Quarterfinal Laxus vs Zeref

Who wins this QF battle?

  • Laxus

    Votes: 34 39.1%
  • Zeref

    Votes: 53 60.9%

  • Total voters
    87
  • Poll closed .
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Pirate Queen

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I don't care about the current discussion about Zeref and Laxus, but i'll just quote these two lines.
Zeref with no immortality and no regeneration and no time stop, is FAR from being August level.
Nobody, i repeat, nobody, can beat August in this tournament. So no, people arguing about Laxus beating Zeref doesn't mean these people would vote Laxus against August. Because Laxus can NOT beat August, period. The same doesn't apply to Zeref, the debate is real and justified in this case.
No... no it isnt.

Even without immortality, Zeref was tanking dragon leveled attack. And he wasnt even serious. And that was without healing or immortality.

Then you have people ignoring those feats with the arguement being "if natsu can beat Zeref than Laxus can" even without immortality Zeref takes this.

Laxus has nothing NOTHING in his arsenal that takes down Zeref. But imaginary feats do go a long way in these forums so i shouldnt be surprised.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Laxus has attacks every bit as strong as Natsu's, including the unnamed attack that would've killed Azir without August saving him. Laxus has also shown speed feats far greater than Natsu or Zeref's. In terms of endurance, Lexus fought Wahl to a standstill while basically dead to rights, so his endurance was just as high if not higher. Also, Laxus can do something neither Zeref nor Natsu can: become intangible. His instantaneous ability to become electricity would cause him to evade or escape Zeref's binding spells. Also, some degree of Zeref's durability can be attributed to his healing factor which is restricted for this tournament. Meanwhile, no one is bringing up either his ability to create jutsu still barriers practically mid-combat or Fairy Law as potent weapons. I just think that Zeref is too linear a fighter to have the tools to beat Laxus. Zeref doesn't have particularly high mobility, I simply don't see him hitting Laxus as reliably as he hit Natsu. Additionally, we know Laxus has access to Dragon Force, but, and correct me if I'm wrong, he never used it during the Spriggan arc. So his upper limit of strength is some degree higher than shown. Unless Zeref can use death praying from Anksheram's curse at will, I honestly don't know how he'll successfully kill Laxus unless Lexus stands there and takes it.
AGAIN IMAGINARY FEATS!!! LAXUS HAS DRAGON FORCE NOW???

What the hell is this bs? Since when? For Fs sake lol.

Yes Laxus's magic is as potents as Natsu's but thr nature of Natsu's magic alows him to burn magic away which laxus cannot do
--- Double Post Merged, ---
Plot armor isn't exclusive to Natsu. That's not what I was arguing.
You said the only reason natsu beat zeref was because of plot armor, if you arguing something else you'll need to make more sense. Because im litterally repeating what you said
 

Takuan

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No... no it isnt.

Even without immortality, Zeref was tanking dragon leveled attack. And he wasnt even serious. And that was without healing or immortality.

Then you have people ignoring those feats with the arguement being "if natsu can beat Zeref than Laxus can" even without immortality Zeref takes this.

Laxus has nothing NOTHING in his arsenal that takes down Zeref. But imaginary feats do go a long way in these forums so i shouldnt be surprised.
Imaginary feats? Yeah you might be right, but it's no different than people arguing about Gildarts' strength last tournamenet, when he hadn't appeared yet. They were taking only what we had seen from him into consideration, which is fine. Turned out that Gildarts was still top tier, and not ONLY Tenrou Bluenote level.
The way i see it, i considered Laxus and Gildarts stronger than Natsu before Natsu started stomping FH Zeref. Then, it happened, which nobody in his right mind would have expected. Did anyone expect FH Zeref to be defeated by Natsu? And if yes, what was this opinion based from? Only "Natsu is the MC so he will win despite all logic".
That battle gave Natsu incredible feats, and made Zeref look bad. Overall this turned all power levels to complete nonsense. Now Zeref vs Laxus, if i have to say who wins, i'd think this way: if, before the Natsu vs Zeref fight, i thought Laxus was stronger than Natsu, then i'd say Laxus can replicate what Natsu did (if he gets the same amount of PoF / PiS than Natsu had).

It is my belief that Laxus is still superior to Natsu (even DF Natsu), or at the very least they are equal. Based on that, if we take off PoF, PiS, immortality, FH and time stop, i see Laxus being able to win against Zeref.
Though, as Natsu vs Zeref was bullshit in my eyes, it definitely wont be as easy as it was in the manga for Natsu. This is an extreme diff regardless of the victor.

This is only my opinion. My opinion is that power levels dont make sense anymore, and that Laxus has close to no feats due to his illness against Wahl. Therefore i'm forced to speculate, with imaginary feats as you say. Just like last year when i thought Gildarts would still be superior to Natsu.

However im not going to continuing debating, because i wont be voting anyway. So my opinion, i mean, who cares. Idc about this match up. I only quoted you because i disagreed with your point about August. Zeref, considering his mediocre feats and his restrictions, is not the ultimate unreachable monster anymore. Whereas August, in my eyes, is unreachable by anyone since PiS is restricted.
 

Pirate Queen

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Imaginary feats? Yeah you might be right, but it's no different than people arguing about Gildarts' strength last tournamenet, when he hadn't appeared yet. They were taking only what we had seen from him into consideration, which is fine. Turned out that Gildarts was still top tier, and not ONLY Tenrou Bluenote level.
The way i see it, i considered Laxus and Gildarts stronger than Natsu before Natsu started stomping FH Zeref. Then, it happened, which nobody in his right mind would have expected. Did anyone expect FH Zeref to be defeated by Natsu? And if yes, what was this opinion based from? Only "Natsu is the MC so he will win despite all logic".
That battle gave Natsu incredible feats, and made Zeref look bad. Overall this turned all power levels to complete nonsense. Now Zeref vs Laxus, if i have to say who wins, i'd think this way: if, before the Natsu vs Zeref fight, i thought Laxus was stronger than Natsu, then i'd say Laxus can replicate what Natsu did (if he gets the same amount of PoF / PiS than Natsu had).

It is my belief that Laxus is still superior to Natsu (even DF Natsu), or at the very least they are equal. Based on that, if we take off PoF, PiS, immortality, FH and time stop, i see Laxus being able to win against Zeref.
Though, as Natsu vs Zeref was bullshit in my eyes, it definitely wont be as easy as it was in the manga for Natsu. This is an extreme diff regardless of the victor.

This is only my opinion. My opinion is that power levels dont make sense anymore, and that Laxus has close to no feats due to his illness against Wahl. Therefore i'm forced to speculate, with imaginary feats as you say. Just like last year when i thought Gildarts would still be superior to Natsu.

However im not going to continuing debating, because i wont be voting anyway. So my opinion, i mean, who cares. Idc about this match up. I only quoted you because i disagreed with your point about August. Zeref, considering his mediocre feats and his restrictions, is not the ultimate unreachable monster anymore. Whereas August, in my eyes, is unreachable by anyone since PiS is restricted.
Enjoyed reading your counter agruement very much, but at the same time you know when it reaches Laxus vs August that it wont be 100 to 0 in favor of august. You are gunna have a few people voting for Laxus despite the obvious. Thats what im trying to get across. I mean just look at the other dude im debating with. He said Laxus has dragon force.

Readers imagine shit to get their point across. Its frustrating, but again... i can see how your arguements makes senze in your eyes.
 

Takuan

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Enjoyed reading your counter agruement very much, but at the same time you know when it reaches Laxus vs August that it wont be 100 to 0 in favor of august. You are gunna have a few people voting for Laxus despite the obvious. Thats what im trying to get across. I mean just look at the other dude im debating with. He said Laxus has dragon force.

Readers imagine shit to get their point across. Its frustrating, but again... i can see how your arguements makes senze in your eyes.
Well yeah, i guess some people will still vote Laxus. I mean, people thought Erza would beat August. In Laxus case he doesn't even have holder type magic, and has less feats than Erza. But i guess Laxus would at least get some votes.

Huh? I didnt read :P Laxus never showed Dragon Force. I guess i should have read more of the conversation before quoting huh. I apologize if i misunderstood the point you were trying to make.
 

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I'll stand corrected on DF argument, though it doesn't change my opinion. It was my interpretation that during the Fairy Tail tournament arc that Laxus used DF against Natsu and Gajeel, hence the increase in strength. It was my understanding that any time dragon slayer's skin changed, unless otherwise mentioned, it was because they were accessing dragon force.
 

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One thing I dislike about Zeref's fights in the tourney is that we can't tell for sure how strong his durability is because immortality played the most part in the manga, and Zeref hasn't been that impressive in fights where he wasn't restricted, so what about the restrictions he has now ? He's not immortal, so we can't really determine his durability. He doesn't have time stop, so his hax is still there but its more limited now.

In the manga, Base Zeref was having a run on his money with Base Natsu, and I think that gives a general idea of how strong Zeref is, the FH stuff is what I wouldn't count since that was utter BS. So my way of thinking (and I'm sure others think this way too) that Laxus(being fully healed now) is above Natsu with a fairly good gap, which is enough of a reason to believe Laxus can give Zeref a harder run if not even win here.

I personally voted Laxus, and I hope he wins. I feel we can draw a much clearer outcome with Laxus in the semis than with Zeref.
 

Pirate Queen

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People are mistaking immortality for invulnerability and that is a problem.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I'll stand corrected on DF argument, though it doesn't change my opinion. It was my interpretation that during the Fairy Tail tournament arc that Laxus used DF against Natsu and Gajeel, hence the increase in strength. It was my understanding that any time dragon slayer's skin changed, unless otherwise mentioned, it was because they were accessing dragon force.
Of course it wont change your opinion when you based it on inaccurate data

Note the sarcasm there, albiet jokingly lol

If you think laxus can tank fdkm/dragon force natsu then thats a different matter all together and an arguement we cant get into u less they face eachother, or it will never end.

Very glad i was able to set things straight about DF Laxus, but if he did have dragon force i would have put him above zeref as well.
 

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Ah. Finally. Zeref Dragneel. The most evil and strongest wizard who have ever lived. Oh except that, he is not. In reality, he is a confused, self-hating bishounen with a shit ton of teenage melodrama to deal with. And brother issues to resolve. To his credit, Zeref is the trigger who is quite possibly more responsible for the entire state of the world, than the rest of the cast combined. Tell me more, he says.

Zeref is an immortal. Not that he wants it. But the guy's immortality is a by-product of his curse. Ironically, this happens to be his greatest strength. His immortality offers protective regeneration, by healing his injuries. But not his brother issues. He is also a master inventor who created the eclipse gate, r-system, an entire guild composed of demons in Tartaros, and other etherious. His knowledge of magic dwarves that of anyone in the story. He is an incredible teacher to boot. Mavis, Hades, Walrod, August and Irene are all his students.

With all said and done, Zeref will fall. Why? Because this is a fighting tournament. And that is exactly why. Laxus is one of the most fearsome and toughest sob around. Zeref has little chance of besting him in direct combat. Especially considering his regeneration is banned. Oh, and brother issues.

Let's seize the opportunity to touch upon Laxus strength. Imo, dude has the most incredible stamina, physical and magical endurance around. Since the beginning of the story. Until now.

In fighting festival arc, despite casting town-level spells in thunder palace, he fought Mystogan. Then Natsu. And Erza. Then Natsu again. Then Natsu and Gajeel simultaneously. He casted fairy law, another spell at least on the level of town destruction, and still had sufficient fuel left in the tank to dominate an emotionally empowered Natsu. Until Gajeel intervene again, and Natsu took another level in his emotions, did Laxus finally got defeated. Funny thing is, both Natsu and Gajeel ended looking worse for wear in the aftermath, as compared to Laxus.

During the s-class exam on tenrou island, Laxus transferred all his magic power to Natsu. Not just his lightning magic. But literally his magic power. And he transferred every bit of it.



Let's put things into perspective here. Magic power is the source of power for all mages, and the physical embodiment of their spirit.



Magic power and physical abilities of a magician works in conjunction with one another. When someone gets drained of their magic power, they get affected physically to the point where they struggle even to stand.









Losing magic power for magicians seem to cripple them to the point where they they could barely function at a human competency level. Let alone someone who was running on empty magic power. Laxus let himself get struck by the full might of an Amaterasu attack from Hades, which was able to blow through the reinforced armour of the Grimoire Heart's airship, while he had zero magic power in his body.




Imagine a Shinobi with no chakra. Or a Shinigami without reiryoku. And still taking an attack head on from probably the strongest character in the series so far then. Laxus, though admittedly was out of commission briefly, still got up and strike Hades shortly afterwards, initiating the counterattack.



And characters from Jellal, Brandish and Dimaria were about as useful as a broom when they could not access their magic power while being incarcerated by magic sealing stones. Further comments from Erza, Gray and Wendy after Laxus got struck by Hades only helps to support the point it was a physically impossible feat.

In Alvarez, Laxus fought Wahl while under chronic sickness and pain, which kept getting worse as the battle wore on. He still has enough to formulate a plan, bypass Wahl's immunity to lightning, and murdered him. He then went on to fight and defeat Hades' historia.

When it boils down to it, Laxus is one of the fastest characters in the story. I don't want to sound too much like a Laxus wanker, but the guy has, on multiple occasions, react and move faster than his opponents can even perceive or register his movement. His velocity and agility can be further increased by transforming into lightning. When in his lightning body, not only is he travelling fast, his style of fighting is unpredictable which allows Laxus to often catch them by surprise.








Laxus' versatility have seen him employing his magic in various methods.

From momentarily blinding everyone in the vicinity


To summoning from the skies for an aerial attack

Or conjuring it from below


And paralyze his foes


He could use them for straight up melee, or at a distance from range.

It doesn't matter if Zeref knows more magic than Laxus, This is not a numbers competition. Zeref is not going to utilize several magics at any one time. And Laxus masterful control over his magic should prevail.

Zeref's immobilization spell did work on the present day Makarov. A Makarov who has lost all drive and belief in his strength, as well as his fighting spirit. The same Makarov who was willing to give up all hope against Ajeel, only for the cavalry to swoop in and save the day. Who, I wonder?

And the sneak attack on Larcade was hardly impressive. It took everyone completely offguard. A Larcade who looks up to Zeref as literally his father figure, and never in a million years would anticipate such treatment. A Larcade who was already wounded to begin with. Which means a Larcade who is neither in the right frame of mind, or body, to defend himself. That was not even a proper fight.

Laxus' strength, speed, attack potency, martial arts, actual combat training and experience, should overwhelm Zeref's wide spectrum of magical knowledge. This is the part where Zeref's hype and his brother issues gets squashed, and Doctor Dreyar comes in to diagnose him with 'being a lil' bitch illness' and prescribe him some 'man the f*ck up' pills, along with an ice cold can of whoopass. :cookiehand

Oh, and did I mention Zeref has brother issues?
 
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Doughboy

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Yeah I'm with Lexus lol y'all high as hell thinking Zeref would lose. I didn't know Laxus was an Etherious who had a life-bonding book that would help him regenerate missing pieces of his body when Zeref literally uses his palm to his pierce through his chest. I must be reading Tail Fairy
 

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1st Page - I agree that Laxus can probably tank that attack but the purpose of it was to show that Zeref is not bad in CQC. He can certainly match Laxus the same way he matched Natsu.

2nd Page - Well, injured or not, Larcade's durability is still pretty high. As for dodging it, that would work if he doesn't get caught in this.


3rd Page - That was an attack from Igneel-Powered Natsu which I put around Laxus' strongest spell if I'm being lenient.

5th Page - I don't see Laxus blitzing pass Zeref's immobilization attack. It's almost instantaneous. Here is the full scene.



Besides, there are many other attacks that I didn't show which could immobilize Laxus if this one doesn't work.
1st page since when has natsu been faster than laxus? laxus>>natsu in speed so he is easily dodge his attacks. lol he was getting dominated by ig natsu and he was able to tank those attacks because of his imortality in which he doesnt have this tournament in anime and manga we have seen people who have immortality/high regeneration get trash by a stronger opponent but the have to power to regenerate. ig natsu>zeref.

2nd page no doesnt work that way 1. he wasnt on guard/surprise attack (kind like brandish did to august) 2. him being injuried does play a factor and he was vulnerable give bisca that chance she would erase lacarde the same way zeref did .

3rd page i got it confused with the 4th page and i already expalin that on the first page.

5th page wasnt instantous because we clearly see makarov able to react . plus this is a tournament where every1 is on their guard. laxus>>>>makarov and easily is dodge that attack. now show me a feat that will put laxus down. also that attack that trap natsu isnt gonna work laxus>>>>>>base natsu without POF
 

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Laxus lost handedly to jellal in the last tounament with the saame feats and suddenly he's zeref tier lol these excuses are hilarious.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Yeah I'm with Lexus lol y'all high as hell thinking Zeref would lose. I didn't know Laxus was an Etherious who had a life-bonding book that would help him regenerate missing pieces of his body when Zeref literally uses his palm to his pierce through his chest. I must be reading Tail Fairy
Thank u. This is ridiculous.
 

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Laxus lost handedly to jellal in the last tounament with the saame feats and suddenly he's zeref tier lol these excuses are hilarious.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Thank u. This is ridiculous.
except most people werent here last year plus laxus a stronger feats plus ur boy zeref is restricted :cheez :cookiehand
 

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Yeah I'm with Lexus lol y'all high as hell thinking Zeref would lose. I didn't know Laxus was an Etherious who had a life-bonding book that would help him regenerate missing pieces of his body when Zeref literally uses his palm to his pierce through his chest. I must be reading Tail Fairy
To be fair, that was FH Zeref doing the palm piercing, FH is restricted here :>
 

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True but still has Ankhseram Black Magic, so rip Laxus regardless
 

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except most people werent here last year plus laxus a stronger feats plus ur boy zeref is restricted :cheez :cookiehand
How does laxus have stronger feats than he did before when he hasnt done anything new in the manga since the last tournament. :cheez educate yourself
 

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To be fair (again(,If Ankhseram's Black Magic can kill ppl instantly, then why did Natsu survive attacks from Zeref ? And Larcade didn't die when he got blasted by a full attack in a surprise attack ? I don't think just black flashy magic that, so far in the series worked only on fodders can kill Laxus that easily. If Larcade, in a state where he can barely stand, was able to take a direct blast through him and live, then I don't see why a healthy Laxus wouldn't take the hits. :>
 

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Zeref said back when they were in Alvarez that the god Ankhseram has been calm lately, which is why people haven't dying when they get near him. The magic itself as we now see is just a regular powerful black magic that its' main purpose is for killing. I completely agree Laxus can do to Zeref what Natsu did to him but simply Death Predation is an actual spell Zeref has that he can't use consciously, but if we're doing a no barred fight it'll get used to zap Laxus. Besides like Axiomus said I think Laxus would be exhausted before Zeref drops
 

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Zeref said back when they were in Alvarez that the god Ankhseram has been calm lately, which is why people haven't dying when they get near him. The magic itself as we now see is just a regular powerful black magic that its' main purpose is for killing. I completely agree Laxus can do to Zeref what Natsu did to him but simply Death Predation is an actual spell Zeref has that he can't use consciously, but if we're doing a no barred fight it'll get used to zap Laxus. Besides like Axiomus said I think Laxus would be exhausted before Zeref drops
I don't think that is a good excuse to why his magic is not killing everything, I think it goes more to Zeref being calmer after his awakening back in Tenrou.

And the thing about death waves, when Zeref let out his very first death wave in front of Evergreen and Elfman they were saved by Natsu, I believe Laxus has enough speed to dodge these kind of waves.

And the biggest AoE attack Zeref used so far was the Death Pillar, but I'll tell you something, Zeref took his sweet time to do the hand sign for it, I don't doubt Laxus can stop Zeref before he finishes it.

I think Zeref, without immortality, has durability that is borderline featless, so I don't see why Laxus would fall before he manages to drop Zeref. :>
 

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What do you mean durability isnt dependent on injury and exhaustion? Why isnt everyone oneshotted then? If Sting didnt need to exhaust or injure Larcade, why didnt he just to oneshot him with Rough Silk instead of pelting him with all those other attacks first?
The attack Zeref used would be enough to beat a normal Larcade, but only if he had Sting at his side nailing him with WSD attacks like Rough Silk.
Zeref didnt twoshot Larcade, Zeref and Sting both landed a ton of attacks that eventually took him down.
And even then Zeref only managed to do it through a surprise attack, no different from Brandish stabbing August or Neinhart nuking Jellal, in fact its FAR less impressive than both of those events since Larcade was already trashed.

Larcade had the ability to get to the guild? You mean when he literally crawled through the streets desperately trying to save his daddy? His PoF insanity was the only reason Larcade could fight through his injuries and use R.I.P, and even then the effort had him trembling

Zeref's best offensive feat is that gash he left on Natsu's face.
Zeref's offense is barely above Jacob's and his CQC is far below, his ranged attacks have been pretty lackluster too. If Zeref wins this fight he is doing it with pure durability, he is far too weak in every other aspect.
If durability depends so much on injury and exhaustion, explain how Laxus survived Hades' attack without any magic power inside his body? Endurance/stamina is heavily dependent on injury and exhaustion which is why Laxus couldn't continue. Not durability. This is just one of many examples I can give you.

It doesn't matter whether he crawled to the guild or not. He still had the energy to do it. And like I said, if he used R.I.P or an attack similar to it, then he most definitely isn't as exhausted as you're making him out to be.

Zeref has better offensive feats. He just didn't show it against Natsu because of PiS.
 

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If durability depends so much on injury and exhaustion, explain how Laxus survived Hades' attack without any magic power inside his body? Endurance/stamina is heavily dependent on injury and exhaustion which is why Laxus couldn't continue. Not durability. This is just one of many examples I can give you.

It doesn't matter whether he crawled to the guild or not. He still had the energy to do it. And like I said, if he used R.I.P or an attack similar to it, then he most definitely isn't as exhausted as you're making him out to be.

Zeref has better offensive feats. He just didn't show it against Natsu because of PiS.
What do you mean? Laxus was defeated by that attack from Hades, him not dying from it doesnt mean anything. Larcade didnt die from Zeref's attack either. So tell me, if injury/exhaustion dont matter, why isnt everyone oneshotted in every fight?

Of course it matters that he crawled to the guild, because it means he was too weak to walk. You arent seriously suggesting that defeating someone so incredibly weak that he cant even walk on his own two feet, is remotely comparable to defeating that same person at full strength, are you?
Using R.I.P doesnt mean he wasnt utterly trashed, all it means is that that his already beaten body still has a bit of MP in it.
Besides, like i said, Zeref's attack on Larcade was a surprise attack, less impressive than Brandish stabbing August, less impressive Neinhart nuking Jellal, I could give a ton of examples of surprise attacks accomplishing something like what Zeref did to Larcade. Angel stabbing Jura, Aria draining Makarov, Sting blasting a hole through Jiemma, Cobra tearing out Brain's guts and prob more i cant think of.
Zeref's feat against Larcade isnt a feat of strength, even if Larcade was at full power it'd still only be a Brandish tier feat.

If Zeref hasnt shown them then they arent feats.
 
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