Question If Irwin loses command who should replace him?

[Beatrice]

I'll continue this later as I need to head to work, to me it can only be Nile.

---------- Post added October 23, 2013 at 07:08 AM ---------- Previous post was October 22, 2013 at 11:20 PM ----------

Okay gonna continue on.

First of all:
Erens Trial was about choosing to which branch he will be sent to but furthermore it was a mental battle between the two leaders of their factions.
Nile and Irvin.
Zacklay put Eren and his trust to Irvin and we saw the results in the latest chapters.Huge Losses.Eren was about to be taken again.Irvin lost an Arm.Scouting Legion is pretty much nearly wiped out to be bluntly honest.

It only makes sense to me that Zacklay is gonna regret his trial decision and appoint Nile for the sake of "actual results."
Besides, only Isayama knows just how many men died within the Scouting Legion. How many people are under Niles command?
5000.Even Pixis is below him.
More than enough to actually keep alive the Scouting Legion.I mean, how are they supposed to exist with such few people?Who are left?
Eren,Connie,Sasha (?),Historia,Armin.
KO'd Jean.
Badly injured Mikasa.
A badly injured Hanji.
Injured Levi
and a crippled Irvin.
We already saw that the MP had to fill spots in the mission to retrieve Eren cause they lacked Men and now they are nearly all wiped out.

The MP are the only ones with enough Soldiers and the Central had already decided that the MP need to get their shit together and fight on the front as well.


Personally I would LOVE it to be Anka though chances are slim though a definitely worthy candidate.

 

[kkck]

I would argue that the issue with nile is that he does not know anything about the scouting legion (at least as far as we know). The scouting legion works under dramatically different circumstances than the other military units. Something else worth considering here is that scouting legion members are not that easily replaceable, its not just about getting people there. Scouting legion members have already been shown to be significantly stronger than other military members on average. Scouting legion members have already shown to be rather adequate at killing titans while in turn the only thing people from other units do when faced with titans is die. Whoever replaces irwin, if he is replaced, has to be someone that can do better work than irwin when it comes to managing the scouting legion.

Would replacing irwin even do anything for that matter? The scouting legion has always had high mortality rates and without a doubt things are specially bad however there is a definite distinction between this being because irwin is in some form or context incompetent or because overnight being a member of the scouting legion became that much more dangerous. The scouting legion used to go exploring and simply dealt with regular titans however nowadays they are dealing with shifters. Shifters are almost impossible to deal with, even a rampaging eren was able to take on 20 titans on his own.

 

[epictoads]

KingOfNight, that's incorrect. He gave the order to retreat as soon as the Female Titan was eaten. Uptil then the plan had gone as expected. So really he did exactly what ypu said he should, retreat once the plan failed. The only soldiers that died after that were Levi's squad and the ones that got nabbed on the way back (shown in the Anime). Erwin was expecting the Female Titan to arrive (well a Titan shifter, he didn't know what it would look like hence why he brought a ton of firepower to stop her). And if he retreated without learning anything (he can't just assume the soldiers who fought her would have all the info) then that would have meant that those troops would have died wiithout meaning. Are you trying to say that he should have retreated before they captured the Female Titan(?). That would have made the whole mission pointless "draw out enemy, let enemy take out troops, then retreat without gaining anything.

Also, Levi's squad died because they didn't know of all her strange powers like hard skin. Mikasa would've also died if Levi didn't save her, and she was only there because she heard Eren. Levi fought her when she was tired out and he knew of her weird powers. So if they had fought her straight away there's no guarantee they could win. And like I said above, that is a stupid plan because they wouldn't learn anything after sacrificing troops to get her there. If Erwin knew she would escape maybe he would have tried to kill her, but without a time machine he aint gonna know that. And they already knew Titan shifters attracted Titans, but they didn't know some can call them into a pirahna-like frenzy. So they had minimal information (none they couldn't already know from Eren) on the Female Titan prior to capturing her. So to use what you've said, that is not worth a huge portion of the SC dying, just to know she has similar powers to Eren? That's ALL that the soldiers like Armin knew (yes he had her believed ID but Erwin doesn't know that).

---------- Post added at 07:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:15 PM ----------

Would replacing irwin even do anything for that matter? The scouting legion has always had high mortality rates

They said that the SC usually have a 30% mortality rate when things don't go right. But they lost an entire right flank and a portion of a city on the Female Titan, as well as probably half the soldiers when dealing with the Armored Titan. They could be down to 35% of the soldiers they had last week. As well as losing all of their best fighters (Levi's squad, Mike, a lot of Mike's squad, Mikasa/Levi/Hanji's team injured, as well as Erwin himself) and we've seen how important they we're to the legion. I may also take back Hanji being the new leader just because she is really needed as a soldier if she's recovered. They are really struggling currently just to have troops to fight with. Hopefully the government let him of after discovering Eren's power (IMO Eren's ability is better than keeping those soldiers). But I agree with Beatrice that the MP are the only option. Unless they have some badass teams from the North Garrison to call in.

 

[MajiinX]

I actually think if anything Nile Dawk would be the last one put in command. The King was quite displeased in the MPs corruption and lack of discipline he intends on making some changes in the MPs and even ordered that they assist the SC in capturing the RB and rescuing Eren. After the mission I'm sure the MPs lack of combat ability will only further these changes since they are the last line of defense and are charged with defending the King and Nobility he will want to make sure they are able to do so since the Shifters can infiltrate and breach walls.

So while Erwin was forced to sacrificing many lives he was in a very short period of time able to:

Figure out there was another shifter, and that it was Annie.
Was able to successful devise a plan to capture her in the city with minimal casualties and damage despite fighting in the city.
Was able to figure out the identity of the Colossal and Armored Titan and almost kill them (had Mikasa not borked that up)
Was able to hunt them down and rescue Eren who is the key to humanities survivable and in the process unlocked a power that will completely change things to humanities favor to the point where normal titans may not even be a threat anymore.

If anything Erwin will return a hero, despite the massive loses they faced a powerful enemy they knew very little of and had to deal with insurmountable odds and yet still accomplished much of what they wanted. They have Eren back, they have Annie in custody and RB are long gone and they will be more then ready for them. If anything I see Erwin replacing Nile Dawk to help route out corruption in the MPs and bring disciple and honor to them.

Whoever it may be they have some big shoes to fill, Erwin did say that he already has a replacement ready to take over so only time will tell. Perhaps chapter 51 will give us a better picture.

 

[nesean]

Have we read too much into Erwin's line of "someone can replace me"? Can it just be a way of saying, "everyone is replaceable except for Eren"?

 

[MajiinX]

Have we read too much into Erwin's line of "someone can replace me"? Can it just be a way of saying, "everyone is replaceable except for Eren"?

I personally feel its more about him losing his arm then anything. I feel like who ever leads the SC still has to be able to lead from the front and also be able to dispatch titans as well which would be very difficult with 1 arm. Levi and Hanji were both relived of duties temporarily for their injuries which weren't all that grevious, Erwins is obviously quite permanent.

 

[Gmuni]

KingofKnight is your favorite character Rico Brzenska by any chance because your entire argument sound just like something she would say.

 

[KingOfNight]

KingofKnight is your favorite character Rico Brzenska by any chance because your entire argument sound just like something she would say.

Rico Brzenska? Who's that? Someone in SnK?

 

[Sigma]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this or not but I think with about 10 years experience or so Jean would make a great leader for the scouting legion. Sure, he might not excel in any one particular area but he is adept at using his teammates to their greatest strengths. Ever since Marco died Jean has started taking on a lot of his qualities, including his leadership skills.

Rico Brzenska? Who's that? Someone in SnK?

Other than Mikasa, Armin, and Erin, she was the only survivor of the elite squad during the "plug the hole" operation to retake Trost.

 

[nesean]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this or not but I think with about 10 years experience or so Jean would make a great leader for the scouting legion. Sure, he might not excel in any one particular area but he is adept at using his teammates to their greatest strengths. Ever since Marco died Jean has started taking on a lot of his qualities, including his leadership skills.



Other than Mikasa, Armin, and Erin, she was the only survivor of the elite squad during the "plug the hole" operation to retake Trost.

No one would dare to suggest that with all the recent hype of Armin being Erwin 2.0. Though I really prefer the Jean + Armin duo for the commander position in the future - in my opinion, much more interesting than just one person doing the decision-making.

 

[Beatrice]

I actually think if anything Nile Dawk would be the last one put in command. The King was quite displeased in the MPs corruption and lack of discipline he intends on making some changes in the MPs and even ordered that they assist the SC in capturing the RB and rescuing Eren

Yeah, the King.We're talking about Zacklay who is confirmed to be one of the Monsters like Irvin.The whole point thing with Zacklay is, he does what he thinks is right for Humanity.We were even told if he thinks executing Eren is the right way he would.

The whole Trial was about him deciding if the right choice is handing Eren to Irvin or Nile.
There is no other way, it's one of them, and as said, Eren is needed to retrieve Maria.

After the mission I'm sure the MPs lack of combat ability will only further these changes since they are the last line of defense and are charged with defending the King and Nobility he will want to make sure they are able to do so since the Shifters can infiltrate and breach walls.

Actually, only Top 10 make it to Police.Leaving aside Hitch.The only thing not rated is H2H.
And it's unfair to say the MP suck at fighting after this, when Irvin downright sacrificed them all.Besides, this was hardly a normal mission.

So while Erwin was forced to sacrificing many lives he was in a very short period of time able to:

Figure out there was another shifter, and that it was Annie.
Was able to successful devise a plan to capture her in the city with minimal casualties and damage despite fighting in the city.
Was able to figure out the identity of the Colossal and Armored Titan and almost kill them (had Mikasa not borked that up)
Was able to hunt them down and rescue Eren who is the key to humanities survivable and in the process unlocked a power that will completely change things to humanities favor to the point where normal titans may not even be a threat anymore.

Precisely, but I'm talking about the price of that.
Irvin was already questioned for his actions and methods, results are something different it's the HOW and that he failed to retrieve Maria which is why Zacklay handed Eren to the Legion.

But I agree with Beatrice that the MP are the only option. Unless they have some badass teams from the North Garrison to call in.

Possible.We only saw the Southern Region Soldiers.
Pixis,Anka,Gustav,Ian,Mitabi,Rico,Hannes etc.
Don't think we had ever been shown anything from the North.

 

[MajiinX]

No one would dare to suggest that with all the recent hype of Armin being Erwin 2.0. Though I really prefer the Jean + Armin duo for the commander position in the future - in my opinion, much more interesting than just one person doing the decision-making.

Now that you mention it that would be an awesome idea. Give Armin tactical command with Jean as field commander and Mikasa as head of special ops now that would be a powerhouse combo.

And of course have Eren with an army of titans at his disposal. I hope we see the day when Eren sets hundreds of titans on the warrior hometown, let them see how it feels.

 

[kkck]

Jean is too young to have any sort of position within the scouting legion. Has he even killed a titan before? Someone mentioned in another thread that the SL we have seen so far consist of only the south regiment which means there must be a number of people we have yet to see and could be viable replacements. All the rookies except armin and mikasa are massively under qualified to be anything other than opinionless foot soldiers in the scouting legion. They have neither experience or skill.

 

[nesean]

^ He did kill one back in the Trost supply room; but that doesn't really matter. All of the 104th-s have neither experience or skills (or both) to be in any leadership positions currently, and that includes Armin and Mikasa as well. What I said was for in the future - even 5 years might work.

 

[ArmoredTitan]

JEAN

 

[shingeki]

JEAN has shown zero military prowess.
Armin has shown military prowess decades ahead of his age

JEAN

 

[Sigma]

JEAN has shown zero military prowess.
Armin has shown military prowess decades ahead of his age

Incorrect. Jean took charge during the supply run crisis and herded everyone into the building while the Titans were distracted by eating several soldiers. He also took charge when him, Armin, and Reiner were trying to delay the Female Titan.

Armin does have greater tactical ability than Jean, however Jean has greater leadership skills.

 

[nesean]

Incorrect. Jean took charge during the supply run crisis and herded everyone into the building while the Titans were distracted by eating several soldiers. He also took charge when him, Armin, and Reiner were trying to delay the Female Titan.

Armin does have greater tactical ability than Jean, however Jean has greater leadership skills.

More recent ones: when Ymir took Historia in chapter 47, and chapter 50 with Armin. He's the one who was "giving orders".

 

[kannazuki]

Jean and Armin each have their strengths and could make a good team in future, but they're both too inexperienced for it right now, imo.

 

[nesean]

^ Agree with that; although it can be said what the 104th had experienced in less than a year equals to what others have faced during the past many decades. There were no wall breach before 850, and no shifters causing havocs. (not sure if that's correct) But let just say what happened in the past 50 chapters were "never seen before events" in terms of the 100 years or so history of SnK walled-in humanity.

Realistically though, yea, they'll need more years.