is too damn high.

Yeah, hunterXHunter come out before naruto, and their story more thrilling and More dramatic than Naruto, when newbie manga readers will love naruto, But anyone who have manny manga will thing Naruto story not developing very well
I like Naruto, But i prefer read HXH than Naruto, Thats my opinion..

---------- Post added at 09:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 AM ----------



Nay, u read GINTAMA? why u so serius dude, just admit it.
NARUTO just thrilling for elementary manga fans, the story just to easy to predict, and that "Power of Friendship" of Naruto just to much for fellow manga fans
anyone who think Naruto was master piece thats True, but that view of Manga FANS, not Manga Reader, they just dont know any other manga thats good
Naruto fans is just PLAIN FANS, they like thats another people like, they just dont have their own TASTE

I found that your comment is bashing, rather than give us objective explanations why Hunter X Hunter is better than Naruto. Keep in mind that I'm not even a fan of Naruto, and I enjoy reading and watching HxH more than Naruto. Reading many manga might give you wider experiences on Manga, but that is not a threshold where you could judge manga objectively.

Naruto is predictable, sure, that might be true. But such predictability could be applied to Bleach. Or One Piece. or whatever mainstream Shounen manga out there. I have seen that many Naruto fans are not even close as the way you describe it. They think that Naruto is a masterpiece, sure, but they also think that another Manga deserves to be called as Masterpiece. You're mistakenly choose the word "fans" instead of "blind fanboyism" here, and I hope you could understand that. Also, people don't have to be agree with your opinion. Any manga could be shit to someone but masterpiece to someone else. I don't see any problem here, really.

LOL at this point of the thread I've to confess that I read everything that cross my eye. Not only manga, but every book I can. Believe me, all what we think is original is just a remix of something else. And that something else is also a remix of something older.

I like Naruto. I read it before HxH and when I found HxH I just couldn't even dare to say that they were similar. Probably because the story is driven differently and the elements (That are almost in every manga) were handled differently as well.

and I second this point.

 

[Phantron]

Do most people never read Level E (also made by Togashi)? GI = Color Rangers arc and Ants = Ant Queen arc. It's far more likely Togashi just says, "You (fans) didn't like an arc about a video game or ants in Level E? Too bad, you're getting more of them now!" as opposed to whether he actually cares if someone's stealing his ideas, not to mention Level E predates HXH so if 'real life video game' and 'super powerful ants' are really such great ideas to steal, they're readily available to be stolen.

 

[EverEndingStory]

You might as well say Meryem is a copy of Perfect Cell. At least they actually look alike.

Completely different. Mereum IS SUPPOSED TO LOOK LIKE PERFECT CELL. He is, in a sense, a visual copy. He is an homage to Cell, as well as a deconstruction of the "Perfect Warrior"/"Ultimate Creation" supervillain trope. Togashi meant for people to get a Cell-vibe from him, in order to establish the precedent of that archetype before deconstructing it.

"Woman with mega strength" is a relatively common subtype and that's about the only thing Biscuit has in common wiht Tsunade.

Not just that, but also the fact that both use their powers to make themselves look younger then they actually are, and both use healing (Biscuit's Magical Spa Service).

Okay, i'm done my rant. Now, i just want to say that i was in no way trying to put down Hunter x Hunter. As i stated it's my favorite ongoing shounen, i was just trying to make even playing ground and pointing out both sides to the coin. HxH is great. Togashi is great. Kishimoto is great. Naruto is great. I'm just sick and tired of people bashing and calling Naruto a copy.

Not everyone is doing that. I like Naruto. The writing can be bad at times, and the pacing can be off, but some parts of it are amazing, and overall its really good. Its the anime/manga that first got me deeply invested in anime - it was the first series I ever started watching in Japanese, cause I couldn't wait each week for Cartoon Network to put out the next episode. After finishing the first 135 episodes of the first series, it became the first manga I started reading, cause I couldn't wait for the filler to end. Sasuke, while not a GREAT character, if only because he has been so incredibly schizophrenic through a good portion of Part II, is an incredibly ambitious character to write - a character who we watch gradually transform from protagonist to antagonist over the course of the series - its basically Breaking Bad. And although not as well written, more people should commend Kishi for his ambition.

Outside of that, I find much of the supporting cast to be great. If Togashi is the king of making engaging villains, Kishi is the king of making engaging supporting characters.

And the fight between Naruto/Sasuke and Zabuza in part 1 is one of the greatest fights in manga, in my eyes. Coming from someone who got into anime the American way, I was weened on DBZ, Yu Yu Hakusho, Rurouni Kenshin, Cowboy Bebop, Akira, etc. After having learned my fight vocabulary from those scenes, the trick-based fighting in Naruto BLEW MY MIND. It completely changed how I saw fighting.

This is all high as heck praise for Naruto. Looking at it unbiased, its a good manga. Add in all the sentimental meaning I have attached to it, and I really do love it.

But that doesn't change the fact that it stole from HxH.

But the thing is - THAT STATEMENT ISN'T EVEN AN INSULT.

"Good writers borrow, greater writers steal" (or something like that). As a storyteller myself, I steal from the stories and works of art that influence me. Everyone does. Togashi steals his ass off - I don't have any examples, but I know he does simply due to the fact that his stories use SO MANY great ideas, and they all had to have come from somewhere - and nothing is original. What makes a writer, like Togashi, great is their ability to take those ideas and flip them, twist them, tweak them to their needs, and take a whole bunch of disparate ideas and make them fit.

Writing is basically a game of Tetris, I guess you could say.

Naruto and HxH are their own separate, unique works. But you can't deny that Naruto, at its foundation, got several pieces from HxH.

It isn't an insult. Its Art History, looking at how one artist influenced another, where an artist got his ideas from - how exactly did this artist piece together their work of art?

Not everyone is trying to insult Kishi. Some are. Some, on the otherhand, are simply pointing out this lineage out of reverence for Togashi - noting how big of an influence he has had. Others - like me, are just noticing it for fun, because I like both authors.

You are right - the people who are using this fact to insult Kishi really shouldn't. But in your case, pretending that Kishi DIDN'T steal isn't doing you any favors. You call those people haters, but your staunch defense and blindness to the facts make you look just as unreasonable.

 

[Phantron]

So Meryem resembling Perfect Cell is a homage but anyone else doing anything similar is just stealing. Never mind that Togashi never stated these two characters are supposed to be related in any way but clearly everyone just knew that to be true. If you look at enough manga you'll easily find a lot of characters that look like someone else in another manga. I've seen a picture of another manga that predates HXH with a character that looks exactly like Zeno.

At first I thought the counter movement against HXH of "HXH stole everything from Jojo's Adventures" but I can see why such a movement existed. I have never read anything past the first 3 pages of Jojo's Adventures but chronologically they got the 'fights that involve special abilities and a brain' locked up, and that's essentially 95% of HXH there. And it's sad because Jojo's Adventures is some fringe manga that very few people actually liked so they're always wailing against HXH for stealing its alleged place in manga history. HXH, though, is always solidly mainstream and doesn't need to be crying about how other manga stole completely vague concepts. If you really think HXH is that great, you should be insulted that people can steal from it and still suck so horrendously bad from this alleged masterpiece.

The elitism of the HXH fans is rather ridiculous. If not for Togashi's nonexistent work ethics there will be more of you than the number of Naruto fans for sure, yet the rally cry for the HXH fanbase is always 'this is different from the unwashed masses' despite there are more of you than Bleach fans and almost as many as Naruto fans in the primary region of interest for manga (Asia). It's like getting the benefit of the 'fringe manga' without even being in the fringe. As a follower of many fringe mangas out there, the HXH fans doesn't even have a clue of what it's like to be a fan of 'something awesome that nobody has ever heard of'. This is a fanbase that can fight anything besides OP in sheer numbers. HXH might not be the New York Yankees of manga (that'd be OP) but they're definitely a marquee franchise too.

 

[Uriel]

Suddenly I feel this could become a fight to see how is the more Hipster and I really, really, really want to avoid that shit.

So please, try to get on topic. Thing at hands are the similarity between Naruto and Hunter X Hunter, not about their fanbase.

 

[Phantron]

Suddenly I feel this could become a fight to see how is the more Hipster and I really, really, really want to avoid that shit.

So please, try to get on topic. Thing at hands are the similarity between Naruto and Hunter X Hunter, not about their fanbase.

Talking about vague things like characterizations and you always end up with the conclusion that everything stole from whatever you think is the greatest thing since sliced bread. A legitmate thread on these things might look like this one: (in Chinese, but should be obvious what's being compared here).

http://www.tuku.cc/news/html/359.html

Even on something like Black Cat which where there's really no question what it ripped the character design off of, you'd have a hard time matching Sven with Jet, Eve with Edward, or Minatsuki Saya with Julia. Black Cat is a ripoff of Cowboy Bebop because there's basically a matching character and matching relationship between all the major characters. Of course even here you'd end up with some really stretches like Edward and Eve are similar because both are girls and both are children, and I guess both can sort of hack into machines even though Edward is a hacker and Eve is 'one with machines'.

I remember on the notes for Ruroni Kenshin says basically almost every character in it is a design based on some existing stuff (mostly Marvel). Tomoe, for example, is based on Ayanami Rei. This isn't speculation or anything, the author flat out says where he got his design from and yet I don't remember people talking about how Kenshin was just a massive ripoff of other stuff. Then again bashing Kenshin doesn't seem to get you any cool points so you don't hear about this stuff.

 

[EverEndingStory]

So Meryem resembling Perfect Cell is a homage but anyone else doing anything similar is just stealing. Never mind that Togashi never stated these two characters are supposed to be related in any way but clearly everyone just knew that to be true. If you look at enough manga you'll easily find a lot of characters that look like someone else in another manga. I've seen a picture of another manga that predates HXH with a character that looks exactly like Zeno.

I make the connection of it being an homage not simply due to the fact that Meryem bears a very obvious resemblance to a VERY UNIQUE CHARACTER DESIGN (Zeno isn't a unique character design, I wouldn't be surprised if there are tons of characters who look like the characters of HxH, who all look like very typical anime characters), but also because he matches Cell in his character as a super-villain.

The difference between an homage/allusion and STEALING is that one counts on the connection being made, while the other does not. Further, though Meruem matches Cell in appearance and character, he does not borrow from Cell in his role or story. Unlike Sasuke, who, arguably matching both Kurapika and Killua in character, also takes from them his role and - in the beginning - his character narrative.

An homage/allusion makes people go "Oh, he got that from this. Cool", while stealing is meant to make people go "that's interesting" or "that's a cool idea", without recognition of the parents.

You might be able to make some kind of formula about it being a ratio of "how much is borrowed from a source" and "how visible the original DNA still is".

None of the ideas were made by Togashi either - like I said, nothing is original, and that was true even back in 1998 when HxH first came out. The reason the specific connection between Naruto and HxH is made because there are so many SPECIFIC ideas, and SPECIFICALLY SYNTHESIZED CLUSTERS of ideas that the two share in common, with HxH having synthesized those ideas together first.

It's like this: I don't know if you, or any of you, follow hip-hop, but in hip-hop there is a group called OutKast. There is also a rapper named B.o.B., who is pretty popular nowadays. B.o.b STEALS from OutKast. OutKast is a very original group, but they didn't invent a genre. Their originality comes from their unique synthesis of other ideas. Mixing dirty south hip-hop with elements of jazz, funk, soul, gospel, blues and rock n'roll, and for having Afro Futurist ("black man from the stars") themes and images in their lyrics. Now, they aren't the first hip-hop group to mix rap with funk, or rap with gospel, or rap with (etc, etc). Nor are they the first artists to talk about afronauts. . . that has been part of Afro-American culture for years. They are the first artists, however, to utilize that specific mix of ideas and elements. What makes B.o.B seem like he is stealing from Outkast isn't his use of any one of these ideas, which he could have gotten from numerous places (and everyone gets something from somewhere, so everyone is a thief), but because he has so many ideas and elements in common with 'Kast, borrowing their whole synthesis.

That's why people see Kishi as stealing from Togashi.

But like I said, stealing isn't bad, and Kishi is not without merit for it. He took ideas, inspired by another source, and flipped them to make them fit well in his story.

And no, Togashi isn't the only one who can write an homage. Naruto is full of homages. The main character is a brilliant homage to Son Goku. I remember a few years back people were criticizing him for being stolen from DBZ, and all I could think was "are you people stupid, his appearance is clearly an allusion". I also consider the Third Hokage to be an allusion to Goku, being that he is the Monkey-themed character who is the most powerful Shinobi, but who dies, passing the torch (Will of Fire) on to the rest of Konoha (i.e., on to the main cast of Naruto). I consider Tsunade as having been stolen. I could definitely see Orochimaru, though, as being an homage to Hisoka. And the Nine-Tailed Fox demon Kurama, I think, is a nod to Yu Yu Hakusho's Fox demon Kurama. Rock Lee is a nod to both Jackie Chan and Bruce Lee, Killer Bee is a nod to the rap group the Wu-Tang clan, and Darui is a nod to the Black Panthers. Not to mention all the allusions to literature, mythology and religion. Meryem was a great homage and deconstruction of Cell and supervillains of his style, but when it comes to intelligently paying reverence to culture, history and the arts, Kishi is God.

 

[Tombadgerlock]

Outside of that, I find much of the supporting cast to be great. If Togashi is the king of making engaging villains, Kishi is the king of making engaging supporting characters.

Great post overall, but i wouldn't under-estimate Togashi's support cast either- Hanzo, Wing, young boy who trains under him,Kurapika, Zepille, Biscuit, Kaito, Morau, Knuckle, Shoot, Netero and the Zoldyck in general are all GREAT support character.