Location : where Baam fought Buelsar Eliot
Mindset : KI for both.
Stipulations :
-This is Hoaqin before absorbing his siblings.
-Elaine as she was when she fought Baam and Endorsi in the name hunt station. She has her gears and items.
I don't remember his feats before his absorption but we know Kaiser beat Inieta so she can fight Arie(unless she abused the rule of her games). She injured a powered up Baam with the Thorn so she wins IMO.
Hoaqin for me...he was only defeated by the power of souls that his clone has given to Baam, otherwise he would defeated the Baam that fought Kaiser with only his thorn
He had a clean upper hand against Baam (with the Thorn) prior to the first rice pot training and it was said that Baam needs a mircale to reduce the gap with him in a single month.
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After rethinking about it, I won't give it to Kaiser so easily.
When Hoaqin was introduced, SIU said that he's stood in a different league compared to all Baam’s ennemies so far (excluding Urek), this implies that Varagarv or Endorsi (who was more or less arround Kaiser's level) were far weaker than him at the same point.
Sachi also admitted that even with Boro, Aka&his subordinates (Moontari and two others), they stood no chance against him.
As for his fight with Baam, while it's true that he fought him after absorbing his siblings, I doubt he used anything close to his full power (bar the last exchange with the souls power).
The proof is that despite gaining the very strong and terrifying power of the souls with its unbelieavable speed boost, Hoaqin's jumping speed was still easily comparable to Baam's and his sword craft made him struggle a bit, forcing Baam to use the blue oar before it's too late, prior to overwhelming him at close combat.
So, based on these facts, in terms of overall power, we've the following schema more or less
-tier 1 : Baam, Endorsi, Kaiser (name hunt station version of each)
-tier 2 : Hoaqin (prior to absorbing his siblings)
-tier 3 : Hoaqin (after absorbing his siblings) < Baam (Thorn + souls)
Now, what's problematic about Kaiser is that her power is very tricky, Fenryl's jaws are very powerful, so if Hoaqin underestimates her and doesn't use a fair amount of shinsu strenghtening since the beginning, there is a chance that he might lose an arm which would greatly diminish his power (not to mention constant blood loss) but even with that I bet he'll still overwhelm Kaiser (especially if he is pissed).
So, I'd say that Hoaqin would win more times than not regardless of whether he uses a strong enough shinsu strenghtening right of the bat or not.
Hoaqin. In every form he appeared in, he was always presented as a mortal threat to Baam. On the other hand, it was made abundantly clear that Kaiser never had a chance and that there was only a 'fight' to begin with because Baam was dithering about, When he actually started to try, he ended her without the slightest bit of issue.
Much like Baam, Hoaqin/White is given to us as someone who absolutely transcends ordinary (and extraordinary) Regulars. I see no reason to imagine Elaine somehow being an exception to that.
He did his best since the beginning, it's more of a part of his potentialy beingunlocked against Kaiser than him only trying at the end of their fight.
He did his best since the beginning, it's more of a part of his potentialy beingunlocked against Kaiser than him only trying at the end of their fight.
That's not how I remember it. He deliberately activated a powerup (I think it might have been related to the souls) and then tore through Elaine afterwards. And then there was that super-powered Floral Butterfly that he didn't bother using until the end.
Baam was holding back because he didn't want to hurt her more than necessary.
That's not how I remember it. He deliberately activated a powerup (I think it might have been related to the souls) and then tore through Elaine afterwards.
He "started" seeing the invisible needles perfectly in slow motion while he couldn't at first. Nothing was done on his own accord and he didn't use the souls against her either.
I am going to lean towards elaine on this one. Though I think this would be an extremely difficult battle for her. Hoaquin was powerful by d class regular standards at all stages of his transformation during the hell train battle. BUT hoaquin was out of his mind when he first appeared. He was incapable of thinking straight and hunger further complicated things. elaine in turn is a highly skilled fighter with a ton of tools. If hoaquin was of sound mind I'd give him the edge but its hard to imagine him winning against a fighter as skilled and refined as elaine while out of his damn mind. He'd get angry and frustrated immediately after the fight with elaine start.
Oh, that's a good question, hadn't thought of that. I suppose it depends on whether a spirit anima is the same as the souls hoaquin devours and if not, can he kill one to devour it's soul. Or, can hoaquin even devour souls from non sapient creatures.... Like animals and shineuh. My completely unfounded guesses would be that regardless of the reason hoaquin cannot devour shineuh/animal souls. It'd be interesting if his knowledge of spells can somehow seal the wolf though if that is a thing it'd be strange that he manages to pull it off in the middle of the fight.
Blue t helped bam see the needles and it unravel the reel for bam at the end, iirc it was giving him advice and little boost in the fight, so he used thorn+blue t to beat Elaine, the overall power wasn't going all out either just enough to overpower her, white would win more skilled and experienced, I don't think there is power gap or a big one, so just on fighting experience she is at a massive disadvantage, plus haoqin is a direct descendent so his powers should be first class in his family, he holds too many advantages only way he loses if there is a power gap, if kaiser was a princess then sure win given her powers and abilities.
After reading what AA said about Elaine lacking something compared to Baam and Hoaqin, I guess Hoaqin wins. Though feats-wise I think she could win, but she hasn't shown much mobility. Depends mostly on Hoaqin's range with the Arie sword hax.
Blue t helped bam see the needles and it unravel the reel for bam at the end, iirc it was giving him advice and little boost in the fight, so he used thorn+blue t to beat Elaine, the overall power wasn't going all out either just enough to overpower her, white would win more skilled and experienced, I don't think there is power gap or a big one, so just on fighting experience she is at a massive disadvantage, plus haoqin is a direct descendent so his powers should be first class in his family, he holds too many advantages only way he loses if there is a power gap, if kaiser was a princess then sure win given her powers and abilities.
Khun was most likely referting to Hoaqin after absorbing his siblings (at least 3 times more power) and also the souls in Baam's case which make him dramatically stronger.
So, Baam without the souls struggling against Kaiser doesn't contradict his reasonning.
Khun was most likely referting to Hoaqin after absorbing his siblings (at least 3 times more power) and also the souls in Baam's case which make him dramatically stronger.
So, Baam without the souls struggling against Kaiser doesn't contradict his reasonning.
I know, but Hoaqin had that "aura" of his right from the beginning. The souls only gave him a power boost. IIRC he was the strongest out of the five and Vicente was his match because he had the best defense.
I know, but Hoaqin had that "aura" of his right from the beginning. The souls only gave him a power boost. IIRC he was the strongest out of the five and Vicente was his match because he had the best defense.
After reading what AA said about Elaine lacking something compared to Baam and Hoaqin, I guess Hoaqin wins. Though feats-wise I think she could win, but she hasn't shown much mobility. Depends mostly on Hoaqin's range with the Arie sword hax.
No, that was instinct. He didn't see the weapons, he felt them.
Hoaqin has experience but Elaine spent thousand of years fighting there too.
Yes your right but he did use blue t power to untie the reel, he said it himself that he didn't want to use that power, the only other power he had access too is blue t, no revolution(sun), red t and we know didn't use the souls, it wasn't much but it got him out of the biggest jam in the fight, so it counts still.
White has much more experience than her at the highest level a high ranker in the top 100, not using a gimmick to win names against a bunch of regulars, after androssi figured out the switch skill, she was more than confident in beating her in a rematch, Elaine is strong and I like her, but she is just a top tier regular at most that not enough to beat white in a real fight even haoqin level, who is insanely op its bam that beat him, whom we know is capable of fighting above his level naturally plus thorn hax multiplier, unless the gap between them is sizeable which I doubt, since white on the same floor as her, means he has access to the same contracts and shinsu on the floor, he out ranks in skill and talent, most importantly hax as well.
Also Elaine has high ranker potential depending on how her powers develop at higher floors, like more wolves summons and a unique shape or shinsu attribute, regulars seems to unlock one at most atm, but it seems hard to break into top 200 without some serious op broken skill, and you gotta beat them in a fight, I doubt Elaine powers scales that highly imo.
We have to see how Kaiser fights outside the Name Hunt station to get a better perspective, because there she had a total advantage given the conditions of the place. We know that she is as talented as a DD from the LPB family, but we need to see this in something more real because she can take a totally different approach.
