Discussion Is Crocodile Whitebeard's son?

[keeper1h]

Before posting my theory I'd like to add some visual material:

As kids:

Spoiler

First meaningful appeareances:

Spoiler

Face

(please mentally delete Whitebeard's brown hair from this image)

Full body

Sons that are smaller than their fathers:
(Measurement unit: One Garp )

Spoiler

Helmeppo:

Ace:

Extra:

Spoiler

(Whitebeard had "less than wavy" hair)

(I consider this meaningful.)

(his chin seems normal here...)

(tadaaah!)

some info:
-When WB died he was 72 Years Old and Crocodile was 44 Years old.
So, when Crocodile was born... Whitebeard was 28 Years Old.

-Their hair are similar: cut young WB's hair, add just a little bit of hair gel and voilà, yakuza hairstyle.

-Look at their eyes: It's like watching Roger and Luffy.
(I say this because Luffy may be carrying on Roger's Will, not because they are related by blood)


So, that's my theory:
Whitebeard grew without a family as a street child, in a sand country.
When he was still in his twenties, at some point he fell in love with a dark haired girl from nowhere, but unfortunately that love story ended, and he leaved her for the sea.
WB never forgot her and what his life would have been at her side, so even as a pirate he pursued the one and only desire he had as a kid and as a young adult: having a family.
But Edward Newgate wasn't aware that the girl was pregnant.
She grew the baby herself, but when her son was still a kid she died, but before drawing the last breath she told her child about his father, and told him to join his crew. Instantly he blamed WB for the death of his mother, and instead of joining him he became a street child just like his father. Hateful, living a tough life, he discarded his name forever.

Time passed and the boy became a young pirate.
As he was going through adolescence, his chin started to become more and more similar to the one of the man on those bounty posters, the face he was hating so much... so the young pirate searched for a solution until he found Hogback.
What if one of Hogback apprentices were Emporio Ivankov, the future "miracle worker"?
All this happened before this person got his first bounty.

Some more time passed, and the pirate ate a Logia fruit.
Believing himself nearly invincible, he tried to fight Whitebeard, without telling him who he was.
The young man was well known for being arrogant and pitiless towards the weak ones, so Whitebeard obviously began to wipe the whole Red line with him, and the poor guy lost a hand in the process.
At this point the young man tried to stop the carnage by telling Whitebeard "I am your son, my mother name is (?) and my real name is (?)".

The man who calls all his crewmates "sons" and forgives them even if they try to kill him countless times... this man found himself trying to kill his own son, the only one who will never aknowledge him as a father.

Extra:
It's a fact that Ivankow notices the slightest things, and a chin like the one of Whitebeard isn't nowhere near "slight".
Plus if you find it on a face with the same expression as Whitebeard's, and if you tell the owner of said chin that "some pirates would kill to have it, just to go around telling that they are sons of that infamous man", and the reaction is a glare like "MY HATE IS THOUSANDS YEARS OLD"... well.


One last thing: Let's do some photoshop

Spoiler

I put this here for comparison and...

Hahaha, that face on that body feels so out of place, right? But now that's the fun part:
PLEASE NOTE: the one in the last image is not Whitebeard's face, what's over those moustaches is the face of our beloved Crocodile.

So, what do you think?

 

[takneeque]

man the pictures look really convincing.i am not much convinced by the theory part though something better could be made up.personally,i think this could work.you,sir,may be right on money.cheers.

 

[keeper1h]

Yeah, to be honest the theory was there just to add a story that had a little logic, the story itself could be more complex/surprising/else, don't know.

What struck me in the first place was the fact that their glare is literally the same. Plus, given their ages they could really be father and son... I mean, look at their eyes!

 

[catagon87]

I don't think he is Whitebeard's son. I think it's more likely that Crocodile is a transgender (female to male) given Ivankov knowing something on him (that seemed to frustrate Crocodile to say the least). I don't see Crocodile as being negatively impacted by being related to Whitebeard at that point in time. His child portrait makes him look more feminine than anything to me.

IIRC his mini series said he was twisted by the loss he suffered in GL (similar to Moria vs Kaido).

 

[keeper1h]

The transgender theory is the most mentioned one when we talk about Crocodile and Ivankov, but to be honest I think that the gender swapping ability is Ivankov's most flashy move, openly telling others that he/she knows Crocodile's little secret with that "tehehe" tone... it's like telling everyone that Croc was a female.

Imagine that phrase said by a well renowed sex reassignment surgeon in a public debate, while he's casually talking about a public figure that has a foggy past, and the surgeon is implying that he knows personally that person.

 

[takneeque]

Yeah, to be honest the theory was there just to add a story that had a little logic, the story itself could be more complex/surprising/else, don't know.

What struck me in the first place was the fact that their glare is literally the same. Plus, given their ages they could really be father and son... I mean, look at their eyes!

yup.that and the whole face just look too similar.the picture where you have photoshopped the mustache make it hard to disregard the similarities.
and about the ivankov thing,instead of a son,whitebeard could have a daughter in crocoboy that way ivankov could still change him into a boy.just guessing

IIRC his mini series said he was twisted by the loss he suffered in GL (similar to Moria vs Kaido).

is that canon?i am not sure.could you give some link to that please.

I don't see Crocodile as being negatively impacted by being related to Whitebeard at that point in time.

yea,this is something i am not sure of again.i think he definitely holds some sort of beef against whitebeard.and crocodile is
not the kind of villain to hold grudges for just loosing and he definitely wouldn't care if he had lost any nakama to whitebeard.
this looks something else,maybe something personal and then these pictures do make for some interesting afterthoughts.

 

[kkck]

I honestly can't fathom WB having a son without the world government knowing. The world government was even aware of ace to an extent, somehow and he was born something like 2 years after roger died. I doubt garp was the one who spoke... If anything it makes more sense that the world government would have known about crocodile even if WB himself didn't. And they certainly would have made better use of crocodile if he truly was WB's son.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I don't think so, Whitebeard would seem like a fool if he wanted a family if Crocodile was his child(he never specifically said sons or sons only), so why would he go around gathering these strays who Crocodile could easily have been grouped in? Why would a father utterly defeat his son? Lastly, we saw how Whitebeard reacted when one of his adopted sons stabbed him, he hugged him; based on this utter defeat which is out of character assuming Crocodile is truly his son/daughter, I think there's very little truth to the theory.

Crocodile may also not be a female in the picture, he could just have been very well groomed and that aspect of his character if I'm correct is consistent with his attire and sense of style (of course he's still no competition for Cavendish, lol).

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

As much as I like the idea, I think the real connection they have is that WB was prolly the one to whom Crocodile lost his hand, and possibly his crew. WB and the Yonko in general can be seen as responsible for ending the dream of many new pirates. It's pretty much similar to how Moria lost to Kaido. So after losing his crew Crocodile decided to join the Shichibukai, since I believe he's the first to join according to the timeline.

 

[keeper1h]

I honestly can't fathom WB having a son without the world government knowing. The world government was even aware of ace to an extent, somehow and he was born something like 2 years after roger died. I doubt garp was the one who spoke... If anything it makes more sense that the world government would have known about crocodile even if WB himself didn't. And they certainly would have made better use of crocodile if he truly was WB's son.

You spoke about what was my only doubt.
Even if WB was young and disappeared quickly from the unknown village, and the girl died few years later, and the kid himself always refused to have his name associated to Whitebeard... what are the chances that the World Government didn't found anything about a possible son?

But then I think that they refused to see Hancock going all Sanji for Luffy at Marineford, and there were plenty of evidences.
What saved Luffy was Hancock's reputation as a man hater... What saved Crocodile was how bad was beaten by a man who considers himself father of countless men, and Croc's hatred towards him.
Even if they found out that there was a single chance that there was a son of that man around... they never considered Crocodile as a suitable candidate. After all it's not like "marines has children that becomes marines, pirates will produce pirates", even if we are talking about Whitebeard. After they found nothing for years, they must have concluded that even if WB had a child of unknown gender... that person was unaware of who his father was, or maybe that person died, or piracy never interested that person anyway.

 

[Eigengrau]

Son? If anything, Crocodile is his daughter.

 

[takneeque]

I honestly can't fathom WB having a son without the world government knowing. The world government was even aware of ace to an extent, somehow and he was born something like 2 years after roger died. I doubt garp was the one who spoke... If anything it makes more sense that the world government would have known about crocodile even if WB himself didn't. And they certainly would have made better use of crocodile if he truly was WB's son.

true but it's not entirely impossible for this to happen(ace didn't care whereas crocodile is at least more discreet) and on the other hand it could lend more credibility to the secret that crocodile want ivankov to not spill.though now that i think of it,the author chose not to pursue this plotline when WB died and crocodile was present there. that would have been the rather appropriate moment to splash things out.

I don't think so, Whitebeard would seem like a fool if he wanted a family if Crocodile was his child(he never specifically said sons or sons only), so why would he go around gathering these strays who Crocodile could easily have been grouped in? Why would a father utterly defeat his son? Lastly, we saw how Whitebeard reacted when one of his adopted sons stabbed him, he hugged him; based on this utter defeat which is out of character assuming Crocodile is truly his son/daughter, I think there's very little truth to the theory.

Crocodile may also not be a female in the picture, he could just have been very well groomed and that aspect of his character if I'm correct is consistent with his attire and sense of style (of course he's still no competition for Cavendish, lol).

i agree there are too many loose ends to overcome wb's established image but a plausible plot could overcome these issues.about crocodile,i feel just like dd,there could be some parallel to enhance crocodile's ancestry.also,oda's sketches of female characters are rather one dimensional,it may be possible that he based a female/male character on something familiar.it's the idea that he was a father figure that makes it scandalously desirable for me to approach the plot that way.
i know that i am reaching but the comparision in pictures are very striking so i just want to explore some conclusions.again,one could argue against their similarities to just a coincidence on mangaka's part.

As much as I like the idea, I think the real connection they have is that WB was prolly the one to whom Crocodile lost his hand, and possibly his crew. WB and the Yonko in general can be seen as responsible for ending the dream of many new pirates. It's pretty much similar to how Moria lost to Kaido. So after losing his crew Crocodile decided to join the Shichibukai, since I believe he's the first to join according to the timeline.

the thing is that crocodile lost to luffy and he didn't care much for it later.he,like most other characters in manga is rather self-indulgent on that account.no grudges for losing(even if it's an arm or a leg).nakama wise,crocodile is even more aloof.he didn't care and there has been no mention of his supposed nakama.

maybe all crocodile had was some loser's beef with wb and it certainly wouldn't make sense to play with wb's history as a caring father after it has been so assuredly established.but as always with oda,the situation is not conclusive and the pictures in op's post have made me think along these lines.i guess i would sleep on it and see if it still holds it's charm in the morning.

 

[hokageji]

As much as I like the idea, I think the real connection they have is that WB was prolly the one to whom Crocodile lost his hand, and possibly his crew. WB and the Yonko in general can be seen as responsible for ending the dream of many new pirates. It's pretty much similar to how Moria lost to Kaido. So after losing his crew Crocodile decided to join the Shichibukai, since I believe he's the first to join according to the timeline.

Yea, or how Spyder lost to Gol D Roger. Roger killed all his team-mates and he didnt get a chance for revenge either. I see WB a lot more benevolent than Roger, i doubt if that would be the case, WB would just make everyone his family. But it could be something on those lines without death necessarly.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

Yea, or how Spyder lost to Gol D Roger. Roger killed all his team-mates and he didnt get a chance for revenge either. I see WB a lot more benevolent than Roger, i doubt if that would be the case, WB would just make everyone his family. But it could be something on those lines without death necessarly.

There wouldn't be a reason for WB to be benevolent, if Crocodile is the one attacking him. He might have been too cocky and he paid the price dearly. It could be seen as WB defending himself, and his crew/family but unfortunately for Crocodile he just couldn't defeat the Strongest man alive at that time.
Some even believe that Croc was part of WB's crew, I find that to be highly unlikely. But if it's somewhat related to whatever Ivankov has on him, then it could make sense. But I really don't see Crocodile betraying WB in a similar manner as BB.Not that it's not his type, just that it would be repetitive.

---------- Post added at 11:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 PM ----------

maybe all crocodile had was some loser's beef with wb and it certainly wouldn't make sense to play with wb's history as a caring father after it has been so assuredly established.but as always with oda,the situation is not conclusive and the pictures in op's post have made me think along these lines.i guess i would sleep on it and see if it still holds it's charm in the morning.

I don't think both situation are the same. Like I said, if Crocodile lost to WB then it must have been a huge loss, with him possibly losing his arm and his crew, which pretty much shaped his personality. Not only he might have joined the Shichibukai because of that, but also his whole speech in Alabasta about not having nakamas (iirc) hints to him having lost faith in having them (which could be explained by him losing his crew). And let's not forget that his dream is to become PK, like Luffy. It was revealed as such when Miss Goldenweek used Yume no Nijiiro on him in the Baroque works mini-series. To me that proves that he still has dreams, but he was possibly disillusioned,and it's possible WB had a hand in it.Whereas with Luffy it might have opened his eyes about what truly matters, and that is to not try to find Pluto or rule a country, but to sail again.
It would be nice to have a definite answer, and I hope Oda is planning to explain those bits about Crocodile's past, hopefully when he gets reintroduced again.

Spoiler

Crocodile for next nakama!

 

[hokageji]

There wouldn't be a reason for WB to be benevolent, if Crocodile is the one attacking him. He might have been too cocky and he paid the price dearly. It could be seen as WB defending himself, and his crew/family but unfortunately for Crocodile he just couldn't defeat the Strongest man alive at that time.
Some even believe that Croc was part of WB's crew, I find that to be highly unlikely. But if it's somewhat related to whatever Ivankov has on him, then it could make sense. But I really don't see Crocodile betraying WB in a similar manner as BB.Not that it's not his type, just that it would be repetitive.

I dont think WB is of the type to go and destory a crew completely. He would go and offer a hand to make them his son after beating them. So it could have happened he destroyed Crocodile's dream or something.... We know that Crocodile's dream is to become the pirate king, so maybe something fell on its way and caused it.

 

[keeper1h]

Well, with an unmatched twist of fate the latest chapter got our attention on this very argument.
Now we know that the occurence of a strong pirate who claims to be Whitebeard's son was welcomed by World Government by offering that same man the Shichibukai position. After all not only he's not after Raftel, he's after other pirates... Now we know that WG simply don't care about the Newgate family.

Now, the whole "Demalo Black" feeling that pretty much anyone had by watching the latest Shichibukai... the real shock would be him actually being Whitebeard's son

But what if this man will be defeated by Crocodile? This would be reeeeally interesting.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

Well, with an unmatched twist of fate the latest chapter got our attention on this very argument.
Now we know that the occurence of a strong pirate who claims to be Whitebeard's son was welcomed by World Government by offering that same man the Shichibukai position. After all not only he's not after Raftel, he's after other pirates... Now we know that WG simply don't care about the Newgate family.

Now, the whole "Demalo Black" feeling that pretty much anyone had by watching the latest Shichibukai... the real shock would be him actually being Whitebeard's son

But what if this man will be defeated by Crocodile? This would be reeeeally interesting.

Are you a psychic by any chance?
What a weird coincidence, we were just discussing the possibility of Crocodile being WB's son, and Weeble shows up and claims that he is just that lol.
I don't think he(Weeble) is WB's own son, it would be really weird if WB abandoned his real family to get a "fake" one. So I really don't see him abandoning his real son,unless he didn't know about him in the first place. I already shared my thoughts about Crocodile, but who knows, if Weeble isn't WB's true son then it's still possible it's Crocodile I guess.

 

[keeper1h]

Are you a psychic by any chance?
What a weird coincidence, we were just discussing the possibility of Crocodile being WB's son, and Weeble shows up and claims that he is just that lol.
I don't think he(Weeble) is WB's own son, it would be really weird if WB abandoned his real family to get a "fake" one. So I really don't see him abandoning his real son,unless he didn't know about him in the first place. I already shared my thoughts about Crocodile, but who knows, if Weeble isn't WB's true son then it's still possible it's Crocodile I guess.

(I swear, when the earliest spoilers of chapter 802 came out I was like "Naah, this is fake and someone is trolling heavily" )
Completely agreeing with you on this: Whitebeard abandoning his own son it's so unlike him... If this really occured he was most likely unaware of having a child.

 

[jaymizzo]

Crocodile being WBs son would be significantly more interesting than Weeble taking that role. I like the idea that WB was from a desert land and unknowingly got a young woman pregnant... Or he could have known the woman was pregnant but then she presumably died with the child which then made WB seek out a surrogate family...

Crocodile could have set sail after knowing WB was his father, and instead of revealing said info to him, maybe he wanted to prove his strength to him etc but ended up losing (wanted to gain the respect of his father, the strongest man, by defeating him in combat). Which then made him hate WB because the guy couldn't recognise his own genes etc

I also appreciate the theory that Crocodile was formerely female. Maybe when he heard of WB and his sons, he/she felt that the only way to be accepted by WB was to be a guy....

Crocodile for Nakama would be amazing. Fits into the former enemy prediction.

 

[Fox666]

Now that you mention it, Crocodile being formerly a woman would fit the theory of him being Whitebeard son and why he wasn't recognized as such. But Oda wouldn't be so predictable...