Discussion Laxus Dreyar Thread

[SirSamuel016]

Didn't those weird dudes with the giant frying pan absorb natsu's fire and shot it back at him, way back in the day break arc or whatever it's called.

Chapter 7 they absorbed his attack and he went right through it.

That frying pan amplifies the power of attack and then sends it back to the original attacker if memory serves correct, and Natsu just ate it up.

 

[MangerDan]

That frying pan amplifies the power of attack and then sends it back to the original attacker if memory serves correct, and Natsu just ate it up.

He went right through his own amplified flames, slayers can't eat their own element anyways.

 

[Kiki]

fyi Natsu can't eat his own fire. please read chapter Gray vs Silver, there is a flashback panel about Gray's memory that showed Natsu can't eat his own fire

 

[Vasgoko]

Did you seriously not know that Dragon Slayers can't be affected by their own elements?

I would like to give my own insight on this statement. We all know that Dragon Slayers can consume their own element if it is from another source other than themselves, which is why they typically wouldn't be affected. However, a dragon slayer cannot eat their own attacks (not elements). Which is why a direct reflect from Mystogan could indeed damage or injure Laxus....because Laxus can't eat it

Now, the leads me on to the next point. Does a dragon slayer's own attack injure themselves if it hits them? They can't eat it, so the answer is yes.

Ask yourselves these questions:

- Can Gajeel commit suicide if he wanted to by stabbing himself in the stomach with his Iron Dragon Blade/Sword?

- Can Future Rogue use his Shadow Dragon's Blade and kill the current Rogue Cheney?


Both examples are the same magic from the very own users right? So in theory, their own attacks would injure and damage themselves.

In other words, would current Rogue Cheney survive if Future Rogue used his Shadow Dragon Magic (No white dragon magic) and hit him at point blank shot behind the head?

Future Rogue = Current Rogue Cheney

No question about that.

He went right through his own amplified flames, slayers can't eat their own element anyways.

Slayers can eat their own element. They just can't eat their own attacks. Which is again, why, the whole point of this thread about Mystogan reflecting Laxus' lightning back at him would affect Laxus himself.

Yeah I read that chapter. First Natsu ate the fire, so it couldn't have been his own attack. Which makes sense because the Mercenary guy basically converted Natsu's Fire Dragon Slaying Magic into amplified regular fire magic and reflected it back.

The fire however, had no dragon slaying magic in it because he changed the properties when he launched it out of his own pan.

Before he launched the fire back at Natsu, he said something about "Anti-Flame Mage use".

From that statement alone, you can tell that the fire was different from what Natsu shot at him because Natsu's fire does not have Anti-Flame Mage properties.

The Mercenary guy also said "Flame Cooking", which leaves me to assume that he used a conversion technique and was not using the same fire that Natsu shot at him.

 

[MangerDan]

Natsu is never shown eating the flames second why wouldn't it be his flames? The mercernenaries thought he was an ordinary fire mage therfore they thought multiplying it's effects would damage him.
If your talking about this

it's Natsu after the roar not him eating the flames.

Therefore dragon slayers can't be affected by their own attacks being reflected back at them.
There's no need to eat the attack anyways even if they could. They have immunity to it Natsu wouldn't be able to cloak himself with his own flames and laxus wouldn't be able to do the same as well.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

If your talking about this it's Natsu after the roar not him eating the flames.

I don't think you're showing the right panel. I'm sure he's talking about this one.

Look at the top-middle box on the right side. It is debatable whether Natsu is eating his flames but it's also shown in the anime which is approved by Hiro Mashima.

 

[kkck]

Natsu didn't eat his own flames but he did seem to take control over them once they were reflected back. With that in mind odds are that in general a slayer type mage shouldn't be affected by a reflected attack. He can still take control over the element in question and use it to further amplify his attacks even if he can't eat it.

In general slayer type mages are not affected by the element they are supposed to command. It takes exceptional situations for this to not be the case (such as other slayer type mages or even differences in skill).

 

[Vasgoko]

Yeah, but then you can argue that for all elemental type mages, not just dragon slayers. Gray is immune to the cold and can easily break his own ice if it was reflected back. Jura can deflect his own incoming rock attack if it were to be shot back at him. Juvia can block her own water spells being reflected back towards her.

We're not talking about if a dragon slayer can block their own attack or take control of it when it is reflected back towards them. We are talking, does their own spells affect them? Meaning injure or damage them if they were hit by it.

So if their own magic came into contact with their own skin, would it inflict damage?


Going back to my two examples:


- If Gajeel stabs himself in his stomach with his Iron Dragon Blade/Sword, would it hurt him?

- If Future Rogue uses only his shadow dragon slaying magic on current Rogue Cheney, can current Rogue Cheney die?


In my opinion, both of these answers would be, yeah.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Natsu didn't eat his own flames but he did seem to take control over them once they were reflected back. With that in mind odds are that in general a slayer type mage shouldn't be affected by a reflected attack. He can still take control over the element in question and use it to further amplify his attacks even if he can't eat it.

I'm not sure if he took control of the flames but if you're trying to see he negated the attack, then I'll give it to you but even if the manga shows that he didn't eat the flames, the anime still did. I know that all you guys will say that this is MangaHelpers and not AnimeHelpers or something but as I said, the anime is from Hiro Mashima's approbation.

In general slayer type mages are not affected by the element they are supposed to command. It takes exceptional situations for this to not be the case (such as other slayer type mages or even differences in skill).

Not sure if you mean element or their own attack. As I said in an earlier post, I'm not going to debate on whether dragon slayers are affected by their own element or not. I know for a fact they are vulnerable to their own element. There is a discrepancy between element and own attack; hence, why I keep the words bolded. Now, if you actually meant that dragon slayers are not affected by their own attack, that is debatable even if you say its a fact. I've yet to seen any actual proof like a quote or something saying "We, dragon slayers, can withstand our own attacks at any magnitude." I don't believe Hiro Mashima ever gave us a clear cut answer. If he did, post the link so I can view it.

I even did research on this and the only website that answered this question was Fairy Tail Wikia which, once again, I don't believe its accurate. They cited a source (page number from the manga) and I read it, but it didn't prove anything. If you disagree, I'd recommend you'd re-read it. A few good points were made by Vasgoko (Post #64 or Post #68) that are yet to be answered. Until I receive answers regarding those questions, I am still in denial.

 

[kkck]

The part about slayer mages being affected by their own magic has already been conclusively and beyond doubt resolved in the manga. First of all, even if the mashima approved anime did show natsu eating the flame, it would still be at best secondary cannon next to the manga. Second of all, there is this. It literally says silver is not affected by his own ice even if he can't eat it.

Then there is the issue of slayer mages being affected by other elemental mages who use the same element as the slayer in question. In general the answer would clearly be "no", they are not generally affected by their own element. However there are a few and specific exceptions to that rule. Say god slayers and dragon slayers seem to be able to hurt each other. We saw that with wendy and shelia and laxus and orga. However there is also the natsu vs zancrow situation which perhaps suggest that there are specific conditions under which one can become entirely immune to the other. Perhaps a difference in skill or level of magic or a higher form of the element in question (say, dragon god flame vs god flame).

As far as the gajeel and rogue example, the answer would be no, they would not be able to hurt themselves with their element. Unless there is a trick around that by specifically allowing it can hurt the user. The gajeel situation is a tad murkier though because iron is a physical thing so the issue is distinctly different from the rogue situation.

 

[Vasgoko]

The part about slayer mages being affected by their own magic has already been conclusively and beyond doubt resolved in the manga. First of all, even if the mashima approved anime did show natsu eating the flame, it would still be at best secondary cannon next to the manga. Second of all, there is this. It literally says silver is not affected by his own ice even if he can't eat it.

Then there is the issue of slayer mages being affected by other elemental mages who use the same element as the slayer in question. In general the answer would clearly be "no", they are not generally affected by their own element. However there are a few and specific exceptions to that rule. Say god slayers and dragon slayers seem to be able to hurt each other. We saw that with wendy and shelia and laxus and orga. However there is also the natsu vs zancrow situation which perhaps suggest that there are specific conditions under which one can become entirely immune to the other. Perhaps a difference in skill or level of magic or a higher form of the element in question (say, dragon god flame vs god flame).

As far as the gajeel and rogue example, the answer would be no, they would not be able to hurt themselves with their element. Unless there is a trick around that by specifically allowing it can hurt the user. The gajeel situation is a tad murkier though because iron is a physical thing so the issue is distinctly different from the rogue situation.

Yeah, well, in regards to the Silver scan thing. The translation only said that Silver was not affected because it is ice. It doesn't say that he was affected because it is his own attack.

Think about it this way. According to that panel, Silver is saying that Ice does not affect him. But Zancrow's flame affected Natsu. Basically, Silver is different from the dragon slayers. He didn't get affected, but only because he is immune to all ice forms. He never said anything about his own attacks. However, as we saw with Zancrow vs. Natsu, Natsu is not immune to all fire forms.

Silver does not equal Natsu.

It is still possible that the dragon slayers can be affected by their own attacks. In no way did Silver or anybody say that "my attacks don't affect me". All they said was "Ice doesn't affect me". Which is true, but not for dragon slayers because as you can see, Natsu was injured by Zancrow


The only reason why dragon slayers are normally not affected by their element is because they can consume it. If the magic particles touch their skin, they will feel the pain.


Gajeel's iron is all magic. It doesn't matter if it works the same as a physical attack or object. The point is that Gajeel can still hurt himself with his own dragon slaying magic.

As for the Future Rogue thing, I still don't have a clear answer. In no way do I see current Rogue Cheney surviving against Future Rogue in a fight. They share the same type of dragon slaying magic, so according to your theories, current Rogue Cheney should not sustain any injury or damage against Future Rogue if Future Rogue is only using Shadow Dragon Slaying magic.

But I don't think that's the case. I think that current Rogue Cheney could suffer major injuries if not die; therefore, I still stick to my conclusion that dragon slayers can be affected by their own magic.

 

[kkck]

Yeah, well, in regards to the Silver scan thing. The translation only said that Silver was not affected because it is ice. It doesn't say that he was affected because it is his own attack.

Think about it this way. According to that panel, Silver is saying that Ice does not affect him. But Zancrow's flame affected Natsu. Basically, Silver is different from the dragon slayers. He didn't get affected, but only because he is immune to all ice forms. He never said anything about his own attacks. However, as we saw with Zancrow vs. Natsu, Natsu is not immune to all fire forms.

Silver does not equal Natsu.

It is still possible that the dragon slayers can be affected by their own attacks. In no way did Silver or anybody say that "my attacks don't affect me". All they said was "Ice doesn't affect me". Which is true, but not for dragon slayers because as you can see, Natsu was injured by Zancrow


The only reason why dragon slayers are normally not affected by their element is because they can consume it. If the magic particles touch their skin, they will feel the pain.


Gajeel's iron is all magic. It doesn't matter if it works the same as a physical attack or object. The point is that Gajeel can still hurt himself with his own dragon slaying magic.

As for the Future Rogue thing, I still don't have a clear answer. In no way do I see current Rogue Cheney surviving against Future Rogue in a fight. They share the same type of dragon slaying magic, so according to your theories, current Rogue Cheney should not sustain any injury or damage against Future Rogue if Future Rogue is only using Shadow Dragon Slaying magic.

But I don't think that's the case. I think that current Rogue Cheney could suffer major injuries if not die; therefore, I still stick to my conclusion that dragon slayers can be affected by their own magic.

That does not make a shred of sense. If he says "ice doesn't work on me" and we literally see the ice he had just created hit him them it is conclusive prove that his own attacks do not affect him. Now, it is entirely possible ice from a different type of slayer could affect him but that is an entirely a different topic. It's not even a matter of opinion, its an actual cold fact that his ice is ineffective against him. This is the other available translation.

Now, I won't rule out other ice affecting him (say, from an ice god or dragon slayer) but it is unquestionable fact that his own ice is ineffective against silver. Add to that natsu's similar situation with the reflected attack and we can pretty safely conclude slayer mages are immune to the elements they create. There is literally no evidence to the contrary. The immunity slayers have to the elements they create is by no means limited to them being able to consume it. It's literally silver's point.

With this logic a fight between rogues should result in neither being able to consume the magic of the other. And the most logical scenario would be that neither of their magics would be effective against the other unless there is some other unknown factor to consider.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Yeah, well, in regards to the Silver scan thing. The translation only said that Silver was not affected because it is ice. It doesn't say that he was affected because it is his own attack.

Think about it this way. According to that panel, Silver is saying that Ice does not affect him. But Zancrow's flame affected Natsu. Basically, Silver is different from the dragon slayers. He didn't get affected, but only because he is immune to all ice forms. He never said anything about his own attacks. However, as we saw with Zancrow vs. Natsu, Natsu is not immune to all fire forms.

Silver does not equal Natsu.

It is still possible that the dragon slayers can be affected by their own attacks. In no way did Silver or anybody say that "my attacks don't affect me". All they said was "Ice doesn't affect me". Which is true, but not for dragon slayers because as you can see, Natsu was injured by Zancrow


The only reason why dragon slayers are normally not affected by their element is because they can consume it. If the magic particles touch their skin, they will feel the pain.

I pretty much agree with this because if you logically think about this, on page 8, Silver said "Against slayer wizards you can't use the same type of magic on them."

However, on page 18-20, we still see Gray trying to "reflect" or channel Silver's magic into his own body to use it against Silver. Then we see Gray's thoughts about how slayers cannot eat their own attack. Therefore, if he knew that Silver couldn't eat his own attack, why did he try to attack Silver with it? It was because Gray believed that their own attack does affect them, it's just that in this case, Silver couldn't consume the magic. The attack proved to be useless in the end because we found out that Silver is strictly resistant to Ice and not his own attack.

Gajeel's iron is all magic. It doesn't matter if it works the same as a physical attack or object. The point is that Gajeel can still hurt himself with his own dragon slaying magic.

Now this can be debatable. As kkck said, it could just be the physical damage like how Totomaru controlled Natsu. The fire most likely didn't affect Natsu, although it could have, but it was more like Natsu punching himself in the face. Again, I need more answers and proof from Hiro Mashima to form my own conclusions about this part.

As for the Future Rogue thing, I still don't have a clear answer. In no way do I see current Rogue Cheney surviving against Future Rogue in a fight. They share the same type of dragon slaying magic, so according to your theories, current Rogue Cheney should not sustain any injury or damage against Future Rogue if Future Rogue is only using Shadow Dragon Slaying magic.

But I don't think that's the case. I think that current Rogue Cheney could suffer major injuries if not die; therefore, I still stick to my conclusion that dragon slayers can be affected by their own magic.

This is where I can kind of see your point. Although we don't know if Rogue Cheney could actually die against Future Rogue, we do know this.

If current Rogue Cheney has the same shadow dragon slaying magic as Future Rogue and the same type of dragon slaying magic does not affect the user, it wouldn't hurt to stall him instead of Natsu who could have died against him, right? Using logic once again, nobody knew Future Rogue had White Shadow Dragon Slaying Magic which might have been able to kill Rogue Cheney. However, because everybody knew he was Future Rogue, he ought to use Shadow Dragon Slaying Magic like Rogue Cheney.

Therefore, if Rogue Cheney is not affected by his own magic, a more strategic plan would be for him to stall against Future Rogue instead of the dragons so everyone can take care of the dragon situation while the Rogue's will have a stalemate until Future Rogue transforms into White Shadow Dragon Slaying Mode. This makes more sense as there is was no prior knowledge about each other's abilities during the Eclipse Arc.

In the end, the last two quotes are just hypothetical situations that cannot be proven or determined. However, the first quote is indeed a very plausible situation and has some validity in it.

FYI, I am not trying to argue against anybody. I just want to discuss this idea and get to the very essence behind all this.

 

[Vasgoko]

That does not make a shred of sense. If he says "ice doesn't work on me" and we literally see the ice he had just created hit him them it is conclusive prove that his own attacks do not affect him. Now, it is entirely possible ice from a different type of slayer could affect him but that is an entirely a different topic. It's not even a matter of opinion, its an actual cold fact that his ice is ineffective against him. This is the other available translation.

Now, I won't rule out other ice affecting him (say, from an ice god or dragon slayer) but it is unquestionable fact that his own ice is ineffective against silver. Add to that natsu's similar situation with the reflected attack and we can pretty safely conclude slayer mages are immune to the elements they create. There is literally no evidence to the contrary. The immunity slayers have to the elements they create is by no means limited to them being able to consume it. It's literally silver's point.

With this logic a fight between rogues should result in neither being able to consume the magic of the other. And the most logical scenario would be that neither of their magics would be effective against the other unless there is some other unknown factor to consider.

Maybe I didn't explain it clearly. My point is that, yes, the ice that Gray shot back at Silver was indeed Silver's ice and it did not affect Silver, but here is the question.

- Did the ice not affect Silver because it was actually just his own attack?

or

- Did the ice not affect Silver because what was being shot was ice? In other words, because it was ice, it did not affect Silver.

We don't know whether it was because it was actually Silver's own attack or whether it was because it was just ice.

The only thing we know is that Silver said "It's ice; it's still not gonna work on me."

So it could be because all ice magic does not affect him, including others' ice and his own ice. Because he can't be affected by ice period.




Idk about the Rogues and Gajeel thing. Im still not convinced that they will be affected. In fact, I think the contrary....

---------- Post added at 09:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 PM ----------

Now this can be debatable. As kkck said, it could just be the physical damage like how Totomaru controlled Natsu. The fire most likely didn't affect Natsu, although it could have, but it was more like Natsu punching himself in the face. Again, I need more answers and proof from Hiro Mashima to form my own conclusions about this part.

See, but the thing about Gajeel's magic is that his iron is magic. The composition of his metal and iron consists of pure magical particles.

Gajeel's iron is not the same iron as a frying pan found behind the guild hall's kitchen.

Any normal iron frying pan could be shattered by Natsu's punch. The reason why Natsu doesn't chop Gajeel's hand off is because Gajeel's iron is magic.

Metalicana didn't inject iron particles into Gajeel's body nor did he teach Gajeel how to swing an iron blade/sword. Metalicana just taught Gajeel Iron Dragon Slaying Magic, which is basically all magic as the name suggests.

 

[kkck]

Maybe I didn't explain it clearly. My point is that, yes, the ice that Gray shot back at Silver was indeed Silver's ice and it did not affect Silver, but here is the question.

- Did the ice not affect Silver because it was actually just his own attack?

or

- Did the ice not affect Silver because what was being shot was ice? In other words, because it was ice, it did not affect Silver.

We don't know whether it was because it was actually Silver's own attack or whether it was because it was just ice.

The only thing we know is that Silver said "It's ice; it's still not gonna work on me."

So it could be because all ice magic does not affect him, including others' ice and his own ice. Because he can't be affected by ice period.




Idk about the Rogues and Gajeel thing. Im still not convinced that they will be affected. In fact, I think the contrary....

Silver's literal words in both of the available translations is that it did not affect him because it was ice. The only difference is that he can't eat his own ice. It's pretty much the same situation as with natsu at the start of the manga. Overall the implication here is that slayer mages are at large immune to their own element. With very specific exceptions which so far seems to be the other slayer magics.

As for the gajeel and rogue scenarios, you have to take in consideration that the circumstances you are proposing do not make the situation in which they are getting attacked by their own magic in any form or context different from the natsu and silver scenarios you are proposing. With that in mind the outcome should be the same.

 

[Stormsfury]

Silver's literal words in both of the available translations is that it did not affect him because it was ice. The only difference is that he can't eat his own ice. It's pretty much the same situation as with natsu at the start of the manga. Overall the implication here is that slayer mages are at large immune to their own element. With very specific exceptions which so far seems to be the other slayer magics.

As for the gajeel and rogue scenarios, you have to take in consideration that the circumstances you are proposing do not make the situation in which they are getting attacked by their own magic in any form or context different from the natsu and silver scenarios you are proposing. With that in mind the outcome should be the same.

Exactly. Ice can never affect Silver because it's Ice. The only difference between Silver's Ice and other Ice is that Silver can't eat his Ice. If Mystogan were to reflect Laxus' lightning back at him Laxus wouldn't be able to consume it but it still wouldn't hurt him.

 

[Vasgoko]

Silver's literal words in both of the available translations is that it did not affect him because it was ice. The only difference is that he can't eat his own ice. It's pretty much the same situation as with natsu at the start of the manga. Overall the implication here is that slayer mages are at large immune to their own element. With very specific exceptions which so far seems to be the other slayer magics.

As for the gajeel and rogue scenarios, you have to take in consideration that the circumstances you are proposing do not make the situation in which they are getting attacked by their own magic in any form or context different from the natsu and silver scenarios you are proposing. With that in mind the outcome should be the same.

Well, your first two statements is basically what I was saying. The next two sentences, I'm ok with, as long as you said "implication" with it.

Implying things are ok, but to say it to an absolute degree is going a bit over the top. Basically, you are free to believe that Laxus would not get affected by his own lightning if it was shot back at him. But, there is still a small degree of uncertainty in that statement. Therefore, this topic is kinda subjected to opinion.


Technically, the other slayer mages should be no different; although I can't prove that so it is not certain. The only reason why I've seen other slayer mages have any effect because conveniently, there is always a reason that the dragon slayers can't eat the other slayers' elements.

E.g. Tastes bad, causes choking, is difficult to swallow

Totomaru's flames never touched Natsu; however, Zancrow's did only because Natsu couldnt eat his flames.

Exactly. Ice can never affect Silver because it's Ice. The only difference between Silver's Ice and other Ice is that Silver can't eat his Ice. If Mystogan were to reflect Laxus' lightning back at him Laxus wouldn't be able to consume it but it still wouldn't hurt him.

But see, exactly this is what I'm talking about. Silver is not affected simply because it is ice. But we never saw Laxus say "It's lightning. It's still not gonna have any effect on me."

Laxus could be immune to others' lightning, but his own..we don't know for sure.



But I guess this is kinda pointless because we obviously have different opinions and it is hard to prove anyways. Either way, this isn't really that important, so I don't mind just leaving it as is..

 

[kkck]

Well, your first two statements is basically what I was saying. The next two sentences, I'm ok with, as long as you said "implication" with it.

Implying things are ok, but to say it to an absolute degree is going a bit over the top. Basically, you are free to believe that Laxus would not get affected by his own lightning if it was shot back at him. But, there is still a small degree of uncertainty in that statement. Therefore, this topic is kinda subjected to opinion.


Technically, the other slayer mages should be no different; although I can't prove that so it is not certain. The only reason why I've seen other slayer mages have any effect because conveniently, there is always a reason that the dragon slayers can't eat the other slayers' elements.

E.g. Tastes bad, causes choking, is difficult to swallow

Totomaru's flames never touched Natsu; however, Zancrow's did only because Natsu couldnt eat his flames.






But see, exactly this is what I'm talking about. Silver is not affected simply because it is ice. But we never saw Laxus say "It's lightning. It's still not gonna have any effect on me."

Laxus could be immune to others' lightning, but his own..we don't know for sure.



But I guess this is kinda pointless because we obviously have different opinions and it is hard to prove anyways. Either way, this isn't really that important, so I don't mind just leaving it as is..

I think your logic is a little warped here. We have two distinct scenarios where slayer mages had their magic sent back at them and in both cases we see the same scenario. You are basically arguing that because we haven't seen that exact same scenario with other slayer mages there is some room for uncertainty here. However the 2 cases we have seen in this case are effectively conclusive. There is no evidence to suggest the situation would or could be different in other cases. Us not seeing every other slayer mage getting hit by their own magic is in no form or context evidence that what we have seen before could or would not apply.

Also, the zancrow situation likely goes beyond natsu merely not being able to eat his flames. Just not being able to eat an element is not enough to hurt an slayer with it, which is evidenced by silver and natsu not being hurt by their own attacks which they couldn't eat.

 

[Kiki]

Does Laxus lack of sense of direction?

 

[Dranzer]

Does Laxus lack of sense of direction?

Not that we have been shown or told.