Individual potential

[Hussy1234]

Really Yeon is Bams strongest companion.

Androsi, koon and Rak are far above Yeon. Those three have highest potential. Siu even from start building them that way.
Androsis family is mystery. She has been specially put in the situation to be a princess by the snak charmer. And siu can easily put androsi high up with her mystery.

Second about Rak . Siu already has shown the possibility of Rak becoming one of the powerhouse. The entire concept of native one is to show about future possibilities for Rak. And native ones are even compare with FH so much that even Zahard had to put cursed on them.

Then about koon. From start he is shown as the most genius even high ranker fall for his play. His affinity is even very rare and strong. Also he is gaining power other then his family. The fire ability which is from Yeon ranker which later we learnt that actually fire ability is given by the native to Yeon Hana. And then he is one of the best light bearer. From what we have seen he alredy is ranker lvl light bearer.

And about irregular vs tower inside people. Siu never said that all irregular are above all tower inhabitants. Siu just said irregular can break towers law. They have infinite potential but that doesn't mean all irregular are infinite.
Like at present Bam and Rachel can be easily be killed by many of the tower inhabitants.
The especial case of FH and Zahard is that they had made contract with 100 floor administrator. Which tower inhabitants cant break but for that siu have even put many possibilities to break the contract.

Like kill the 100 ft gurdain then his contract is no more all FH become mortal again. Then even if they are all powerful they can be beaten by ganking.

 

[Demonspeed]

@adonisp13 There is a difference between talent and strength you know. I never said Yuri was among the strongest Ha, but she has been called the most talented. Baam has exceptional talent but he is nowhere near his peak atm.

I agree in parts, in fact, it is not possible to say who is stronger between Enne and Adori, but a lineage determines a lot its strength. We saw that from the beginning, members of 10 families were always above the other inhabitants, especially DDs. People like kaiser, who has more talent than many DDs are rare and cases like Androssi, Adori (probably) and Hatsu are even rarer. If a DD of an irregular is already something big, imagine 2? Perhaps Enne are stronger than Adori and Baek, who knows that some of the FH are not superior to the ranking, but I didn’t believe much in the latter, it is possible, despite that, the same time may not be, do not have enough information to that. However, given her lineage, the data mentioned by Garam and her status, we can conclude that she is at the top of the tower.

About Yuri, in the matter of favorite it is very simple, she is a princess Zahard who became a carrier of 13 months and is rising quickly, so it is normal for her to be favorite, the Ha twins have been there since before the genesis, since they were them that they practically set up the Ha family and as Yurin doesn’t get involved, they are the leaders, so I don’t see the issue of favoritism as an argument. I went to the chapter you mentioned and in fact you have a line like this, but can we say based only on the line of a random person? The very question of Yuri being favored within your family can lead to comments like that, but I find it very vague to state something based on a comment from a random servant.

I don't entirely agree with what you said about 10F members always being above especially now that we are learning more about races, Shinsoo abilities and stuff. We know that most of the Princesses aren't even from the 10F for example. The 10F dominate for obvious reasons though.

There are so many variables when it comes to battle that I don't think about lineage too much. Bloodline is important, but because of this too, the term genius and/or talent is used too often. To add, people also have their individualities, personal talents(like AA's talent at Light Bearing which is not genetic) you can add to the mix.

We know the 13 Warriors were geniuses, they have high specs and instincts etc. Their descendants aren't necessarily the same, they have natural high specs, some Attributes they are generally good at, but it doesn't mean they have good instincts or skills(most of them, we know Koon, Arie and Ari are born with insane Spear, Sword, Needle skill) but that's it. It doesn't mean they have a better fighting style, or greater potential, or are faster learners.

What Jinsung said against Kallavan describes my thoughts well I'd say. Ha are born with strong bodies, but it doesn't necessarily mean their skills are good.

I don't see how Yuri being the favorite is normal when we have two very old Ha twins who, according to a large portion of the fanbase should have talents comparable to Enne. Zahard Princesses for the 10F are great but still, Yuri is still a baby compared to them.

Yes maybe their favoritism plays a role but the very fact that Yuri is so popular is telling enough IMO.

 

[sazon]

@adonisp13 There is a difference between talent and strength you know. I never said Yuri was among the strongest Ha, but she has been called the most talented. Baam has exceptional talent but he is nowhere near his peak atm.



I don't entirely agree with what you said about 10F members always being above especially now that we are learning more about races, Shinsoo abilities and stuff. We know that most of the Princesses aren't even from the 10F for example. The 10F dominate for obvious reasons though.

There are so many variables when it comes to battle that I don't think about lineage too much. Bloodline is important, but because of this too, the term genius and/or talent is used too often. To add, people also have their individualities, personal talents(like AA's talent at Light Bearing which is not genetic) you can add to the mix.

We know the 13 Warriors were geniuses, they have high specs and instincts etc. Their descendants aren't necessarily the same, they have natural high specs, some Attributes they are generally good at, but it doesn't mean they have good instincts or skills(most of them, we know Koon, Arie and Ari are born with insane Spear, Sword, Needle skill) but that's it. It doesn't mean they have a better fighting style, or greater potential, or are faster learners.

What Jinsung said against Kallavan describes my thoughts well I'd say. Ha are born with strong bodies, but it doesn't necessarily mean their skills are good.

I don't see how Yuri being the favorite is normal when we have two very old Ha twins who, according to a large portion of the fanbase should have talents comparable to Enne. Zahard Princesses for the 10F are great but still, Yuri is still a baby compared to them.

Yes maybe their favoritism plays a role but the very fact that Yuri is so popular is telling enough IMO.

On the contrary, most of the princesses are from 10 families, it has already been said and that is what we have until today, counting only the princesses properly presented, of course.

I am not saying that only the members of the 10 families are strong in the tower, I am saying that it is the most frequent. The 10 families do not only involve the genetics of the irregular 13GW, there are also other strains within the tower. The vast majority of strong and prominent rankers that we have so far involve the 10 families, as do the regulars. Of course, there are different talents even among DDs. That is why I say that people like Androssi and Hatsu, who as far as we know have no lineage are rare in the tower.

I honestly don't know why you keep going with the popularity argument. It's simple, at least in my life, a child receives more attention than an adult. Yuri has incredible deeds and keeps breaking records inside the tower, climbing quickly, becoming high-ranker in just 100 years, she is very similar to the leader of her family, besides Yurin herself liking her, of course she will be like a celebrity within her clan. I don't see this as something that differentiates her from the Ha twins, who are practically the leaders of those in the family.

 

[Demonspeed]

On the contrary, most of the princesses are from 10 families, it has already been said and that is what we have until today, counting only the princesses properly presented, of course.

Presented? Yes. But here's what SIU said in a blog post:

With regards to Princesses of Zahard,
a Princess who is a direct descendent of one of the 10 House Heads is especially influential and powerful.
As you can probably tell with Androssi at the moment,
being a Princess of Zahard is an incredible position,
and if a Princess is from one of the 10 Families,
she will become the central power of that Family in the future,
so this is even more incredible.

You could say that among Princesses, Androssi is on a fairly warm and human (?) level.
As for Princesses from the 10 Families,
they have clear hierarchical relationships and don't even treat Regulars as human beings if they're not from the 10 Families.
Of course, they're also just that rare,
and there is only one single Princess who is a direct lineal descendent of one of the 10 House Heads.
Even if we count just the number of Princesses from one of the 10 Families,
there are about 3 of them.

Source.

So, most of the Princesses are not from the 10 Families, and if they are, most aren't direct descendants.

I am not saying that only the members of the 10 families are strong in the tower, I am saying that it is the most frequent. The 10 families do not only involve the genetics of the irregular 13GW, there are also other strains within the tower. The vast majority of strong and prominent rankers that we have so far involve the 10 families, as do the regulars. Of course, there are different talents even among DDs. That is why I say that people like Androssi and Hatsu, who as far as we know have no lineage are rare in the tower.

I know that it's not what you are trying to say, but my point is that, the more we explore the Tower, the less special the descendants seem. Descendants of the 13GW already get great genetic talent even if there are rare cases when they don't share the talent of the FH, Regulars who aren't from the 10F can have talent rivalling the 10F descendants. Even among these descendants their talents(genetic or not) vary. As Regulars, I think it's easier for 10F descendants to stand out since they have a good environment in general and good genetic talent they can exploit but the non 10F Regulars who got to become Rankers or High Rankers have nothing to envy to 10F descendants IMO(besides prestige I guess) because they got to polish their skills, techniques etc.

The average 10F descendant is stronger than the average non 10F descendant but it becomes more irrelevant at a high or very high level is what I want to say. Hatsu has never been portrayed as particulaly talented AFAIR, but he is dedicated to the sword and I have no doubt he'll become a High Ranker.

I honestly don't know why you keep going with the popularity argument. It's simple, at least in my life, a child receives more attention than an adult. Yuri has incredible deeds and keeps breaking records inside the tower, climbing quickly, becoming high-ranker in just 100 years, she is very similar to the leader of her family, besides Yurin herself liking her, of course she will be like a celebrity within her clan. I don't see this as something that differentiates her from the Ha twins, who are practically the leaders of those in the family.

Yes but it's TOG where people can live for thousand of years easily. Charisma is a thing but from what we have seen, power eclipses charisma. A large part of the fanbase believe that the Ha Twins are Enne tier and if they are they must have crazy deeds. And yet they are still eclipsed by a youngster.

From what we know Adori and Enne are ranked that high because of their feats in battle, so why aren't these two Ha the same? It's been centuries that Enne has been inactive but these Ha aren't in the top 17. Enryu's single achievement still makes him top 2 in the ranking. These two should have records too. Enne and Adori are ranked even higher than some of the FH, even an ennemy of the ZA, Luslec is so it's odd.

If these twins are so outstanding why aren't they favored compared to Yuri? My opinion might change as we learn more about Yuri and the family but for now I'll stick with Yuri is more talented and has more charisma, which makes her stand out even more, she also gets away with all the crazy stuff she does because of Ha favoritism and her standing.

At least her talent and charisma have been stated. To me it is more tangible than "being a kid of two Irregulars makes you stronger than the kid of a single Irregular". Baam, despite his lineage is a special Irregular and the only one capable of reaching Zahard's level. Enne is also portrayed as special and even she has Adori, who isn't a 10F descendant as someone comparable in power among the Princesses. These Ha Twins don't seem to be as exceptional as Enne despite their lineage.

Plus when you have a lineage like that, I think it's more likely than your genetic gifts will be more nuanced, not that they'll stack. Guess we'll see more with the likes of Lyborick and Yura(we don't know much about her father but it looks like he was rather strong and Yura doesn't have a body as strong as most Ha, but she has other skills they don't). Anak is kinda similar, her physical ability is inferior to most Princesses it seems like she has great Shinsoo talent(could create more Bangs than Laure before) and IIRC SIU said that her race can move more easily in Shinsoo(I don't have the source for this though).

 

[Siya101]

least her talent and charisma have been stated. To me it is more tangible than "being a kid of two Irregulars makes you stronger than the kid of a single Irregular". Baam, despite his lineage is a special Irregular and the only one capable of reaching Zahard's level. Enne is also portrayed as special and even she has Adori, who isn't a 10F descendant as someone comparable in power among the Princesses. These Ha Twins don't seem to be as exceptional as Enne despite their lineage

Yuri is favoured because she looks alot like ha yurin and takes after her great grandmother personality wise so thats why shes favoured because ha yurin sees herself in yuri. Also, like the blogpost you quoted stated that a princess from the GF becomes a central power in their family the same apllies to yuri not to mention how the ha family believes in het being able to collect all the 13MSs. Power wise the twins hold the shtick. They arent high in the rankings because they only hold influence in the Ha family only.

From what we know Adori and Enne are ranked that high because of their feats in battle, so why aren't these two Ha the same? It's been centuries that Enne has been inactive but these Ha aren't in the top 17. Enryu's single achievement still makes him top 2 in the ranking. These two should have records too. Enne and Adori are ranked even higher than some of the FH, even an ennemy of the ZA, Luslec is so it's odd

Being a princess has alot of clout. Adori is hardly active and yet because shes a cadre in the zahard army she is high ranked. For the most part, their high battle performance is because of zahards power and if the twins also inherited zahards power they'd be stronger than adori and enne because of the Ha family genetics. As far as them being low ranked its because their mothers power and influence dwarfs theirs. They havent left their mothers nest so when you count yurins influence they are named alongside because they are active leaders in their mothers stead. If you talk about ha family influence the ha family twins are named alongside their mother because the ha family influence is because of the twins involvement

 

[sazon]

Presented? Yes. But here's what SIU said in a blog post:



Source.

So, most of the Princesses are not from the 10 Families, and if they are, most aren't direct descendants.




I know that it's not what you are trying to say, but my point is that, the more we explore the Tower, the less special the descendants seem. Descendants of the 13GW already get great genetic talent even if there are rare cases when they don't share the talent of the FH, Regulars who aren't from the 10F can have talent rivalling the 10F descendants. Even among these descendants their talents(genetic or not) vary. As Regulars, I think it's easier for 10F descendants to stand out since they have a good environment in general and good genetic talent they can exploit but the non 10F Regulars who got to become Rankers or High Rankers have nothing to envy to 10F descendants IMO(besides prestige I guess) because they got to polish their skills, techniques etc.

The average 10F descendant is stronger than the average non 10F descendant but it becomes more irrelevant at a high or very high level is what I want to say. Hatsu has never been portrayed as particulaly talented AFAIR, but he is dedicated to the sword and I have no doubt he'll become a High Ranker.



Yes but it's TOG where people can live for thousand of years easily. Charisma is a thing but from what we have seen, power eclipses charisma. A large part of the fanbase believe that the Ha Twins are Enne tier and if they are they must have crazy deeds. And yet they are still eclipsed by a youngster.

From what we know Adori and Enne are ranked that high because of their feats in battle, so why aren't these two Ha the same? It's been centuries that Enne has been inactive but these Ha aren't in the top 17. Enryu's single achievement still makes him top 2 in the ranking. These two should have records too. Enne and Adori are ranked even higher than some of the FH, even an ennemy of the ZA, Luslec is so it's odd.

If these twins are so outstanding why aren't they favored compared to Yuri? My opinion might change as we learn more about Yuri and the family but for now I'll stick with Yuri is more talented and has more charisma, which makes her stand out even more, she also gets away with all the crazy stuff she does because of Ha favoritism and her standing.

At least her talent and charisma have been stated. To me it is more tangible than "being a kid of two Irregulars makes you stronger than the kid of a single Irregular". Baam, despite his lineage is a special Irregular and the only one capable of reaching Zahard's level. Enne is also portrayed as special and even she has Adori, who isn't a 10F descendant as someone comparable in power among the Princesses. These Ha Twins don't seem to be as exceptional as Enne despite their lineage.

Plus when you have a lineage like that, I think it's more likely than your genetic gifts will be more nuanced, not that they'll stack. Guess we'll see more with the likes of Lyborick and Yura(we don't know much about her father but it looks like he was rather strong and Yura doesn't have a body as strong as most Ha, but she has other skills they don't). Anak is kinda similar, her physical ability is inferior to most Princesses it seems like she has great Shinsoo talent(could create more Bangs than Laure before) and IIRC SIU said that her race can move more easily in Shinsoo(I don't have the source for this though).

I already knew this information you mentioned, but is it still valid? There are many gaps in this. Does SIU only count the princesses rankers? Or does it encompass all princesses? Because we have:

Maschenny, Yuri, Hagi, Horn, Shilial, Lilial, Maria, Rose and Gladmerry.

With the first 3 mentioned, we have confirmation that they are from 10 families, being two DDs. Arie Horn was the first Princess Zahard, of the Arie family given to elitism and how restricted the Arie family is in relation to lineage (remember that Inieta for not being a DD was discriminated against and did not learn the family's special techniques) I very much doubt that a non-DD princess arises from the Arie family, the same argument applies to Arie Rose. Gladmerry, she could end up being an adopted daughter, given the background of the Hendo Lok family. Lilial and Shilial discriminate against Androssi for not being a princess of the 10 families (she is adopted after all) and Maria is a DD of the Koon family, since she is also Eduan's daughter. Only with that we have several princesses from the 10 families, the only thing that remains is the question of Enne.

SIU has sometimes shown that outside information can end up being revised later on like the curse of the Arie princesses and possibly Yama's past. Besides, there are many princesses that we don't have full names or we don't know if there is any relationship, like Repellista, she can be a daughter or descend from the Tperies, since she has an opera. People like Garam too, I don't particularly rule out her being a Koon, but it's personal, without proof. And there is still a supposed princess of the 10 families, Yulia who was the one who caused the loss of the Reflejo's vision. And there are others like Pondo, Heice etc.

I know that it's not what you are trying to say, but my point is that, the more we explore the Tower, the less special the descendants seem. Descendants of the 13GW already get great genetic talent even if there are rare cases when they don't share the talent of the FH, Regulars who aren't from the 10F can have talent rivalling the 10F descendants. Even among these descendants their talents(genetic or not) vary. As Regulars, I think it's easier for 10F descendants to stand out since they have a good environment in general and good genetic talent they can exploit but the non 10F Regulars who got to become Rankers or High Rankers have nothing to envy to 10F descendants IMO(besides prestige I guess) because they got to polish their skills, techniques etc.

The average 10F descendant is stronger than the average non 10F descendant but it becomes more irrelevant at a high or very high level is what I want to say. Hatsu has never been portrayed as particulaly talented AFAIR, but he is dedicated to the sword and I have no doubt he'll become a High Ranker.

That is precisely the point: high-level rankers and regulars powerful, who are not from the 10 families are few and rare. SIU has always emphasized genetic inheritance in ToG. Analyze a little, among the regulars and elite high-rankers that we know and properly know their origin, in proportion, how many are from the 10 families and how many are not? And going back a little more to the beginning of our debate, in terms of lineage, how many of these have no significant descent?

Their individual talent is another matter, but the fact that you have a good lineage influences and defines much of your potential is a fact. People like Kallavan, EVK and Khel Hellam who appear to have no lineage have external powers, I am not taking their credit, far from it, you still need to be a monster to deal with these skills, but still, there are people stronger than them and most are from 10 families.

From what we know Adori and Enne are ranked that high because of their feats in battle, so why aren't these two Ha the same? It's been centuries that Enne has been inactive but these Ha aren't in the top 17. Enryu's single achievement still makes him top 2 in the ranking. These two should have records too. Enne and Adori are ranked even higher than some of the FH, even an ennemy of the ZA, Luslec is so it's odd.

If these twins are so outstanding why aren't they favored compared to Yuri? My opinion might change as we learn more about Yuri and the family but for now I'll stick with Yuri is more talented and has more charisma, which makes her stand out even more, she also gets away with all the crazy stuff she does because of Ha favoritism and her standing.

At least her talent and charisma have been stated. To me it is more tangible than "being a kid of two Irregulars makes you stronger than the kid of a single Irregular". Baam, despite his lineage is a special Irregular and the only one capable of reaching Zahard's level. Enne is also portrayed as special and even she has Adori, who isn't a 10F descendant as someone comparable in power among the Princesses. These Ha Twins don't seem to be as exceptional as Enne despite their lineage.

First of all, I already let you not share the idea that the Ha twins are as strong as Enne, I don't have enough information to position myself in this.

The Ha twins, founded ALL the Ha family, since Yurin had no more children, that is, they have been around, at least, since the beginning of the genesis, they are stabilized people, Yuri is practically an idol, we have already seen with Androssi how popular princesses are in the tower, I still don't understand why you use charisma and popularity to associate in a matter of talent between the twins and Yuri, honestly, it doesn't make any sense. You think that from what we have been given she is the most talented in the history of the Ha clan, all right, it is your right, but her argument being more popular within the family, says nothing.

Plus when you have a lineage like that, I think it's more likely than your genetic gifts will be more nuanced, not that they'll stack. Guess we'll see more with the likes of Lyborick and Yura(we don't know much about her father but it looks like he was rather strong and Yura doesn't have a body as strong as most Ha, but she has other skills they don't). Anak is kinda similar, her physical ability is inferior to most Princesses it seems like she has great Shinsoo talent(could create more Bangs than Laure before) and IIRC SIU said that her race can move more easily in Shinsoo(I don't have the source for this though).

Given that all of the cursed by Zahard are peoples who survived his genocide, in fact we can assume that there is a lineage behind it too, like the native DDs. About Laure, he was said to be the best wave controller among the regulars at the time of the workshop battle and when asked SIU said he could do more than 3 baang, that is, at least 4. Given how good he is with Shinsoo , in terms of experience and technique, being even better than Baam at the time, he is quite capable of using 5, but there is a discussion for another time.

 

[kkck]

Ok, we have to be clear in that lineage and specially genetics are important in this series. Not even 10 family member is amazing but as far as we know 10 family member regulars at least are well more talented than non 10 family heads. Lineages don't exactly guarantee a given amount of talent but we know talent for shinsoo is basically genetic and innate and talent is the single most important aspect in controlling it.

There is also the consideration that the empire makes a point of preventing new powers from popping up in the tower. Since shinsoo control has a genetic component to it and relies on innate talent it stands to reason that new powers could appear at any point. Kallavan has a rather unique constitution and we know its the product of thousands of years of rankers killing each other and strengthening the lineage. Heck, a random ass one in a billion mutation could have a new talent pop out of a completely depowered family... the empire basically games the system and has a number of checkpoints at the tower where they can get rid of potential new powers but even for that the 10 families require substantial power themselves.

As far as 10 family princesses... the lore make the point that not all of them are from the 10 families but looking at how the system was set up it makes more sense that it would benefit 10 family members. Zahard probably doesn't care where princesses come from but on the other hand it is in the 10 family's interest to ensure their own get to become princesses contrary to outsiders from other bloodlines or species.

IIRC at some point the point was made that non humans within the tower tended to be better than humans at shinsoo control. Dunno if this was from a blog post or some other source SIU used back when he shared more about the tower's history. If we consider that bit it makes more sense that anak perhaps could lean more to shinsoo combat than CQC when fighting. Anak will always be a physical powerhouse but if her actual talent is elsewhere then it would merit reevaluation how talented she appears to be.

 

[hblock]

SIU explained that there are more than 3 princesses because of the plot's expansion

SIU FanCafe Question And Answer (By Bunnyasbanana)

The links do not work unless you are a registered member of the fan cafe. I put them anyway as sources. There are probably typos and grammatical errors, but I will fix them later. Just leave me a comment when there is confusion. ORIGINAL SOURCE...

towerofgod.fandom.com

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 7, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 7, 2020 ---

Their individual talent is another matter, but the fact that you have a good lineage influences and defines much of your potential is a fact. People like Kallavan, EVK and Khel Hellam who appear to have no lineage have external powers, I am not taking their credit, far from it, you still need to be a monster to deal with these skills, but still, there are people stronger than them and most are from 10 families.

In addition, good lineage doesn't necessary mean being born from one of the 10 GFs. There were powerful people inside the tower before the ascent of Jahad and the 12 GWs, people such as the ancient, Luslec (who may've been a relative to Arlene, only born within the tower), even Dowon's and Cha's lineage is most likely very powerful, also seeing how Jinsung noted that Kallavan is from a "powerful" bloodline, etc.
Frankly speaking, I don't get the "effort" argument. Assuming, a fodder person with no talent trains, very hard, 3 times as much as a descendant from a 10 GF with a super DNA. Assuming that training 3 times harder will allow him to become 3 times stronger than with normal training and having a life aside (which is not the case), do you think that's even remotely enough to close up such a massive gap ?

 

[kkck]

the fact remains that what matters when it comes to shinsoo control is talent. If you have talent and train you can become strong. If you don't have talent and train you simply reach your limit and... that's it. It'd be a fairly substantial change to the lore if suddenly talent and inherent limits weren't that much of a thing. Specially if that bit is incredibly important to some major plot aspects. Rachel is a character that is basically trying to overcome her own limitations, by any means necessary. Ho reached his limit, which is why cursed everything and went nuts. Even hoaquin KNEW catching up to hon was beyond his limit and was driven insane.

 

[Demonspeed]

I already knew this information you mentioned, but is it still valid? There are many gaps in this. Does SIU only count the princesses rankers? Or does it encompass all princesses? Because we have:

Maschenny, Yuri, Hagi, Horn, Shilial, Lilial, Maria, Rose and Gladmerry.

With the first 3 mentioned, we have confirmation that they are from 10 families, being two DDs. Arie Horn was the first Princess Zahard, of the Arie family given to elitism and how restricted the Arie family is in relation to lineage (remember that Inieta for not being a DD was discriminated against and did not learn the family's special techniques) I very much doubt that a non-DD princess arises from the Arie family, the same argument applies to Arie Rose. Gladmerry, she could end up being an adopted daughter, given the background of the Hendo Lok family. Lilial and Shilial discriminate against Androssi for not being a princess of the 10 families (she is adopted after all) and Maria is a DD of the Koon family, since she is also Eduan's daughter. Only with that we have several princesses from the 10 families, the only thing that remains is the question of Enne.

SIU has sometimes shown that outside information can end up being revised later on like the curse of the Arie princesses and possibly Yama's past. Besides, there are many princesses that we don't have full names or we don't know if there is any relationship, like Repellista, she can be a daughter or descend from the Tperies, since she has an opera. People like Garam too, I don't particularly rule out her being a Koon, but it's personal, without proof. And there is still a supposed princess of the 10 families, Yulia who was the one who caused the loss of the Reflejo's vision. And there are others like Pondo, Heice etc.

Yeah, I noticed the inconsistency but I think that if that's what he had in mind, the majority of the Princesses will probably not be from the 10F, we'll see. I think he was only talking about active Princesses, Rankers or not. We know they are at least 28 of them. Are we certain that Maria is a DD? I am not even sure that AA is a DD, I thought his branch was not(Yes Maria isn't from his branch but still). Since AA's sister was a favorite I doubt Koons care much about this. Eduan himself is ready to give his seat to whoever beats him.

That is precisely the point: high-level rankers and regulars powerful, who are not from the 10 families are few and rare. SIU has always emphasized genetic inheritance in ToG. Analyze a little, among the regulars and elite high-rankers that we know and properly know their origin, in proportion, how many are from the 10 families and how many are not? And going back a little more to the beginning of our debate, in terms of lineage, how many of these have no significant descent?


Their individual talent is another matter, but the fact that you have a good lineage influences and defines much of your potential is a fact. People like Kallavan, EVK and Khel Hellam who appear to have no lineage have external powers, I am not taking their credit, far from it, you still need to be a monster to deal with these skills, but still, there are people stronger than them and most are from 10 families.

Oh, I definitely agree with this. But what I was trying to say is that with all the high level battles we'll see we won't see the 10F members dominate as much when it comes to individual strength. In numbers they dominate easily.

First of all, I already let you not share the idea that the Ha twins are as strong as Enne, I don't have enough information to position myself in this.

The Ha twins, founded ALL the Ha family, since Yurin had no more children, that is, they have been around, at least, since the beginning of the genesis, they are stabilized people, Yuri is practically an idol, we have already seen with Androssi how popular princesses are in the tower, I still don't understand why you use charisma and popularity to associate in a matter of talent between the twins and Yuri, honestly, it doesn't make any sense. You think that from what we have been given she is the most talented in the history of the Ha clan, all right, it is your right, but her argument being more popular within the family, says nothing.

Fine. I am not mixing popularity with talent though. To me I find it odd that they want Yuri as leader instead of one of the two twins who are fighting for the position. Sure, she is charismatic and stuff but she is a troublemaker and she got away with a lot of things she did because of the bias towards her. Maybe they are just weird...

Androssi herself is popular among common folks but her actions are even more dangerous than Yuri since she is a Regular and has no 13MS Weapons. I don't think that she is liked by the higher ups, the family she represents is weak anyway.

Given that all of the cursed by Zahard are peoples who survived his genocide, in fact we can assume that there is a lineage behind it too, like the native DDs. About Laure, he was said to be the best wave controller among the regulars at the time of the workshop battle and when asked SIU said he could do more than 3 baang, that is, at least 4. Given how good he is with Shinsoo , in terms of experience and technique, being even better than Baam at the time, he is quite capable of using 5, but there is a discussion for another time.

I know Laure is better, I just mentioned this to highlight that it was impressive for someone who seemed more focused on the physical side of things.

IIRC at some point the point was made that non humans within the tower tended to be better than humans at shinsoo control. Dunno if this was from a blog post or some other source SIU used back when he shared more about the tower's history. If we consider that bit it makes more sense that anak perhaps could lean more to shinsoo combat than CQC when fighting. Anak will always be a physical powerhouse but if her actual talent is elsewhere then it would merit reevaluation how talented she appears to be.

Found it in the Lighthouse thread.
He didn't say that the inhabitants are generally better but that aquatic races are. I am quite sure that he said something about Anak and Rak being able to move easier in Shinsoo than most but I haven't found it.

Spoiler