Discussion Kaito reborn?

[HelixEpsilon]

Hi guys,

I've got a simple question concerning the 2nd Ant king who was rescued by Koruto after the queen dies.

He seems to have Kaito's memories, but why? Kaito wasn't eaten by the queen after he was killed by Pitou, he was turned into a training doll for the chimera soldiers.

So how did his personality end up in an Ant? Am i missing something?

 

[kkck]

I am guessing a pat of him was indeed eaten by the queen. As far as we know he would have been thought to be necessary nourishment for the queen so a part of him was kept for experimenting and another remained for training purposes. For all we know pitou made him work without all of his organs. The part of him that was eaten would have ended up as a quimera ant. I always wondered if the people reborn as quimera ants were actually the same as the original ones though. Does that make sense? We saw kaito dead immediately after he was defeated and the people supposedly reborn as quimera ants were also slaughtered before they were eaten. I think the queen effectively copied the memories of the people she ate rather than actually resulting in their rebirth into a new specie. Basically they are more like clones....

 

[HelixEpsilon]

I am guessing a pat of him was indeed eaten by the queen. As far as we know he would have been thought to be necessary nourishment for the queen so a part of him was kept for experimenting and another remained for training purposes. For all we know pitou made him work without all of his organs. The part of him that was eaten would have ended up as a quimera ant. I always wondered if the people reborn as quimera ants were actually the same as the original ones though. Does that make sense? We saw kaito dead immediately after he was defeated and the people supposedly reborn as quimera ants were also slaughtered before they were eaten. I think the queen effectively copied the memories of the people she ate rather than actually resulting in their rebirth into a new specie. Basically they are more like clones....

Mm but supposing they fed the queen kaito's brain and all... Still odd. Even if they are from the same womb, meruem has no memories, while new kaito seems pretty much to be an ant clone of kaito.

I've read some ants have two ways to reproduce: normal way with eggs concieved by the queen and sometimes other ants, or a sort of cloning.

i think there are two sorts of ants: the ones born from the queen (meruem and new kaito), or other ants (if i remember well, the royal guards were in some non descript ants' bellies), and the ones born from cocoons (like Palm). The word cocoon is also used for were commander level ants come from.

So, in a way, if it's a difference in method of conception, it makes sense that le king and the RGs have no recollection of their past lives at all, but practically all commanders have.

But then, why does new kaito member even his own name, and our friend Meru doesn't?

---------- Post added at 04:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:50 AM ----------

@kkck LOL at your "cookie" sig by the way :-D love it

 

[kkck]

The way I took it was that the royals and the king had no past lives, they were simply what they were. Maybe kite would have been born like a commander or captain ant if the queen had lived longer although we might never know that...

 

[MegamanX195]

Wait, when was it shown that? I must have missed it somehow...

 

[Host Samurai]

Mm but supposing they fed the queen kaito's brain and all... Still odd. Even if they are from the same womb, meruem has no memories, while new kaito seems pretty much to be an ant clone of kaito.

I've read some ants have two ways to reproduce: normal way with eggs concieved by the queen and sometimes other ants, or a sort of cloning.

i think there are two sorts of ants: the ones born from the queen (meruem and new kaito), or other ants (if i remember well, the royal guards were in some non descript ants' bellies), and the ones born from cocoons (like Palm). The word cocoon is also used for were commander level ants come from.

So, in a way, if it's a difference in method of conception, it makes sense that le king and the RGs have no recollection of their past lives at all, but practically all commanders have.

But then, why does new kaito member even his own name, and our friend Meru doesn't?

Well, while Meryem consists of many humans and Nen users in general. I think the main difference between him and Kaito. Is that in Meryem's case there was no ''dominant'' Nen user, who could have preserve it's ''own'' conscious. In Kaito's case it's the opposite of Meryem's, he had a ''dominant'' conscious due to him only consisting of one strong Nen user. I hope my explanation makes some sense, this way. That's why he is able to preserve at least some of his past memories.

Wait, when was it shown that? I must have missed it somehow...

It was shown right after the Ant Arc concluded. When Morau was talking on the phone with Koruto at the hospital. Here is the page, that you forgot.

 

[HelixEpsilon]

We'll get an official explanation soon enough i think; it's got to be raised when the kid ant becomes more central.

My own theory is more poetic than logical: the queen was fed Kaito, let's say his brain. His conscience and the strength of his nen were to strong to let themselves become part of the king, and 'lose themselves' in him. As a result, a tiny twin entirely inhabited by Kaito's nen separated himself from the king's foetus, striving to live..

:-D

 

[Uriel]

I'll go with Samurai theory. I like it, it's consistent.
Although we will never know. The only thing we can assure is that every ant was a human EXCEPT the King, the Queen and the Royal Guards. Maybe just because that Kaito born from the Queen and kept his personality.

 

[MegamanX195]

Wait, the Royal Guards didn't come from humans?

I thought it was said Yupi was a demon in his past life, or something to that extent.

 

[Host Samurai]

Wait, the Royal Guards didn't come from humans?

I thought it was said Yupi was a demon in his past life, or something to that extent.

Nope, they're a completly different entity. Yupi is literally a beast just like the others.

 

[kenosecon]

did you guys watch alien 3 or 4? that's were togashi took the idea of the memories... it's different than a clone.

other thing is we don't know if baby kaito was other king he could have been other kind of ant.

and lastly even if he was a king ant he probably didn't had yet any other people inside only kaito at that momment.

 

[frozen18ice]

1. kaito has an ability in his slot that allows him not to die ging mention this to gon
2. queen ate his brain according to pitou
3. he is the twin of the ant king
4. kaito is female now
5. his twin could be from the nen user that pokka and his brain was played with by pitou lost his memories the queen need high level of special human being the last two high level human she ate the most likely to be the by product is those two personality. one having not memories and the other having all in tack.
6. kaito would not eat live people he is kaito
7. we don't know how much different is she to the original ant queen in reproduction

 

[GingFuriksu]

1. kaito has an ability in his slot that allows him not to die ging mention this to gon

That's like... my main problem with the ant arc... well, election arc, w/e : p How the fuck does Kite have that ability but not someone like Netero... Seems like a HUGE plot device, and it doesn't feel like Togashi's usual writing. I'm just waiting for him to explain that.

 

[Phantron]

1. kaito has an ability in his slot that allows him not to die ging mention this to gon

That's like... my main problem with the ant arc... well, election arc, w/e : p How the fuck does Kite have that ability but not someone like Netero... Seems like a HUGE plot device, and it doesn't feel like Togashi's usual writing. I'm just waiting for him to explain that.

Togashi is not infallible. Kite's ability is indeed extremely lame as you'd think if you can learn an ability like 'don't die' that'd be the first thing anyone halfway serious about fighting would learn. Remember way back in GI, Shalunark was saying to pull your soul out into a game when the only criteria is 'use aura' is way too weak and therefore he deduced GI must not really be pulling people's soul into it. Well apparently just thinking 'I don't want to die' is enough to survive against any impossible odds and allow your soul to safely reincarnate after your body has been totally destroyed. Abilities are supposed to be balanced by the risk/criteria, and "I don't want to die" is hardly any restriction worth mentioning.

But if you accept he has an ability like that, since abilities are absolute, if he can't die and yet his body is gone, then he obviously has to reincarnate as somoene else. Since most Ants are basically human reincaranted anyway, that's not much of a stretch if you allow for the fact that such an ability like 'don't die' can exist in the first place.

 

[kkck]

Well, looking at things it does seem like ant kite got his memories back faster than what most ants did. If anything his recovery so to speak was remarkable as he seems to be completely aware of his past while most ants even after thinking about it a lot don't have a notion of who they were. Perhaps what ended up happening was a combination of the ant cloning whatever and his ability. It wasn't just one or the other considering that what we just saw is significantly different from other ants.

 

[GingFuriksu]

Togashi is not infallible. Kite's ability is indeed extremely lame as you'd think if you can learn an ability like 'don't die' that'd be the first thing anyone halfway serious about fighting would learn. Remember way back in GI, Shalunark was saying to pull your soul out into a game when the only criteria is 'use aura' is way too weak and therefore he deduced GI must not really be pulling people's soul into it. Well apparently just thinking 'I don't want to die' is enough to survive against any impossible odds and allow your soul to safely reincarnate after your body has been totally destroyed. Abilities are supposed to be balanced by the risk/criteria, and "I don't want to die" is hardly any restriction worth mentioning.

But if you accept he has an ability like that, since abilities are absolute, if he can't die and yet his body is gone, then he obviously has to reincarnate as somoene else. Since most Ants are basically human reincaranted anyway, that's not much of a stretch if you allow for the fact that such an ability like 'don't die' can exist in the first place.

So why doesn't someone like Netero have that ability ?

 

[frozen18ice]

each person have their strengths, and majority of the nen ability people have is base on their personality and traits. even a very strong guy like netero will have limitations.

i wonder if the death of the queen got something to do with it. them getting their memories back ant serve loyal to a queen her being dead disrupts the higherky of things.
kaito's brain not being played with could also be the reason why his memories did not get messed up.


netero did not die the same way as kaito

 

[Phantron]

So why doesn't someone like Netero have that ability ?

Because it's just a cop out for Kite to not die so it's not going to be repeated. Otherwise you end up with a world like FFX where dying is optional. I mean yeah if you look at it, if Kite can learn an ability to 'not die' why would people much stronger than him that clearly enjoy living not learn exactly the same thing?

 

[The Invertroid]

Is it just me, or is the title of this thread a major spoiler for any unsuspecting anime-only person who wanders onto the forum?

 

[kkck]

Well, this is primarily a manga discussion forum and at large most of the events being discussed were revealed in the manga well over a year ago so spoiler rules do not apply. No rules are being broken here so far. Not posting thread titles which were in some form a spoiler for someone would kinda hamper discussion too, we would end up with thread titles which don't clearly say what the thread is supposed to discuss.

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That said, I wonder if we will actually see kite with a boyfriend... or maybe new female kite goes the lesbian way? Or maybe he was gay to begin with and actually got a sorta acceptable deal now? Or maybe he was gay and remains gay so now he is a lesbian.... Meh, I guess even togashi is not brave enough to get into this in a shonen manga lol.